WW2 Aircraft Question.

DestroidsRage · December 8, 2003

When I was around 8 or so, I was pretty into building WW2 aircraft models. I remember looking at one of the models at Longs Drugs Store.. It was a german aircraft. Painted in a camo' sand-brown scheme. Resembled the Me-110 Zerstorer, but it had a huge cannon sticking out the front of it. The cover picture had it flying over the burning wreck of one of its new victims, an allied tank. The entire cover was in a desert setting naturally.

Does anyone know what aircraft this is? I've looked online, but searching for "ww2 german anti-tank aircraft" brings up far too many results for it to be a useful search. I ask because Im really getting annoyed at myself for not knowing anything about this awesome aircraft!

Sorry this is another one of my Off Topic posts, but theres enough WW2 Aircraft nuts here that Im sure I'll get a reply

Thanks in advance!

-BEN-MAN-

Dies Irae · December 8, 2003

Possibly a refit Stuka?

Several variants including the infamous Ju87G-2 Stuka existed. The "Tank Buster" Stuka included a 37mm Anti-Tank cannon mated to the undercarriage.

Lynx7725 · December 8, 2003

This the bird?

A Henschel Hs129, probably a B2 subtype with a 75mm gun.

Dies Irae · December 8, 2003

-Oops-

Probably the HS219 refit. The Stuka was single engined.

Edited December 8, 2003 by Dies Irae

Lynx7725 · December 8, 2003

Possibly a refit Stuka?
Several variants including the infamous Ju87G-2 Stuka existed. The "Tank Buster" Stuka included a 37mm Anti-Tank cannon mated to the undercarriage.

Good to see you Dies.

Can't be a Stuka. ME110 Zerstorer = Twin Engine bird, and the Ju-87G-1 Stuka has not one but two 37mm cannons.. but only about 6 rounds each.

GreatMoose · December 8, 2003

Bet it's an HS129.

Phyrox · December 8, 2003

My bet is a Hs-129 as well, although it doesn't look much like a BF-110 at all.

F-ZeroOne · December 8, 2003

Theres a couple of other possible candidates - IIRC, the Germans experimented or used large-calibre cannons on the Me-210 and Junkers Ju-88, but along with the others I think I'd put my bets on a Henschel-Hs-129.

Hs-129 Trivia: the aircrafts cockpit was so narrow that some of the engine instruments had to mounted on the outside of the engine nacelles!

KingNor · December 8, 2003

the German dive bomber (witht he wheels locked in the permanently down position) coudl have a pair of big cannons slung underneath, from the side it might look like just one big cannon.

i forget what its called, it's the diver bomber with non retractable landing gear.

Vostok 7 · December 8, 2003

This the bird?
A Henschel Hs129, probably a B2 subtype with a 75mm gun.

Sounds like it.

Hs129 is a cool plane, but the IL-2 Sturmovik pwn3z all.

Vostok 7

bsu legato · December 8, 2003

Hs129 is a cool plane, but the IL-2 Sturmovik pwn3z all.

Now, how did I know that you'd say that?

Vostok 7 · December 8, 2003

the German dive bomber (witht he wheels locked in the permanently down position) coudl have a pair of big cannons slung underneath, from the side it might look like just one big cannon.
i forget what its called, it's the diver bomber with non retractable landing gear.

That's the Stuka you're thinking of... Can't remember which one was the tankbuster variant with the big cannons, but you're definitely thinking of the Stuka.

The Stuka though is a single engine, whereas the Bf110 Zerstorer was a twin engine. That's why I'm putting my bets on the Henschel.

Though I agree the HS129 doesn't look much like a Zerstorer, but whatever

Vostok 7

Vostok 7 · December 8, 2003

Now, how did I know that you'd say that?

:lol: hey, I'm a sucker for the Russian aircraft. Did you know the MiG-3 was one of the fastest aircraft of the early part of WWII? It set many speed records. And the La-7 was the first prop plane to down a Me-262.

