DYRL BD Remaster - the Good.......and the BAD.

[xrentonx]

If the Macross fandom had balls they would boycott this stupid release. Hit Bandai where it means something. Abd then maybe they would release the corret theatrical presentation. But what they released is all except a definitive release. A take your money and run job.

Well it's a little late for that isn't it? Many of us preordered this before any of this stuff came to light (and was confirmed in the flesh by other fans who actually got the disc).

Also the reality is that these calls for boycotts of this kind NEVER work. At least I've never seen them work. It ain't about having balls but you can say it's about apathy.

The best we can do is complain on the internet, blog, review, etc and hope this trickles over to the powers-that-be at Bandai.

[ZenAmako]

Can you imagine censoring Megazone 23 part 2 for violence ? Ha ha ha what a bloody joke it would be. And you can bet someone somewhere would justify it.

If the Macross fandom had balls they would boycott this stupid release. Hit Bandai where it means something. Abd then maybe they would release the corret theatrical presentation. But what they released is all except a definitive release. A take your money and run job.

The violence in Megazone 23 Part II was censored if you got the version included with the limited edition of the MZ23 PS3 game.

But back to Macross, I wouldn't call this a "take the money and run" job. My set came in today, and for the most part I'm pleased. Edits and revisionism aside, it was awesome to finally see this movie in HD. I can't imagine ever going back to the old DVD just to see two seconds of gore. The new 5.1 mix is also a major upgrade.

I confirmed that Minmay's "smile voice" isn't there on the 5.1 track when she smiles at Misa (after singing the song) at the end. I wonder why they took that out. But whatever - you can switch to the original audio if you choose.

My film strip if from the scene where Minmay is telling Hikaru she has decided to sing the song (in front of the big window with the battle going on outside).

[Tober]

Macross DYRL is a whole. Saying that blurring a certain scene, cutting another one completely, changing the mood of another scene doesn't in any way alter the film is just being delusional. Fans will give any kind of stupid justification for their "cocaine", but the changes are still there and because of that the film is objectively different. Same thing with Lucas modifying his films. Little changes here and there and 15 years later you end up with a completely different film (as in the mood of the film is different).

What's next, censoring the rape scene in Royal Space Force ?

What Kawamori has done is crap. He has craped all over the original film and the fans are drinking the kool aid. In this the Macross fandom is no different from any other fandom. Panem et circenses the romans used to say. DYRL is served on a silver dish, unfortunately it stinks.

Can you imagine censoring Megazone 23 part 2 for violence ? Ha ha ha what a bloody joke it would be. And you can bet someone somewhere would justify it.

If the Macross fandom had balls they would boycott this stupid release. Hit Bandai where it means something. Abd then maybe they would release the corret theatrical presentation. But what they released is all except a definitive release. A take your money and run job.

Re-read what I wrote. I did imply that the movie as a whole had changed mood. I'm not happy about it, but I'm just not that upset enough about it either.

The first time I saw DYRL it was a VHS copy. It ended with a fade to black with Minmay tapping her foot - no concert footage afterwards. That's my preferred version, not my preferred format.

If an uncensored or fan-edit version comes out with the scenes restored, I'll happily grab it.

DYRL? is amongst my 5 favorite movies along with Alien, Blade Runner, Star Wars and 37°2 le matin (Betty Blue), so maybe I'm conditioned to director edits...

[Einherjar]

Re-read what I wrote. I did imply that the movie as a whole had changed mood. I'm not happy about it, but I'm just not that upset enough about it either.

I wouldn't take him seriously. He's always been uncomfortably pissed about recent Macross in general.

It's nothing to lose your head over?

(•_•) It won't stop...

( •_•)>⌐■-■

(⌐■_■)

...this movie from rolling.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Einherjar

[Keith]

So anyway, the remaster is...BEAUTIFUL!!! I've only had time to skip through some select scenes, but what I've seen has some mind blowing detail. Yeah there are some soft scenes (The VT-1 parked in the water outside of the PC city comes to mind), but those appear to be caused by the source material which makes them unavoidable.

The level of perspective and layering is phenominal though. If anyone has one of those setups that turn 2-D into suedo 3-D I'd be curious to know what this master looms like there.

[TMBounty_Hunter]

Hopefully fixed now http://www.mediafire.com/?x02uy3wa34gkz6a

[oshanmacross]

That cel of the decapitation scene sold for 69 bucks on Yahoo Japan.

http://page16.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/u39520094

I would have went for it but.......

[UN Spacy]

....I think Tochiro beat you to it.

[oshanmacross]

GOOD, I hope to see it next Macross World Con

Speaking of Macross World Con.....

