The Unlicensed Third Party Transformers Thread

[M'Kyuun]

Kinda diggin that TW Bulldog; The old British Mark IV/V tanks were really cool looking, even if they were realistically inefficient. Indiana Jones: The Last Crusade was my intro to the thing, as I'm sure it was to most of my generation, and I've always thought it one of the coolest looking military machines ever built. 

Years ago, Don Figueroa designed a concept version of Grimlock in a GI Joe / Transformers crossover set in WW I where Grimlock's alt was a Mk V. I would've loved a toy of it.  One thing I dislike about the majority of tank alts is the breakup of the treads for bot mode. Working treads on a toy, and especially on a Transformer, is just a fantastic realistic feature, and I love to see it. I bought Combiner Wars leader Megatron more for that reason than any other, as the figure is so-so. The way the legs were engineered to allow for knee functionality is fantastic. Admittedly, the look of the lower legs are one of the fig's weakest points, but I still love the working tread feature. The working treads on TW's Scavenger and Bonecrusher , as well as their having the most G1 accurate Long Haul of the 3P Constructicons, were primary deciding factors for me to get the set. While the treads on those figs hang up a little, I still love that they employed that feature.

Anyway, here's Don's take on Grimlock.

[Kuma Style]

That's actually not too far off from Grimlock's War Within design so seems like something that could transfer over to physical form really easy.

[Kuma Style]

[JB0]

Is that a proper Monstructor?! Heck yeah, I thought we were only ever gonna see the japanese colors for that one!

[mikeszekely]

6 hours ago, JB0 said:

Is that a proper Monstructor?! Heck yeah, I thought we were only ever gonna see the japanese colors for that one!

It came out as a box set quite some time ago.  But I see BBTS still has some.

[JB0]

1 hour ago, mikeszekely said:

It came out as a box set quite some time ago.  But I see BBTS still has some.

That's enough of a lead to find it.
...

Three hundred and sixty dollars? I am not THAT fond of Monstructor.

[David Hingtgen]

I keep hoping the pile of Monstructors will someday hit super-low prices during Black Friday, like Quantron often does.  I'd like a Monstructor, and that's the only one--but that version wasn't that great to start with.   (combined mode looks pretty good, and that is the important mode---but the individual bots and alt-modes are pretty poor, and of course there's no pretender shells---you're basically buying an actionmaster at this point)  

Plus it commits the cardinal sin of "nowhere to put insignias".  

[Kuma Style]

2 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

 there's no pretender shells---you're basically buying an actionmaster at this point)  .  

.... what?

(Note: I know what pretenders are but I also know what action masters are and I don't see how full on transforming and combining pieces fall into that category because there aren't additional shells for them to sit inside.)

Edited May 25, 2020 by Kuma Style

[David Hingtgen]

I meant, due to the individual robot and alt-modes being relatively poor (IMHO), the only aspect that it does well is combined mode, which means it'll rarely be transformed.  Thus, it's effectively an action-master.  

Vs say, other 3P combiner teams where the individual bots are so awesome I often leave them un-combined.  

[Kuma Style]

18 minutes ago, David Hingtgen said:

I meant, due to the individual robot and alt-modes being relatively poor (IMHO), the only aspect that it does well is combined mode, which means it'll rarely be transformed.  Thus, it's effectively an action-master.  

Vs say, other 3P combiner teams where the individual bots are so awesome I often leave them un-combined.  

Oh gotcha. I don't know if you're just talking in terms of aesthetic (which is what it is) but functionally the individual bots are actually a lot better than the combined form.

I have no problem showing my bias here in that I hate slavish G1 homages and greatly prefer things like the FP/MT sylization. 