Vostok 7

bsu legato · December 8, 2003

Did you know the MiG-3 was one of the fastest aircraft of the early part of WWII?

P-47M > Mig 3

Vostok 7 · December 8, 2003

P-47M > Mig 3

La-5FN/La-7 > P-47M

Vostok 7

bsu legato · December 8, 2003

*fires up Janes WW2 fighters*

That's it! It's on!

Commander McBride · December 8, 2003

There is a Stuka variant with two big cannon in/under the wings, replacing the other ordinance. It's in the XWWII Realism mod for BF1942, so I know it exists, as the XWWII team is obsessed with total accuracy. I've also seen a model of it.

bsu legato · December 8, 2003

There is a Stuka variant with two big cannon in/under the wings, replacing the other ordinance. It's in the XWWII Realism mod for BF1942, so I know it exists, as the XWWII team is obsessed with total accuracy. I've also seen a model of it.

Yeah, that was the Junkers Ju.87G-2 tank buster. I have the 1/48 Hasegawa kit sitting in my closet at home. I'm just miffed that nobody makes a "G" model interior kit.

Edited December 8, 2003 by bsu legato

F-ZeroOne · December 8, 2003

And the Supermarine Spiteful > everything mentioned so far with a propeller... :lol:

However... one should always be careful with this sort of thing; the P-47M was a much later model than the MiG-3, although the basic design dates from nearly the same period. The Spiteful only just qualifies as a wartime model - the first production version was delivered to RAF service in March 1945, but full service entry didn't start until November, too late for the war. And its generally considered that the P-47 could dive faster than any other aircraft around, simply because it was seven-odd tons of metal behind a monster radial engine.

Performance also varies with altitude, aircraft condition, type of powerplant...

Noyhauser · December 8, 2003

Spiteful/ Seafang was a beautiful plane... truly a beautiful way to finish the Spitfire line. One fighter I'd put up against it is the Do-335, which could be fastest prop fighter ever designed. It was Claude Dornier's masterpiece.. and an really smart design

Back on topic

It could be the JU-87 G2, it had two 37 mm Cannons under the wings in pontoons. The Me-210/410 also had a underslung cannon, I think it was a 37 as well.

The HS-129 normally did not carry the 75 MM cannon, most of the time it carried either bombs or a smaller 30 mm cannon. Less than 60 were probably producded carrying the 75 MM cannon. As a side note, the HS-129 almost didn't happen. The first version was SEVERLY underpowered and the small cockpit that gave pilots poor vision and headaches.

Vostok 7 · December 8, 2003

I'm still placing my bets on the fact it's an Hs-129. I've been a fan of the design for some time.

Here's a question that should put this all to rest... Did it have an external gunsite?

I don't think the tankbusting JU-87's or the Me-210/410s had external gunsites.

It could be an Me-210/410. I'm betting it's not the JU-87 since Stukas are single engine, fixed gear and have distinctive wing/cockpits and are nothing like the Bf110 like he described. The closest thing I can think of to the Bf-110 that was a tank destroyer was the Hs-129, though the Me-210/410 looks very similar to the Bf-110.

Hs-129B-3/Wa "Waffentraeger"

Bf-110G-2

Me-210CA-1 Zerstorer

Ju-87G-1 Stuka

Hs-129 model box (albiet a B-2 with the smaller cannon).

Vostok 7

Edited December 8, 2003 by Vostok 7

Phyrox · December 9, 2003

Seriously, why are we still discussing.

It can't be a Ju-87G because it looks nothing like a BF-110

It can't be a me-410 because its 50mm cannon was never used for tank busting (to my knowledge).

It can't be a Ju-88P because I don't think a kit has been made of that one.

It can't be a Bf-110 w/ 37mm because that would be way too obvious.

Only solution is a Hs-129 with 30mm or 75mm (I lean towards the 75mm because it is the only one big enough to stand out in one's memory).

