The Unlicensed Third Party Transformers Thread

[mikeszekely]

It's funny, there's constantly arguments at TFW about size and scale and MP vs CHUG... but it's all the same to me. I don't care about the official Sunbow scale chart; I see 99% of Transformers as being either tall, average, or short. And since my collection is pretty much entirely 3P now, and then almost entirely combiners, to me tall is a torso, average is a limb, and small would be Deluxe-ish. Tall guys should include team leaders, Optimus, and Megatron (which is why I'll be looking to replace Hegemon), average to me is just about everybody, and small would be for guys like Bumblebee. Is it canon? Nope. But it works for me.

And that's why, while I picked up a few of the Hasbro MPs, I actually sold my Soundwave and stopped. MP-10 was already too tall for my head-canon, and guys like Star Saber and Ultra Magnus were getting ridiculous. I think I avoided the MP cars partly because I didn't feel like dealing with the hassle of importing them, partly because I'd pretty much gone all 3P, and partly because they're MPs and I was thinking that I just don't collect MPs. But if the KOs turn out to be a good fit for my collection (which I think is going to expand to include some of my favorite non-combining characters), I may give some of the MP cars a second look, as well as 3P pieces like Gundog and Sphinx.

[Scyla]

I like:

Now make me one in black and teal. I'm a bit disappointed that the torso only has an ab crunch and no left to right movement. Personally I think MakeToys does much better with the stylized designs compared to their Re:Master line. I'm not impressed with their Headmasters and Megatron, while initially stunning, seems to have also some problems.

[mikeszekely]

I like:

Now make me one in black and teal. I'm a bit disappointed that the torso only has an ab crunch and no left to right movement. Personally I think MakeToys does much better with the stylized designs compared to their Re:Master line. I'm not impressed with their Headmasters and Megatron, while initially stunning, seems to have also some problems.

I have him on preorder. He sounds like (especially if he really does get an armor upgrade) he'll be sized right (or close enough) for my head-fanon, and I love how much articulation he's got.

Unfortunately, The Chosen Prime said they don't expect him until late September, and we're going to be out of the country visiting my wife's family from the end of September until late October. My review for him will be a month behind.

[areaseven]

[technoblue]

It's funny, there's constantly arguments at TFW about size and scale and MP vs CHUG... but it's all the same to me. I don't care about the official Sunbow scale chart; I see 99% of Transformers as being either tall, average, or short. And since my collection is pretty much entirely 3P now, and then almost entirely combiners, to me tall is a torso, average is a limb, and small would be Deluxe-ish. Tall guys should include team leaders, Optimus, and Megatron (which is why I'll be looking to replace Hegemon), average to me is just about everybody, and small would be for guys like Bumblebee. Is it canon? Nope. But it works for me.

And that's why, while I picked up a few of the Hasbro MPs, I actually sold my Soundwave and stopped. MP-10 was already too tall for my head-canon, and guys like Star Saber and Ultra Magnus were getting ridiculous. I think I avoided the MP cars partly because I didn't feel like dealing with the hassle of importing them, partly because I'd pretty much gone all 3P, and partly because they're MPs and I was thinking that I just don't collect MPs. But if the KOs turn out to be a good fit for my collection (which I think is going to expand to include some of my favorite non-combining characters), I may give some of the MP cars a second look, as well as 3P pieces like Gundog and Sphinx.

You're right, and it makes no sense so I pay it no mind as I lurk over there. The G1 toys had no sense of scale, and I had to make an approximation of what I thought was right when I was a kid. I don't see how that wouldn't work today, chart or no chart. I like having Optimus and Megatron being similar heights. The carbots are good if they are smaller than the two leaders. And I'm good mixing and matching different bots from different toy companies if I think they look good together.

I know that doesn't work for everyone, but I don't get why people debate/argue it. One of the mysteries of geekdom, I guess.

<GT Jazz>

From the preview there, it looks like he came out just fine. I'll have to watch the video to see what peaugh thinks of it.

[mikeszekely]

I actually wasn't going to get J4ZZ, but people that have handled both have said that J4ZZ is better than Disorder. He's not a combiner, but like I said I guess it's time to get some non-combining favorites. So he and Striker Manus are going on my preorder list (the rest of which is the rest of the Poseidon and TFM Menasor guys).

[dizman]

Striker Manus looks excellent, the poseability of a high end action figure that can still pull off a fun transformation is something I'm always into. The aesthetic design is also very clever, can't wait to get one in my hands and start messing around with it.

[technoblue]

Striker Manus has an impressive range of mobility. I'm excited to see the toy in person. Skullface kept comparing Manus to an S.H. Figuarts toy in terms of flexibility in his review. That's a good comparison. And I think MakeToys is getting really, really close.

J4ZZ is looks very good too in peaugh's review, which went a long way to ease a number of concerns I had over the look of the grey-ish prototype. The magnets, too, look like a fun gimmick. And I don't have any other transforming toys with magnets, so that will be a new thing. New things are always welcome.

On a completely different note, BBTS posted a warning about opening sealed packages and gluing orange tips to Despotron. I canceled my pre-order with them and I'm unsure who to place a pre-order with now. I guess I'll wait for more information. There hasn't been too much discussion about this over on TFW2005. I think only a representative from the Chosen Prime said it isn't a big deal, but I don't have an account at that store. I'll send a note to Toy Dojo and see what they say about it.

