Captain America: The Winter Soldier, in theaters April 4, 2014

[mikeszekely]

Well, not so much that... It's just the obvious call to make. A. He'd definitely help, and B. He'd be a big help. His computer skills alone...

Well, does Cap really know Stark would help? I mean, we the audience know, sure, but they just had the one movie together (well, two for the Widow). It's possible that Cap, after being told not to trust anyone, doesn't trust Stark enough to ask for his help... Especially when Stark's repulsor tech is being used on the Insight helicarriers.

[Kanedas Bike]

Re: Stark and where is was during The Winter Soldier, I'm almost/fairly/moderately sure that I saw

He was being targeted by the helicarriers/algorithm at Stark/Avengers tower at the end of the film.

Although that doesn't address if he had any armor or not.

-b.

[Duke Togo]

Well, does Cap really know Stark would help? I mean, we the audience know, sure, but they just had the one movie together (well, two for the Widow). It's possible that Cap, after being told not to trust anyone, doesn't trust Stark enough to ask for his help... Especially when Stark's repulsor tech is being used on the Insight helicarriers.

Yet he trusts Black Widow and the dude he passed while out for a run? Or even Fury, for that matter?

Hell, Stark is the only guy you can trust, because he's the one guy you know who isn't anyone's tool and who doesn't bow to authority.

[Kanedas Bike]

List of known Easter Eggs - WARNING, SPOILERS!!!!

http://www.hypable.com/2014/04/03/captain-america-winter-soldier-easter-eggs/

-b.

*found this while trying to find some supporting evidence of my comment above

[miles316]

Yet he trusts Black Widow and the dude he passed while out for a run? Or even Fury, for that matter?Hell, Stark is the only guy you can trust, because he's the one guy you know who isn't anyone's tool and who doesn't bow to authority.

Stark had open heart surgery at the end of the IM3 so would he be in any shape, to help and he still has to rebuild his machine shop suit assuming he did not have a comparable setup in New York Avenger tower.

[mikeszekely]

Yet he trusts Black Widow and the dude he passed while out for a run? Or even Fury, for that matter?

Hell, Stark is the only guy you can trust, because he's the one guy you know who isn't anyone's tool and who doesn't bow to authority.

Ah, but he didn't trust Black Widow. At least not at first. And I don't think he really trusted Fury, either, until he figured out that Hyrda was involved.

As for Falcon, well... I think the point of showing him running with and talking with Cap at the beginning, as well as at the VA support group meeting, was to present a sort of Reader's Digest version of them bonding. Yeah, it's pretty flimsy and contrived, but they're best buddies in the comics. I think it might have worked better if, instead of showing them meeting for the first time, they'd have used the running scene to establish that they have been friends.

And again, with Stark, yeah, we the audience get that he isn't anyone's tool and doesn't bow to authority. But from Cap's more limited POV, he might just be an arrogant hot head, which wouldn't necessarily inspire trust. Especially once he realized that Hydra is behind Insight, and Insight is using Stark's tech. How is Cap supposed to know, from that one time they hung out, if Insight is using Stark's tech because he thought he was working with Shield and was duped, or if Stark was in on it?

Honestly, of all three post-Avengers movies, Cap 2 is the one I have the least trouble accepting that the other Avengers wouldn't get involved. I mean, in Iron Man 3, terrorists freaking kidnapped the President! If that's not something you get Captain America on, I don't know what is...

[Mommar]

Ah, but he didn't trust Black Widow. At least not at first. And I don't think he really trusted Fury, either, until he figured out that Hyrda was involved.

As for Falcon, well... I think the point of showing him running with and talking with Cap at the beginning, as well as at the VA support group meeting, was to present a sort of Reader's Digest version of them bonding. Yeah, it's pretty flimsy and contrived, but they're best buddies in the comics. I think it might have worked better if, instead of showing them meeting for the first time, they'd have used the running scene to establish that they have been friends.

And again, with Stark, yeah, we the audience get that he isn't anyone's tool and doesn't bow to authority. But from Cap's more limited POV, he might just be an arrogant hot head, which wouldn't necessarily inspire trust. Especially once he realized that Hydra is behind Insight, and Insight is using Stark's tech. How is Cap supposed to know, from that one time they hung out, if Insight is using Stark's tech because he thought he was working with Shield and was duped, or if Stark was in on it?

