The Unlicensed Third Party Transformers Thread

[Kuma Style]

[M'Kyuun]

On ‎11‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 4:58 PM, Kuma Style said:

Honestly the MagicSquare looks like MP-10 got "perfected" which really works for me but at the same time Takara always just seems to have some sort of engineering tricks and whatnot that puts them ahead of the pack so I'm waiting out.

IMHO, both TE and MS have put forward respectable figures, both of which appeal to me over the Takara due to straightforward transformation rather than shell-forming. Takara have kinda dug that hole for themselves, insofar as realistic vehicle parts with too much detail are going to have be somehow muted to preserve the overly-plain bot modes to satisfy their toon likenesses. That's not for me. Moving on, I like the truck modes of TE and MS over V3, as well, so it comes down to which third party Optimus looks the most Optimus to my eye, and the Magic Square edges out TE in bot mode, mostly due to the look of the hip skirts. It's a small thing, but how many of us choose one thing over another over a niggle or two? 

The one point you made in which I will agree completely is that, like the V3 design or not, Takara is going to involve some very complex and interesting engineering in this figure. Looking forward to reviews just to see all those "tricks and whatnot". 

Always enjoy your showcasing those Iron Factory figures, Kuma. They look like a lot of fun to mess with, and your photos are always top-notch. Cheers!

[Kuma Style]

Man over the past week or so I've bought so many 3P classic TFs that it isn't even funny. 

- Third FP Steelcore
- Second MT Quantron
- Third MT Battle Sentinel
- Second MT Striker Noir
- MT Pandinus
- MT Utopia
- MT Giant Type 61

Feels extremely good to be caught back up on all of my seller's regret stuff.
 

 

[tekering]

LS-05 has arrived.

Beefy and imposing, he is.

Photographs well with MetaColle figures.

I'm not too fond of the face, though...

Is this what AOE Grimlock was supposed to look like?

3 hours ago, Kuma Style said:

Feels extremely good to be caught back up on all of my seller's regret stuff.

Congratulations, TJ!  

I never sell anything myself... which comes with regrets of its own.  

[slaginpit]

Glorious.Nice Pics.I know see he is more full of green wash instead of silver wash which is what I would prefer. Im holding out to see what the WeiJiang offering is like

[Kuma Style]

12 hours ago, tekering said:

 

Congratulations, TJ!  

I never sell anything myself... which comes with regrets of its own.  

Yea... I don't sell my mecha/high-end stuff but with Transformers between space and figuring out the stuff that really fits in with the majority of my collection I've went back and forth and it seems like the FP/MT classics stylings are where my heart lays. It was a son of a b finding deals on these pieces, though... and of course I found them literally all at once so I guess this is officially my Xmas gift to me.

... That Grimlock is so damned HUGE btw.

-------------------------------------------

 

The full review for Fans Hobby's MB-06A Purple Power Baser is up! http://kumastyledesigns.com/fans-hobby-purple-power-baser-review/

Since this is direct repaint of MB-06A Black Power Baser I kept this article pretty short and sweet. Overall it's a great deco of what I feel is one of the best 3P TFs to release in the past two years. Here are some pics from the gallery portion:

 

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Kuma Style

[mikeszekely]

After getting Unique Toys' Challenger, I think I said something about being curious about Peru Kill, their Lockdown.  I never bought him because I'm not really interested in building a collection of MP movie figures.  However, not one but two companies have or will release KOs of Peru Kill (with rumors that one of the KO companies is or has ties to UT themselves).  I decided to give the BSL one a try, mostly because ordering it and something else I wanted from ShowZ was about the same price as just ordering the other item (of course the other item, the thing I really wanted, shipped separately and is currently stuck in customs hell).  Anyway, aside from some very minor differences in color I'm unaware of any differences between the official and the KO- they're both made the same, with diecast in the same spots and same or similar joint tolerances, so as far as I'm concerned this review applies to the official as well as the BSL KO.

To start with, here he is with MPM-4 and Challenger.  Now, if you remember watching Age of Extinction you may remember Lockdown fighting Optimus and being fairly similar in size.  And if that's the case, you might think this is fine.  Based on what I could dig up regarding the Bayverse scale, and backed by the Studio Series, Peru Kill should maybe be a head or so shorter.  Honestly, for robot mode I feel like this is fine, even if not absolutely correct, but we're going to talk about this again later.