Edited July 30, 2012 by oshanmacross

[Badaze]

So I finally got to sit down and watch the BD release, receiving it over the weekend. Overall I give the 200 dollar set (via play-asia) a 4.5 out of 5. Yes there are changes and yes that does bother me some. However the cleanup and enhancements to the film are very impressive. Audio is excellent as well. I have several older versions of the film, and the altered footage is not that big a deal though for purist reason it does upset me. Not enough to regret buying this new version though. If you’re sitting on the fence about this one and love Macross don't hesitate to pick this up. Whatever version, the most expensive I believe was close to 600 US dollars.

Some of the scenes are just beautiful, while other; possibly due to the age of the original film appear slightly improved but a little out of focus and grainy. Is it the best they could have done? Don't know, honestly. The altercations seem silly but much of the film is intact and the newly polished scenes are very very nice.

Oh yea, I forgot to mention. I pre ordered. No regrets. I do always wish I had more information before buying though.

[Strumvogel]

The problem is that whatever positives this set has, it is essentially tainted. It's been falsely advertised as the theatrical version when we know it's not due to the edits.

In my case I actually ordered an extra copy as a birthday gift for a friend. So how am I actually going to be able to give this to him in good conscience now?

I guess I can say that it's inpart a joke gift I suppose? Darn expensive one.

"KAWAMORIIIII!!!!" *shakes fist*

[Zinjo]

I just can't support the mutilation of any cinema product, it was released as it was and that version should be respected.

I agree, that at the very least both should be made available!

I am curious if Noboru Ishiguro had any say in this re-edit of his film (yes Kawamori directed the Valkyrie sequences, but Ishiguro was the senior man on the project) before his death?

If they release both versions on BD, I will buy THAT. This "Special Edition" Lucas-type version of DYRL is not going to see any of my money and I've been pretty faithful in purchasing the releases as they came out (except M7, but that is a personal choice).

Edited July 30, 2012 by Zinjo

[Gubaba]

(yes Kawamori directed the Valkyrie sequences, but Ishiguro was the senior man on the project)

Source...?

Edited July 30, 2012 by Gubaba

[VF5SS]

http://www.macrossworld.com/595/noburo-ishiguro-at-otakon-2011/

Attendee 7: Mr. Ishiguro, you and Shoji Kawamori are both credited as the directors of Macross the Movie, so my question is: how did you two divide the directing duties?

Ishiguro: My involvement was mostly in preproduction. The initial phase was where I helped out the most. The rest, such as mecha designs, story development, were efforts by Shoji Kawamori; and not only him, but other young animators, such as Ichiro Itano and Haruhiko Mikimoto. It was their collaboration and cooperative effort. So at that point, I wasn’t too involved with the hands-on work of production.

He must be modest

[Renato]

yes Kawamori directed the Valkyrie sequences, but Ishiguro was the senior man on the project

Itano directed the Valkyrie sequences.

[Michael9]

i just saw DYRL on bd.I can say its worth having because its beautful but the headstomp and decapatation scenes missing bumed me out,if there are more missing feel free to let me know. going to watch it again soon,it's really something on big tv and the right sound!!!

[Zinjo]

Itano directed the Valkyrie sequences.

I was under the impression Kawamori directed these as he was most familiar with their capabilities and such. I believe he was credited for that direction in the series as well, but I don't recall where I saw it.

[Renato]

I was under the impression Kawamori directed these as he was most familiar with their capabilities and such. I believe he was credited for that direction in the series as well, but I don't recall where I saw it.

No, Kawamori is not an actual "animation director" -- he is a general director, so he plots the pacing, how each sequence is going to play out, how they all fit together, etc. He makes sure that the narrative gets from A to D, passing through B and C. He also storyboarded the entire movie. What we actually see on-screen in each shot, however, is up to the animation directors assigned to each sequence and how they interpret Kawamori's intentions. Haruhiko Mikimoto, Toshihiro (nowadays "Toshiki") Hirano, Ichiro Itano and Hideaki Anno (Evangelion/Gunbuster) were the people who actually got down and dirty with all of that. They are the "animators" who decide how things are actually going to move onscreen.

[JetJockey]

Well it's a little late for that isn't it? Many of us preordered this before any of this stuff came to light (and was confirmed in the flesh by other fans who actually got the disc).

Also the reality is that these calls for boycotts of this kind NEVER work. At least I've never seen them work. It ain't about having balls but you can say it's about apathy.

The best we can do is complain on the internet, blog, review, etc and hope this trickles over to the powers-that-be at Bandai.

I rarely if ever pre-order. Few items are so rare that they need to be pre-ordered. Add in the fact that there have been a bunch of DVD/Blu-ray releases that have botched scenes or changes always makes me wait for reviews. Right now, my original source and backup still have the DYRL limited box in stock.

