Captain America: The Winter Soldier, in theaters April 4, 2014

[skullmilitia]

Is the Falcon the most impractical hero eva or is it just me?

1. Has to hold his hands straight out to fly.

2. Has no protective abilities, armor, or superhuman strength.

3. Uses pew pew machine guns.

4. Hovers stationary in the air to shoot said machine guns.

I guess he makes a good epic mount for cap when he needs to get from one place to another...

My big question is... why doesn't cap just wear the wings when he needs to get around. Paint them red white and blue and call it Captain Eagle flight mode?

If your complaining about "non-super Heros" being in the movie, well then it would have been a short and boring movie with

Only two people in it.

[Gakken85]

No, I'm complaining about the effectiveness of Falcon, or what role he would actually play. I found it a bit silly that he was dodging auto-machine gun fire from a jet.

The character was fine, in a buddy cop sort of way.

They really missed a chance for a nice callback when the winter soldier appeared on the bridge and Falcon was pew-pewing bad guys.

He could have called out to cap, "ON YOUR LEFT!"

So sad. haha

Edited April 17, 2014 by Gakken85

[Mr March]

That's such a weird reaction to me. At least as far as the writing goes for these "secondary" heroes (like Black Widow, Hawkeye, Bucky, etc) the Falcon was by far one of the - if not THE - best introduction and use of such a character in any of the Marvel films. From a technical criticism I suppose I can understand the nitpick of his abilities and technology, but this is no more/less silly than the absurdity found by examing the powers/abilities of other heroes/superheroes. I have to say the script writing and Anthony Mackie's great performance as the Falcon never once prompted me to be critical of the character. Worked for me

[SuperSenpai]

I enjoyed Falcon as a character, but my problem with superheroes whose abilities are largely tech (or special item) based is always the question of "Why can't someone else just use the suit/wings/armor/magic ring/etc?" Like with Iron Man -- why don't they just make a dozen copies of the Iron Man suit to be piloted by a special ops team? At least with characters like Batman, Hawkeye, or Black Widow, their uniqueness is partially based on their unusual level of skill at whatever they do. They pretty much admitted this in the film, when it was revealed that Falcon was part of a platoon of winged commandos. They should call up Tony Stark to hook up all of Falcon's old buddies too.

[renegadeleader1]

I enjoyed Falcon as a character, but my problem with superheroes whose abilities are largely tech (or special item) based is always the question of "Why can't someone else just use the suit/wings/armor/magic ring/etc?" Like with Iron Man -- why don't they just make a dozen copies of the Iron Man suit to be piloted by a special ops team? At least with characters like Batman, Hawkeye, or Black Widow, their uniqueness is partially based on their unusual level of skill at whatever they do. They pretty much admitted this in the film, when it was revealed that Falcon was part of a platoon of winged commandos. They should call up Tony Stark to hook up all of Falcon's old buddies too.

In the comics there are copies of the IM suit being used by a special forces team, they're called the Guardsmen/man. As for why they aren't in the films, up to this film Tony refused to share his technology behind it with anyone but Rhodie and a select few in Shield, which thanks to the forward thinking of Black Widow and Fury is...

all over the internet now when they dumped the entire Shield database online in their effort to expose Hydra.

[Gakken85]

Iron man is different. He created the technology and he's linked to it in various ways through the years. When he deals with other people using his technology it's usually a plot point.

My point is that Iron man can fly around, adapt, and engage dynamically while not worrying about being harmed.

Falcon is a fleshy pulp waiting to happen.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Gakken85

[Mr March]

I'm not so worried about suspension of disbelief harmed because the normal human heroes could be "easily" duplicated. I think we may forget the simple human motivation and economics of these human heroes that use technology.

Batman could only be duplicated by another billionaire strongly motivated to fight crime by the tragic death of his parents when he was a boy. The conceit often levied at Bruce Wayne is how much more good he could accomplish if he simply used his fortune to counter crime, rather than waging a one-man war on crime that - as good as he is - could never accomplish even a tiny fraction of what his money could for a far greater number of people. Nearly ever other billionaire would not see things Bruce Wayne's way and therefore would never become Batman.

Ironman, again, another "Genius, Billionaire, Playboy, Philanthropist" would be required to even invent and build a competing suit. Even if the suit technology became known to world militaries, an Ironman suit of his type would cost millions to develop, maintain, REPAIR, upgrade, redesign, etc. Not something that could ever be made in mass production without a sacrificing thousands of smaller budgets for other pieces of military materiel.