Aside from the size, Unique Toys definitely crafted a pretty fantastic-looking Lockdown.  He's got most of the movie model's molded details, as well as some paint for the faux blue headlights on his chest and some orange on his biceps and knees where the movie model has visible brakes.  And then you turn him around, and you see an almost total absence of car kibble, save for things like the tail lights in his calves and the tires in his biceps that are movie accurate.  You also get more movie-accurate details like his butt plate, the round ports on the back of his head, and his spine.  Some of the details are a little flatter than the movie model, his head is perhaps a little small (although the sculpt is fantastic, right down the scar over his left eye), and his midsection could be a little thinner, but it's still very, very close and still being delivered in a package that doesn't even look like it should transform.  To my eye, only his feet really give it away.

Speaking of feet... I should say that the underside of his feet are basically his alt mode doors.  As such, his side view mirrors are, by default, on his feet.  You can leave them there, if you like.  It's not the most accurate look, though, as I think they stick out fairly noticeably.  If you don't mind a bit of partsforming, you can instead pull them off his feet and peg them into the sides of his shoulders.

Anyway, accessories.  He comes with his alternate masked face.  He comes with his claw, which he didn't use a ton in the movie but is kind of Lockdown's defining characteristic across other versions.  He's got a Seed.  And he's got a very large rifle.  Noticeably absent are his knife, which the Studio Series figure included, and the spark extractor, which I think a lot of people wanted.

You do, however, get Steeljaw... or in the case of this KO, three Steeljaws (this is the most noticeable difference with the KO- all the gunmetal color on the head, spines, and legs, and feet here should properly be silver).  Not a ton to say about these guys.  The jaws can open and close, and the the head is on a ball joint with some up/down/ tilt, the ability to look a little to the left or right, and the ability to tilt their head.  The shoulders and hips are also ball joints for rotation and some spread.  The elbows are hinged with about 90 degrees of bend.  The true knees on his hind legs are also hinged and also good for about 90 degrees, but their true ankles are fixed.  Then all four paws are on ball joints.  Steeljaw has a tab on his back that the big rifle can connect to, if that's your thing.

As for Peru Kill himself, his articulation is a tad limited.  His head can tilt up and down a little, but he can only turn it about 45 degrees to the left or right before his chin hits his collar.  His shoulders can rotate and extend laterally a little shy of 90 degrees.  His elbows are double-jointed and can curl the whole way up.  At first I didn't think he had a bicep swivel, since there is a part right above his elbow that swivels but you need to actually flip a part and lock it in place to keep his bicep together.  After messing with him a little more I found he does have a (tight) bicep swivel, it's just between his elbow joints.  His wrists can swivel, plus they're on a hinge so they can bend up and down.  The thumb is on a ball joint, but is otherwise a solid piece.  His other four fingers have a pin hinge at the base and mid knuckles, but the fingers are molded together so he can't point or anything.

Things get a little worse as we go down.  For starters, he doesn't have a waist swivel.  He does have a swivel below the waist, but it's very limited; what you see in the above picture is pretty much the maximum.  His hip skirts don't move (aside from his butt flap), so he gets a little less than 90 degrees forward and backwards on his hips, and only about 60 degrees laterally.  His thighs swivel around the joint, but he amount of swivel that gives him feels pretty natural.  His one ratcheted joint are his knees, which can bend just over 90 degrees.  The problem here is that even though it's not a super strong ratchet it still requires more force to move it than the transformation hinge just below his knee.  This give him a tendency for his leg to bend the wrong way below the knee when you're manipulating him.  Finally, his ankles can tilt down a good bit, down just a taste, and pivot around 45 degrees.

To attach his hook you fold up in hand like you're going back to alt mode, then peg the hook into what was the top of his hand.  The hook can rotate on the peg like a wrist swivel, and there's a hinge in the hook that lets it open and close like a claw.  It forms a knife-like point when it's fully closed.  As for the seed, it really doesn't do anything.  You can try to balance it in his hand, but it doesn't stay very well and there's no way to peg it in place.  It's the sort of accessory that's begging to go back into the box.

To use the other face you simply have to pop the default one off.  There's a tab on the back of each face that fits into a slot inside his head.  Then we have his big gun.  He can hold it, if you like.  His hand fits through the handle, and peg on the back of the rifle locks into a hole on his forearm.  The friction joints in his elbow are just barely adequate for holding up such a heavy weapon.  Of course, I don't recall that he actually did use his gun that way; the only gun-like weapon I recall was the spark extractor.  The gun, I recall, was his head.  And Unique Toys made sure you can recreate that look, too.  The handle folds up, and the barrel slides forward so you can fit the weapon around Peru Kill's head.  Inside, a tab will fit into a slot on the back of his head and a spring will pull the barrel back, locking the gun into place.  For extra support a small armature will plug into the top of his back.  And for the record, I tested this with both faces, and it works either way.