Update: Toy Dojo got back to my query. To give a little more detail, I sent a note to customer service asking if MakeToys was adding the orange tip at the factory. I then asked if they knew if the tip would be easy to remove, or if removal might damage Despotron in some way. I didn't expect much in the way of an answer to these other questions, since no retail Despotrons are available yet. Here is TD's quote for those wondering:

"Thank you for contacting us. The orange tip will be handled at the factory. They are doing this to meet US laws. We don't know how easy it is to remove. I'm not sure if they have decided yet what they are going to do."

I'm hoping MakeToys handles this like XTB. Apollyon had the one orange tip that was not troublesome and served its purpose for shipping/security. For displays, it was easy to undo the safety cap and have Apollyon look like Megatron without an orange muffler.

Edited August 15, 2016 by technoblue

[mikeszekely]

So, while my collection is still largely combiner-focused, I've recently started looking/adding a few prominent non-combiner characters. While I'm NOT into MP and NOT looking start collecting MPs in general, the MP cars do seem to fit nicely with my personal head-canon size for an average Transformer. Some characters are important enough (to me) and some toys done in such an appealing way that I kind of know what I want. Some characters I'm less interested in and/or there isn't a toy out there that really speaks to me.

Mirage is sort of in that second character. He always struck me as a dour character back in the day, and F1 cars don't interest me the way that regular cars do. But he was a pretty prominent character, and he's my buddy's favorite, so I do kind of want a Mirage.

Now, I know that the consensus is that Sphinx is MUCH better than Invisible. Sphinx is also getting harder to find. TFSource looks like the only retailer that has him in stock, and he's $100. He's going for more on Ebay. As for Invisible, well... I have someone offering to sell theirs for $50 shipped. Personally, I don't think that Invisible looks too bad (he reminds me of Classics Mirage, sort of), and I'm not dead set on my Transformers being perfect G1 versions (I've got J4ZZ on preorder). I think if Sphinx and Invisible are the same price, Sphinx is kind of a no-brainer, but Invisible is pretty tempting at half(ish) the cost.

What do you guys think? I know there are some MMC fans here, so I'm expecting to hear some "Get Sphinx!"...

[Vortech]

^ Get Sphinx!

There you go done deal, now go get him, do it now.

Sphinx is a good figure, the transformation can get a little finicky when getting him back into alt mode.

I normally buy my TF's for their robot modes, and Sphinx is great in his robot mode, but MMC did a really good job on his alt mode, so I keep him in alt mode because his F1 presence/look is perfect. I doubt even Takara could pull off a better mirage.

[technoblue]

^^

Invisible was one of the early DX9 MPs. I don't have much to say about it except that it was well regarded when it was released and it was the first 3P Mirage available. I think the price you were quoted is a real deal. It's hard to recommend a figure that would cost you 2x as much, but on eBay Invisible goes for $99 in buy-it-now auctions and I do think Sphinx is worth that much. Besides it's only $10-$12 more than the dark blue original release, and the 01a version is reported to come with better joints.

PS-02 Liger includes the same mold updates and is less expensive, in case you don't mind going for the red pill instead of the blue pill.

Edited August 16, 2016 by technoblue

[mikeszekely]

^^

Invisible was one of the early DX9 MPs. I don't have much to say about it except that it was well regarded when it was released and it was the first 3P Mirage available. I think the price you were quoted is a real deal. It's hard to recommend a figure that would cost you 2x as much, but on eBay Invisible goes for $99 in buy-it-now auctions and I do think Sphinx is worth that much. Besides it's only $10-$12 more than the dark blue original release, and the 01a version is reported to come with better joints.

PS-02 Liger includes the same mold updates and is less expensive, in case you don't mind going for the red pill instead of the blue pill.

That's the rub, though. I'm not looking at Ebay prices for Invisible; I have someone that offered to sell his to me for $50 shipped. So it's buy his now, or pass on it and hope that Sphinx doesn't get more expensive than $100 when I'm more ready to buy (I've seriously got around $1000 in preorders right now).

I'll try to watch some reviews of both tonight, hopefully from people who reviewed both.

And no, Mirage doesn't have to be a perfect G1 representation, but he does have to be blue.

[technoblue]

Good luck with the research. It is a tough decision, but whichever way you go I think you will get a good toy in the end.

[mikeszekely]

I'm going to do something a little different tonight. We're going to look at not one, but six figures tonight! And to do that, we're going to toss the usual format out the window. In fact, I'm even going to start with alt modes. So without further ado, here's iGear's Con Air Raptor Squadron, iGear's take on the Seekers. (But not the other take they did).

Rather than go straight-up G1 F-15, iGear's Raptor Squadron went the IDW route of basing the Seekers on the F-22. As far as I'm concerned, this works great for the original trio. Despite the move to F-22 from F-15, their color and markings are pretty consistent with their G1 cartoon selves (right down to Skywarp being more cartoon-colored than the darker blue of modern toys or the very darker blue that the original toy sported). iGear did opt to go with a blue nosecone for Starscream, which works fine. The main thing is that the the area around the intakes isn't colored. I think it's probably the right choice for an F-22, since that area blends into the fuselage more than on the F-15, and it works fine for Skywarp and Thundercracker, but the loss of that red on Starscream has him looking a little bland.

