Secrets of the VF-14m7 P*L*U*S finally revealed!

[dialNforNinja]

No sliding, they're on hinges. That's why the slot in the box launchers has extra room at the back, after the arms fold down they pivot opposite the shoulders' motion to move into place, and engage clamps on the inside to lock firmly into place. You can see the hinge in B&G mode. And, um, you have to take the arms off your VF-4 to use those boosters...

Edited September 18, 2012 by dialNforNinja

[sketchley]

Everyone keeps talking about missiles in the legs but aren't those technically missile tubes in the shoulders? The elongated "gem" design has been the classic way Kawamori has always designated where internal missile holdings were.

The bad boy's got missile launchers on both the tops AND bottoms of the engine nacelles (shoulders and lower legs, respectively, in battroid form):

Edited September 18, 2012 by sketchley

[sketchley]

As far as I understand, while transforming from fighter mode to gerwalk mode shoulder parts slide over to engine nacelles. It might be problematic while transforming, what if you just leave the shoulder parts over nacelles in fighter mode like VF-4?

Good observation. Great for space-use, but less than satisfactory for atmospheric use.

Anyhow, wanna point out that the VF-4's engine nacelle boosters completely replace the shoulder and arm assemblies. Gotta love that arm-less VF-4SL.

Edited September 18, 2012 by sketchley

[Chronocidal]

Heh.. After playing so many Legend of Zelda games, part of me wants to call them "rupee launchers."

Nice work on this, I always did wonder how this one was supposed to transform.

[Zinjo]

Good observation. Great for space-use, but less than satisfactory for atmospheric use.

Yes and no, the fighter is a large lift body so for dog fighting it might has issues, but for interception it is effective in an atmosphere and her firepower is formidable in and out of space.

As I understand it, she is a heavy fighter bomber and for some reason I recall reading it was favored by Zentradi fleets (but I don't recall where I saw that).

Edited September 18, 2012 by Zinjo

[dialNforNinja]

One of the game adaptations had that in its write up of the design's service history, possibly the steelfalcon one since those were the only ones I studied extensively. (By the time I discovered others I'd become entirely disenchanted with the Palladium sytem in favor of Mekton or even BESM.)

As for flying in atmo while armored... um, don't. This ain't the Tornado pack, with the leg boosters (not shwn here) there's plenty of thrust to operate G in gravity at the low speeds it allows, but high speed F, no.

Edited September 18, 2012 by dialNforNinja

[dialNforNinja]

RE leg lauchers, look at them and compare to the size of the intake. Now look at a view that shows the whole leg, and rember that the back 1/3 of the legs is hollow for the arms to transform into. Those missile racks can not exist. And yeah, though never shown firing and I assume them to have a sliding, flush cover for aerodynamics, it's a safe bet the shoulder hexagons are missile tubes. The ones on the central body are the hinges, however. I don't know why, but they're dead black in all the VF-14

Edited September 18, 2012 by dialNforNinja

[Mr March]

Yeah, the work looks amazing! I'd love to color your new VF-14 versions for my site. Check your PM.

Not that I'm complaining about what you've doen so far for the armored version (it looks cool), but wouldn't the VF-11C Thunderbolt APS-11 Protect Armor be a more era-appropriate template for a Full Armor VF-14?

[dialNforNinja]

family of designs except the M3 version that doesn't count for this project.

RE VF-11 heavy armor, it's a pretty close lift of that, actually, except for the hip parts that would jam the wings, and the shoulder lasers moved to the forearms. Big thrusters go on the backs of the legs, and a shield and cannon on the arms, so it can drop the turret drone from G to go B and be on parity with the VF-11FA except it trades six grenades for a cannon. As for being an armored gerwalk, this is General Galaxy, und ve

Edited September 18, 2012 by dialNforNinja

[dialNforNinja]

don't tink inde ze box here! Look at the VF-9,the YF-21, even this design with its radically different transformation from previous varible devices, they're just the kind of wild and crazy guys who'd try this. Even the VF-27 has some novel twists on its YF-24 base airframe.

Edited September 18, 2012 by dialNforNinja

[Mommar]

Even though I'm never an active participant because I'm neither knowledgeable about artistry or aviation I do enjoy watching these bits of emergent problem solving from the artist/engineers on this board.

[sketchley]

Yes and no, the fighter is a large lift body so for dog fighting it might has issues, but for interception it is effective in an atmosphere and her firepower is formidable in and out of space.

As I understand it, she is a heavy fighter bomber and for some reason I recall reading it was favored by Zentradi fleets (but I don't recall where I saw that).