If you'd rather he not carry his gear on his hands, he can carry it on his back.  Slots on the gun fit onto tabs on his back so that the gun looks slung across at an angle.  The hook has tabs on it, and it can either fit into the slot on other side of the rifle or, if the rifle isn't on his back, into the slot on his back that the rifle's little armature plugs into when it's in head mode.

That's not all, though.  If you did buy Challenger, chances are you got a dagger.  That dagger, as I mentioned at the time, isn't for challenger, it's for Peru Kill.  And Peru Kill can hold it in his hand, although it's just the tension in his fingers holding it in place.  Or, you can use the pegs on the hilt to attach the dagger to the top of his hand.  I think he used the dagger both ways while fighting Optimus at the end of the movie.

But enough about robots.  Even though it doesn't look like it, Peru Kill does transform into a Lamborghini Aventador.  At a glance, he looks like he still fits in fairly well with the MPM cars.  And it's pretty impressive that they'd get something nearly as tall as MPM-4 (or MP-10) to shift down to something that's close to an MPM car in size.  Although, I checked some numbers, and a Saleen Mustang S281 should be roughly 189", and the Aventador is a hair over 188".  But we can see Peru Kill is definitely a little longer than Barricade.  Now, remember when I said that Peru Kill is probably a little too tall?  While his robot height didn't really bother me I do have to think that had they actually made him the "proper" size in robot mode if the resultant shrinkage might have made the alt mode scale better.

Well, at least I can say it's a very nice alt mode.  I think Lamborghinis have been some of the coolest-looking cars as far back as the ahead-of-its-time Countach, and while the differences in a lot of the modern Lamborghinis are sometimes subtle the Aventador is probably my favorite of the bunch.  Peru Kill does a pretty good job of capturing the Aventador.  Paint is used to pick out the lights in front of the front wheels and behind the rear wheels, as well as the brakes behind the movie-accurate Lamborghini rims.  It's hard to see, but it's even got the sideways Y's in the tail lights.  I do have some complaints, though... the lack of break lights above the similarly lacking license plate, the lack of detail in the cooling vents for the brakes and the intakes for the engine behind the windows, the fact that the dark translucent plastic on the windshield and the side windows aren't actually covering the whole windowed area, and the lack of a Lambo badge (or at least a painted, intended shield where the badge should be).  Plus, while you can't really tell Peru Kill transforms by looking at his robot mode, it's super evident in alt mode by the fact that it's covered in seems.

It does roll, though, on rubber tires.  His rifle plugs into slot near the tail of the car, and if you also want to store the claw it can still be tabbed onto either side of the rifle.

When Peru Kill came out I remember people gushing over it.  Some even said it was their choice for the best Transformers toy of 2017.  And if I'm being totally honest, I'm not sure I'm feeling that.  I think the alt mode is a little unfinished (and yes, I checked, my gripes with the BSL version are present on the UT one).  I think the seed is stupid and we really should have gotten a spark extractor.  I think his articulation is a little too limited in the hips and waist, and I really wish they'd have done something different with the knees.  I wish he were a little smaller, so his car mode would scale better with MPM-3 and MPM-5.

That said, I think it's easier for me to see Peru Kill's flaws because I got Challenger first.  Because, make no mistake, it's extremely impressive how Unique Toys managed to engineer both to be so screen accurate and still actually transform.  I just think Challenger pulled it off with fewer compromises.  (Or course, it doesn't help that Lockdown was a shallow villain who came and went in a single crappy movie, who I'd have no attachment to at all if it weren't for the Transformers Animated version.)

I think I'm forced to conclude that from a technical point of view Peru Kill is a flawed figure, but extremely impressive nevertheless.  If you're into Bayverse characters you should definitely check him out.  If you're not into the Bayverse designs, though, you might struggle to find room for him in your collection.

One thing's for sure, I'd love it if Unique Toys used the designer for this and Challenger to do some G1-style MP's.  The clever yet simple engineering is definitely effective at hiding away the alt mode in some fantastic-looking robots, and unlike Fans Toys' recent efforts they're actually pretty fun to transform.