Also, I would not have done business with a retailer that would not let me cancel a pre-order. Basicially Bandai could do whatever they wanted. Which they did. They had the nerve to call an edited version the theatrical edition. The only way a customer can respond to this is to either cancel pre-orders, return the item as defective, or file a credit card dispute as the item was not as advertised. Because right now, this is the Axel Foley rule of I did it once which means I could do it again.

Edited August 1, 2012 by JetJockey

[Strumvogel]

Well, I know that we're only just one week into the release of the BD, but has there been any news about this issue (from Bandai? Fans? Anyone? Ch2?) as of yet?

Last thing I want to hear is that short of a few people returning their copies, the fans in Japan is just keeping quiet and taking what Bandai fed them. They in the end are the only ones that can do anything about it.

After all Bandai(& Japanese companies in general) are just going to ignore anything coming from outside of Japan.

[Mr March]

Really sorry to hear these changes are now a reality for the consumer. All we can do is let the powers that be know we are not impressed and hope this foolishness is corrected on the next format (which I assume will be the 4k format, whenever we get there).

Have to say, I am rather exhausted becoming outraged by the self-censorship creators impose upon their own now-classic works. But I do find I'm learning a lesson in humanity as I live through these events. It's ironic that creators like Kawamori were champions for popular culture in the previous generation and now the biggest enemy to censorship is not some "authority" or "establishment" against which they fought in their youth...it is themselves

"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villian."

I wonder if I'll get this way as I reach my 50s and 60s? As I slow in activity and mellow in mind, will I too become weary of that violence and action which once inspired and energized my imagination in youth? Or will I be self aware enough to recognize that though I may come to grow distaste for those violent parts of life, they are the very same things that spur the youth that follow me into action, for good or for ill? I guess I'll find out.

Think I'll pass on buying this set. Perhaps cheaper availability of DYRL will appear in the future.

[Oihan]

Really sorry to hear these changes are now a reality for the consumer. All we can do is let the powers that be know we are not impressed and hope this foolishness is corrected on the next format (which I assume will be the 4k format, whenever we get there).

Have to say, I am rather exhausted becoming outraged by the self-censorship creators impose upon their own now-classic works. But I do find I'm learning a lesson in humanity as I live through these events. It's ironic that creators like Kawamori were champions for popular culture in the previous generation and now the biggest enemy to censorship is not some "authority" or "establishment" against which they fought in their youth...it is themselves

"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villian."

I wonder if I'll get this way as I reach my 50s and 60s? As I slow in activity and mellow in mind, will I too become weary of that violence and action which once inspired and energized my imagination in youth? Or will I be self aware enough to recognize that though I may come to grow distaste for those violent parts of life, they are the very same things that spur the youth that follow me into action, for good or for ill? I guess I'll find out.

Think I'll pass on buying this set. Perhaps cheaper availability of DYRL will appear in the future.

Great post and nice quote! It is interesting to see how people (can) change over time. Looking back at my own life I see how my own tastes, beliefs, values, and the likes have changed over the years. Just the other day I was looking back at my musical tastes and how they have changed over the years. It made me wonder where my tastes are going to be years from now.

I should have tried cancelling my pre-order when I had the chance...but a few days notice of the changes and my indecision got the better of me. Even though I paid good money for the LE -- even if I hadn't opened up the boxset -- I don't think spending the money to send it back would have been an option for me.

[Strumvogel]

Unfortunately I couldn't cancel even I wanted to.

Which was too bad because of the problems with this set I'm pretty sure I can find myself a secondhand version easily now if I wanted to, unlike before where the demand for it was so high preorders kept running out in the same day.

And picking it up secondhand is probably more worth while considering how much the damn thing cost as it is.

[nautilus]

It might be too little, too late but there seems to be a concerted effort on the part of a number of small retail associations - and, which is more critical a couple of major players, such as Animate and Yodobashi Camera - addressing the complaints they have received to their Bandai reps.

It might not have any effect this time, but the ostrich has had its head pulled from the sand and slapped by a not inconsiderable number of, normally quiescent fans...

One chap, who posted to the retail forum to which the Missus subscribes commented on the seemingly random, and subjective nature of the edits as well. He found the, now infamous head-stomp few less shocking than Milia melting the face off one Zenty (not editted) or fabulous swan-song of Roy (gunpod to the spine, blood to the visor)... He further commented on the disturbing nature of even this minor revisionism (and yes, he did cite Lucas) as an unnecessary meddling with an already established cultural product - though his comparing it to book-burning went into hyperbole...

I just hope that the momentum (personal and industry) keeps up here, because Josey Wale's famous saying applies all over the World and at all times:

"Don't p*** down my back, then tell me it's raining!"