The transition from F-15 to F-22 doesn't work quite as well for the Coneheads. Thrust pulls it off the best, but he does so by having the same wings and tail as the original trio, only with VTOL fans in the wings. The VTOL fans were arguably his most notable trait in G1, so the loss of unique wings and tail don't affect him much. Dirge and Ramjet replace the F-22 wings and tails with something more akin to their G1 appearances, and... well, the F-22 looks a little weird for those wing styles. Dirge's canards help sell the look a little better than Ramjet, who just looks too long and thin. Like the original trio, the Coneheads still manage to be colored very similarly to their cartoon appearances, although they ditch the extra black on the fuselage and Thrust has some toy-inspired stripes.

Out of the box, I was sort of struck by the size of one of these guys (who came packaged in alt mode). I'm using their Skywarp as the example here, because he's the only one that I have an intact MP to compare with. He dwarfs the Deluxe Classics mold, but he doesn't quite make it to MP-size.

He is still a little bigger in alt mode than a 3P jet like Minos, but he and Generations Voyager-class Brainstorm are in the same ballpark.

Each Seeker has working landing gear. The original trio have four holes for mounting accessories, while the Coneheads have just two.

As far as accessories go, each of the six comes with a stand for displaying them in jet mode. There are holes on their legs under the jet that sandwich around pegs on the top of the stand. For whatever reason the inner portion of the base can rotate.

For the original trio, they each come with a pair of color-coded missile racks, a pair of color-coded null rays, and an alternate face.

Each of the three comes with a neutral, stoic face. Beyond that, Skywarp comes with a little smirk, Starscream comes with a more exaggerated smirk, and Thundercracker comes with an angry grimace. I opted to shuffle things around, though; stoic face for Thundercracker, Skywarp's smirk on Starscream, and Thundercracker's grimace on Skywarp. I love that iGear included these options to give each Seeker a little more uniqueness rather than having them all be different colored Starscream clones. Unfortunately, they all have Starscream's darker gray face.

The backs of their heads are identical. Interestingly, iGear molded them out of a translucent gold plastic but they painted the eyes, so I wonder why they didn't just mold them in black.

The Coneheads get slightly different gear. They trade in their missile racks for a pair of bombs each, which is fine. What I really like, though, is that they each get a unique pair of null rays, unique both to the other Coneheads and to the original trio. They also come with extra faces, although their faces include their cone head so you can't mix and match. They all have the neutral stoic face, plus Thrust has Thundercracker's grimace, Ramjet has Starscream's exaggerated smirk, and Dirge is lucky enough to have a totally unique face with clenched teeth.

At first glance, the Seekers have the same huge-but-not-quite-MP size. Skywarp here towers over the Classics version, but is still a head shorter than MP Skywarp.

In bot mode, though, we see he's actually very similar in size to both Voyager Brainstorm and (more importantly for me) Minos.

Although the F-22 Seekers might have seemed like an IDW-inspired choice, in robot mode the iGear Seekers actually are more of a stylized G1 look than IDW (at least as far as the Seeker look from the -ation series; ironically, the Seekers in IDW after the Dark Cybertron storyline look a lot more like the iGear Seekers). The arms are a little skinny and they're less blocky with a lot more angles, but the null rays, the shoulder vents, the chest intakes, and the way the cockpit tucks into the torso are all G1. The F-22 wings even fold to give a more traditional shape to the wings on the Seekers' backs.

Star Burst, aka Starscream, is actually really spot-on, with all his colors in all the right places. Even the blue on his knees, which isn't 'toon accurate, has precedence in the stickers on the G1 toy. Sky Wind (Skywarp) is close, too, but I'd have preferred a lighter face and black thighs instead of silver. Purple shoulders would have been more 'toon accurate, but I'm fine with his being black.

As I mentioned previously, Thunder Wraith (Thundercracker) is a lighter blue reminiscent of the cartoon. Personally, I'd have liked a deeper, metallic blue, but it does make him look very visually distinct from the also-blue Cacophony (Dirge). And, like Skywarp, he's got silver thighs and a dark face.

Cacophony (Dirge) is almost perfect. His single biggest problem is that iGear didn't put that lovely gold paint that's on the top of his wings on the bottom, which robs his bot mode of that color. Also, something I find a little distracting across all the iGear Coneheads is that, instead of a face peering out from a cone, they've got the vented head shape of the original trio with cones on top.

Vertakill (Thrust) is probably the most changed. While he retains that lovely dark red and black mix, I'd have preferred red thighs. Also, his wings are basically the same as the original trios, so he looses the wings hanging off of his thighs and the unique tail parts on his ankles. He can console himself with the knowledge that he has the coolest name of the six. Oh, and if we're going for 'toon accuracy he should have a lighter face, but a dark face on him isn't as big a deal for me as it is for Skywarp and Thundercracker.

Athodyd (Ramjet) is very close to G1 as well. While sometimes he had white thighs in the cartoon, sometimes he had black (and IIRC black is what Takara went with on the MP). White forearms would have been more 'toon accurate, but the black ones are still toy-accurate. And for those of you wondering about the name, an athodyd (short for aerothermodynamic duct) is a kind of jet engine and, if I'm not mistaken, synonymous with ramjet.

