The Unlicensed Third Party Transformers Thread

[nhyone]

1 hour ago, tekering said:

HasTak are desperately trying to crowdfund their figure, and you're trying to take money out of their pocket, enticing them with an unlicensed version of the same character.

If you think about it, it was Zeta Toys that was scooped by HasLab. It was supposed to be their big reveal on Aug 10. They decided to hold back until Sep 1, except HasLab extended their campaign and ZT said, "not going to wait anymore".

ZT is planning to release this end of this year. They don't have much time.

Edited September 7, 2019 by nhyone
Grammar

[tekering]

1 hour ago, nhyone said:

If you think about it, it was Zeta Toys that was scooped by HasLab. It was supposed to be their big reveal on Aug 10. They decided to hold back until Sep 1, except HasLab extended their campaign and ZT said, "not going to wait anymore".

Either way, it's their funeral.  

This could be the straw that breaks the camel's back.  The threat of litigation could bring down the whole third-party market.

[nhyone]

41 minutes ago, tekering said:

This could be the straw that breaks the camel's back.  The threat of litigation could bring down the whole third-party market.

I don't know. Given what just happened to Toy World, the fact that they still went ahead says they think they are on safe grounds.

[captain america]

1 hour ago, tekering said:

Either way, it's their funeral.  

This could be the straw that breaks the camel's back.  The threat of litigation could bring down the whole third-party market.

If the Haslab crowdfunding fails, and based on how it is at a virtual stall now it likely will, then you can bet your a$$ that Hasbro will unleash their legal "Unicron" on 3P, and Zeta in particular.

[anime52k8]

9 hours ago, Dangard Ace said:

Sun of the Empire Zeta Unicron test

 

Wow. that is some really interesting origami going on there.

[nhyone]

8 hours ago, captain america said:

If the Haslab crowdfunding fails, and based on how it is at a virtual stall now it likely will, then you can bet your a$$ that Hasbro will unleash their legal "Unicron" on 3P, and Zeta in particular.

While many people think Hasbro is tolerating the presence of 3P, I don't share that view. Cross the line, Hasbro will come after you faster than you can transform your 3P figure.

Clearly over the line: trademark and counterfeit

At the line: KO and stuff that resembles their physical products

Not that close to the line: 3P G1 stuff (IP violation)

For example, TE-01 comes with the Autobot insignia sticker sheet. I thought that was bold of them, but apparently it was okay.

And why was the v2 head not installed by default? Maybe it is too close for comfort. (Because it is based on MP-44.)

[mikeszekely]

So, yesterday in the official Transformers thread I reviewed Year of the Rooster Optimus Prime, aka Hybrid Style Convoy, and I concluded that "there are much better options for a Legends-size Optimus Prime at lower prices available today."  And to illustrate that, here's a look at Magic Square's MSB-18 Light of Justice, which is basically a Legends-size version of their MS-01 Light of Freedom.

Two things immediately jump out at me when I look at this figure with YotR/HS Prime.  The first is that YotR/HS Prime actually looks like the more premium figure with diecast parts, chrome, translucent windows, and plenty of paint, while Light of Justice has minimal paint and is mostly that soft-colored nylon plastic Magic Square likes to use (apparently because it's extremely durable, so I guess there's that).  The second thing, though, is that while it doesn't have that premium look, the actual sculpt and design of the figure is much more refined.  In fact, the overall proportions and design are nearly identical to the MP-scaled MS-01.  And that's really because, aside from a few simplifications, Light of Justice actually shares almost all of it's design and engineering with it's larger sibling.  In robot mode, the most obvious of those simplifications are the front of the pelvis being a single piece with molded and painted yellow marks instead of translucent plastic, smokestacks that are separate pieces with less detail and no sliders, unarticulated hands, no chrome, and the windows on his chest are simply molded and painted instead of being separate translucent parts.

He comes with more accessories than Light of Freedom, though.  You do still get his iconic ion rifle and energon axe.  To make up for the lack of articulated hands he comes with a pair of fully closed fists and a pair of pointing hands.  He also comes with a pair of open hands.  Now, the other two pairs are a right and left, both blue, but the last pair are both right hands, and one is white.  You'll notice that they actually fit together, and I believe the white hand is actually for Magic Square's Legends-sized Ultra Magnus, so you can have Prime and Magnus shaking hands.  You also get a trailer, Roller, and a small black part.  I'm not 100% on this, but I think the black part is an adapter for Magic Square's Huffer, so he can pull the trailer.  Finally, in the box Light of Justice doesn't have any smokestacks installed, so he comes with two pairs.  One is a little shorter and has an angled tip, the other longer with a flat tip.  I personally like the shorter, angled tip, and whichever you choose they simply tab into the sides of his shoulders.  I'll note here that neither set seems to stay tabbed in very well.  Although it forces me to commit to one set, I'm considering gluing mine in.