Psst, I was referring to the Super Parts/Armour Packs there, not the VA-14 itself.

[dialNforNinja]

Battroid rear view with corrected wings:

and, until Mr. March does his magic for all of us...

Will try to go past Staples tomorrow for more pens so I can finish the armor and turret drone.

Edit because I erased a line I meant to keep on the line art

Edited September 19, 2012 by dialNforNinja

[sketchley]

RE leg lauchers, look at them and compare to the size of the intake. Now look at a view that shows the whole leg, and rember that the back 1/3 of the legs is hollow for the arms to transform into. Those missile racks can not exist. And yeah, though never shown firing and I assume them to have a sliding, flush cover for aerodynamics, it's a safe bet the shoulder hexagons are missile tubes. The ones on the central body are the hinges, however. I don't know why, but they're dead black in all the VF-14

I agree that there is anime magic going. That said, the size of the intake isn't directly proportional to the girth of the engine.

Take a low-bypass turbofan engine (see image). Note that as the high-pressure compressors increase the pressure of the air, the relative girth of the engine also decreases.

From such sources as the cutaway views of the VF-1 and the launch of the YF-19 in Macross + Eps 3, we also know that the fan and low-pressure compressor are in the upper leg, thereby further reducing the girth of the engine sections in the lower leg (high-pressure compressor and combustion chamber stages) as a good proportion of them are in the upper leg.

Lastly, Kawamori-san took the space restrictions into consideration when designing the legs of the Fz-109 et al. You can see the engine casing in the rear view in the following.

So, 1/3 forearm, 1/3 engine, 1/3 missile launcher, no?

Nevertheless, no matter which way you slice the pickle, there is plenty of surplus volume in the legs. How much is debatable, and I contend that although 8 missiles are a bit of a stretch of the imagination, 4 missiles could fit in.

Edited September 19, 2012 by sketchley

[Kelsain]

I wonder if those missile launchers in the legs were part of the Varutan redesign. From the M+ screenshot, that looks like where the landing gear would go. In M7, we never see an FZ-109 parked in fighter. Plus, their carriers rely more on the launch compartments.

Could it be that Gepelnitch & Gigile just thought landing gear were redundant? Hell, throw some more missiles in! Can never have too many of those!

Great work on the illustrations, btw.

(null)

[sketchley]

I wonder if those missile launchers in the legs were part of the Varutan redesign.

Refer to: http://nomansland.site.nfoservers.com/MRG-Active-Archive//forums/index.php?topic=2481.msg37207#msg37207

That's the official setting info for the VF-14 (finished design). The VA-14 (going to call it that, it's the initial, rough design) also has shoulder launchers.

Given that the VF-14 doesn't have shoulder missile launchers, it's most likely that those are the supplemental Varohta armaments. Internal engine nacelle missile launchers are basically standard on the main VFs, starting with the VF-5000 (which, in-universe, predates the VF-14 by about 10 years.)

[dialNforNinja]

No, the racks shown would make the legs 1/3 arm space, 2/3 missiles, and use fairy dust for propulsion. Unless the engines are supposed to be as slim as a gunpod and sit on the inside face of the leg... basically, those missiles end up in the same bin as the VF-11 internal bays... which is actually appropriate I suppose. I've long felt that landing gear is not strictly neccessary on a transforming biped, but then how could you have those cool aircraft carrier style launches?

[dialNforNinja]

For the colored version, the first, bigger diamond on either side of the nose should probably be red senor eyes, but both screen caps I made have them all black.

I do plan to draw the gunpod and (since they're in the text) missle bays, but the missiles will be on the inside opposite the guns, and landing gear like the M+ image and every other variable fighter on the front of the legs.

Edited September 19, 2012 by dialNforNinja

[VF-15 Banshee]

My own aesthetic preferences lean toward the M3 version of the Vampire, but you've done some amazing work here. I can't draw worth crap so I always like seeing other people's drawing in action.

[dialNforNinja]

Thanks! Though like I always say, no one is born knowing how to draw, or write, or sing - it's only a question of whether you keep sucking long enough to succeed. Doodle all the time, and notice the shapes and perspective of the things around you, keep at least one thing from every few days so you can look at your old crap and see how much crappier it was than what you do a month or a year later, so the gradual increase in skill is enough to see the result. The tough one is looking at people and seeing

and seeing their skeleton, especially on members of the opposite sex where you'd rather stop the "x-rays" a few layers further out

[dialNforNinja]

A! I finally camep up with a concise phrasing for my objections to the M3 VF-14!