Onto articulation: head is on a ball joint capable of rotating with good up/down movement, but not so much lateral tilt. Starscream, Thundercracker, Skywarp, and Thrust's wings are on a hinged peg so they can rotate and they can bend backwards to stay out of the way (or at least attempt to). The hinged peg is still present on Dirge and Ramjet, but it only holds a tiny part of their wings. The bulk of their wings are hinged and can be bent backward. Additionally, the original trio have a pivoting joint under the stripe in the middle of the wing, allowing them to open up and splay out in a slightly more IDW-ish fashion. Their shoulders have an inward butterfly joint due to their transformation, they can rotate 360 degrees at the shoulder, and oddly enough they're ratcheted for lateral movement and limited to 90 degrees. They've got bicep swivels, and like the old MP Seeker the port for the null ray can rotate independantly from the outside of the arm to the top or the inside (but it can't get to the back of the arm). They've got double-jointed elbows so they can touch their shoulders. Their hands are on ball joints so they have wrist swivels but they also have some play for wrist tilts. They have waist swivels. Their hips can almost do the splits with their hip armor on hinges, they can move their legs all the way backward, but due to the shape of their armor only about 45 degrees forward. They've got thigh swivels built into the hips. Knees are double-jointed, but even if you just use a single knee joint you'll get better than 90 degrees. While they don't have true ankle articulation, their toes can point downward and provide a measure of faux ankle tilt.

To be totally objective, I've run into a few problems with these guys. In bot mode, the chests don't like to stay plugged in, nor do the panels that fold onto the backs of the legs. The panels that fold up onto the forearms don't peg at all, but the friction in the hinges seems to keep them all in place. The friction joints range from "good but could be better" to "I really wish this were better", but I haven't had any trouble getting them to hold a pose. The one place they did put ratchets has too much gap between the teeth and really should have been a friction joint. Keeping every panel, the wings, and the legs properly tabbed together in jet mode is a pain. As these are the only toys I have from the now-defunct iGear, I don't know if this is par for the course for them or not.

However, while they're not perfect, there's a lot of good going on here. They're much more articulated and not so itty-bitty like the Classics Deluxe CHUG Seekers, and at the same time not as huge as the newer Leader-class CHUG Seekers. Personally, I dig the updated-but-unmistakable design and the choice to "upgrade" from F-15 to F-22. The transformation is fairly intuitive, with the only difficult part being where you pull the arms through the body. Honestly, I'm finding the iGear Seekers to be more fun to handle and transform than the original MP Seeker mold. This makes them, even two years after their initial release, probably the best Seekers you can get for any sort of CHUG/3P/non-MP collection, and unless you're looking for a G1-accurate F-15 or something that scales better with the MP line I recommend them.

[mikeszekely]

Good luck with the research. It is a tough decision, but whichever way you go I think you will get a good toy in the end.

I've watched Skullface and emgo's reviews. Got a few more I want to watch yet, but I'm seeing a pattern.

Sphinx is more detailed, more G1-accurate, and higher quality. He's an excellent MP Mirage. Invisible has a narrow waist, less details, and hollow gaps under his arms. He's a good, fun figure, but in terms of aesthetics, attention to detail, and fit & finish he's not an MP figure. If your options are $100 for the MP and $80-100 for a glorified CHUG, well, you'd have to be pretty crazy not to go for the MP.

But, and it's a big but, I don't collect MPs. My Seekers are F-22s. My Jazz is going to be a 911, not a 935. I dig Invisible's T-shaped body. I like that he's not perfectly G1. His transformation looks fun, MMC's looks like a pain. I'm not a fan of Sphinx's arms. I think, even with that in mind, I'd still go with Sphinx if Invisible was going to run me $80+. But $50 (shipped!) for a CHUG-ish figure to go with other CHUG-ish figures or $100 for an MP to go with CHUG-ish figures? Well, Invisible is looking more and more tempting.

[technoblue]

Sphinx does have its fans now, but I think if Takara released an official MP Mirage, it would get redefined as a "chugsterpiece" too by those who thought it had too much detail and real world bits.

But I'm happy with my copy. Sphinx fits in with just about everything in my collection. I think I mentioned this before, not counting Soundwave or Optimus and his clones, I don't own many large MPs. I've been shifting my focus back to Macross and cutting back on the larger Transformers. I've also been waiting on a good Megatron and Starscream, but...I'm still waiting.

With Sphinx, I like how MMC printed on many of the racing/sponsor details, even if some of them turned out a little goofy because they can't use official brandnames. It still adds to the realism that Mirage was a Formula 1 race car. In comparison Invisible seems plain in pictures to me. But there is a repro label set that you can use for both, IIRC, and that works around the problem for the DX9 toy.

Without these printed details, there are nuances to the alt mode design that MMC has in its version that DX9 does not have. I think only F1 fans will notice the differences, though.

Another point worth noting about Sphinx specifically, is that the PS-01a version uses a lighter blue color which many consider to be toy accurate. The original dark blue release was regarded as the toon accurate release. Both versions (PS-01 and PS-01a) are going to get toy heads too. These will be included as first run incentives with MMC's versions of Trailbreaker and Hoist.

Edited August 17, 2016 by technoblue

[Tking22]

Sphinx does have its fans now, but I think if Takara released an official MP Mirage, it would get redefined as a "chugsterpiece" too by those who thought it had too much detail and real world bits.