[David Hingtgen]

Oh, I'm all about FP/MT stylizing, and the early MP's.  I just think Monstructor missed the mark a bit, in that "not enough bits fold away" for bot mode, mainly, and/or beast and bot mode are a bit too similar.  (there's so many 3P figures, where they're like one hinge away from "folding the beast legs away inside the bot legs" but just leave them hanging there like the G1 toys did)    

But, considering that "non-toon-accurate" combiners seem to be a thing of the past, I may still pick it up, if it goes cheap.  (Same for Quantron, which has many flaws, but often gets really cheap)  

[Kuma Style]

Monstructor is based on the IDW comics interpretation (I don't think it was in the cartoons.) Aesthetically it's a good take but looking at some of the artwork I'd be interested in a "clean" take on it as well.

Quantron is one of my favorite combiner toys ever. Both the individual and combined modes just rock for me.

------

Got some goodies. FP intimidator out for delivery.

 

 

 

[Kuma Style]

[Kuma Style]

 

[mikeszekely]

That T-Beast Sideswipe looks great.  I just have too much money tied up in other stuff right now, and it doesn't really fit with the rest of my collection.

[mikeszekely]

So three years ago I picked up and reviewed Planet X's Jupiter here.  Sometime after that I sold Jupiter, since I'd decided to focus on a more MP-style collection (plus, y'know, I didn't have the highest opinion of Jupiter in the first place).  But then I moved, and after I moved I wound up leaving the Gundam models I'd built in storage and I used one of the Detolfs they'd been in just to display different versions of Optimus I'd picked up, and I started to regret getting rid of Jupiter.  And then earlier this year I picked up several Planet X figures that BBTS had marked down, and I really started to regret selling Jupiter.  Around that same time Planet X announced a reissue with a new metallic paint job, so I preordered and forgot about it until I got hit with the invoice (and of course it'd come out when a bunch of other preorders came out so I wound up getting yelled at for that credit card bill).

Anyway, I'm not going to re-review Jupiter, but I thought you guys might like to know what's different, in case you're thinking about getting one.

Of course, the most obvious difference is the paint.  The previously unpainted gray, red, and blue plastics are now metallic silver, gloss red, and metallic blue, respectively (with one exception), and the paint really makes him pop.  There are some minor differences, though.  The original in-game models, not helped by the lighting technology at the time, had kind of a grungy-yet-shiny look, and it was hard to tell what was meant to be silver and what was meant to be black or gunmetal.  So, on the original version there were parts that were black like the pipes on his shoulders and the backs of his legs and the glowing booster thing in his backpack that are painted silver here.  Likewise, the stripe on the front of his forearm was painted gunmetal, now it's silver.  And his hands, which were actually blue before, are also silver.  Unless you think some of that silver should be darker (for me, mainly his hands), those changes are arguably more game-accurate.  Less-accurate, though, are the fact that they omitted some pink paint from inside the pipes, opting instead for a bit of blue around the edges.

The changes apply to his accessories, too.  The detail inside his chest aren't painted (or rather, aren't painted differently) anymore, and instead of being gold with a translucent blue core the Matrix is painted silver with a translucent red core.  Not a fan of that.  His sword, axe, and gun are silver instead of black; I think I preferred black for the gun; it's the color of his ion rifle and the color used in concept art, but it's definitely more silvery in-game.  Some of the original blue-painted details are red, others are just flat out left silver.  Red matches concept art, blue matches the game, but either way it needed more of it.  As for the axe and gun the translucent blades are replaced with painted ones, and they look fine.

If you don't have Jupiter and you're looking to get one this is the version to get.  While I'm not a fan of every change, like his gun or his Matrix, they're smaller negatives compared to how much better the robot looks overall.

[technoblue]

The metallic weapons, especially that ion blaster, would be nice alt weapons for Charon I think.  If this had a lower asking price, I might have also considered it to enhance my original release Jupiter with hodgepodge metallic limbs and accents. But alas...

How are the joints on this release? Were they okay out of the box or did they seem loose? The only metallic Planet-X figure that I have on hand is Caelus. Yeah, not a good representative of the line, but the original figure was decent. My metallic copy in comparison is a floppy mess. It reminds me of Summanus before I applied the hip fix.