Honestly, of all three post-Avengers movies, Cap 2 is the one I have the least trouble accepting that the other Avengers wouldn't get involved. I mean, in Iron Man 3, terrorists freaking kidnapped the President! If that's not something you get Captain America on, I don't know what is...

But in IM3 they kidnapped him in the Airplane. The only other Avenger who can fly is Thor, and he doesn't have free reign to just jump back to Earth whenever he feels like it (nor does he have to care about the US president.) Stark was the only Avenger with the means to reach him. Not to mention that other than Banner the other three members of the Avengers are all SHIELD operatives and could have been on missions where they couldn't have been called up/back easily. Not that I'm defending IM3, I really didn't like it, but that's an explanation.

[miles316]

Is any one turned off by having

HYDRA being the one pulling the strings in secret at SHIELD

[renegadeleader1]

Is any one turned off by having

HYDRA being the one pulling the strings in secret at SHIELD

Yes, and the subsequent fallout out from it. That's why after watching this film I'm not sure I really like it or not.

[Mommar]

Is any one turned off by having

HYDRA being the one pulling the strings in secret at SHIELD

Why does it turn you off?

[EXO]

I don't mind it at all. It's the other smaller deconstruction of the marvel universe that kinda worries me. Tony gets rid or the arch reactor from his chest, Fury with no eyepatch, Loki... what else?

[Duke Togo]

Oh, come on now, you know that eye patch will come back once Fury has things going again. The stage is totally set for Captain America 3: The Secret War.

[EXO]

What you can't have Secret Wars without Spider-Man!

Totally basing that on the commercials as a little kid... never read the books...

[miles316]

Why does it turn you off?

No It does not I read a Review on SYFY BLaster sight complaining that it made it BLack and white not gray.

Edited April 9, 2014 by miles316

[Duke Togo]

What you can't have Secret Wars without Spider-Man!

Totally basing that on the commercials as a little kid... never read the books...

No no, not Secret Wars; Secret War. Completely different storyline that ran its course abouty a decade ago I think. Essentially, Fury goes underground to bring the fight to the bad guys.

[Dangard Ace]

Oh my they spoiled Agents of SHIELD!

When Sitwell started talking about Arnim Zola, who by the way uploaded his brain in a computer in the 1970's, that he can predict the future through patterns and past data it became clear that Zola is the Clairvoyant!

Centipede is just another branch of Hydra. Which means Raina and Ian Quinn were just handed to their own side as SHIELD was infiltrated from the beginning by Hydra.

Oh Retcon the Winter Soldier killed Howard Stark. Which could mean Stane was working for Hydra all along.

Senator Stern from Iron Man 2 is a Hydra agent. Stark kept his tech from Hydra then but by giving SHIELD his repulsor tech for the Hellicarriers he just gave them that technlogy.

Tony Stark, Banner and I think I heard Strange were targets once the Hellicarriers went online from what Sitwell said. Hydra's plan was to rule by precision strike orbital bombardment. A less ambitious but more effective plan than the excessive collateral damage plan of Cobra Commander in Retaliation.

Oh Nick Fury's car was supposed to fly like Lola but it got damaged.

In relation further to AoS that moment that Coulson and Sitwell met and Sitwell told him Fury went off the grid? Hydra/Clairvoyant/Zola likely ordered him and those Coulson called to lie to him that Nick Fury died. So that Zola can find out what brought back Coulson and what was hidden from him that even SHIELD/Hydra did not know.

Which mean Bob was not Agent of Hydra but likely Bob... Agent of SWORD.

This means Zola/Clairvoyant wants to know about the alien visitations that is even classified from SHIELD. The Skrull equation and that dead Kree.

Fury didn't die but was given a drug that slows down the heart rate. For a moment I thought the reason Dr. Straiten went off the grid was to give Fury GH-325. But likely Sraiten went under as Fury was reported dead.

SHIELD was officially disbanded with Sharon Carter joining the CIA and Maria Hill getting employment at Stark's. I don't know how AoS will go from there as they should be out of a job... But Fury is on the trail of Hydra going to Europe. Unofficially it could mean SHIELD went under.

