The Unlicensed Third Party Transformers Thread

[JB0]

8 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

You need a copyright on that JBO.

"Robutt is a registered trademark of Jaybee Enteprises, Ltd. Unauthorized use strictly prohibited, contact for licensing information."

[M'Kyuun]

[Kuma Style]

 

[David Hingtgen]

On ‎5‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 10:18 AM, tekering said:

Actually, he was a prominent Predacon from Car Robots (2000), later dubbed into English under the oft-used title Robots in Disguise...

 

But to make it even more complicated, while the CHARACTER premiered in Car Robots, the MOLD was from Beast Wars.  The original release was the 2nd mold for a non-show character--"Cybershark".  (The first Cybershark toy was pretty early in the line, and small.  Then he got a Transmetal version, much larger---the one we're talking about).    Then years (and 2 shows) later, the mold was brought back, recolored, and put on Car Robots/RID as a new character---thus SkyByte that we all know and love. 

[mikeszekely]

Well, this figure came out quite awhile ago, and he's pretty much sold out everywhere (I lucked out and bought one from a guy who decided that it was too big for his shelf space).  So, you either probably already have it or can't get it if you don't.  Nevertheless, this is Phoenix, FansToys' version of a Masterpiece Skyfire/Jetfire.

Phoenix is a big fella, for sure.  From what I can tell, he's a full head taller than DaCa Toys' Kronos, the only other arguably MP Skyfire.  He utterly dwarfs the only other 3P Skyfire I have, Mechaform's Sky Guardian, who himself is a little taller to the head than MP-10.  He is roughly eye-to-eye with TFC's Poseidon, and just a tad shorter than GT's Gravity Builder, and those guys are combiners.  Now, how you feel about Phoenix's size probably depends on which episodes you're remembering.  Personally, I'd have liked if he were a little shorter, like about the size Kronos was.  I mean, I remember him big, but Optimus to the red line above his cockpit is closer to what I remember (and what a lot of screenshots from a quick Google search show) than Optimus to the top of the notch at the bottom of his cockpit.  That said, if you go by the Sunbow scale chart (especially if you believe the chart supersedes the wildly-inconsistent animation) then Phoenix is about the correct size.

Regardless of his size, FansToys definitely did a great job capturing Skyfire's look from the cartoon.  Pretty much all the detail in the cartoon, like the squares on his toes, the lines on his ankles, the trapezoidal bits on his shins, the triangles on his hips, and some of the little mechanical bits on his chest are all present and accounted for, although FT has a tendency to paint some of the details were simply white in the cartoon.  Then again, if they didn't, we'd be looking at a very plain, very white robot.  The headsculpt is perfect, with sharply-defined cheeks and a gunmetal color outlining his face.  Unlike pretty much every other toy meant to be Skyfire/Jetfire Phoenix's wings don't even protrude too far out from his back, and he's even got the pointy bits on his forearms just below his elbows.  Honestly, I think the worst thing I can say about him aesthetically is that he maybe looks too heroic.  On the animation mode the vents on his torso were almost the whole way down to his hips, but on Phoenix they're part of his chest, with segmented lats between them and his hips.  I can't honestly say that bothers me, though.

Phoenix doesn't come with much in the way of accessories.  You've got a cartoon-accurate double-barreled rifle.  In the little baggie are light-piped eyes, in case you prefer light piping to the gorgeous metallic blue painted eyes (and if you do you're a monster), as well as a replacement chest piece.  The idea there seems to be that you can put an Autobot emblem on one and a Decepticon emblem on the other, in case you want to re-enact the scene where he switches sides in episode "Fire in the Sky."  Lastly, he comes with part of a stand, which seems like an incredibly cheap move for a toy that carried a $220 price tag at US retailers.  According to the instructions, the piece of a stand can be used with the stand that comes with Sovereign, whom I just happen to have.  You have to remove the screws (marked above with arrows), pull the top part that clips around Sovereign's crotch out, pop the part the comes with Phoenix in, then screw it all back together.  