Edited August 2, 2012 by nautilus

[xrentonx]

I rarely if ever pre-order. Few items are so rare that they need to be pre-ordered. Add in the fact that there have been a bunch of DVD/Blu-ray releases that have botched scenes or changes always makes me wait for reviews. Right now, my original source and backup still have the DYRL limited box in stock.

Also, I would not have done business with a retailer that would not let me cancel a pre-order. Basicially Bandai could do whatever they wanted. Which they did. They had the nerve to call an edited version the theatrical edition. The only way a customer can respond to this is to either cancel pre-orders, return the item as defective, or file a credit card dispute as the item was not as advertised. Because right now, this is the Axel Foley rule of I did it once which means I could do it again.

After thinking about this for awhile, I'm pretty much positive I'm just gonna keep what I bought. I hate censorship and edits but in the grand scheme of things, this works out to be a few seconds in two parts that I'm not gonna really miss when all is said and done. I understand that to other people, even a few seconds is too much, but I mostly wanted this for the extras anyway so I'll deal with it.

The only thing that is a shame is that I've never owned a legal copy of this film and this was my first legit copy. If there was anything I'd love to tell Bandai and Kawamori it would be not to make it so difficult for your fans to support Macross...then again, I'm not Japanese.

[Johnomaton]

xrentonx, tell them this:

BANDAI-NAMCOの皆様へ、

おえ、惚けてんじゃねのか？！俺ら海外のマクロスファンはどれほど苦労していたか知ってるのかい？

俺達にはな、マクロス買って欲しいなら日本しかねんだ。海外のみんなは鍛えたぞ、このマクロス劇場版のブルーレーを。

待っても待っても最後の瞬間にあんたらの仕業を知るようになっても手遅れだ！買ってしまったんだ！

どうしてこの時に、まさにマクロスによって聖なるの時間に、あんたらやその川森の野郎が劇場版を検閲したんだろう？

悔しく求めていたのに、なぜだ？！やっと正々堂々と買おうと思ったんだ。何がリマスター？何が劇場版？劇場版じゃね！恥を知れ、この食わせ物！裏切っていたのが世界のマクロスファンだけではなく、「愛・おぼえていますか」のメモリーもさ！

皮肉だな、お前らはこんなことを忘られるなんて。

さっさと本物の劇場版を売っとけー！

Translation: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

Edited August 2, 2012 by Johnomaton

[VF5SS]

They probably won't like the borderline rudeness of that message.

Edited August 2, 2012 by VF5SS

[Tochiro]

Ah yeah telling them that would be pretty counterproductive to say the least. KY much? Yeeeeeesh.

[xrentonx]

Yeah, I ain't gonna do anything that's gonna make me sound like an uncivil ass

[Johnomaton]

Oh now I'M the villain for wanting to troll the trolls? PFFT.

They're probably won't like the borderline rudeness of that message.

LOL. You are too kind.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Johnomaton

[sketchley]

Ah yeah telling them that would be pretty counterproductive to say the least. KY much? Yeeeeeesh.

2nded.

G, KY.

[jvmacross]

So are Easter Eggs also part of Japanese DVD/BD releases? Wonder if the deleted scenes and/or other interesting things are hidden in the disc(s)?

[Gubaba]

Oh now I'M the villain for wanting to troll the trolls? PFFT.

It sounds like a old movie...

[xrentonx]

Oh now I'M the villain for wanting to troll the trolls? PFFT.

LOL. You are too kind.

So you're the puppet master, are you?

[Mr March]

Great post and nice quote! It is interesting to see how people (can) change over time. Looking back at my own life I see how my own tastes, beliefs, values, and the likes have changed over the years. Just the other day I was looking back at my musical tastes and how they have changed over the years. It made me wonder where my tastes are going to be years from now.

I should have tried cancelling my pre-order when I had the chance...but a few days notice of the changes and my indecision got the better of me. Even though I paid good money for the LE -- even if I hadn't opened up the boxset -- I don't think spending the money to send it back would have been an option for me.

I think that's why changes like this self-censorship really irk me; Macross DYRL is one of those staples of popular culture that has endured and survived the bitter judge of culture that is my experience and maturity. I've left plenty of movies, music and literature behind in my past, my present and will do so in my future. But something like DYRL has maintained my interest and admiration over the ages and I do not see that changing. Which is why it's so important to preserve these works...truly enduring popular culture is already rare enough as it is without damaging the few works that survive the ages. But alas, before I get too worked up about it...

I don't think the DYRL Blu-Ray is a bad purchase overall, but I know in it's current edited state the end result would bother me if I purchased it (like Ghost in the Shell). I suppose cost is particularly relevant right now because I've purchased so much Macross merchandise recently (8+ new art books and counting) that I think it best to curtail expenditures. On the plus side, any fans of my site will be much happier if I spend money on line art