The Unlicensed Third Party Transformers Thread

[mikeszekely]

51 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

While I'm not in the market for these guys, I am pretty impressed by the engineering brought to bear to make this figure an all-in-one transformation, which is something I adore in a tractor-trailer transformation.

I adore it in a Motormaster, at least.  I've been picking up XTB's Stunticons so far, and they'll probably end up being my combined-mode Menasor, but I've hated from day one how Gravestone (their Motormaster) is just the cab (same goes for CW Motormaster, and even pretty much every other Motormaster like Fansproject or TFM is the cab plus a portion of the trailer at best).  I've been intrigued with Roadking since FT first showed off a robot a head taller than MP-10 that turns into an MP-10-sized truck and the entire trailer.  Of course, given FT's track record of late, I was also expecting it to be a nightmare to transform.  Based on the reviews I'm seeing, though, lining up the trailer panels isn't exactly fun but it's otherwise fairly straightforward.  As a fan of Motormaster since my youth (he was like an evil counterpart to Optimus before Nemesis Prime was a thing), I caved today and ordered Roadking from ShowZstore.  I can't say that I'm interested in the other four, as I'm pretty happy with XTB's, but Roadking looks more like what I'd want in an MP Motormaster than Gravestone (and who even knows what's going on with DX9's at this point).

So expect a review here soon (ish... ShowZ is good, but it's still coming from China).

[M'Kyuun]

I see your point, as from a toy perspective, Ultra Magnus was always a basically a white Optimus with a suit of armor made from his trailer. Motormaster, OTOH, from the beginning was all-in-one, so I'm glad that at least FT put in the engineering to make it so. I've only watched Skullface's review, but it sounds like there are two camps: one that likes the all-in-one, and one that wants the cab to become Motormaster while the trailer becomes Menasor's body.  Given my druthers, I will always take the all-in-one transformation if it's done well. To my eye, it looks like FT nailed it. I'm curious if they're going to make the rest of the Stunticons become the limbs, or , as seems to be the latest combiner trend, just have them attach to pre-existing limbs, as if they're being worn rather than actually forming the limbs. I'm not at all a fan of that trend- a combiner should be just that, with every member forming a distinct body part. Anyway, Bobby didn't discuss the combiner mode at all, and I've yet to watch any other reviews, so I'm not sure how that'll work. Guess I'll stand by for your review, Mike. Hopefully it'll show up soon and prove to be a good figure.

[JB0]

19 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

from a toy perspective, Ultra Magnus was always a basically a white Optimus with a suit of armor made from his trailer. Motormaster, OTOH, from the beginning was all-in-one

I still maintain they should adopt a Motormaster-style transformation for Optimus Prime. No one wants to ship him with a trailer, the trailer is viewed as a giant waste of space for people displaying him in humanoid mode, but the truck without the trailer is just fundamentally WRONG.

 

Ironically, they keep doing this with Magnus, and sometimes with Powermaster Prime, both of whom really SHOULD have a separate trailer, but never with regular Optimus.

They're just too hung up on the legs HAVING to become the trailer hitch just like the original toy, while happily making the rest of the truck a ball of plastic shrapnel that turns inside out, with separate grills and windshields for both modes.  When the only part of the truck that actually exists on the robot mode IS the trailer hitch legs, you start wondering why they're making this stand.

[Scyla]

Is there any engineering on FTs Roadking that can be used for the combined mode?

I tried to look for it in the two reviews I have watched but couldn‘t spot it.

maybe the four limb bots come with some Menasor BAF parts. 

[nhyone]

5 hours ago, Scyla said:

I tried to look for it in the two reviews I have watched but couldn‘t spot it.

No one knows how it is done. But FansToys has subverted our expectations. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by nhyone

[M'Kyuun]

12 hours ago, JB0 said:

I still maintain they should adopt a Motormaster-style transformation for Optimus Prime. No one wants to ship him with a trailer, the trailer is viewed as a giant waste of space for people displaying him in humanoid mode, but the truck without the trailer is just fundamentally WRONG.

 

Ironically, they keep doing this with Magnus, and sometimes with Powermaster Prime, both of whom really SHOULD have a separate trailer, but never with regular Optimus.

They're just too hung up on the legs HAVING to become the trailer hitch just like the original toy, while happily making the rest of the truck a ball of plastic shrapnel that turns inside out, with separate grills and windshields for both modes.  When the only part of the truck that actually exists on the robot mode IS the trailer hitch legs, you start wondering why they're making this stand.