For a $220 Masterpiece-style toy from a company with FansToys' reputation I've gotta be honest, Phoenix's articulation is fairly limited.  His head is on a hinged swivel so he can turn it, look down a little, and look up maybe 30 degrees.  His shoulders rotate on ratchets, and he can move them laterally about 90 degrees on another ratchet.  His biceps swivel.  His elbow is a single hinge but it does curl all the way around to about 180 degrees, and the pointy bit on the front of his forearm cleverly folds into his forearm as you do so, and it pops back out when you straighten his elbow.  His wrists are actually on ball joints, so not only do they swivel but they can actually bend upward.  As for his fingers, each finger is individually-articulated, and KFC/XTB should pay attention to how FansToys does it.  The base of the thumb is a ball joint, so it can rotate as well as fold over the palm.  The thumb has two additional pinned knuckle hinges.  Each finger has a pin hinge at the base, middle, and finger tip knuckles.  Plus, each finger has pinned hinge just in front of the base knuckle, but going through top-to-bottom instead of side-to-side.  This additional hinge allows the fingers to splay a bit.  The result is that his fingers have all have a very natural, very complete range of motion but no loose, flimsy ball joints or finger segments that pop off.

Unfortunately, things start to go downhill at the waist.  As designed, with everything tabbed in properly, he doesn't have a waist swivel.  If you untab the hips like you're about to transform them you do unlock a little bit of waist swivel, but his backpack still stops you from doing more than turning maybe 5 degrees, so I'm not inclined to count it.  Speaking of hips, even with the skid of his hip armor hinging out the side he can still only get about 60 degrees laterally on some squeaky friction joints.  Forward and backward motion is ratcheted, but to only about 45 degrees forward and 30 backward.  His hips can swivel about 30 degrees at the top of the thigh, but if you need more there's another (squeaky) swivel below the knee.  The knees themselves are ratcheted and bend 90 degrees.  His feet can tilt up just a little and down a good deal on a soft ratchet, and his ankles can pivot but only slightly.  That last bit's a shame because the pivot joint is capable of a lot more, but the armor around his ankle hinders it.  All FansToys had to do was put a hinge in the armor so it could bend out and he'd have a lot more useful pivot.

Phoenix's gun has tabs on the handle that, like most MP-style figures, fit into slots on his palms.  What's nice, though, is that Phoenix has the finger articulation to properly wrap his fingers and thumb around the handle while slipping his index finger up into the trigger guard.  The gun stays in his hand pretty securely, so no complaints there.

Phoenix transforms from a big robot to a huge jet.  Without a ruler or measuring tap handy I'd venture that his wing span is probably about the same as his length from nose to rear.  And if you set Phoenix so he's standing on his rear (something he does with no problem) a Gigapower dinobot like Graviter will only come up to the panel for the faction symbol.  As big as he is, though, MP Soundwave is too big to lay on his nose, and you won't be posing MP Ratchet on his wing. 

I have to give FansToys some serious kudos, too, because Phoenix uses a lot of simple yet clever engineering.  His thrusters get longer, his backpack gets wider, his wings get longer (both side-to-side and front-to-back).  The resulting jet is more solid, more cohesive, and more cartoon-accurate than either Kronos or Sky Guardian, yet the transformation is fairly easy, intuitive, and fun... pretty much the exact opposite of all FT's subsequent releases.  Pretty much the only negative I can come up with is that the indented section on the front of his backpack isn't screen-accurate and that his nose is a little too long, but both of those things are pretty small potatoes.  I'd have also maybe liked some paint for the intakes on the side of his nose, but given that's the underside of his wrists in robot mode I can't fault FT for erring on the side of robot mode accuracy.

Due to transformation the wings are variable; in all my pictures they're swept back as far as they go, but you can just as easily have them straight out to the sides or even sweep them forward.  A little yellow paint on the tips marks his position lights (although technically the one on his left wing should be red and the one in the above picture on his right wing should be green).  The cockpit can open, and there are two molded chrome seats inside (the second canopy on his backpack doesn't open).  He's got working landing gear, complete with rolling wheels.

You can peg Phoenix's gun to the inside of his right leg while he's in jet mode.  It's not symmetrical, and the barrels jut out the back instead of pointing forward like a VF-1's gunpod.  It kind of feels like an afterthought, but at least there is some sort of weapon storage for alt mode.

One thing I find curious is that his thrusters are on his backpack and that his feet fold up tight.  This is, I believe, cartoon-accurate.  However, he has thrusters in his heels.  These thrusters are apparently just a nice little detail for robot mode.

In jet mode, a diecast bar unfolds from the nose and tabs into the top of his robot crotch.  This diecast bar has a slit in it.  If you swapped out the top of the stand that comes with Sovereign with the part that comes with Phoenix, the fin on to top fits into the slit on the diecast bar, allowing Phoenix to set securely on the stand.  This only works with jet mode, though; if there's a way to put him on the stand in robot mode I haven't found it.