Vostok 7 · December 9, 2003

Seriously, why are we still discussing.
It can't be a Ju-87G because it looks nothing like a BF-110

It can't be a me-410 because its 50mm cannon was never used for tank busting (to my knowledge).

It can't be a Ju-88P because I don't think a kit has been made of that one.

It can't be a Bf-110 w/ 37mm because that would be way too obvious.

Only solution is a Hs-129 with 30mm or 75mm (I lean towards the 75mm because it is the only one big enough to stand out in one's memory).

That's what I'm arguing.

I'm certain it's a Hs-129B-3/Wa.

I just provided picts of the different craft in question so that whenever Ben comes back, one of them may refresh his memory.

Vostok 7

Noyhauser · December 9, 2003

Well the Box art makes it possible it could be a HS-129, Buuutt

the HS-129 B-3 never was deployed to north africa, and it was September 1944 before they first got it. It could of been an Romanian HS129, but they never got a B-3 either, though they did operate in the south of Russia...so someone either made up some fictional scene... ooor its not the Henchel. (but I too think it could be the Henchel )

bsu legato · December 9, 2003

Could a desert scheme have been applied to an aircraft serving in Italy?

Noyhauser · December 9, 2003

Not the B-3 armed with the 75mm, all indications show that most of the 50 to 60 aircraft went to the east. and From what I can tell, there was only a short time when the HS 129 were in north africa/sardinia, (and they were armed with a MK-101, which was a puny gun), then they were all removed to go to the east for operation Zitadelle at Kursk. I can't find any mention of going back. But when it was there it had a tan with leopard spots on the top, sky blue on the bottom with a white identification stripe.

DestroidsRage · December 9, 2003

I'd agree with a lot of you! The thing that I remember seeing was either a Hs-129B-3/Wa "Waffentraeger" or something that looked incredibly like it. That big underslung 75 is quite a memorable thing to see on an airplane.

And yes, ironically, this image:

http://www2.gpmd.com/image/r/rvls4523.jpg

Is very similar to the image of the alleged B-3 that I saw, only it was in more of a desert scheme, and in a desert setting. It would be interesting to find that exact model box.

The model I remember looked quite like this one:

http://i5.ebayimg.com/01/i/01/01/78/eb_1.JPG

Only in a desert scheme, like this one, LOL:

http://image.inkfrog.com/pix/bobaww/revell...llhs129b2r2.JPG

But oh well, at least now I know the name of the awesome aircraft I've been thinking about for so many years. Thank you all very much! I knew I could count on all of you! Your awesome!

This aircraft is incredibly awesome I think. Did it have any backup weapons? Or was its main armament the big 75? And how many rounds of ammo did it carry? Im becomming a big fan of this aircraft

-BEN-MAN-

Vostok 7 · December 9, 2003

The B-3/Wa has the 75mm cannon and 2x 20mm MGs (MG-151/20)

The B-2 has:

2x13 mm (MG 131); 2x20 mm (MG 151/20) or

2x7.9 mm (MG-17); 2x20 mm (MG-151/20); 1x30 mm (MK 101): placed in gondola beneath the fuselage or

4x13 mm (MG 131) or

2x13 mm (MG 131); 2x20 mm (MG 151/20); Bomb racks beneath the fuselage for 4x50 kg bombs or a 250 kg bomb or

2x20 mm (MG 151/20); 1x37 mm (BK 3.7): placed in gondola beneath the fuselage.

And no doubt there were other variations.

Vostok 7

Edited December 9, 2003 by Vostok 7

DestroidsRage · December 9, 2003

Hey Vostok 7.. Which game did you get those screenies from? It looks like a mad fun game! I'd love to fly around blowing up Shermans in a Hs-129B-3 Be awesome!

It could be that my love for the Desert Color Scheme has influenced my memory.. As you said, theres not very much likelyhood that a Hs-129 with the big 75 would have operated with desert colors, as they didnt serve in africa.