Mid credits showed Hydra having Loki's staff (Infinity Stone?) and used it to give powers to the Twins Pietro and Wanda. Other test subjects died.

Post credit which I only stayed as everybody left showed Bucky at the Smithsonian rediscovering himself at the Captain America and Howling Commando's exhibit.

No spoilers for Age of Ultron other than mid-credits but it does make you wonder if Zola was not destroyed as he was supposed to be and would infect Ultron. As Hydra is a player in Avengers 2.

Oh Stan Lee was a security guard at the Smithsonian.

AIM looks like does not have a connection to Hydra only Hydra co-opted their Extremis technology. If Killian got away he would have been a target too.

Who's Bob?

[TangledThorns]

I read the film's directors had Chris Evans learn Krav Maga for the role's fighting scenes. It's a good self-defense art to learn, the elevator scene reminded me of when I earned my Practitioner 2 patch. That kicked my butt!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/style-blog/wp/2014/04/04/captain-america-2-directors-talk-filming-in-d-c-casting-robert-redford-and-the-movies-very-timely-politics/

[Twoducks]

Guys, Iron-man is not in the movie solving everything because

he was mingling at Pierces’s nice’s birthday party.

For Stark to “mingle”, as Pierce demanded, he would have to have communication shut off or else he would just call Pepper or Rhodey or watch ESPN to kill time.

So everything makes sense.

How familiar are you with the comics?

The Winter Soldier comic is the one story I have not read. Hear it is pretty good but I for once wanted to see a comic movie before the story they take elements from (plus, until these movies I was not a Cap fan lol). I'll check it out soon.

[Mr March]

Well said and exactly my feelings! Right now I feel the producers of Superman Vs. Batman are just looking around thinking "WTF just happened?"

Yes, there's been a lot of talk about how the writers Joe and Anthony Russo did for the Captain America character what DC's film team SHOULD have been doing for Superman. I think DC have a lot to fear from the next Captain America film if the Marvel folks continue on a path like this. Then again, Man of Steel did big dollars, so repetitive super-fights sell just as much as good writing (mores the pity) so I guess it only matters to the people that care about that kind of thing

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

I don't mind it at all. It's the other smaller deconstruction of the marvel universe that kinda worries me. Tony gets rid or the arch reactor from his chest, Fury with no eyepatch, Loki... what else?

Fury has no white hair on his sides.

[SuperSenpai]

Yes, there's been a lot of talk about how the writers Joe and Anthony Russo did for the Captain America character what DC's film team SHOULD have been doing for Superman. I think DC have a lot to fear from the next Captain America film if the Marvel folks continue on a path like this. Then again, Man of Steel did big dollars, so repetitive super-fights sell just as much as good writing (mores the pity) so I guess it only matters to the people that care about that kind of thing

Agreed. Captain America is Marvel's answer to Superman -- not in the superficial characteristics like origin, power set, etc., but more in terms of the ideological, "moral compass" sense. "Truth, justice, and the American way" is Superman's line, but it could just as easily have been Cap's. For years the argument has been that Superman is too much of a boy scout and doesn't appeal to today's more jaded audience, but I think the Marvel movies show that this just isn't the case. Captain America is every bit the boy scout that Superman is. And if you want to make a darker, sophisticated, more modern tale, you don't need to make him darker to appeal to the more cynical fans. Darker supporting characters and circumstances yes, but you leave his character alone to show why he's the moral compass. Marvel is basically doing a better Superman than DC!

Ah, but he didn't trust Black Widow. At least not at first. And I don't think he really trusted Fury, either, until he figured out that Hyrda was involved.

As for Falcon, well... I think the point of showing him running with and talking with Cap at the beginning, as well as at the VA support group meeting, was to present a sort of Reader's Digest version of them bonding. Yeah, it's pretty flimsy and contrived, but they're best buddies in the comics. I think it might have worked better if, instead of showing them meeting for the first time, they'd have used the running scene to establish that they have been friends.

And again, with Stark, yeah, we the audience get that he isn't anyone's tool and doesn't bow to authority. But from Cap's more limited POV, he might just be an arrogant hot head, which wouldn't necessarily inspire trust. Especially once he realized that Hydra is behind Insight, and Insight is using Stark's tech. How is Cap supposed to know, from that one time they hung out, if Insight is using Stark's tech because he thought he was working with Shield and was duped, or if Stark was in on it?