Back in late '83 or early '84 when the first teasers for the Transformers series started airing, I thought Optimus was all-in-one, and that just spiked my interest. Been a fan of all-in-one tractor-trailer transformations ever since, rare though they are. Subsequently, discovering that OP was just the cab and his trailer always just disappeared into the ether when he transformed was really disappointing.  I think it was later that I discovered Gobots Road Ranger, and though I never had the figure, I had a picture of him from somewhere (probably the Sears or JC Penny catalogs-ah, nostalgia), and that sparked my enthusiasm greatly. I ended up building my own all-in-one transforming tractor trailer in my late teens with LEGO, and though it had some partsforming elements (two shell like 'wings' which would insert into the legs, which would separate on sliding mechanisms to enable their insertion. The legs formed a tanker with a hexagonal cross-section, and the upper body formed the cab). It worked well, but unfortunately, it fell apart over the years. Even more unfortunate is that I never took any pics of it. I've never been much of a photographer, but I'm better about it now since I started attending LEGO conventions. Still, for my own enjoyment, I wish I'd snapped a few pics of that thing. 

And , yeah, the different grills and windshields is something that kinda boggles my mind. I guess I can see why the legs are always the hitch section, as you'd have even more crazy juxtapositioning of truck parts if the legs somehow became the cab and the torso became the hitch area on an Optimus figure. It make sense, at least to me, to maintain that basic bit of the G1 design. Alternate parts for different modes are unnecessary, IMHO. That's something else I like about MS-01- no substitutions were made- the truck grill rotates 180 degrees, and the center section of the bumper is his Matrix chamber, which also rotates 180 depending on mode. It's a sublime, simple, and effective engineering design. Alas, mode-favoring substitution parts are trending, so I doubt we'll see the end of their use any time soon. C'est la vie in the world of Transformers.

[Tking22]

After a fairly healthy wait, TF-Direct finally informed me my second head for TE-01 is officially on the way. Awesome. TE-01 will be somehow even better once I slap that new head on. Anyone else that was a first batch buyer, contact who you purchased from, it appears the stand alone heads are officially in the wild.

[tekering]

Welcome, Saltus.

[tekering]

[mikeszekely]

11 hours ago, tekering said:

Welcome, Saltus.

Saltus is a figure that's been on my radar, but I'm not sure that I'm ready to pull the trigger.  The sculpt and materials are certainly better than Big Spring, but some of Saltus' other advantages over the other Springers are the same advantages Big Spring already delivered, like an intuitive transformation and a car mode that actually looks like... well, not really a car, but at least some kind of ground vehicle and not a half-transformed helicopter.  Actually, speaking of helicopters, I kind of like Big Spring's copter mode better.  Saltus' tail looks too thin and small.

I guess the real question that's holding me back is how XTB's Virtus is going to turn out.  Car mode's kind of iffy there, although fairly cartoon accurate, the bot mode looks strong, and the copter could be my favorite.  If the engineering and QC are up to snuff I might like it better than Saltus.  So, yeah, I'd like to replace Big Spring, but I don't want to replace the replacement.

Ironically, while I'm not sure I want to spend $130 to upgrade a $60 figure, I can say that if I'd gone with Apache I'd definitely be listing him on TFW's B/S/T board.  Saltus looks in pretty much every mode, has better articulation, and isn't a PITA to transform.

[tekering]

I agree, the upcoming "Virtus" looks like a viable alternative to "Saltus," but "Big Spring" is clearly inferior... although certainly better than "Allen" or "Apache."  

[ . . . ]

This is getting ridiculous.  I still can't believe the third-party market can survive this level of competition.  

[JB0]

In the other corner, with characters that aren't spoiled for choice...

Behold, Big Bird!

 

This came in the mail monday, and I'm pleased as punch.

 

I kinda think it was appropriate to sell this as two different toys, even though no one really wanted one without the other. It really feels like Magna(the lynx), and Inventa(the shuttle) were built by two different teams. Lynx is built of thick plastics, and all four feet are big chunks of metal(with some toe articulation I'm not using right there). Shuttle is made of thinner plastics, with almost no metal to speak of.  In fact, Lynx actually weights more than Shuttle, despite being significantly smaller.

Granted, the shuttle actually needs to be lighter, because it is a lot more likely to be held overhead as the owner swings their arm through the air making whooshing sounds, no matter how many people claim they don't do that.  You don't buy Transformers™ converting robot toys because you are a mature adult, all I'm saying.