Meh, I couldn't really see this, most with a Sphinx are happy with him and aren't drinking the Takara/official is always better Kool-Aid. Those that don't have a Sphinx are usually people that never consider third party stuff anyway, because they'll just "wait for the official", as usual. Also, I've never heard of fans defining a toy as chugish because it's more detailed or covered in more real world bits, that sounds odd, but also not too surprising given the fandom I guess. I've seen people attempt to make fun of others for wanting Backdraft over official MP Inferno because it was covered in extra details and paint apps, which is crazy.

I've watched Skullface and emgo's reviews. Got a few more I want to watch yet, but I'm seeing a pattern.

Sphinx is more detailed, more G1-accurate, and higher quality. He's an excellent MP Mirage. Invisible has a narrow waist, less details, and hollow gaps under his arms. He's a good, fun figure, but in terms of aesthetics, attention to detail, and fit & finish he's not an MP figure. If your options are $100 for the MP and $80-100 for a glorified CHUG, well, you'd have to be pretty crazy not to go for the MP.

But, and it's a big but, I don't collect MPs. My Seekers are F-22s. My Jazz is going to be a 911, not a 935. I dig Invisible's T-shaped body. I like that he's not perfectly G1. His transformation looks fun, MMC's looks like a pain. I'm not a fan of Sphinx's arms. I think, even with that in mind, I'd still go with Sphinx if Invisible was going to run me $80+. But $50 (shipped!) for a CHUG-ish figure to go with other CHUG-ish figures or $100 for an MP to go with CHUG-ish figures? Well, Invisible is looking more and more tempting.

Invisible always looked terrible to me as far as G1 accuracy goes, I never even considered him, but with you not focusing on MP aesthetic and G1 accuracy, plus the deal you found, I'd say go with Invisible. Invisible looks like a solid toy, just not MP, most of the reviews I watched before I bought my PS-01A showed he's a neat little figure with just a few tiny flaws, at the price you were offered I'd say he's gonna be a steal. As you pointed out though, Sphinx is disappearing fast, if you're still deciding I'd hurry it up, he could sell out at any time at any of the places that still happen to have stock. I personally can't recommend Sphinx enough, he's incredible, I highly doubt Takara could put out anything official that would rival him.

[mikeszekely]

I went with Invisible.

To be perfectly clear, Sphinx looks like a very high-quality, G1 cartoon-accurate Mirage with a much more detailed alt-mode. I think anyone shopping for a Mirage for their MP shelf should definitely go with Sphinx. I think, if they were the same price, Sphinx is a better value.

But, I dig how Invisible sits somewhere between Classics Mirage and a G1 Mirage. And he seems like the more "playable" of the two. He strikes me as the kind of figure that just isn't worth $100, but at $50 he's a relative bargain for what I want.

[technoblue]

I went with Invisible.

Nice. It's hard to hide that I'm a Sphinx fan, but it is also hard to recommend him when he is 2x what you paid for Invisible.

Meh, I couldn't really see this, most with a Sphinx are happy with him and aren't drinking the Takara/official is always better Kool-Aid. Those that don't have a Sphinx are usually people that never consider third party stuff anyway, because they'll just "wait for the official", as usual. Also, I've never heard of fans defining a toy as chugish because it's more detailed or covered in more real world bits, that sounds odd, but also not too surprising given the fandom I guess. I've seen people attempt to make fun of others for wanting Backdraft over official MP Inferno because it was covered in extra details and paint apps, which is crazy.

Yeah. Some of the collector's jargon continues to escape me. "Chugsterpiece" being one of those odd terms. You are probably right about most people holding onto Sphinx, even if Takara got the license to do an official Formula 1 version of Mirage. Sphinx is a solid toy, even the first release with its more finicky front suspension.

[slaginpit]

Cant understand but looks great

[Scyla]

So I received my replacement parts for Backdraft from PSX today. I'm sad to say that most of them are in worser shape than the parts on the toy. Oh well, at least the one arm is in ok shape that will replace the one on my figure with the hole in the shoulder.

MMC really needs to step up their game for the next figures especially when it comes to paint, gate marks and mold quality. Backdraft is lacking in all these departments. I think it is mostly the fault of the factory. Either that or MMC is trying to reduce the unit costs per toy.

Speaking of factories. GogDog reported over at TFW that the factory where FansProject produced most of their toys (and MMC used to produce Cynicus) was shot down thus all the delays for the FansProject toys. Maybe this also had an influence on the sub par quality of Backdraft.

Here is the original post: http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-3rd-party-discussion/1047047-fansproject-saurus-dinoking-combiner-148.html#post13873308

[slaginpit]

So I received my replacement parts for Backdraft from PSX today. I'm sad to say that most of them are in worser shape than the parts on the toy. Oh well, at least the one arm is in ok shape that will replace the one on my figure with the hole in the shoulder.

MMC really needs to step up their game for the next figures especially when it comes to paint, gate marks and mold quality. Backdraft is lacking in all these departments. I think it is mostly the fault of the factory. Either that or MMC is trying to reduce the unit costs per toy.

Speaking of factories. GogDog reported over at TFW that the factory where FansProject produced most of their toys (and MMC used to produce Cynicus) was shot down thus all the delays for the FansProject toys. Maybe this also had an influence on the sub par quality of Backdraft.