 

[Kuma Style]

[mikeszekely]

12 hours ago, technoblue said:

The metallic weapons, especially that ion blaster, would be nice alt weapons for Charon I think.  If this had a lower asking price, I might have also considered it to enhance my original release Jupiter with hodgepodge metallic limbs and accents. But alas...

How are the joints on this release? Were they okay out of the box or did they seem loose? The only metallic Planet-X figure that I have on hand is Caelus. Yeah, not a good representative of the line, but the original figure was decent. My metallic copy in comparison is a floppy mess. It reminds me of Summanus before I applied the hip fix.

 

The joints are all tight, some of them almost too tight.

[technoblue]

55 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

The joints are all tight, some of them almost too tight.

My copy of Metallic Caelus must've been an unfortunate coincidence. No matter. As noted, I'm content with the original.

Speaking to this version of Jupiter, I'm thinking for a first timer it's better to have tight joints than loose out of the box. It should be easier to adjust screws or quiet squeaks if they're a nuisance, no?

Edited May 27, 2020 by technoblue

[Kuma Style]

[Kuma Style]

 

[David Hingtgen]

FP Menasor!  Not-Breakdown was my first 3P figure ever.  (and boy did it take a lot of sanding tabs/edges/pegs to be able to transform well, like a resin garage kit but made of plastic…)

Anyways, notable for actually having the cars form the arms, and like 2/3 of the mass of the lower legs.  Still very rare, but still not quite as G1-toy-esque as I'd like.  But still the only Menasor I've bought, because toon-style Menasor is just ridiculously stupid.  More like Motormaster cosplaying as Menasor...

[Kuma Style]

Put on the DMY parts.

[JB0]

On 5/25/2020 at 9:48 PM, David Hingtgen said:

Oh, I'm all about FP/MT stylizing, and the early MP's.  I just think Monstructor missed the mark a bit, in that "not enough bits fold away" for bot mode, mainly, and/or beast and bot mode are a bit too similar.  (there's so many 3P figures, where they're like one hinge away from "folding the beast legs away inside the bot legs" but just leave them hanging there like the G1 toys did)    

But, considering that "non-toon-accurate" combiners seem to be a thing of the past, I may still pick it up, if it goes cheap.  (Same for Quantron, which has many flaws, but often gets really cheap)  

In fairness, the original Pretender Monsters were pretty dodgy designs. If you're very faithful to the source, you're not impressing anyone. And the Monstructor team don't have a lot of appearances to reference for non-toy inspiration. 

[David Hingtgen]

IMHO, pretty much all beast-formers should have the beast-limbs fold away inside the robot, in robot mode.  Anything less is just lazy in this day and age.  All these figures with ginormous hollow robot calves, that leave beast-legs just hanging outside....

Exceptions for ones with ACTUAL animal alt-modes, like first season Beast Wars.  The "wearing animal skins in robot mode" are very much a core part of the look.  

[Kuma Style]

[Dobber]

Love your pictures Kuma!

Chris

[Kuma Style]

Thank you, boss. I appreciate it.

[JB0]

5 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

IMHO, pretty much all beast-formers should have the beast-limbs fold away inside the robot, in robot mode.  Anything less is just lazy in this day and age.

I'm the opposite. I actually like the animal legs hanging off the humanoid form. Makes me sad when they put a whole lot of effort into hiding something that should be on display.

 

I guess this is why Gigapower decided to offer a dual-style transformation with Grassor.

[M'Kyuun]

I also tend more towards hiding them; FT's Dinos really spoiled me on that front, and I thought it was fantastic how well they cleaned up. Since then, I tend to like to see them hidden or integrated in a meaningful way rather than just hanging off as kibble. The Beast Wars figs are notable exceptions; I just accept them as they are.