At this point you can probably figure out that I don't think Phoenix is a perfect figure.  His articulation is fairly limited, I think FansToys was cheap to only give you part of a stand instead of a whole stand, and this is the least paint I've seen on a FansToys figure since Tesla.  That said, Skyfire is a big scientist with a big backpack in the cartoon, so I'd argue that more dynamic poses aren't necessarily in character, and expressive hands kind of make up for it the lack of articulation from the waist down.  And I do happen to own Sovereign, whom I think needs a stand a lot less than Phoenix does.  As for the lack of paint, well, he's mostly made of white plastic, but it's not like his colors are wrong.

And then we have to consider his positives.  Paint or not, he's got excellent aesthetics in both modes.  The materials are good, and the joint tolerances are perfect (even if some of the friction joints are a little squeaky).  The engineering is smart and effective yet simple and intuitive, so transforming him is easy and fun.  After buying figures like Rouge and Spindrift (and passing of stuff like Koot and Apache) I give FansToys a hard time, accusing them of using a ton of paint and diecast to create a premium feel that masks the fact that they're often over-engineered and not particularly fun to mess with.  I was seriously wondering why so many people seem to hold FansToys up as the gold standard for 3P toys.  Even Sovereign, whom I think nails Galvatron's robot look in a brick of a figure with gorgeous purple paint and has enough articulation for some really fantastic poses is still a chore to transform.  Now, I imagine when people are talking about how great FansToys is they're probably thinking of toys like Phoenix.  Now, I don't own every FansToys release- in fact, without Quakewave or their Dinobots a case could probably be made that I've skipped some of their best releases.  However, of the FT figures that I do have (Phoenix, the Insecticons, Spindrift, Tesla, Sovereign, Lupus, and Rouge) I think Phoenix is unequivocally the best.  Highly recommended.

[JB0]

A converting robot that can actually put a finger on a gun trigger?! What madness is this?!

Seriously, those hands are fantastic. I'd like to see them ripped off by everyone(though I guess they might be a kinda expensive hand design).

 

Also, am I the only person that ever imagined Skyfire's booster pack as a detachable secondary plane? I really wish the wing situation allowed that, canon or not.

[Kuma Style]

3 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

But to make it even more complicated, while the CHARACTER premiered in Car Robots, the MOLD was from Beast Wars.  The original release was the 2nd mold for a non-show character--"Cybershark".  (The first Cybershark toy was pretty early in the line, and small.  Then he got a Transmetal version, much larger---the one we're talking about).    Then years (and 2 shows) later, the mold was brought back, recolored, and put on Car Robots/RID as a new character---thus SkyByte that we all know and love. 

I honestly never knew this.

[slaginpit]

7 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

Well, this figure came out quite awhile ago, and he's pretty much sold out everywhere (I lucked out and bought one from a guy who decided that it was too big for his shelf space).  So, you either probably already have it or can't get it if you don't.  Nevertheless, this is Phoenix, FansToys' version of a Masterpiece Skyfire/Jetfire.

Phoenix is a big fella, for sure.  From what I can tell, he's a full head taller than DaCa Toys' Kronos, the only other arguably MP Skyfire.  He utterly dwarfs the only other 3P Skyfire I have, Mechaform's Sky Guardian, who himself is a little taller to the head than MP-10.  He is roughly eye-to-eye with TFC's Poseidon, and just a tad shorter than GT's Gravity Builder, and those guys are combiners.  Now, how you feel about Phoenix's size probably depends on which episodes you're remembering.  Personally, I'd have liked if he were a little shorter, like about the size Kronos was.  I mean, I remember him big, but Optimus to the red line above his cockpit is closer to what I remember (and what a lot of screenshots from a quick Google search show) than Optimus to the top of the notch at the bottom of his cockpit.  That said, if you go by the Sunbow scale chart (especially if you believe the chart supersedes the wildly-inconsistent animation) then Phoenix is about the correct size.