Here's a quick comparison of the opened trailers and rollers, with YotR/HS Prime's on the left and and Magic Square's on the right.  Magic Square's trailer is a little bigger and a bare gray plastic.  There's unfortunately very little detail inside, and no room for storing Light of Justice's accessories.  Plus the claw on the drone doesn't work.  While Roller can carry Light of Justice's gun, the wheels don't swivel like YotR/HS, and it doesn't have the gas pump.  YotR/HS Roller can carry Light of Justice's gun, and I thought about stashing LoJ's Roller and replacing it with YotR/HS before realizing that I'm probably going to stash the entire trailer and it ultimately didn't matter.

Light of Justice's on a hinged swivel, so he can look up and down a reasonable amount and turn his head but he doesn't have any sideways tilt.  His shoulders rotate and extend out from his torso to get about 60 degrees of lateral motion and a little backwards butterfly.  His biceps swivel, and he's got a double-jointed elbow that curls almost all the way to his shoulder.  His wrists are simply pegged on, and can swivel on their peg.  He can swivel at the waist, and like his larger sibling he has a very good ab crunch but it breaks the sculpt.  His hip skirts are hinged, although as noted the front is a single piece, to reveal ball-jointed hips that can move forward and backward about 60-75 degrees and laterally 90 degrees.  His thighs swivel, and he's got double-jointed knees that bend about 60-75 degrees.  His feet can tilt up and down a little, with some extra bend at the toes, plus he's got 90 degrees of ankle pivot.

Either the default hands or the closed hands can hold his ion rifle.  To swap hands, or to use his axe, you simply pull out the installed and and peg in a different hand/axe.  Only the closed hands can remain attached for transformation, though.

Oh, and I forgot to mention it with the accessories, but you can open his chest and there is a little Matrix in there.  Unlike other larger versions there's nothing grabbing the Matrix or its handles.  Instead, there's actually a little tab on the bottom of the Matrix that fits into a slot in Prime's chest.  Due to how the inside of Prime's chest transforms into part of the truck's bumper though, you have to remove it and set it aside for transformation.

OK, diecast and paint or not, YotR/HS Prime looked bad on its own in truck mode, but it looks absolutely terrible next to Light of Justice, because again Light of Justice is extremely similar to Light of Freedom.  Again we have the simplified smokestacks, the solid windows, and the lack of chrome.  The other major difference is that, due to the arm transformation being a little simplified, there's no cab doors and wing mirrors, so the spot where the side windows would be is just red.  Very forgivable at this scale.  I'm impressed that the leg transformation is actually the same as the larger version.  The only minor difference is that you don't flip around the vents on his shins (which didn't seem to serve a point on the larger figure anyway).  I was a little concerned that applying that sort of engineering to a figure this small might make him a little fiddly, but aside from the smokestacks falling out I really didn't have any issues.

The trailer is a real case of one step forward, two steps back.  The step forward, of course, is that he comes with a trailer.  It helps complete the alt mode look, even if it'll sit in my closet while Light of Justice is in robot mode 90% of the time.  It's a feature that's missing from the MP-scaled Light of Freedom, which isn't even compatible with MP-10's trailer.  And sure, it might not have dedicated storage spots for accessories like YotR/HS, but there's nothing stopping you from tossing those hands, axe, smokestacks, and Matrix in the small plastic bag they came in inside the box and tossing that whole thing back into the trailer.  Steps back, well, even though it comes with this figure and is for this figure it doesn't actually connect to Light of Justice.  There's a small nub of a peg on the underside of the trailer, but nowhere to plug it into Light of Justice.  You just kind of set it on and pretend.