[mikeszekely]

The fandom: "That's the most obnoxiously huge backpack ever!"

Fans Toys: "Hold my beer..."

[technoblue]

HaHa! No wonder Brawn was always grouchy. He got stuck carrying the Autobots' junk. 

Then again, maybe that's where FT keeps all the detachable limbs? 

[mikeszekely]

It's time for me to bring up a figure that's a bit polarizing over at that message board that shall not be named:  Fans Toys' Iceman, their MP-style Air Raid.

So, first impressions, and holy cow does Iceman look good.  Not just good, he looks right.  I mean, people have insisted that Zeta's was based more on the toy, but let's be clear, the toy didn't have translucent panels on his chest and hips, he had red and yellow stickers.  He didn't have silver thighs, free, or on the middle of his chest, he had white.  What Zeta actually gave us looked like a generic body that could have been Fireflight's as much as Air Raid's.  And it felt kind of cheap (to be fair it was pretty cheap, retailing for around half of Iceman's price), with sides that liked to collapse, ball joints for ankles, and those weedy ToyWorld/Zeta hands.

Iceman is none of those things.  He looks just about perfect, hitting that sweet spot where he's got just enough details to look like a real robot but enough attention to those details to look extremely cartoon accurate as well.  All the red you see is a bright metallic red paint.  Almost all the white you see is paint with a pearlescent, satin sheen.  Translucent panels on his chest reveal some interesting mechanical detail.  And it feels good, too, with the usual Fans Toys' heft, plastic that feels sturdier, tighter joints, and a more solidly-connected backpack.

Speaking of backpacks, it was something of an (minor) issue that the previous guy, their Skydive, had a pretty massive backpack.  Fans Toys did a much better job cleaning up the backpack on Iceman, although in doing so they seem to have brought a few new issues to the table.

Now, I think it's only fair that I point out that there have been a number of reported QC issues with this guy.  The most common issues seem to be stuck finger joints and loose knees due to short screws that don't hold everything together properly.  Slightly less common issues, but ones that are still being reported, are legs sheering off where they connect to the pelvis and arms breaking at the shoulder.  Well, 31 must have been doing his or her job the day my copy was coming down the line, because I have none of that.  My complaints about Iceman will all be related to the design, starting with something you might have already noticed- Iceman is big!  When Zeta was doing their Aerialbots everyone insisted that the Aerialbots should be Seeker-sized.  When the Stunticons started coming out people debated whether XTB was right to go with Autobot car-sized robots since they also turned into cars, or if DX9 was right to make them Seeker-sized since their rivals, the Aerialbots, are Seeker-sized.  Well, Iceman is not Seeker-sized.  As you can see with Zeta's Air Raid and the similar-sized Maketoys Starscream Iceman is about a head taller than them.

Iceman is, in fact, a little taller than Fans Toys' own Skydive, coming eyes-to-nose with most MP-styles of Optimus Prime (like TE-01 here).  I'm sorry, you guys, but Iceman is too big.  And I hear a lot of people arguing, "well, maybe it's a little too big in robot mode, but that's the size it needs to be to get the right height for combined mode."  OK, but-

1. I'm not buying them for combined mode.  Zeta's totally scratches my itch for Superion.  I'm picking these guys up for robot mode because I think that's where Zeta really dropped the ball.  And speaking of Zeta,

2. ToyWorld's Constructor is still considered the standard for a properly-sized MP combiner to scale correctly with MP-10 (and all the MPs that came after, even MP-44, are still using that scale).  Zeta's Superion is already the same size as Constructor.  If Zeta's Superion is already the "correct" size, and they did with an Air Raid that's a head shorter than Iceman, then I'm not sure that "Iceman needs to be bigger for combined mode" is an argument that necessarily holds water, although I suppose I'll have to give them the benefit of the doubt until we can actually build FT's Superion and see.