If the VF-4 looks like it skinned a plane and is wearing it as a pelt, the M3 VF-14 is that plane. It's all skinny and freaky-like, especially the two chest flaps just hanging out there, and the exposed inner arm where it telescopes to pull the hand under out outer forarm in F.

[VF5SS]

https://twitter.com/VF5SS/status/248555690715648000

yeah but the M3 one can rollololololololol

[Mr March]

Alrighty, here's a colored version of the VF-14 Vampire M7 PLUS. I created both a VF-17 Nightmare-style Blue/Black version and also created a Grey/Black using the colors found on the "logo" spread done by dialNforNinja. Comment, complain, cower

[charger69]

Legs need a bit more detailing IMO...

[Mommar]

I think it looks perfect the way it is.

[sketchley]

Legs need a bit more detailing IMO...

Ah, but that's only in the "detail up" lineart. These are the more common low detail pieces used by the animators for fluid shots.

[dialNforNinja]

Definitely go with the midnight blue, I was just being lazy since I knew your version was on the way. Those are completely awesome, March! I hope you'll do one for F and the high angle G as well, but B alone is great.

[dialNforNinja]

For leg detail - the front and outside crease lines are also panel lines, unlike the FZ-109 the gunpod bay opens on a front hinge for less slipstream induced strain when opening to draw the gun flying forward in G. The inside of that line to the middle of the smooth curve from front to inside, is the main gear door, opening in the same direction, and most of the inner panel opens on a rear hinge to let the leg missile noses peek out to fire. There should be a firing port just below the knee on the outside,

but for the most part they are smooth, UNS style legs with not much more detail to see.

[dialNforNinja]

Thinking about it more, they should probably be a slightly darker color overall.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/51/vlcsnap2012090800h37m38.png/

The actual animation colors are too dark to make out details, but there's a fair bit of room between that and either of our interpretations.

Edited September 23, 2012 by dialNforNinja

[Mr March]

Coloring the VF-14 was a rush job on my part, so I just took colors from the old concept-art pictures I currently have on my website. But like most of my first time colorings I lacked proper color reference, so the colors need to be slightly readjusted to reproduce an actual anime-accurate appearance (wow, lots of a-words there, lol). Revisiting my screenshots I can see the face/hands/engines are not white but actually grey, the hull is a more greenish-blue type of black and the pink parts should be nearly bluish purple. The hands appear like my original "white" in some shots but they are "grey" in others. On Macross mecha - when the hands are colored differently from the main hull - they are almost always the same color as the engines. So I'm assuming shots like the one you posted showing the "grey" hands are the "correct" color.

The darkness is always a really tricky part, for obvious reasons when dealing with the color black. Also keep in mind the background for displaying my art is always white, which will make dark colors look brighter if placed upon a dark colored background. So the blacks need to be lighter when I build my pictures. In addition to the more accurate colors I have made the main hull darker, but only just SLIGHTLY. Here's the revised version.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Mr March

[Mommar]

You know I never realized that version of the 17 was ever animated. It's part of the Mac 7 package, what are the odds Yamato could/would make them (yeah right.)

[dialNforNinja]

Not too good, despite how simply it's drawn the hip connection has to have about a half dozen finicky little parts to actually work. (7 or 9 for my best approximation depending on whether you use ball joints or sturdier, single axis ones, not the two as drawn) I doubt it could be done under 1/55 without part swapping, and 1/48 to approach acceptably durable. They have to transform two different ways for gerwalk and battroid since you can't do interpenetration or morphing in the real world.

Edited September 23, 2012 by dialNforNinja

[charger69]

Mr. March new rendition is really awesome!

I wish Yamato finds a way to produce 1/60 Fz-109A, Fz-109F and VF-14m7+ with part sharing!

[dialNforNinja]

March - new colors are looking pretty good, though the shade of black seems to vary between shots - still like the purer blue. I also preferred the lighter grey accents but you can't really argue with the screen shots when they agree. I note that the little knobbler at the top of the forehead is supposed to be dark, though, like a mecha widow's peak. I'd love to see one of these with a big high collared cape, too! 8^D

Edited September 23, 2012 by dialNforNinja

[Mommar]

Not too good, despite how simply it's drawn the hip connection has to have about a half dozen finicky little parts to actually work. (7 or 9 for my best approximation depending on whether you use ball joints or sturdier, single axis ones, not the two as drawn) I doubt it could be done under 1/55 without part swapping, and 1/48 to approach acceptably durable. They have to transform two different ways for gerwalk and battroid since you can't do interpenetration or morphing in the real world.

I don't understand. What is it about the hips you're seeing that makes them so crazy?