So, yeah, there are a few things I wish were different with this figure.  And I don't have figures like Dutch, Sky Pillar, or Generation Toys' build-a-figure Prime to compare Light of Justice with, so it's possible that you might like one of them better.  However, I said before when checked out Magic Square's Blaster and Sideswipe that I feel like Magic Square's Legends figures are like tiny MPs.  Nothing exemplifies this better than taking their MP-esque Light of Freedom and scaling it down.  Even with the few simplifications Magic Square had to do to pull that feat off you're still getting the same proportions, 99% of the aesthetic, and 90% of the articulation and engineering.  If you're building a Legends-scale collection then this is a fantastic choice for Prime that I strongly recommend.  And even if you're not, this mini masterpiece is a perfect bite-sized Prime for leaving on your desk at work.

Edited January 18, 2020 by mikeszekely

[mikeszekely]

9 minutes ago, nhyone said:

While many people think Hasbro is tolerating the presence of 3P, I don't share that view. Cross the line, Hasbro will come after you faster than you can transform your 3P figure.

Clearly over the line: trademark and counterfeit

At the line: KO and stuff that resembles their physical products

Not that close to the line: 3P G1 stuff (IP violation)

Thing is, it's not exactly Hasbro deciding where the line is.  Trademark violation is over the line because it's the easiest prove in court.  Likewise, companies that make KOs get shut down from time to time because it's fairly easy to prove that it's a counterfeit of their design, although China is apparently more tolerant of KOs that change the scale, and shutting down KO companies can be a waste of resources anyway because crushing one just causes another one to pop up.

It's much harder for Hasbro to go after 3P, though.  While Hasbro unquestioningly owns Optimus Prime, they don't own the concept of red and blue trucks that turn into robots.  If the toy is an original design, even if it's obviously meant to be Optimus Prime, as long as the packaging doesn't including any trademark violations the burden of proof for an IP claim is much higher.  And again, this is doubly so in China where most of these 3Ps operate, to the point that Hasbro might seriously be unable to stop them.  They might be able to pressure US-based retailers like BBTS or TFSource to keep them from carrying 3P products, but buyers would likely still be able to buy from Chinese sources like eBay, Aliexpress, Taobao, or stores like TF-Direct and ShowZStore.

[Negotiator]

Planet is small but dang looks great.

[JB0]

57 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

Finally, in the box Light of Justice doesn't have any smokestacks installed, so he comes with two pairs.  One is a little shorter and has an angled tip, the other longer with a flat tip.  I personally like the shorter, angled tip, and whichever you choose they simply tab into the sides of his shoulders.  I'll note here that neither set seems to stay tabbed in very well.  Although it forces me to commit to one set, I'm considering gluing mine in.

Is there a way he can hold the smokestacks like guns? I'm assuming they missed that possibility.

 

'S a real shame that the molded details are so soft. He just looks kinda melty. (But still way better than Hybrid Convoy in truck mode. That design was always a completely irredeemable mess as a truck.)

[mikeszekely]

2 minutes ago, JB0 said:

Is there a way he can hold the smokestacks like guns? I'm assuming they missed that possibility.

Not that I can see.  Maybe impromptu clubs, although the fit is pretty loose.

Also, just my two cents, but maybe the truck details look soft because of the close-in nature of my pictures?  I mean, they're not as sharp as MP-10's, but not much worse than the larger Light of Freedom and better than TE-01, IMO.

[nightmareB4macross]

4 hours ago, anime52k8 said:

Wow. that is some really interesting origami going on there.

Hot damn.  They get my money!

[nhyone]

1 hour ago, mikeszekely said:

Thing is, it's not exactly Hasbro deciding where the line is.

I meant legal lines, of course.

Didn't a toy shop use "Optimus Prime" to describe Toy World's figure recently and Hasbro send the cease-and-detest letter immediately?

Hasbro is watching -- all the time.

[JB0]

1 hour ago, mikeszekely said:

Not that I can see.  Maybe impromptu clubs, although the fit is pretty loose.

Awww... no Go-Bots Stacks action, then.

What's even the point of removable exhausts if you can't use them as guns?

1 hour ago, mikeszekely said:

Also, just my two cents, but maybe the truck details look soft because of the close-in nature of my pictures?  I mean, they're not as sharp as MP-10's, but not much worse than the larger Light of Freedom and better than TE-01, IMO.

Possibly.

Edited September 8, 2019 by JB0

[nhyone]

13 minutes ago, JB0 said:

What's even the point of removable exhausts if you can't use them as guns?

There's a choice of two lengths.