...

But it also seems like the team working on Inventa got 90% done and called it a day. I have OPINIONS about the engineering around the rocket motor cluster. Especially how the area the tail has to fold through isn't actually wide enough to do this, and they knew it. So they put a note in the instructions that says "take care to wiggle tail past thruster assembly", which seems to translate to  "yeah, this panel is going to flex a good bit while you're snaking the tail out so have fun with that".

 

The pack-in comic bears mentioning for a single blooper. I assume MMC publishes these to further the thin illusion that their toys are original creations and any resemblance to any trademarked Hasbro/TakaraTomy properties is purely coincidental. This falls flat on its face when they accidentally call the legally-distinct robots' homeworld "Cybertron" in the first panel on the first page. I laughed.

 

 

 

I'll try to get some more pictures, and maybe a "proper review", in the next couple days. 

[RavenHawk]

8 hours ago, JB0 said:

The pack-in comic bears mentioning for a single blooper. I assume MMC publishes these to further the thin illusion that their toys are original creations and any resemblance to any trademarked Hasbro/TakaraTomy properties is purely coincidental.

I think it's funny that you point this out, since this has been something that has gotten my attention on some of the 3P toys that I've picked up over the years. A handful of them (Perfect Effect, if I'm remembering correctly, though I may not be) have at times added in comics that I think slightly strengthen potential arguments for being genuinely original works... while others that I have seen really just seem to be stoking the infringement fires.

[Lexomatic]

17 hours ago, JB0 said:

when they accidentally call the legally-distinct robots' homeworld "Cybertron" in the first panel on the first page.

"Greetings, local sophont! We are members of Symbol Table Entry One, engaged in armed conflict with members of Symbol Table Entry Two, with whom we have a long-standing disagreement over the political organization of our homeworld, Symbol Table Entry Three."

"Symbol table ...? Forget it. If you lot can't be arsed to come up with sensible names, I'll just call you Simwunnites and Simtoonians. That copacetic with you?"

"This entire mode of communication, with the linear packaging of concepts and emotional modulations, delivered through narrow-band vibrations in a gaseous fluid medium, is arbitrary to us. So, yes."

Tune in next time for thrilling adventure with the altruistic Simwunnites versus the self-aggrandizing Simtoonians! On "The Combative Space-Aliens Who Intriguingly Change Shape".

[M'Kyuun]

Tekering, what are your impressions of Saltus? I held off on getting a PO for this guy until reviews came out, and as of this writing, I can't find any. Anyway, this has been my choice for a MP Springer for some time; if it's solid, I'm getting him. Be interested in hearing your initial impressions.

[mikeszekely]

59 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

Tekering, what are your impressions of Saltus? I held off on getting a PO for this guy until reviews came out, and as of this writing, I can't find any. Anyway, this has been my choice for a MP Springer for some time; if it's solid, I'm getting him. Be interested in hearing your initial impressions.

From what I'm hearing, unless you're like me and holding off to see how XTB's Virtus turns out, you should definitely get him.  I'm hearing fantastic articulation, great sculpt, excellent materials, and an intuitive transformation.  The worst I'm hearing is that you might want to take a screwdriver and tighten his ankles, or a few people saying they still like Apache's robot mode better.

[M'Kyuun]

Thanks, Mike! That's some promising sentiment. I only became aware of Virtus through your previous post, so I took a look at some promo shots, most of which looked like renders to me, but good ones nonetheless. XTB stayed truer to the toy and animation design for the car mode, which I don't care for. If you're in for a faithful version of the G1, then I think XTB is the best contender, as it looks really balanced through all three modes. FT's looked too long and skinny in its canon car mode. In terms of bot modes, I haven't really seen one that stood out to me as just bad. I'm sure there are differences in articulation levels and such, but with a casual look, they all look like Springer to me. For me, the non-canonically flared rear fenders give Saltus' car mode a much needed upgrade. Saltus' helo mode is the weaker of the two alt modes, IMHO, but still does the job. I like how seamlessly the tail boom folds to form the inner leg- MMC do a lot of neat design work like that, which is probably why I have more of their stuff than any other third party. I've long shared my admiration for Alex Kubalsky's work when he worked for Takara, and I'm happy that his work with Transformers continues through MMC and Ocular Max. Anyway, I may hold out for a video review by one of the major reviewers just for a nice in-depth look at the figure, good, bad, and otherwise, before throwing some cash down. This has really been the only contender in my mind, for my preferences, for quite some time, so a good look and a good word will seal the deal.