The Falcon, well while cost and motivation are somewhat mitigated out as a barrier to widespread adoption of his type of super hero tech, ability and budget are still major concerns. The closest analogy - modern day fighter pilots (despite the Falcon's own protest to the contrary) - are a rare breed. The majority of the population would never pass the physical barriers to entry, let alone the intense training necessary to qualify. Something like the wing suit the Falcon has could only be mastered to the degree of skill we see on screen by a handful of people. And wing suits would be ridiculously expensive technology, probably something only the biggest militaries in the world could justify the expense.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Mr March

[EXO]

Superhero movies will break down if you look at it under the microscope. When the filmmaker tries to explain too much that's when the movie suffers. I don't really want to know why Dr. Doom wears a mask, an metal suit and a cape. As long as he looks cool and the story works (Of course we saw the exact opposite in the F4 movies). Origins, which is basically the over analyzation of the character are probably the weakest part of superhero movies. This movie worked because we're beyond why Steve Rogers is Captain America and it's straight to the mission. Explaining the Falcon way to much would destroy what's really a great superhero movie. Skipping how they got the wings worked also, and the fact that they went after it shows that the few people they can trust really needed as much help as possible. Lastly, having him lose his wings proved that his usefulness in the sky did have its limitations. But he still managed to help after that.

[Kanedas Bike]

ALL movies will break down if you look at it under the microscope. When the filmmaker tries to explain too much that's when the movie suffers. I don't really want to know why Dr. Doom wears a mask, an metal suit and a cape. As long as he looks cool and the story works (Of course we saw the exact opposite in the F4 movies). Origins, which is basically the over analyzation of the character are probably the weakest part of superhero movies. This movie worked because we're beyond why Steve Rogers is Captain America and it's straight to the mission. Explaining the Falcon way to much would destroy what's really a great superhero movie. Skipping how they got the wings worked also, and the fact that they went after it shows that the few people they can trust really needed as much help as possible. Lastly, having him lose his wings proved that his usefulness in the sky did have its limitations. But he still managed to help after that.

fixed

Besides if there was one thing I had an issue with suspending my disbelief, it was at the end when Falcon had to jump to safety while running thru a crumbling building minus his wings.

-b.

[SuperSenpai]

You can definitely go down the rabbit hole with trying to point out implausible elements of any type of genre fiction. Suspension of disbelief is a given. That said, genre stories that do the best jobs are the ones that require suspension of disbelief with a given premise, but then maintain internal consistency within the established parameters. Otherwise you are just requiring the audience to suspend their disbelief at any arbitrary point in the story. That's just lazy writing.

My point with tech or item-based superheroes wasn't so much to do with suspension of disbelief, but rather that I personally find them to be less compelling than characters that possess some intrinsic quality that makes them special or unique. This is why, even though I'm a big comic and superhero fan, I was never really that into characters like Green Lantern or Iron Man. But given the right writer or story, I can even find those characters compelling (I loved the Iron Man movies).

[karmajay]

You can definitely go down the rabbit hole with trying to point out implausible elements of any type of genre fiction. Suspension of disbelief is a given. That said, genre stories that do the best jobs are the ones that require suspension of disbelief with a given premise, but then maintain internal consistency within the established parameters. Otherwise you are just requiring the audience to suspend their disbelief at any arbitrary point in the story. That's just lazy writing.

My point with tech or item-based superheroes wasn't so much to do with suspension of disbelief, but rather that I personally find them to be less compelling than characters that possess some intrinsic quality that makes them special or unique. This is why, even though I'm a big comic and superhero fan, I was never really that into characters like Green Lantern or Iron Man. But given the right writer or story, I can even find those characters compelling (I loved the Iron Man movies).

I wouldn't say it is exactly easy to fly using that tech. Why doesn't Cap fly his own jet? What good is Maria Hill? These things are better left to the "normals", etc. Falcon had years of experience with the tech wings that others can't gain anytime soon. Made perfect sense to have him use them.

[EXO]

fixed

Besides if there was one thing I had an issue with suspending my disbelief, it was at the end when Falcon had to jump to safety while running thru a crumbling building minus his wings.

-b.

Lol... true... But some movies are even better under the microscope... no superhero movies though...

Falcon had years of experience with the tech wings that others can't gain anytime soon. Made perfect sense to have him use them.

This.

[EXO]

[Duke Togo]

colbert.PNG

That's awesome

[Kanedas Bike]

HA! Love it!

-b.

[Mr March]

LOL! "Hail Hydra"; that's brilliant

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Watched it and loved the fight scenes in it. The only bad bit was when captain america was pinned down by gunfire and all he could do was use the shield to block fire. Should have grabbed a weapon of a dead guy and shot people with the gun while using the shield to block. not run forward with the sheild. It kind of reminds me of when the jedi have to fight those drones with the rapid fire blasters and all they do is deflect shots. Waste of time and energy. Just hide behind something and grab a blaster and shoot back FFS. lol Stop being a show off.

[anime52k8]

Watched it and loved the fight scenes in it. The only bad bit was when captain america was pinned down by gunfire and all he could do was use the shield to block fire. Should have grabbed a weapon of a dead guy and shot people with the gun while using the shield to block. not run forward with the sheild. It kind of reminds me of when the jedi have to fight those drones with the rapid fire blasters and all they do is deflect shots. Waste of time and energy. Just hide behind something and grab a blaster and shoot back FFS. lol Stop being a show off.

it's called code of honor. What bothers me is that when cap is blocking with the shield, not one of the mercs thought to just shoot him in the foot. It's like none of them have ever played a game of call of duty in their lives.