Here is the original post: http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-3rd-party-discussion/1047047-fansproject-saurus-dinoking-combiner-148.html#post13873308

sorry what broke on backdraft. Mine has been spot on no issues.

[technoblue]

sorry what broke on backdraft. Mine has been spot on no issues.

Slaginpit, here is Scyla's original review of Backdraft: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=36937&p=1288940

[mikeszekely]

Invisible came today, so let's take a look tonight at DX9's version of Mirage.

Invisible certainly looks like Mirage. As you'd expect for a toy that some had considered a "masterpiece" take on Mirage, he's closer to G1 Mirage than the early Classics Mirage, and MUCH closer to G1 than Combiner Wars Mirage. He's also larger than either of those Deluxe-class figures.

Although he's more G1 than those figures, there are still some oddities in his design, including the T-shaped torso, the white paint on his hip armor, and the trio of vertical lines on his biceps (which are painted a lovely deep purple), plus the way his spoiler is hidden away instead of filling out his torso (disclaimer: you can leave his spoiler out, but it's wide and looks weird). Between the narrow waist and broad chest and the (admittedly toy-accurate) stripes on his forearms, he actually reminds me of a cross between G1 Mirage and Classics Mirage. This is reinforced by the way his arms tuck in and his legs fold up when transforming to alt-mode. While not entirely G1, I have to admit that I do really like the overall aesthetic presented by Invisible. I think he looks dynamic. That said, I'm not entirely sold on the head sculpt.

While I still don't have an MP car to compare him with, I can show him off with TFM's Disorder. Disorder is actually slightly taller than Invisible, which at the very least means he's a good size for my personal collection of 3P figures.

Invisible comes with two accessories: his shoulder-mounted weapon, and his rifle. The shoulder mounted weapon can be plugged in to either shoulder, and the mounting peg is hinged so it can be titled up or down. The rocket portion is nicely chromed, but it's not removable from the black part. The rifle is silver plastic. Both accessories fall somewhere between toy and 'toon and look quite nice. I've heard some reports of Invisible not being able to hold his accessories well. This is true if you're trying to put the shoulder weapon into his hand, but I don't think the mounting peg is meant to be a handle (it's too short, for starters). I have no problems with Invisible holding his rifle, though.

For articulation, Invisible's head is on a tight ball joint. He's got a fair range up, not a lot down, can look side-to-side, and he's even got a little lateral tilt. His shoulders can rotate, but care has to be taken to keep the panels on his arms from hitting the tires on his back. His got a hinge inside his shoulders for lateral movement that'll get you just under 90 degrees, but you can use it with the transformation joint in his chest to go well beyond 90 degrees, at least on the arm without the shoulder weapon. He's got a bicep swivel and a double jointed elbow that, due to his transformation, can have his forearm flat against his upper arm. His wrists are on ball joints, but the way they're cut they're really only good for rotation (and transformation). All of his fingers are molded as a single piece, hinged at the base knuckles so he can open and close his hands. He has a waist swivel, but it's behind his center line. He can get some natural, dynamic poses out of it but twisting him too far and things will start to look unnatural. His hips are on universal joints and have fantastic range. He can go beyond simply doing the splits; I have his leg moved up laterally first until his lower leg collided with his arm, then after moving his arm and bending his knee I was able to bend his leg further until his knee hit his upper body. His legs can't go straight back because they'll hit some paneling on his but, but if you move his leg laterally a bit you'll get better than 90 degrees backward. Likewise, going straight forward his leg will collide with the hip armor. If you fold it inward, though, he can kick forward until his leg meets his chest. He's got thigh swivels built into the hip and double-jointed knees. His ankles can tilt inward a full 90 degrees, and due to transformation his spoiler-toes can point downward. He' has no ratchets; all of his joints are friction joints, but to be honest they're all tight enough and without any diecast or anything Invisible is small enough (and not part of a combiner) so that I'm not sure ratchets would actually be an improvement. All-in-all, he's a well-articulated figure.

I've heard some people having trouble getting Invisible to stand up without falling over backward. There are little protrusions on the rear axles- out of the box, these protrusions are folded all the way up sot they're touching the black panels on the backs of his legs, and the instructions (which go from bot to car) seem to show you rotating them from that position 180 degrees during transformation. What I've found is that, in practice, you do want to push that protrusion all the way up so that the wheels slide freely when you need to move them for transformation, but for simply standing up you should push the wheels all the way inward and rotate the axle 90 degrees so that the protrusion is pointing straight back from the leg. This seems to position the wheels and lock them from rotating so that they become reliable heels, and he'll have no trouble standing. I even had him balancing on one foot doing high kicks when I was testing his hip articulation.

In an era of big kibble backpacks, I think Invisible even cleans up pretty nice. Sure, he's got those front wheels hanging out there, but that's accurate to the G1 toy and many comic book depictions of Mirage. Panels cover the hollow spits on his lower legs, and I like that rather than just having a seat chill out on his back it folds down and his spoiler fills in the empty space. A big knock, though, is the hollow forearms. This seems to be a deliberate decision by DX9, as Invisible's thumbs actually sit slightly higher than the back of his arm and would keep the panel from closing. A lot of people have said that it's a poor design choice for a "masterpiece" figure, but I'll just refer those people to Bumblebee. And at least Invisible's hollow bits are on the back, where you won't see them most of the time, instead of the inside of his arm were you see them every time you raise Bumblebee's arms.