Regardless of his size, FansToys definitely did a great job capturing Skyfire's look from the cartoon.  Pretty much all the detail in the cartoon, like the squares on his toes, the lines on his ankles, the trapezoidal bits on his shins, the triangles on his hips, and some of the little mechanical bits on his chest are all present and accounted for, although FT has a tendency to paint some of the details were simply white in the cartoon.  Then again, if they didn't, we'd be looking at a very plain, very white robot.  The headsculpt is perfect, with sharply-defined cheeks and a gunmetal color outlining his face.  Unlike pretty much every other toy meant to be Skyfire/Jetfire Phoenix's wings don't even protrude too far out from his back, and he's even got the pointy bits on his forearms just below his elbows.  Honestly, I think the worst thing I can say about him aesthetically is that he maybe looks too heroic.  On the animation mode the vents on his torso were almost the whole way down to his hips, but on Phoenix they're part of his chest, with segmented lats between them and his hips.  I can't honestly say that bothers me, though.

Phoenix doesn't come with much in the way of accessories.  You've got a cartoon-accurate double-barreled rifle.  In the little baggie are light-piped eyes, in case you prefer light piping to the gorgeous metallic blue painted eyes (and if you do you're a monster), as well as a replacement chest piece.  The idea there seems to be that you can put an Autobot emblem on one and a Decepticon emblem on the other, in case you want to re-enact the scene where he switches sides in episode "Fire in the Sky."  Lastly, he comes with part of a stand, which seems like an incredibly cheap move for a toy that carried a $220 price tag at US retailers.  According to the instructions, the piece of a stand can be used with the stand that comes with Sovereign, whom I just happen to have.  You have to remove the screws (marked above with arrows), pull the top part that clips around Sovereign's crotch out, pop the part the comes with Phoenix in, then screw it all back together.  

For a $220 Masterpiece-style toy from a company with FansToys' reputation I've gotta be honest, Phoenix's articulation is fairly limited.  His head is on a hinged swivel so he can turn it, look down a little, and look up maybe 30 degrees.  His shoulders rotate on ratchets, and he can move them laterally about 90 degrees on another ratchet.  His biceps swivel.  His elbow is a single hinge but it does curl all the way around to about 180 degrees, and the pointy bit on the front of his forearm cleverly folds into his forearm as you do so, and it pops back out when you straighten his elbow.  His wrists are actually on ball joints, so not only do they swivel but they can actually bend upward.  As for his fingers, each finger is individually-articulated, and KFC/XTB should pay attention to how FansToys does it.  The base of the thumb is a ball joint, so it can rotate as well as fold over the palm.  The thumb has two additional pinned knuckle hinges.  Each finger has a pin hinge at the base, middle, and finger tip knuckles.  Plus, each finger has pinned hinge just in front of the base knuckle, but going through top-to-bottom instead of side-to-side.  This additional hinge allows the fingers to splay a bit.  The result is that his fingers have all have a very natural, very complete range of motion but no loose, flimsy ball joints or finger segments that pop off.

Unfortunately, things start to go downhill at the waist.  As designed, with everything tabbed in properly, he doesn't have a waist swivel.  If you untab the hips like you're about to transform them you do unlock a little bit of waist swivel, but his backpack still stops you from doing more than turning maybe 5 degrees, so I'm not inclined to count it.  Speaking of hips, even with the skid of his hip armor hinging out the side he can still only get about 60 degrees laterally on some squeaky friction joints.  Forward and backward motion is ratcheted, but to only about 45 degrees forward and 30 backward.  His hips can swivel about 30 degrees at the top of the thigh, but if you need more there's another (squeaky) swivel below the knee.  The knees themselves are ratcheted and bend 90 degrees.  His feet can tilt up just a little and down a good deal on a soft ratchet, and his ankles can pivot but only slightly.  That last bit's a shame because the pivot joint is capable of a lot more, but the armor around his ankle hinders it.  All FansToys had to do was put a hinge in the armor so it could bend out and he'd have a lot more useful pivot.

Phoenix's gun has tabs on the handle that, like most MP-style figures, fit into slots on his palms.  What's nice, though, is that Phoenix has the finger articulation to properly wrap his fingers and thumb around the handle while slipping his index finger up into the trigger guard.  The gun stays in his hand pretty securely, so no complaints there.

Phoenix transforms from a big robot to a huge jet.  Without a ruler or measuring tap handy I'd venture that his wing span is probably about the same as his length from nose to rear.  And if you set Phoenix so he's standing on his rear (something he does with no problem) a Gigapower dinobot like Graviter will only come up to the panel for the faction symbol.  As big as he is, though, MP Soundwave is too big to lay on his nose, and you won't be posing MP Ratchet on his wing. 