[David Hingtgen]

I basically asked this over at TFW2005, but will happily solicit input here:

Long story short---I want a "toy-esque" Megatron.  Silver, with red inner legs.   MP-36 isn't that at all.  MP-36+ is actually TOO toy-accurate, and $$$$.  The only silvery KO's are THF, and MagTen.  MagTen seems to have among the lowest quality of the KO's, has pre-printed insignia (of a style I don't like), and the face is like, "cream" colored.  It's got as many pluses as minuses. 

THF, seems to be one of the higher-quality KO's, I can choose my preferred insignia style, and it has a properly grey gace.  And is currently less than $60 shipped, a good chunk less than the MagTen.  But---it's only "kinda silvery" and not SILVER.  And has minimal red.  

I'm leaning towards THF, and painting the inner legs myself, but am concerned about paint scraping during transforming, etc.  Do the lower legs just peg together left/right?  Do they come apart easily?  That's my main concern---having to insert a fingernail etc into the seams, and scraping off the paint near the edges while trying to "pry the lower legs apart, while in gun mode".  

A concern of mine is "being nice and straight in alt-mode".  The IF one seems to be the best at that, it's dead-straight when pegged together, but is currently the rarest/priciest of the KO's, and appears to be utterly dead-flat grey, even duller than the actual Takara.   So that's a deal-killer.  So, is THF the "second-straightest" one?  (droopy barrels are so common on this mold, and just kills how it looks)  

[mikeszekely]

Silver body with red inner legs, you say?

But then, I've never been a fan of MP-36.  Cartoon accurate or not, I think it's got a big head, skinny legs, and too high a waist.

[David Hingtgen]

38 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

Silver body with red inner legs, you say?

But then, I've never been a fan of MP-36.  Cartoon accurate or not, I think it's got a big head, skinny legs, and too high a waist.

Did you read the rest of my post?  It's basically saying "why that one's not an option, unless I can be convinced otherwise". 

In short---I won't put up with its myriad of other little issues (and increased cost), just for my preferred overall coloring.  (which, coming from me, is saying a lot) 

[tekering]

Despotron, Apollyn, Mightron, MP-36, MP-36+, MagTen, THF, IF...  Talk about being spoiled for choice!  

And to think, just a scant four years ago, this was as close as we got to a G1 Megatron at Masterpiece scale:

What a time to be a collector!  

[M'Kyuun]

It truly is.

And speaking of choice, having watched the Zeta Unicron transformation, that's the kind of engineering I wish Has/Tak had employed with their version. While I still prefer the detail work of the Has/Tak, the cleanliness of Zeta's is fantastic. Nice to know that there's an option if the official fails to secure backing, although I imagine they'll just keep pushing the deadline out until they reach 8000. Kinda wish I'd stalled on backing, now.   

A point of concern with the Zeta is the amount of force necessary to untab the legs from planet mode- that guy is exerting a scary amount of effort, especially for a test shot. But the way they form the sides of the planet is just fantastic, along with all the other folding bits. 

If the Hasbro ultimately fails, this will be on my buy list for sure. On the final fix wish-list, I'd hope to see the belly panel outfitted with translucent plastic abs and the outer ring extended farther from the planet surface. As a test shot, some floppiness is to be expected, and hopefully all the loose joints, especially his jaw, will be toleranced well on the final.

[JB0]

1 hour ago, tekering said:

Despotron, Apollyn, Mightron, MP-36, MP-36+, MagTen, THF, IF...  Talk about being spoiled for choice!  

And to think, just a scant four years ago, this was as close as we got to a G1 Megatron at Masterpiece scale:

...

What a time to be a collector!  

Aren't you forgetting something?

MP Megatron first came out over a decade ago, though it might be a bit TOO original-inspired with those legs.

 

Maybe in a few more years we'll have a third MP Megatron and we can forget that MP-36 ever happened, too. (And the sooner, the better.)

[tekering]

6 minutes ago, JB0 said:

Aren't you forgetting something?

MP Megatron first came out over a decade ago, though it might be a bit TOO original-inspired with those legs.

Proportions aside, the size alone puts MP-5 out of the running.

10 minutes ago, JB0 said:

Maybe in a few more years we'll have a third MP Megatron and we can forget that MP-36 ever happened, too. (And the sooner, the better.)

Why all the hate for MP-36, all of a sudden?  If it weren't such a popular toy, there wouldn't be so many KO variations, would there?

Mine just needed a little paint and a sticker...

Now he's perfect.  

[nhyone]

1 hour ago, tekering said:

Why all the hate for MP-36, all of a sudden?