Invisible transformers into a 1979 or 1980 (I'm not sure if the '79 version had the front wings) Ligier JS11 Formula One car, like the G1 toy and unlike either of the newer Hasbro figures. The front wing, the engine, and the rear spoiler are all a nice chrome. He retains the "26" that Mirage has, and amusingly the "Citanes" on Mirage was changed "Gitanes," the actual cigarette brand that was Ligier's sponsor. Aside from that, though, he lacks a lot of the details that were on the real car, and again has some odd choices like silver-painted section at the front (is that supposed to be the wind screen?) and the hubcaps on the rear tires.

Here he is, again, with Disorder. I think Invisible might actually be a little large compared to Disorder for this mode, but not hugely so (and I they size better as robots, so hey).

Invisible has a gimmick where you can fold the seat down like you're going to transform him into robot mode, then plug one of his weapons into the back of the seat. The instructions show the shoulder weapon, and with the shorter, hinged peg I think that's best. There isn't a spot for the other weapon in this mode, though. Personally, that doesn't bother me, as I don't really like cars and trucks with big guns sticking off of them from weird spots, and I'm not inclined to store either weapon on him.

From a design point, ignoring anything subjective like aesthetics and giving a pass to the lack of covers for the arms since they wouldn't fit with the thumb, I really only have two complaints. First, the biggest one, is transforming the rear tires. When going to alt mode, you have to pull them outward until they click, but this requires you to pull uncomfortably hard. Like you swear you're going to break it hard. The other, much more minor complaint are the rotating sections of his chest. It's easy enough to position them, but there's nothing locking them in place. As I mentioned, his joints are pretty tight which makes the chest sections want to rotate backwards when you're manipulating his arms. It's not a huge deal, but it'd have been nice if there was some sort of tab or something to hold them in place.

All-in-all, I think Invisible is a good toy. But at this point in 2016 you can't talk about him without addressing MMC's elephant in the room, that elephant being Sphinx. Now, I don't have Sphinx, so I cannot personally attest to his quality. I can watch other people's reviews and look at pictures, though, and make some statements about him. I feel comfortable telling you that Sphinx is much more detailed and accurate to the real life Gitanes Ligier JS11 in alt mode than Invisible is. I can tell you that Sphinx makes use of diecast parts where Invisible does not. And aesthetically, Sphinx is indisputably closer to Mirage's animation model than Invisible. So, is being merely being a "good toy" good enough? If you're looking for a Mirage to go with your Masterpiece collection, no, you should definitely go with Sphinx instead. If you're like me, though, and simply want a recognizably G1 figure that doesn't have to be slavish to the Sunbow animation model, like the IDW-style Wildrider I got in Disorder or the upcoming modern Porsche J4ZZ, well then it comes down to price. Most places are sold out of one or the other, especially Sphinx, but for the sake of argument let's say you're shopping at TFSource (since they have both in stock). Invisible is $80, Sphinx is $100. I'd venture that Sphinx is probably worth the extra $20 and I'd still tell you to go that route. However, in a market where Sphinx seems to be going up in price due to demand and scarcity, and some collectors are selling off their Invisibles at lower prices (perhaps to replace him with Sphinx?), it gets a little less cut and dry. Like I said, I actually dig Invisible's aesthetic, and I was able to get him for $50. At that price, I can safely say I'm happy with my choice. Like I said, he's a good toy with a simple, fun transformation and plenty of articulation. He's the kind of figure you can pick up and mess around with. Telling you that most people should really just go ahead and get Sphinx instead isn't the most ringing of endorsements, sure, but if (like me) you're not most people and you can find a good deal on Invisible you're going to be happy with him.

[Scyla]

*snip*

In an era of big kibble backpacks, I think Invisible even cleans up pretty nice. Sure, he's got those front wheels hanging out there, but that's accurate to the G1 toy and many comic book depictions of Mirage. Panels cover the hollow spits on his lower legs, and I like that rather than just having a seat chill out on his back it folds down and his spoiler fills in the empty space. A big knock, though, is the hollow forearms. This seems to be a deliberate decision by DX9, as Invisible's thumbs actually sit slightly higher than the back of his arm and would keep the panel from closing. A lot of people have said that it's a poor design choice for a "masterpiece" figure, but I'll just refer those people to Bumblebee. And at least Invisible's hollow bits are on the back, where you won't see them most of the time, instead of the inside of his arm were you see them every time you raise Bumblebee's arms.

*snip*

It was a stupid design decision on Bumblebee too. Would they have designed the forearms a bit differently there would be enough room to encompass a MP Starscream hand transformation which would've looked much better.

[technoblue]

Good review.

I think Sphinx will go down in price too, eventually. Most of the high prices I see on eBay are from Hong Kong suppliers, where shipping to the US is generally more costly. TFSource appears to have a system in place like N-Y, where the price increases after the first run. Not cool, but I can see how these stores would seek to increase profits using the more popular toys.

Anyway, here is a nice eBay auction (not mine) for the ps-01a version with a price that is more in line with reality: http://m.ebay.com/itm/MIB-3rd-Party-Transformers-PS-01A-Ocular-Max-Sphinx-/112097921239?nav=SEARCH

[Dangard Ace]

IMO Invisible looks more like Gobot Crasher then Mirage.