[mikeszekely]

Doing this mostly for @JetJockey, whom I expect to check in here soon.  But here's some quick comparison pics of the current crop of upcoming MP-style Primes.

Of course, I just grabbed one relatively comparable picture of each, so these may not highlight some issues (like MP-44's backpack) that may or may not be an issue.  Some other quick stuff to note-

MS is available to preorder from some Chinese shops like ShowZ and a few American shops for between $109-$135.  I've only seen TE on the Chinese stores so far for around $109.  Takara's MSRP for MP-44 is 50,000 yen, which translates to around $440.  Some stores may go lower, some may go higher (my favorite is TFSource, who have it listed as 10% off on sale... at $450).

For your money, we're not really sure what MS or TE is offering besides Optimus and his rifle.  Some pics of TE have had him pulling MP-10's trailer.  MP-44 is going to come with a ton of accessories including Spike, Sparkplug, his trailer, Roller, a jetpack, fire effects for the jetpack, an alternate head, a battle damaged head, and a Starscream head.

MS looks like it'll probably be out first, and TE soon after.  I think both will be out by spring.  MP-44 is currently estimated for August.

Personally, there's stuff I like and dislike about both MS and TE (and good ol' MP-10).  I like the beefy proportions, subtle details, and the head on MS, but I like the silver trim on the windows, yellow paint on the lights on top of his torso, and the rifle better on TE.  I don't like that both are using white for the thighs and pelvis, and I don't like the MS is using light gray instead of silver for his ribs and face.  In truck mode, I think that TE has a better hitch section while MS's has the same chunky robot leg look that MP-10 does, and again I like the painted lights on the roof and the silver window trim.  But the silver stripe on the cab is a must for me, and I think the front of the cab looks better on MS.  So for now, I'm leaning toward MS, but I might still pick up TE.  Especially if I think I can take them apart and paint the stuff that's bugging me.

Takara was never in the running.  Even before they showed the painted pictures I hated the squished torso with the giant pelvis and long legs.  I hate the giant backpack.  And the hitch section of the truck mode looks like a mess.  Then they showed the color pictures, and again I'm not a fan of the super cartoony white and light gray instead of silver, the missing silver on the cab, and now the missing blue stripes on the trailer.  If they all cost the same Takara would still be my last choice, but the fact that they want over $400 is laughable, I don't care what accessories they're including.

@JetJockey, it's super late here (almost 3:30am!) so I'm turning in.  But if I have time tomorrow I'll do something like this for your Jazz options.

[Kuma Style]

Second set of Quantron bots came in yesterday.

 

 

 

[RavenHawk]

1 hour ago, Kuma Style said:

Second set of Quantron bots came in yesterday.

 

 

 

Great shot!

I was definitely tempted to get the Black Friday deal for the whole set... but I already have 2 of Overheat and just couldn't justify it to myself (plus, I just ordered the reorder set of Crash Hog and Dumpyard).

[Kuma Style]

18 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Great shot!

I was definitely tempted to get the Black Friday deal for the whole set... but I already have 2 of Overheat and just couldn't justify it to myself (plus, I just ordered the reorder set of Crash Hog and Dumpyard).

TY and yea the Black Friday sale is what made me say frakk it. It was too cheap not to.

[RavenHawk]

Just now, Kuma Style said:

TY and yea the Black Friday sale is what made me say frakk it. It was too cheap not to.

Absolutely. The whole set for pretty much what a single one of the figures cost when they were first released... hard to go wrong. I was REALLY tempted.

Then I looked at all of the motorcycle mecha and transformers I have ordered in the last couple months, looked at how full my display cases are, the boxes of models still waiting to be built, the custom designs still in progress... and I went ahead and ordered like 4 other things instead, for merely 4 times as much money.

Fiscally responsible I am not.

[anime52k8]

7 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

This may be an unpopular opinion but I like MP-44 the most of the three.  Even with the backpack the Takara version just looks the most "right" to me. I especially like the lower body, especially the feet; prime finally has nicely proportioned, good looking boots instead of a giant pair of dust buster nozzles.

[captain america]

Look how nice TE Prime is with a proper head!    I suspect that I have a fix for the dark cab windows that will make them a bit more toon-accurate (and just more interesting and catchy) but that will have to wait until I have the figure in-hand.