It has always been there.

Even on day one:

- its high price

- its unfinished back

- its foreshortened upper body

[JB0]

1 hour ago, tekering said:

Why all the hate for MP-36, all of a sudden?  If it weren't such a popular toy, there wouldn't be so many KO variations, would there?

Not sudden. I've never liked MP-36.

He's a big mess of hundreds of panels, and the transformation is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too complex. That alone makes him awful in my book.

And after all that work, he doesn't even make a good gun, which is just icing on the cake. A transformation that complex, at least if both modes are good you have a REASON for the complexity. But if one mode is terrible, you just have to ask what it gained. I don't really like Optimus 3's engineering, but I see where the payoff is and can understand why they went in the direction they did. Megatron 2 is just complex for the sake of being complex.

 

 

I DID forget that the MPs all got smaller with Optimus 2, so "MP scale" excludes the first few MPs.

[mikeszekely]

6 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

Did you read the rest of my post?  It's basically saying "why that one's not an option, unless I can be convinced otherwise". 

In short---I won't put up with its myriad of other little issues (and increased cost), just for my preferred overall coloring.  (which, coming from me, is saying a lot) 

I did, and after this post I even re-read it. You lay out your case against the official and other KO's of MP-36, then expresses a concern you have regarding the THF KO. I didn't read anything in your post disqualifying Despotron (who, sure, is more expensive than THF's KO, but still hovering around $100 and still one of the less expensive options).

[tekering]

3 hours ago, JB0 said:

He's a big mess of hundreds of panels, and the transformation is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too complex. That alone makes him awful in my book.

Fair enough...  I've never even bothered transforming mine.  I have absolutely no use for a transformable Walther P38 replica, and its accuracy can't hold a candle to the Walther P38 BB guns I have.

3 hours ago, JB0 said:

I DID forget that the MPs all got smaller with Optimus 2, so "MP scale" excludes the first few MPs.

I think it's a common fallacy to assume MP-10 established a new scale, when it fact it was MP-3, Kawamori's Masterpiece Starscream, that established the current scale.  Sure, MP-5 (Megatron) and MP-8 (Grimlock) were outliers, but MP-9 (Rodimus Prime) was consistent with the Seeker scale, and MP-10 (Convoy) was designed to be equal in height to Rodimus, as the ubiquitous handshake image constantly reminded us:

Thus, MP-10 was merely following an already-established scale, not setting a trend.

[anime52k8]

9 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

I'm leaning towards THF, and painting the inner legs myself, but am concerned about paint scraping during transforming, etc.  Do the lower legs just peg together left/right?  Do they come apart easily?  That's my main concern---having to insert a fingernail etc into the seams, and scraping off the paint near the edges while trying to "pry the lower legs apart, while in gun mode". 

As I said I'm seriously considering the same thing. As to your concern, (not my picture, just my edits) the inner surfaces of the legs (everything in red) physically touch in gun mode but don't actually peg together. the whole thing is held together by a big peg/ socket on the front strap (blue) and a second peg you can't see on the back strap  (about where the green arrow is). It takes some effort to pry the legs apart but you don't actually have to pry on the surfaces you'd be painting.

as for how strait the gun mode is, It's kind of hard for me to say, I'll try to get a picture or two of  mine.  a  slightly loose, wobbly barrel is an issue on mine though.

Maybe I'm weird, but I love this MP-36 mold. for me he's the only MP size megs that gets the head and legs right. I don't find his transformation that difficult either and I'm not even really bothered by the pack view.

Edited September 8, 2019 by anime52k8

[mikeszekely]

25 minutes ago, anime52k8 said:

Maybe I'm weird, but I love this MP-36 mold. for me he's the only MP size megs that gets the head and legs right. I don't find his transformation that difficult either and I'm not even really bothered by the pack view.

I don't think you're weird, I think you're in the majority. And I think you're right about his head and legs if you're going solely by the cartoon, which a lot of people are.

Going solely by the cartoon doesn't work for me, though. I've consumed a lot of other Transformers media, and tend to prefer MPs that are closer to an ideal than strictly animation (like a modern RX-78 kit compared to the original '79 Gundam anime). Despotron isn't perfect (his legs are a little too chunky), but for me he's a lot closer than MP-36. But that's precisely why it's great to have all these options, we're free to go for the version that works the best for our own tastes.

[captain america]

9 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

It truly is.