[Scyla]

More 3rd Party news from TFNations:

http://news.tfw2005.com/2016/08/20/tfnation-2016-3rd-party-panel-roundup-321920

http://news.tfw2005.com/2016/08/20/tfnation-2016-3rd-party-roundup-321803

I love the look of the Unrustable Bastards, even if I'm not a fan of motorbike transforming robots:

As for the other news I can't wait to get Carnifex in hands he looks superb. I probably won't get MMCs Oberon (their Obsidian homage) since the cogwheels are just too off-putting. I will go with their Turbin (Whirl) which is a shame since I will definitively get Titanika.

[technoblue]

Thank you for the links, Scyla.

It's good that Maketoys finally put an end to the speculation around Starscream, but I'm already collecting the FoC bots from Planet X. It's going to be very difficult for another company to pull me away from those and legitimize a larger scale to boot. Where Maketoys is winning me over is with the new Cross Dimension line. The teasers of Manus and Rioter Despotron are getting more of my attention than any of the new Re:Master bots.

For MMC, I'll just repeat what I've been saying: I'm really into most of the Reformatted toys. I like Oberon and Turbin, Titanika and Dicamus. Carnifex...I already have him on pre-order too and he does look like he's going to be a fun one, especially with that face sculpt. I like how chaotic Anubis looks with his comic book colors (mimicking Death's Head), but I'm not sure if I'm sold on him. I'm not sold on Jaegertron or MMC's Reformatted Cyclonus either, so it could be this mould that isn't clicking with me.

As characters, Trailbreaker and Hoist were never favorites of mine, and the new 3P Masterpiece-style bots based on them do not interest me much at all. I plan to skip them completely at this point. I am going to keep an eye out for that rumored reissue of Badcube's Brawny, and I may listen to reviews of Grump and Slick, because I would like to add more min-bots alongside Bumblebee.

Edited August 20, 2016 by technoblue

[Valkyrie Hunter D]

After looking at some newer pics of DX9's Megs, I'm having a hard time sticking with my first choice of MT's Despotron being my MP styled Megatron. I'm definitely liking Mightron's head sculpt and legs more than Despotron's.

[mikeszekely]

I think Mightron is looking pretty good, yeah. I don't even mind the back kibble so much, and contrary to earlier reports he does have a waist swivel. Plus, he's the cheapest of the "MP" Megatrons. Still wish they'd do something about the gaps in his torso under his arms.

RE Invisible looking like Crasher: well, they did do a Crasher repaint, and yeah, the bot mode does look like Crasher. The alt mode, not so much.

RE the TFNations news: Mostly I'm just happy that Fansproject hasn't abandoned the Function X Headmasters. I wasn't aware that there was any "speculation" about Maketoys Starscream... I thought it was pretty much a known thing that Howling Meteor was (for some unfathomable reason) always going to be an "MP" Galaxy Force Starscream? But yeah, their Cross Dimension line is looking hot, and their sized well for my collection. I've already got Striker Manus on preorder, and I'll definitely pick up Rioter Despotron. I might passon their Bumblebee, though... I was never a huge 'Bee fan, and frankly in recent years I've gotten sick of him.

RE MMC specifically: Carnifex and their DJD guys are looking as awesome as ever, but their other Reformatted characters, no so much. Mostly because they seem to be going the Hasbro route, planning multiple retoolings out of the gate that don't really impress me as either character. I mean, if they'd have focused on making a really good IDW MTMTE-style Whirl, I'd be all over it, but Turben's not it. Their Jaegertron Cyclonus retool? Nope.

[sh9000]

http://tfsource.com/xtransbots/Apollyon-2nd/

[technoblue]

Maybe it was early speculation, when MT teased the first silhouette of Starscream? I remember reading a conversation on TFW where some fans were sure that the Re:Master version was going to be more G1 and that there would be another Starscream added to the Cross Dimension line that had a Cybertronian aesthetic. I could be getting my wires crossed on that, though.

[David Hingtgen]

That's exactly how I remember it. The early pic was PURE G1. Tall thin vertical intakes above the shoulders, F-15 wings, etc.

[mikeszekely]

Maybe it was early speculation, when MT teased the first silhouette of Starscream? I remember reading a conversation on TFW where some fans were sure that the Re:Master version was going to be more G1 and that there would be another Starscream added to the Cross Dimension line that had a Cybertronian aesthetic. I could be getting my wires crossed on that, though.

That's exactly how I remember it. The early pic was PURE G1. Tall thin vertical intakes above the shoulders, F-15 wings, etc.

Wait, wait... I'm mixing up names, but I'm still not sure about "speculation."

Yes, Maketoys showed a silhouette for a G1-style Re:Master Seeker with the name "Howling Meteor." That was like a year ago, and with the number MTRM-09.

But they also showed a silhouette for MTRM-13 with the name "Galaxy Meteor". Since it was in April, some people thought it was an April Fool's joke. Scaleface at TFW suggested that it might have something to do with Cross Dimension, but back then we didn't know what Cross Dimension was. I don't think anyone ever seriously thought Galaxy Meteor was part of the Cross Dimension line, and I thought it was always clear that Maketoys was doing both an MP G1 Starscream and an MP Galaxy Force Starscream.