Edited November 30, 2018 by captain america

[M'Kyuun]

I think Magic Square is the way I'm gonna go. The only real negatives I see are the ridiculously large hitch section (but then again, he'll spend less than 1% of his existence in truck mode) and his weirdly shaped gun. (looks weird to me, anyway)  Neither are dealbreakers, as the overall bot looks really good, and having watched a transformation vid last night, looks like a fun update to MP-10 on the shelf. Incidentally, the truck's grill simply rotates 180 degrees and becomes the bot's abs, which hasn't been seen on a Prime fig in some time. I kinda dig that. 

One detail, or lack thereof of all three, that bugs the ever livin' sh!t out of me is the lack of silver on his leg vents. That's become an iconic part of Prime's look and it irritates me that it's omitted on all of these. I do, however, love that MS's version has the leg vents in 3D detail, instead of just being flat rectangles like the Takara and TE. I love those kinds of details, so I'll be glad when the slavish toon accuracy trend wears off. I know, it'll probably be awhile.

[valhary]

Agree MS is my option too I feel that is the step forward of the mp10 only adding a little cartoon style and followed very closely by TE meanwhile Takara is out the table because the overpriced is too ridiculous

[mikeszekely]

2 hours ago, anime52k8 said:

This may be an unpopular opinion but I like MP-44 the most of the three.

My read on the situation is that your opinion is the majority opinion and it's really the price more than anything else putting people off of MP-44.

Honestly, if someone made an MP-10 with Wei Jiang's fixes to his proportions that hides the wheels on his legs in bot mode and isn't oversized that would be my ideal Prime. But I guess I might get MS and try to repaint the white and gray parts silver.

[Dangard Ace]

3 hours ago, anime52k8 said:

This may be an unpopular opinion but I like MP-44 the most of the three.  Even with the backpack the Takara version just looks the most "right" to me. I especially like the lower body, especially the feet; prime finally has nicely proportioned, good looking boots instead of a giant pair of dust buster nozzles.

 

Takara's MP44 is my choice too(except for the price).  Then it's TE then maybe MS.  

[Kuma Style]

5 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Absolutely. The whole set for pretty much what a single one of the figures cost when they were first released... hard to go wrong. I was REALLY tempted.

Then I looked at all of the motorcycle mecha and transformers I have ordered in the last couple months, looked at how full my display cases are, the boxes of models still waiting to be built, the custom designs still in progress... and I went ahead and ordered like 4 other things instead, for merely 4 times as much money.

Fiscally responsible I am not.

oh I completely understand...I don't know if you saw the list I posted earlier but I went absolutely insane spending last week and the worst part is that it looks like it's literally all dropping tomorrow so I'm potentially going to have Pandinus, Utopia, Green Giant, Chaos Paladin, Striker Noir, and some non-tf stuff on my porch tomorrow. The Mrs just happens to be out of town during the day so it looks like quite a bit of grief will be saved. 

[M'Kyuun]

6 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

My read on the situation is that your opinion is the majority opinion and it's really the price more than anything else putting people off of MP-44.

Honestly, if someone made an MP-10 with Wei Jiang's fixes to his proportions that hides the wheels on his legs in bot mode and isn't oversized that would be my ideal Prime. But I guess I might get MS and try to repaint the white and gray parts silver.

This. MP-10 is already a good design with few compromises. Incorporate the fixes you mentioned while upgrading his articulation, and it would be nigh perfect.

I'm dismayed that the third parties in question are following Takara's toon accuracy trend, especially in regards to coloration. Prime looks much better with silver legs, and has been portrayed as such in just about every iteration since the G1 cartoon, which only colored them white to represent the chrome of the toy.  Same goes for the leg vents, as I mentioned earlier- they've been silver in just about every iteration for the past several decades, only now to be plain old blue to match the simplistic cartoon art direction.  

[JB0]

8 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

 Incidentally, the truck's grill simply rotates 180 degrees and becomes the bot's abs, which hasn't been seen on a Prime fig in some time. I kinda dig that. 

 

That alone makes Magic Square's offering the best magic square. If the truck parts aren't robot parts, the design is cheating.

Looks like the Takara is the only one that doesn't use the truck windshield as the robot chest. Lame, but expected of them.

Edited December 1, 2018 by JB0

[mikeszekely]

Not to derail the Prime discussion, but I said I'd try to get this up for @JetJockey

These are basically your three choices for Jazz (there is a 4th that's pretty good, but he's arguably a more IDW-inspired take that turns into a modern Porsche 911 GT3 instead of an old 935 Turbo).  They are Maketoys Downbeat, Transform and Roll Out Agent Meister (who may or may not be listed as Hova), and ToyWorld's Coolsville (which was also released under the Zeta brand as Jazzy).