 

[tekering]

13 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Tekering, what are your impressions of Saltus?

He's one of the most high-end figures I own...  The heft, the tolerances, the fit and finish are all top-notch.

This is the Springer I've been waiting 33 years for.  

8 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

Saltus' helo mode is the weaker of the two alt modes, IMHO, but still does the job.

I appreciate the accuracy of the helicopter more, myself... although those tires roll really smooth in car mode.  

12 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

The worst I'm hearing is that you might want to take a screwdriver and tighten his ankles, or a few people saying they still like Apache's robot mode better.

I can't imagine that... my figure has very tight ankles, and "Apache's" shoulders are clearly inferior.  

[mikeszekely]

44 minutes ago, tekering said:

I can't imagine that... my figure has very tight ankles, and "Apache's" shoulders are clearly inferior.  

It's anecdotal. I haven't had a chance to personally handle Saltus. He (and maybe FT's Dinobots) makes me wish I hung with Bobby Skullface's crowd. I swear more than half of his reviews come from stuff people loan him. Me, if I reviewed it I bought it myself, and even if I did decide I want Saltus I can't swing it this month.

[mikeszekely]

Heads up, it looks like a reissue of Fans Toys' Phoenix is coming.  Most of the US etailers have preorders up now.  If you missed out before, now's your chance.  Feel free to read up on my review here if you'd like, but here I'll just say that I still think Phoenix is my favorite thing Fans Toys has ever done.

Edited May 10, 2019 by mikeszekely

[M'Kyuun]

13 hours ago, tekering said:

He's one of the most high-end figures I own...  The heft, the tolerances, the fit and finish are all top-notch.

This is the Springer I've been waiting 33 years for.  

I appreciate the accuracy of the helicopter more, myself... although those tires roll really smooth in car mode.  

I can't imagine that... my figure has very tight ankles, and "Apache's" shoulders are clearly inferior.  

Great to hear, man.  That's some high praise, and I can totally relate to waiting 30ish years for a figure- FT's Dinobots, Phoenix, and Takara's MP Prowl all check that box for me. Can't believe none of the major reviewers have a review of this guy up yet. I found a silent transformation vid, as in no sound at all, not even background sounds of the toy being manipulated, on YouTube. That's it. But, the transformation is pretty smooth between modes; intuitive is an overused word, but in this case I think it's applicable. I 'm pretty sure the guy doing the vid is transforming it for the first time on camera, and he only gets hung up once figuring out some elbow bits that separate for transformation. 

As I was writing this last part I heard something thump behind me; when I turned to look, my cat had retrieved and brought upstairs to me a bag of catnip. It was gifted to my wife by a   really nice coworker, and this, as far as I know, was our cat's first introduction to the stuff. Her first hit, and I think we may have to stage an intervention.  It's dark in my man cave, so when I figured out what she dropped behind me, I couldn't stop laughing for a few minutes. Damned cat's a junky.

Back to Transmutators (b/c Transformers is an IP)  So yeah, I definitely appreciate the endorsement. I'm already a fan of MMC/Ocular Max stuff, and Saltus has been my choice for MP Springer for quite some time. I think I'll still wait for a 'talkie' review, but in my heart, I'm pretty much sold.

Glad to hear that Phoenix is getting a re-release for those folks who couldn't get him the first time around. I know a lot of folks are probably on the fence with the upcoming Siege version, but if you're a fan of Skyfire as he appeared in the cartoon, and you want something that scales well with the rest of the MP figs and just has that premium feel, fit, and finish, then I can't recommend him enough. It's about as close to perfect as you can get in a figure this size, not to mention rarity. 

[Scyla]

5 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

Heads up, it looks like a reissue of Fans Toys' Phoenix is coming.  Most of the US etailers have preorders up now.  If you missed out before, now's your chance.  Feel free to read up on my review here if you'd like, but here I'll just say that I still think Phoenix is my favorite thing Fans Toys has ever done.

I wish FT would reissue the Insecticons instead. 

[mikeszekely]

7 hours ago, Scyla said:

I wish FT would reissue the Insecticons instead. 

A lot of people do, but based on my experience with FT's, BadCube's, and MMC's the FT ones just aren't worth it. 

[Axelay]

I know that I am so deep in the minority, but I still love the Fansproject ninja-type Insecticons from years ago... I never felt motivated to replace them in my collection with anything else.