Honestly, of all three post-Avengers movies, Cap 2 is the one I have the least trouble accepting that the other Avengers wouldn't get involved. I mean, in Iron Man 3, terrorists freaking kidnapped the President! If that's not something you get Captain America on, I don't know what is...

I thought the reason why it made sense for Cap to trust him was because he was an outsider. Since it's been established that SHIELD has been corrupted, he can't go to anyone within the organization for help, so it makes sense for him to go with an outsider. Not that it would have been beyond the realm of possibilities for Falcon to be a mole (like Agent 13), but I think his outsider status plus the fact that he was just another solider on the battlefield (and not a covert ops agent like Widow who lies for a living) lent a greater sense of authenticity to him.

[EXO]

Fury has no white hair on his sides.

That was never there in the first place...

Cap brought the Falcon in, not the other way around. Plus, he didn't ask the Falcon to join the fight, he just needed a place to hide out, somewhere SHIELD doesn't have a connection too. But then again SHIELD can pretty much find you anywhere you go, especially with that DNA tracking technology.

[aerocombatpilot]

Saw it about an hour ago..not bad, but not quite the "political thriller" some reviewers claim. Things I liked about the film: 1) Black Widow-Naturally 2) Her C7 Corvette Stingray- should have been featured more! 3) Nick Fury- had me guessing for a while!

4) The Falcon- pretty cool suit but he should have sleeves. 5) Robert Redford- Wish his character had turned out different .

6) S.H.I.E.L.D.- the building, Heli-carriers, jets, all looked cool . Now things I didn't like: 1)Captain America- Through out the film I wanted to say: "F- YOU Cap, if you don't like it then just leave!" 2) The Winter Soldier- really just felt like they just "threw" him in there! 3) Hydra- yeah, whatever! 4) The final combat scene- where everything goes by so fast you can't keep track of the action! All in all, way better that the 1st but not the best Marvel Film.

Edited April 16, 2014 by aerocombatpilot

[Black Valkyrie]

Saw it a few days ago, very good sequel (B+) but in some way sad. The movie was worth it, just for the Winter Soldier alone but I was surprised that Hydra was involved all the way.

[Arthurius]

Just saw it, and it my favorite Marvel movie. Wow, such awesomeness.

[renegadeleader1]

I wonder if anyone here trully understands the implications of what Black Widow did in the end?

[anime52k8]

I feel like they're trying to lead up to civil war.

[Mommar]

I feel like they're trying to lead up to civil war.

Given the number of movies a certain cast member has been contracted for I'd just assume something of that nature was going to happen.

[captain america]

Is any one turned off by having

HYDRA being the one pulling the strings in secret at SHIELD

I thought that it was actually a very clever allegory on what's happening in real life.

[miles316]

I thought that it was actually a very clever allegory on what's happening in real life.

Syfy Blaster have articles talking about winter Soldier saying it was disingenuous having

HYDRA

be the big bad.

I was just curious how everyone here thought about it.

[Kanedas Bike]

Nope, no issues with the "big bad" in The Winter Soldier here.

Marvel has done a really good job with incorporating traditional villains and villainous organizations (with The Mandarin from IM3 as an arguable exception). And I think how they've handled this particular org has been outstanding.

-b.

[Mommar]

What's wrong with the "villain" in Cap? It worked perfect IMO. Appropriate too.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Mommar

[Tking22]

Cap 2 was good, I'm interested in seeing The Twins in the Avengers, and how exactly they explain them and their abilities.

[Gakken85]

Is the Falcon the most impractical hero eva or is it just me?

1. Has to hold his hands straight out to fly.

2. Has no protective abilities, armor, or superhuman strength.

3. Uses pew pew machine guns.

4. Hovers stationary in the air to shoot said machine guns.

I guess he makes a good epic mount for cap when he needs to get from one place to another...

My big question is... why doesn't cap just wear the wings when he needs to get around. Paint them red white and blue and call it Captain Eagle flight mode?

Edited April 17, 2014 by Gakken85

[Kanedas Bike]

^ No more so than Hawkeye or any number of random dudes running around in costume with no extraordinary abilities (Batman being an exemplary exception).

-b.