Say.. Has anyone heard of the Kyushu J7W1 Shinden? I was perusing a model site trying to find the exact model box I remember, when I stumbled upon a Hasegawa model of it.

http://media.whydevelop.com/j/www.justplan...media/15804.jpg

It was interceptor aircraft that only got to the prototype stages. In all, only 3 were built total. Armament consisted of four Type 5 30 millimeter cannons with 265 pounds of bombs. Maximum speed was estimated to be 466 miles per hour. It flew for only 45 minutes, and a few problems were found, but it was still flyable.

Its a magnificent looking aircraft! I had never heard of it before! Man its sweet

And Vostok, thanks for those stats. Seems like the Hs-129B-3 was quite the Gunfighter

Whats the largest cannon ever carried by a propeller driven aircraft? Im curious.

-BEN-MAN-

Vostok 7 · December 9, 2003

I believe the 75mm was the largest. It was heavy enough that planes were known to stall firing it. It was mounted on a suspension system so that it would recoil...

The game is IL-2 Sturmovik, released a couple years back. Unfortunately, the Hs' aren't flyable It's a Russian theater themed WWII flight sim, so the predominant focus is on Russian aircraft of the vintage. It's still a great game as it includes alot of aircraft you don't see very often, including the BI-1 Rocket Interceptor, arguably the first of it's kind even predating the Komet by a year.

Vostok 7

Noyhauser · December 9, 2003

The 75 was the largest but I think they were thinking of putting a short barreled 88 on Ju88

The 75 on the HS was actually better designed than its Ju-88 counterpart as its ejected blast Gasess underneath the aircraft rather than sideways where they interferred with the airscrew blades (stalling the aircraft) the HS didn't have a stalling problem, it could fire 30 rounds per minute (thats insane) or four per pass.

Most B-3s did not carry the BK 75mm , they carried the BK 3.7mm.

DestroidsRage · December 9, 2003

Hmm, ok

Yah, it is amazing to think of a 75 mounted on an aircraft!! The standard armament for tanks in WWI were 57mm's!! Its pretty insane Even more insane that it could fire 30 rounds a minute!

Say, Vostok, or anyone else.. I love fighter sim's and stuff, but I dont care for the incredible realism in most popular flight simulators. I grew up playing TIE Fighter, and Secret Weapons Of The Luftwaffe (By Lucas Arts back in the da), so I'd kind of like a more simple fighter game. Is BF1942 good? Any reccomendations you could make would be awesome

-BEN-MAN-

Opus · December 9, 2003

Hmm, ok
Yah, it is amazing to think of a 75 mounted on an aircraft!! The standard armament for tanks in WWI were 57mm's!! Its pretty insane Even more insane that it could fire 30 rounds a minute!

Say, Vostok, or anyone else.. I love fighter sim's and stuff, but I dont care for the incredible realism in most popular flight simulators. I grew up playing TIE Fighter, and Secret Weapons Of The Luftwaffe (By Lucas Arts back in the da), so I'd kind of like a more simple fighter game. Is BF1942 good? Any reccomendations you could make would be awesome

-BEN-MAN-

Have you played Crimson Skies? It's a simple sim. I had fun with it. There's even a plane very similar to your Japanese interceptor.

Here's a B-25 with a 75mm gun. B))

DestroidsRage · December 9, 2003

I have! Crimson Skies was pretty sweet. I only played the Demo though. Maybe I should pick up the entire game?

And is BF1942 good?

-BEN-MAN-

Opus · December 9, 2003

I have! Crimson Skies was pretty sweet. I only played the Demo though. Maybe I should pick up the entire game?
And is BF1942 good?

-BEN-MAN-

You should get Crimson Skies. You can get it for like $5 at amazon.com. B)) I havn't played BF1942. I don't think my antique computer can handle it. <_<

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