For robot mode, Maketoys went with a cartoon look, Toyworld went with a toy look, and TNR is somewhere in between.  Weirdly, they're all slightly different sizes.  Maketoys fits in with the MP cars, Toyworld's a little too tall, TNR is a little too short.

For alt mode, again, it's worth pointing out that MT went for a cartoon look, which is why he's much more plain than the others (although you can by stickers for him if you like).  ToyWorld and TNR went for a more realistic look; the main difference is that TNR actually used the Martini livery if you buy from a Chinese seller (right down to a Porsche badge), while Toyworld made little changes like Mortini instead of Martini, two "s"s in Bosch, and no mention of Porsche.

For what it's worth, I wrote a review of Downbeat here.

I think the ToyWorld one is still readily available, or at least the Zeta version is, in around the $60-$65 price range.  TNR's is similarly still pretty easy to get, although I've seen prices anywhere from $65 all the way to $90.  Downbeat was impossible to find for awhile, but it looks like MT reissued him and I've found some in stock and a few preorders for new stock at around $95-$100.

Now, with the Primes I was able to say what my preference was based entirely on aesthetics, but since all of these Jazzes are out my opinions are a little more developed.  However, I have to stress the only one I've handled personally is Downbeat.  That being said, Downbeat's my recommendation.  Although I agree with @Scyla that he's got some flaws, like the unpainted gray on his feet and shins and the silver paint on his thighs (Jazz is one of the characters that should actually have white thighs), he just nails the look in robot mode.  Plus he's got good articulation, solid construction, smart engineering, and it doesn't hurt that MT is one of my favorite 3P companies.  I think his car mode looks good, too, although his rear bumper looks like it's falling off, and if you prefer the realistic racing livery then the other two definitely look better (for me, bot mode is more important).  ToyWorld/Zeta has lots of paint and diecast, but the transformation is supposedly kind of a pain, he's got that flap behind his head, gaps on the insides of his forearms, and I'm not really into the toy look on him.  TNR might have themselves a happy middle ground, but I've been hearing stories of stress marks, issues pegging the shoulders together, and an all-around "cheap" feel.

[RavenHawk]

21 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

TNR actually used the Martini livery if you buy from a Chinese seller (right down to a Porsche badge), while Toyworld made little changes like Mortini instead of Martini, two "s"s in Bosch, and no mention of Porsche.

It's always kind of funny to me that these companies seem to think that these little changes actually make a difference.

[David Hingtgen]

MP-44 may be the best, but I don't really like any of the new Primes.  Will keep waiting.  I want one "less ridiculously toon-accurate, they all go past the point of ruining truck mode for 1% more screen-accuracy".   No one seems to be able to strike a balance, between toon/toy/real.  Yeesh, I shouldn't have to, or even still be able to, say "G1 Prime had the best, most realistic semi-cab, of them all, by far".  

I long for the days of MP Sideswipe/Bluestreak/Wheeljack.   "Try to get the most toon-based bot mode we can, but don't totally throw away alt-mode realism to do it".   I'm sure they could do Sideswipe even better nowdays, with new techniques etc, and give him a narrower chest and remove the ankle guards.  But you just know a Sideswipe 2.0 would be a bland, featureless lump of an alt-mode, and not "an even better Countach". 

 

[Kuma Style]

I feel like the Magic Square looks like "MP-10 perfected" which is just glorious to me while MP-44 looks like a once-in-a-generation type of definitive figure. I'm definitely in for both.

[JetJockey]

20 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

Doing this mostly for @JetJockey, whom I expect to check in here soon.  But here's some quick comparison pics of the current crop of upcoming MP-style Primes.

Of course, I just grabbed one relatively comparable picture of each, so these may not highlight some issues (like MP-44's backpack) that may or may not be an issue.  Some other quick stuff to note-

MS is available to preorder from some Chinese shops like ShowZ and a few American shops for between $109-$135.  I've only seen TE on the Chinese stores so far for around $109.  Takara's MSRP for MP-44 is 50,000 yen, which translates to around $440.  Some stores may go lower, some may go higher (my favorite is TFSource, who have it listed as 10% off on sale... at $450).