And speaking of choice, having watched the Zeta Unicron transformation, that's the kind of engineering I wish Has/Tak had employed with their version. While I still prefer the detail work of the Has/Tak, the cleanliness of Zeta's is fantastic. Nice to know that there's an option if the official fails to secure backing, although I imagine they'll just keep pushing the deadline out until they reach 8000. Kinda wish I'd stalled on backing, now.   

A point of concern with the Zeta is the amount of force necessary to untab the legs from planet mode- that guy is exerting a scary amount of effort, especially for a test shot. But the way they form the sides of the planet is just fantastic, along with all the other folding bits. 

If the Hasbro ultimately fails, this will be on my buy list for sure. On the final fix wish-list, I'd hope to see the belly panel outfitted with translucent plastic abs and the outer ring extended farther from the planet surface. As a test shot, some floppiness is to be expected, and hopefully all the loose joints, especially his jaw, will be toleranced well on the final.

Neither Haslab's nor Zeta's transformation is without its drawbacks, it's just a matter of what compromises you're willing to live with.

Looking at the back of the planet on the Haslab, you have a large orange depression and spikes all along the equator, which is accurate. On Zeta's, the equator line is the robot's crotch, which should be blue-grey. Also on Zeta's figure, the four single-cratered panels that flank the vertical leg panels on both sides and to the immediate North and South of the equator are the robot's hip armor, both front and back. Those panels are light gray/silver with blue-grey craters in robot mode, so just with that, you can see that there will be "deco chalenges" to put it as politely as possible. 

If you look at the flanks of the Zeta planet mode, the area where the rings attach, there should be an orange circle there too, albeit smaller than the one on the back. The panels both north and south of the equator, and the equator band itself make up the shoulders and forearm armor: all orange in robot mode, but mostly blue-grey with some orange splotches in planet mode. Zeta's planet mode is already compromised in terms of shapes, but now ask yourself which mode you want to sacrifice for an accurate paint scheme, because you won't get both!

Also, if the Haslab crowdfund fails, there's the real possibility that we'll get neither. Several people on the TFW forums have flatly stated that they cancelled their Haslab preorder when they saw the Zeta figure, and the crowdfunding counter did reflect that. There remains the very real possibility that if several millions of dollars in revenue suddenly goes up in smoke because they couldn't get their 8000 units funded, Hasbro will look to Zeta and have their lawyers make a case for either infringement or tortious interference, and possibly both.

Edited September 8, 2019 by captain america

[Dobber]

17 hours ago, anime52k8 said:

Wow. that is some really interesting origami going on there.

Holy cow! That is amazing! Incredible engineering. So glad to be wrong!

Chris

[M'Kyuun]

31 minutes ago, captain america said:

Neither Haslab's nor Zeta's transformation is without its drawbacks, it's just a matter of what compromises you're willing to live with.

Looking at the back of the planet on the Haslab, you have a large orange depression and spikes all along the equator, which is accurate. On Zeta's, the equator line is the robot's crotch, which should be blue-grey. Also on Zeta's figure, the four single-cratered panels that flank the vertical leg panels on both sides and to the immediate North and South of the equator are the robot's hip armor, both front and back. Those panels are light gray/silver with blue-grey craters in robot mode, so just with that, you can see that there will be "deco chalenges" to put it as politely as possible. 

If you look at the flanks of the Zeta planet mode, the area where the rings attach, there should be an orange circle there too, albeit smaller than the one on the back. The panels both north and south of the equator, and the equator band itself make up the shoulders and forearm armor: all orange in robot mode, but mostly blue-grey with some orange splotches in planet mode. Zeta's planet mode is already compromised in terms of shapes, but now ask yourself which mode you want to sacrifice for an accurate paint scheme, because you won't get both!

It's only when you take the time to study both designs carefully that you start to understand why Haslab chose to do what they did. This isn't to say that there isn't room for improvement, but at the end of the day these are still toys, and there will always be trade-offs. 