[BeyondTheGrave]

[taksraven]

Loved the little Itano Circus when Falcon had to dodge a barrage of missiles fired at him by one of the SHIELD/HYDRA jets. Very rare in an American film.

Also. Didn't they say in the film that Black Widow was born in 1984? And didn't they say that she used to work for the KGB that was shut down in 1991?? Eh?

Nice mention of Operation Paperclip as well, an interesting activity carried out by the Americans towards the end of the war.

Didn't think much of Redford as a villain. Should have pulled off his face towards the end to reveal that he was Red Skull.....

[miles316]

Loved the little Itano Circus when Falcon had to dodge a barrage of missiles fired at him by one of the SHIELD/HYDRA jets. Very rare in an American film.

Also. Didn't they say in the film that Black Widow was born in 1984? And didn't they say that she used to work for the KGB that was shut down in 1991?? Eh?

Nice mention of Operation Paperclip as well, an interesting activity carried out by the Americans towards the end of the war.

Didn't think much of Redford as a villain. Should have pulled off his face towards the end to reveal that he was Red Skull.....

Black Widow was probably still in training when the USSR broke up.

Edited April 24, 2014 by miles316

[SuperSenpai]

Loved the little Itano Circus when Falcon had to dodge a barrage of missiles fired at him by one of the SHIELD/HYDRA jets. Very rare in an American film.

Also. Didn't they say in the film that Black Widow was born in 1984? And didn't they say that she used to work for the KGB that was shut down in 1991?? Eh?

Nice mention of Operation Paperclip as well, an interesting activity carried out by the Americans towards the end of the war.

Didn't think much of Redford as a villain. Should have pulled off his face towards the end to reveal that he was Red Skull.....

Black Widow was born in 1984. The KGB broke up in 1991. So she was seven years old.

I don't see a problem here. It's Black Widow. You think she perfected all those deadly spy skillz as an adult?

[Kanedas Bike]

Re: Black Widow's age, recall in Avengers when Bruce Banner asked about the little girl that lured him to the remote cabin/hut in order for him to be asked to help SHIELD. Something along the lines of the girl starting at a young age and the Widow's response of "I did".

Still want to see this again in theaters but doesn't look like that will happen, so I'm very much looking forward to the Blu ray.

-b.

[Uxi]

I did finally to get to see this last night. Pretty good movie.

I KNEW Nick Fury wasn't going to be dead, though even when they started jumping him. I did enjoy that action sequence of the Hydra cops going after him

Did they say what happened to the

council woman who Black Widow was impersonating to get at Robert Redford?

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

it's called code of honor. What bothers me is that when cap is blocking with the shield, not one of the mercs thought to just shoot him in the foot. It's like none of them have ever played a game of call of duty in their lives.

Yeah but maybe they were going for head shots.

I guess he should have called the punisher to help him in that fight. It looked like he was struggling.

Edited April 24, 2014 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[renegadeleader1]

Yeah but maybe they were going for head shots.

I guess he should have called the punisher to help him in that fight. It looked like he was struggling.

Soldiers even former ones don't really go for head shots. Its pretty much hard wired to aim center mass.

[Valkyrie Hunter D]

Finally got to see this; it's definitely one of the better Marvel movies so far. I loved the oomph that was given to Cap's strikes in the fight scenes. But man, Gary Shandling looks like a mess.

[myk]

Finally got to see this; it's definitely one of the better Marvel movies so far. I loved the oomph that was given to Cap's strikes in the fight scenes. But man, Gary Shandling looks like a mess.

Does he play the same character that he did in Iron Man 2?

[areaseven]

Does he play the same character that he did in Iron Man 2?

"Ooh, sorry... funny how annoying a little prick can be, isn't it?"

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Soldiers even former ones don't really go for head shots. Its pretty much hard wired to aim center mass.

Maybe they played a lot of Gears of War or Halo then. There are these enemies in the game that take so many hit to kill that the only logical solution is to NOT shoot the body parts other than the head. hehe

think about it: he is not a ordinary man but a super soldier. They must have thought if they can just end it with a few to the face I won't waste bullets and have to reload my weapon all the time and can go home early to watch my daytime soap. "He has regenerating health. I don't want to spend all day shooting shooting shooting and then he gets to wait for a bit and come back with full health." (happens in all the COD games with no explanation whatsoever for those that are not gamers reading this.)

If you played halo on the hardest difficulty you pretty much have to deal with damage sponge enemies and very little ammo. Killing cap could be like killing master chief or killing a Brute.

Edited April 24, 2014 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Uxi]

Does he play the same character that he did in Iron Man 2?

yup. Puts a... spin on the character, though, that's for sure.

[areaseven]

[Kanedas Bike]

^^^^Ha ha ha ha ha!

-b.

[areaseven]

[Gakken85]

Rewatched this with my parents over the weekend for a trip home.

Have to say that A. it's better than GOG, and B. I still think Falcon is just an epic mount