For your money, we're not really sure what MS or TE is offering besides Optimus and his rifle.  Some pics of TE have had him pulling MP-10's trailer.  MP-44 is going to come with a ton of accessories including Spike, Sparkplug, his trailer, Roller, a jetpack, fire effects for the jetpack, an alternate head, a battle damaged head, and a Starscream head.

MS looks like it'll probably be out first, and TE soon after.  I think both will be out by spring.  MP-44 is currently estimated for August.

Personally, there's stuff I like and dislike about both MS and TE (and good ol' MP-10).  I like the beefy proportions, subtle details, and the head on MS, but I like the silver trim on the windows, yellow paint on the lights on top of his torso, and the rifle better on TE.  I don't like that both are using white for the thighs and pelvis, and I don't like the MS is using light gray instead of silver for his ribs and face.  In truck mode, I think that TE has a better hitch section while MS's has the same chunky robot leg look that MP-10 does, and again I like the painted lights on the roof and the silver window trim.  But the silver stripe on the cab is a must for me, and I think the front of the cab looks better on MS.  So for now, I'm leaning toward MS, but I might still pick up TE.  Especially if I think I can take them apart and paint the stuff that's bugging me.

Takara was never in the running.  Even before they showed the painted pictures I hated the squished torso with the giant pelvis and long legs.  I hate the giant backpack.  And the hitch section of the truck mode looks like a mess.  Then they showed the color pictures, and again I'm not a fan of the super cartoony white and light gray instead of silver, the missing silver on the cab, and now the missing blue stripes on the trailer.  If they all cost the same Takara would still be my last choice, but the fact that they want over $400 is laughable, I don't care what accessories they're including.

@JetJockey, it's super late here (almost 3:30am!) so I'm turning in.  But if I have time tomorrow I'll do something like this for your Jazz options.

 

1 hour ago, mikeszekely said:

Not to derail the Prime discussion, but I said I'd try to get this up for @JetJockey

These are basically your three choices for Jazz (there is a 4th that's pretty good, but he's arguably a more IDW-inspired take that turns into a modern Porsche 911 GT3 instead of an old 935 Turbo).  They are Maketoys Downbeat, Transform and Roll Out Agent Meister (who may or may not be listed as Hova), and ToyWorld's Coolsville (which was also released under the Zeta brand as Jazzy).

For robot mode, Maketoys went with a cartoon look, Toyworld went with a toy look, and TNR is somewhere in between.  Weirdly, they're all slightly different sizes.  Maketoys fits in with the MP cars, Toyworld's a little too tall, TNR is a little too short.

For alt mode, again, it's worth pointing out that MT went for a cartoon look, which is why he's much more plain than the others (although you can by stickers for him if you like).  ToyWorld and TNR went for a more realistic look; the main difference is that TNR actually used the Martini livery if you buy from a Chinese seller (right down to a Porsche badge), while Toyworld made little changes like Mortini instead of Martini, two "s"s in Bosch, and no mention of Porsche.

For what it's worth, I wrote a review of Downbeat here.

I think the ToyWorld one is still readily available, or at least the Zeta version is, in around the $60-$65 price range.  TNR's is similarly still pretty easy to get, although I've seen prices anywhere from $65 all the way to $90.  Downbeat was impossible to find for awhile, but it looks like MT reissued him and I've found some in stock and a few preorders for new stock at around $95-$100.

Now, with the Primes I was able to say what my preference was based entirely on aesthetics, but since all of these Jazzes are out my opinions are a little more developed.  However, I have to stress the only one I've handled personally is Downbeat.  That being said, Downbeat's my recommendation.  Although I agree with @Scyla that he's got some flaws, like the unpainted gray on his feet and shins and the silver paint on his thighs (Jazz is one of the characters that should actually have white thighs), he just nails the look in robot mode.  Plus he's got good articulation, solid construction, smart engineering, and it doesn't hurt that MT is one of my favorite 3P companies.  I think his car mode looks good, too, although his rear bumper looks like it's falling off, and if you prefer the realistic racing livery then the other two definitely look better (for me, bot mode is more important).  ToyWorld/Zeta has lots of paint and diecast, but the transformation is supposedly kind of a pain, he's got that flap behind his head, gaps on the insides of his forearms, and I'm not really into the toy look on him.  TNR might have themselves a happy middle ground, but I've been hearing stories of stress marks, issues pegging the shoulders together, and an all-around "cheap" feel.

 

Many thanks for these! I was paging around last night and this morning going over the images. I'm surprised at what's out there. I'll have to keep checking this topic. I have a lot of decisions to make.