Anyway, moving along.  Iceman comes with a replacement, yelling face, cool for those that want it.  He also comes with a pair of pistols.  The last guy came with a pair of pistols, too, and you know what, I think they only used one gun each in the cartoon and the G1 toys only came with one gun.  I guess it must be for symmetry in alt mode.  The guns themselves are painted and have decent enough molded detail.  The handles can fold back to reveal a little peg that'll be used for alt mode.  I think the shape of the guns is a little weird, but it seems to be cartoon-accurate.

Before I really get into Iceman's articulation I'd better tackle the elephant in the room... when Iceman is properly transformed for his robot mode he does NOT have a waist swivel.  And I've seen all sorts of excuses by the FT fans to try to justify it, the most common ones being that it was maybe omitted for combined-mode stability, a waist swivel isn't important on a toy that most people are going to leave in combined mode, that waist swivels really aren't that important and we all pose our toys without them, or it was too difficult to engineer a functioning waist swivel with half a plan on his back.  In fairness to that second argument it is his backpack that's the problem.  The rear of the plane that makes the bottom of his backpack is on a diecast armature that's hinged at the base of his spine, but in robot mode properly sits in a groove right down his butt, locking his waist in place.  And if you start pulling his backpack out of place you'll find that without the armature running down his butt he not only has a waist swivel, that waist swivel is ratcheted.  But whatever the argument, my counterpoints are that in 2020 things like a waist swivel should be a given (especially on a $130 figure), that Zeta figured out how to build an Air Raid with a working waist swivel two years ago, that Fans Toys has a track record of making robots that look great on a shelf but often have problematic engineering and/or articulation issues, and they get away with it because people will buy whatever crap they put out and make excuses for them later.

As for the rest of his articulation, Iceman's head is on a hinged swivel without a lot of up/down tilt and no sideways tilt.  His shoulders rotate on ratchets, but the joint's got this weird thing going on where the joint is actually in front of the shoulder so instead of the shoulder rotating on the joint it rotates around the joint.  The shoulders can hinge out to 90 degrees.  He's got bicep swivels, and single-jointed elbows good for just 90 degrees.  His wrists swivel.  His thumb is on a ball joint at the base, and each of his fingers is individually-articulated with hinges at the base and two additional knuckles.  His hips rotate forward on ratchets a little over 90 degrees, and although backward is a bit more limited just due to his backpack kibble.  They move laterally 90 degrees on friction hinges.  That's usually what I prefer, but I should point out that Iceman's legs are a bit heavy.  On my copy he'll hold a kicking pose, but just a little shake and the leg will start to come back down.  His thighs rotate around the hip joints.  His knees bend 90 degrees on a single ratcheted hinge.  His feet don't bend up, but his toes can bend down for transformation.  His ankles can pivot up to 90 degrees, so no issues there.

He holds his guns nice and tightly using the bog-standard tabs on the handles and slots in the palms.

Iceman's transformation starts off fairly easy, especially if you've handled the previous one.  I wasn't even using the instructions, and at no point was I even really unsure about what it was I needed to do.  Near the end, though, it gets frustrating due to a number of clearance issues (his hip skirts have to tuck into his his shins, the armature that the bottom of the backpack his on needs to be sandwiched between and ultimately under panels on the backs of his legs, and thankfully his wings are on c-clips because they're going to get in the way so often that you're going to pop them off).  And, honestly, I think I have some issues with the jet mode, too.  For starters, I gave Zeta more of a pass because if their robot mode wasn't super 'toon or toy accurate then why should their jet mode, but since Iceman was super cartoon accurate in robot mode I have to point out that it's just not in jet mode.  I mean, his horizontal and vertical stabilizers are left plain black, with none of the toy's sticker details, which is fine.  But then his wings have silver edges with thin red and yellow stripes.  It's somewhat similar to what Zeta did, and closer to the toy than the single white stripe seen in the cartoon.  I can't help but be disappointed; I prefer the cartoon's cleaner look.  Likewise, Fans Toys used a dark translucent plastic, nearly opaque, for the canopy.  The cartoon, taking its cues directly from the G1 toy, had a silver canopy.