[mikeszekely]

17 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Can't believe none of the major reviewers have a review of this guy up yet

Peaugh says he should have one up this weekend.

[Lexomatic]

I haven't bought any of these third-party boutique figures, even after seeing them in person at TFcon USA 2017 -- very nicely done, but too rich for my blood (*). What I have is a spreadsheet (because I'm all about the analytics) with 500 molds and 600 characters (counting re-decos) from a dozen makers (GigaPower, Iron Factory, KFC, Planet X, etc.). What I'm really curious about is: WHO is making them, and HOW? I presume they're leveraging modern CAD/CAM and China's low-cost manufacturing expertise, honed on official Transformers and other Japanese robot toys -- but are they true amateurs, or former employees of Hasbro, Takara, Bandai, etc.? The few official websites I've found have not been particularly enlightening. Anybody aware of any interviews or designer profiles -- or are the specific personages still keeping a low profile, even if their products aren't?

(*) The Iron Factory "Wing of Tyrant" figures are particularly enticing, because I was a big fan of the scale and detail of the G2 Cyberjets in the mid-'90s -- but $30 to $45 for four inches of plastic feels wrong. FWIW, after filling my basement with LEGO bricks, I've drifted very much into the "pay for experiences, not things" camp.

[Atheonyirh]

In a few cases some of the companies have hired on former Takara or Hasbro designers, be it in-house or freelancers, to work on specific things. In general it seems to be the companies doing their own design work however.

[David Hingtgen]

I'm gonna bet this is unlicensed:

 

 

[tekering]

Awesome!  

[nhyone]

On 5/11/2019 at 11:22 AM, Lexomatic said:

What I'm really curious about is: WHO is making them, and HOW? I presume they're leveraging modern CAD/CAM and China's low-cost manufacturing expertise, honed on official Transformers and other Japanese robot toys -- but are they true amateurs, or former employees of Hasbro, Takara, Bandai, etc.?

IMO, it's doable, even if you don't have any expertise and all you have is money -- but you better have some.

First is the design.

Next is the prototype.

Followed by the molds.

And finally, creating the parts and assembling the figure.

When you break it down like that, you realize you just need to pay others (experts) to do the work. What you need to ensure is that you can make a profit or at least break even at the end.

How much does each of the steps cost? No idea. I can guess, but I have no idea how wildly away I am.

(I don't think the first two steps will cost more than $5k.)

[RavenHawk]

3 minutes ago, nhyone said:

IMO, it's doable, even if you don't have any expertise and all you have is money -- but you better have some.

First is the design.

Next is the prototype.

Followed by the molds.

And finally, creating the parts and assembling the figure.

When you break it down like that, you realize you just need to pay others (experts) to do the work. What you need to ensure is that you can make a profit or at least break even at the end.

How much does each of the steps cost? No idea. I can guess, but I have no idea how wildly away I am.

(I don't think the first two steps will cost more than $5k.)

If you're paying someone else to do it, then I think you're way off. Most designers I know run around $100/hr, and even 3d printed prototypes are a chunk of change, depending on materials. Then again, I suspect designers in China are cheaper, as are prototypes, so who knows? I'm just basing this off of industries that I'm familiar with, in the US.

[nhyone]

13 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Most designers I know run around $100/hr, and even 3d printed prototypes are a chunk of change, depending on materials.

I'm thinking more of a freelance designer, where the price is agreed upfront.

I'm guessing low-thousands for the prototype. It need not be fully functional.

[tekering]

7 minutes ago, nhyone said:

When you break it down like that, you realize you just need to pay others (experts) to do the work.

As one so-called "expert" myself, you've forgotten a few stages of the process.  Third-party manufacturers have sought my cooperation concerning:

• packaging design
• promotional text
• translation
• product photography
• retail distribution
• video reviews

[nhyone]

11 minutes ago, tekering said:

As one so-called "expert" myself, you've forgotten a few stages of the process.  Third-party manufacturers have sought my cooperation concerning:

• packaging design
• promotional text
• translation
• product photography
• retail distribution
• video reviews

Of course. I'm talking about the figure itself.

[tekering]

10 minutes ago, nhyone said:

Of course. I'm talking about the figure itself.

Well, I must've misunderstood what you meant by "the end..."  

47 minutes ago, nhyone said:

What you need to ensure is that you can make a profit or at least break even at the end.

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by tekering