I think, just by design, and by virtue of anime magic, Unicron is always going to be a difficult figure to realize in a transforming toy without losing fidelity in one mode or the other. I appreciate the comparison shot, as it highlights the two very different approaches taken, as well as what was prioritized. Although I've already backed the Haslab project, my own preference skews more towards the better engineering of the Zeta for their ingenious transformation mechanics and virtually kibble-free robot mode. IMHO, Zeta's concession of eschewing anime accuracy on the planet mode's backside was a fair trade for the final result, as I would likely never display him with the backside out front anyway. I can understand where it might be an issue for those with a fully walk-around display, in which case, if planet mode is the desired display mode, then Hasbro's definitely the way to go. For my preferences, Zeta's planet mode does a passable job, and more than likely, I'd have him in robot mode most of the time, as is my wont. The coloration differences you pointed out, Captain America, are certainly of concern, and something I hadn't previously given consideration; those paint differences, dictated by the transformation, could really throw off the look of the planet mode, and I hope that's something that the Zeta folks took into account when designing this thing. It's possible that those hip skirts, in particular, are double sided and can rotate 180 degrees to provide the proper deco. I wasn't paying attention to that aspect when watching the vid, so I may have to go back and watch it again. 

Harkening to the Megatron discussion, I'm in the favorable camp regarding MP-36, although I'll concede it 's not without its flaws. If I had my druthers, they would have eschewed all the origami involved in forming the upper torso and made his slide/chest a single piece while engineering the arms to swing around into position, much as X-Transbots did with Apollyon. I think the legs are really the standout bit of engineering on the figure, and had Hasui had more time and insight to design MP-5, utilizing MP-36's solution, it would have been a far better received, and certainly a far better proportioned, figure. Presently, I still like the looks of MP-36, short of the chest area, as it makes for a striking looking fig with impressive articulation. His gun mode, as everyone knows, is replete with panel lines that do nothing to hide the fact that it transforms. It's a concession, and like me, I doubt the majority of MP-36 owners keep their figure in gun mode, or even transform it, very often. I think Takara made that assumption as well, and the alt mode become a lesser priority. Still, it does transform, and from a distance forms a reasonably realistic facsimile of a Walther P-38, which is all I require. As to third party MP Megs, I still think Despotron and Apollyon are the two top contenders, and while I own the latter, I don't have the former but may pick one up if I ever see a good sale.

[anime52k8]

36 minutes ago, captain america said:

 There remains the very real possibility that if several millions of dollars in revenue suddenly goes up in smoke because they couldn't get their 8000 units funded, Hasbro will look to Zeta and have their lawyers make a case for either infringement or tortious interference, and possibly both.

I feel like there isn't really that much of a possibility of this happening. I Just don't think it's realistic that Hasbro is going to sink actual money into legal action for no benefit to them purely out of spite over a failed crowdfunding drive. It's not even much of a lose if this project fails. You're talking about less than 0.1% of Hasbro's FY2018 revenue here.

[anime52k8]

BTW, Here's my Dynastron in gun mode. Make of the fit what you will. https://imgur.com/a/8qg2vOa

[captain america]

58 minutes ago, anime52k8 said:

I feel like there isn't really that much of a possibility of this happening. I Just don't think it's realistic that Hasbro is going to sink actual money into legal action for no benefit to them purely out of spite over a failed crowdfunding drive. It's not even much of a lose if this project fails. You're talking about less than 0.1% of Hasbro's FY2018 revenue here.

What you feel is irrelevant, and so is spite. If they become knowledgeable of an infringement, they must act to defend their IP or risk losing it entirely. It doesn't have to manifest as a full-blown lawsuit, something as simple as having an attorney serve the infringing party with a C & D will get the ball rolling, and they only need to apply as much pressure as is needed to get the other party to back down; not an ounce more.

Most 3P are happy to produce figures that aren't in direct competition with official product, nor have they been brazen enough, at least until recently, to market head-to-head with HasTak. That might have been their saving grace.

My point is that the more brazen 3P becomes, the greater the chances that they will cross a line that will open the door to them getting legally smashed, and potentially changing the market landscape in a way that will NOT be to the average fans and collectors' benefit.

[JB0]

16 hours ago, tekering said:

I think it's a common fallacy to assume MP-10 established a new scale, when it fact it was MP-3, Kawamori's Masterpiece Starscream, that established the current scale.  Sure, MP-5 (Megatron) and MP-8 (Grimlock) were outliers, but MP-9 (Rodimus Prime) was consistent with the Seeker scale, and MP-10 (Convoy) was designed to be equal in height to Rodimus, as the ubiquitous handshake image constantly reminded us:

Point conceded.

I did get the impression that Optimus 2 was the beginning of a conscious effort to set a definitive MP scale, instead of the more traditional approach to scale(or lack thereof) within a line of Transformers.