 

[slaginpit]

I like the Magic Square best

[JB0]

16 minutes ago, slaginpit said:

I like the Magic Square best

Ditto. But the fold-away windshield wipers on Transform Element are a cool touch that actually improves both modes(wipers aren't molded into the window on the truck, so they look like actual wipers.).

...

Transform Element didn't paint the headlights? Is that a pre-production issue, or did they totally cheap out on paint at the last second? 

[David Hingtgen]

Magic Square is clearly just a re-hashed MP-10, but I don't see it as any better at all, in truck mode.  If anything, it's a bit simpler, more toon-style, and actually slightly worse in many areas.  Just like all the others---they are absolutely "throwing away massive amounts of alt-mode looks/realism" in exchange for small tweaks to robot mode.  That is NOT a good exchange. 

[slaginpit]

OH

MY

frakkING GOD I CANT WAIT FOR MINE TO COME IN
 

 

[M'Kyuun]

3 minutes ago, David Hingtgen said:

Magic Square is clearly just a re-hashed MP-10, but I don't see it as any better at all, in truck mode.  If anything, it's a bit simpler, more toon-style, and actually slightly worse in many areas.  Just like all the others---they are absolutely "throwing away massive amounts of alt-mode looks/realism" in exchange for small tweaks to robot mode.  That is NOT a good exchange. 

No, but I can live with it, as mine will spend little time in truck mode. Now if you're a truck enthusiast, I can see where it might bug you. I like planes, so it bugs me to no end when Takara takes all these shortcuts with bot parts hanging out or just straps a little plane fuselage to an obvious robot underneath. I'm not sure if the original Convoy was based on a real cab, or just a stylized one, but I'd venture to say that every iteration since, except the Bayformers, has been stylized.

Concerning the Jazz options, I prefer the more toy faithful versions, so Downbeat was out of the running for me. I have Zeta's Jazzy PO'd (he's been out of stock for months now, but several US retailers show him backordered) as it's quite faithful to the look of the G1 toy except for the purposely misspelled livery and the absence of his front wheels over the shoulders. His doors can be positioned out to the sides to replicate the 'wings' look of the G1 toy, or folded down behind his back for the toon look. One other issue with Jazzy is that it was advertised with blue paint on the hip skirts, but it did not come with those paint apps. It was identical to the Toyworld version, Coolsville. (Zeta designed the toy and was marketing it through ToyWorld, as I understand it. They had a falling out, and the design reverted back to Zeta's ownership) Anyway, Zeta has been contacted by previous reviewers, and I hope the next batch will include the blue paint. Not holding my breath, though.  As for Hova, it also favors the G1 toy. I recently watched a transformation vid, and the legs look like they have a bit of complexity to them, utilizing a couple sliders. One noticeable difference between it and the other two 3P Jazz figures, not to mention the G1 toy, is the above-ankle position of the back fenders. They just don't look right to me, but YMMV. Speaking to the clipping issues with the shoulders, the clip mechanism may be a compromise to allow the front wheels to be positioned either under the chest or above the shoulders for a G1 toy inspired look. I can't recall if the guy in the vid had issues here, but I believe he was able to get the arms to clip into place in both configurations and still demonstrate the arm articulation. A couple pluses it has over Jazzy are that the flap behind the head can be rotated out of view, and the forearms are closed, albeit by black covers that look out of place (may have been a pre-prod model in the vid, so that may get fixed). Anyway, I thought I'd add my observations to Mike's to help you make a decision, @JetJockey.

[JB0]

3 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

Magic Square is clearly just a re-hashed MP-10, but I don't see it as any better at all, in truck mode.  If anything, it's a bit simpler, more toon-style, and actually slightly worse in many areas.  Just like all the others---they are absolutely "throwing away massive amounts of alt-mode looks/realism" in exchange for small tweaks to robot mode.  That is NOT a good exchange.  

The only one I ever owned was MP-01(until he did a front-flip off my shelf and broke a leg).

I was impressed with the robot mode, but annoyed by how fake the truck looked and the complexity of the transformation(which doesn't seem that bad in comparison to, say, MP Megatron 2). That a lot of the complexity was there just so he could have a separate radiator for the truck and the robot didn't exactly do it any favors.

[Dobber]

Is ShowZ store a good place to buy? I want that Blackout!

Chris

[slaginpit]

8 minutes ago, Dobber said:

Is ShowZ store a good place to buy? I want that Blackout!

Chris

Yes

[slaginpit]