The size is a little off, too, but not as badly as the robot mode.  You can see that the proportions are similar to Zeta's, but it has a much longer nose.  And compared with an official MP Skywarp Iceman seems to have a thicker fuselage and nose, but similarly-sized wings and stabilizers.  The fuselage lines up with the official pretty well from the intakes through the wings, but as we go beyond the wings Iceman winds up being just a little longer.

Looking at him from the sides and he's not a ton different than Zeta's version.  I know the boxy robot under a plane thing is a peeve of @M'Kyuun, but I'll allow it here.  You can make a case that it's G1 accurate for the Aerialbots, and Air Raid in particular probably needs a certain level of brickishness to make for a solid leg.

Taking a quick peek at the bottom of the jet.  You can see that he's got landing gear that folds out from the plane's nose and from the colored detail on his robot knees.  There's also a tiny peg hole on the underside of either wing.  The little pegs you revealed when you flipped back the handles fit into those holes for alt mode storage, one on each wing.  Hence my remark about alt mode symmetry.

Iceman's canopy can also open, revealing a molded seat and controls inside.  Credit where credit is due, the details on the controls are sharp, and FT even painted some of them with red, blue, and yellow paint.  It's the kind of thing that nobody would have noticed or said anything if they'd left unpainted, but they did and it looks fantastic.

If you're like me you might be satisfied with Zeta's Superion as your MP Superion, but their Aerialbots aren't cutting it for MP Aerialbots.  Iceman, on the other hand, looks exactly like what I wanted for robot mode, with a good but seemingly more toy-inspired jet mode.  That said, if you like to handle your toys you may find the transformation a bit frustrating.  But the biggest disappointment for me has to be his articulation.  While I'm not a big fan of what Takara's been doing lately they're arguably FT's closest rival, more than any other 3P, and I understand a big part of Takara's "stuff the whole alt mode into a backpack" approach is to maximize articulation.  Ab crunches, double-jointed knees and elbows, and butterfly joints at the shoulders are becoming increasingly common on 3P figures and pretty much standard on Takara's. 90 degree single-hinge elbows and knees used to be the absolute minimum, but these days they feel like too little.  And the lack of a functional waist swivel (even if it meant turning the waist over 180 degrees in one direction) is totally inexcusable.  Iceman always looks kind of stiff in any pose but a stoic, slight A-stance.  For now, Iceman is unquestionably the best MP-style Air Raid you can get.  However, if X-Transbots, DX9, or MMC were to try their hand at the Aerialbots I think they'd come up with something that isn't a pain to transform, isn't too big, and has better articulation.  If I absolutely knew one of them were working on Aerialbots I'd tell you to pass on Iceman, sell the other two if you already have them, and just wait.  Unfortunately scalpers and FOMO seem to be hitting FT's products hard lately, and they're selling out quickly, so you might be better off buying Iceman now.  Just hang onto the box so you can sell him later.

[Scyla]

Two remarks regarding Iceman. First I think the size works if you either pose it while fighting against other figures or you place them on a different shelf.

Of course if you display all your robots in a single line in the same generic A stance like on the Holy Scale Chart it becomes a problem. And given all the comments on the TFW boards I assume that is what most of the collectors do. 

For me it is more important that they have different sizes to make a varied display. Can’t argue that he is too big though.

The waist swivel being locked by the metal bar is just lazy engineering and the figure should have it. But I guess FT knows their fans well and they know they will buy it regardless.

Also FT figures that kinda have a waist swivel that doesn’t work properly is not unheard of (Phoenix, Quietus and Goose come to mind).

I assume that Iceman has it because the parts are reused from Goose design and FT thinks it is good enough for their fans.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Scyla