I have to give FansToys some serious kudos, too, because Phoenix uses a lot of simple yet clever engineering.  His thrusters get longer, his backpack gets wider, his wings get longer (both side-to-side and front-to-back).  The resulting jet is more solid, more cohesive, and more cartoon-accurate than either Kronos or Sky Guardian, yet the transformation is fairly easy, intuitive, and fun... pretty much the exact opposite of all FT's subsequent releases.  Pretty much the only negative I can come up with is that the indented section on the front of his backpack isn't screen-accurate and that his nose is a little too long, but both of those things are pretty small potatoes.  I'd have also maybe liked some paint for the intakes on the side of his nose, but given that's the underside of his wrists in robot mode I can't fault FT for erring on the side of robot mode accuracy.

Due to transformation the wings are variable; in all my pictures they're swept back as far as they go, but you can just as easily have them straight out to the sides or even sweep them forward.  A little yellow paint on the tips marks his position lights (although technically the one on his left wing should be red and the one in the above picture on his right wing should be green).  The cockpit can open, and there are two molded chrome seats inside (the second canopy on his backpack doesn't open).  He's got working landing gear, complete with rolling wheels.

You can peg Phoenix's gun to the inside of his right leg while he's in jet mode.  It's not symmetrical, and the barrels jut out the back instead of pointing forward like a VF-1's gunpod.  It kind of feels like an afterthought, but at least there is some sort of weapon storage for alt mode.

One thing I find curious is that his thrusters are on his backpack and that his feet fold up tight.  This is, I believe, cartoon-accurate.  However, he has thrusters in his heels.  These thrusters are apparently just a nice little detail for robot mode.

In jet mode, a diecast bar unfolds from the nose and tabs into the top of his robot crotch.  This diecast bar has a slit in it.  If you swapped out the top of the stand that comes with Sovereign with the part that comes with Phoenix, the fin on to top fits into the slit on the diecast bar, allowing Phoenix to set securely on the stand.  This only works with jet mode, though; if there's a way to put him on the stand in robot mode I haven't found it.

At this point you can probably figure out that I don't think Phoenix is a perfect figure.  His articulation is fairly limited, I think FansToys was cheap to only give you part of a stand instead of a whole stand, and this is the least paint I've seen on a FansToys figure since Tesla.  That said, Skyfire is a big scientist with a big backpack in the cartoon, so I'd argue that more dynamic poses aren't necessarily in character, and expressive hands kind of make up for it the lack of articulation from the waist down.  And I do happen to own Sovereign, whom I think needs a stand a lot less than Phoenix does.  As for the lack of paint, well, he's mostly made of white plastic, but it's not like his colors are wrong.

And then we have to consider his positives.  Paint or not, he's got excellent aesthetics in both modes.  The materials are good, and the joint tolerances are perfect (even if some of the friction joints are a little squeaky).  The engineering is smart and effective yet simple and intuitive, so transforming him is easy and fun.  After buying figures like Rouge and Spindrift (and passing of stuff like Koot and Apache) I give FansToys a hard time, accusing them of using a ton of paint and diecast to create a premium feel that masks the fact that they're often over-engineered and not particularly fun to mess with.  I was seriously wondering why so many people seem to hold FansToys up as the gold standard for 3P toys.  Even Sovereign, whom I think nails Galvatron's robot look in a brick of a figure with gorgeous purple paint and has enough articulation for some really fantastic poses is still a chore to transform.  Now, I imagine when people are talking about how great FansToys is they're probably thinking of toys like Phoenix.  Now, I don't own every FansToys release- in fact, without Quakewave or their Dinobots a case could probably be made that I've skipped some of their best releases.  However, of the FT figures that I do have (Phoenix, the Insecticons, Spindrift, Tesla, Sovereign, Lupus, and Rouge) I think Phoenix is unequivocally the best.  Highly recommended.

Great Review!

[derex3592]

I new I should have bought him when he came out...just SO big though! 

[Scyla]

So I had the time to check out FTs Lupus and Rouge. They are absolutely a disappointment with limited articulation, questionable engineering decisions and  a general laziness on FansToys part.

I think FT is banking on people just pulling out the toys in robot mode, put them in a slightly dynamic/neutral pose and leave them as is since this seems to be the MO of many Masterpiece collectors. In that regard both toys function pretty well but it is not what I want from my transforming robots.

Besides the presence there are other positive things like good paint and materials (love the green plastic/paint on Lupus) and some nifty engineering like how the hind legs on Lupus transform to become the robot feet. Of course here the laziness comes into play again since the feed do not really work since they have limited range of movement in both modes and provides an uneven stand since the hind legs don't fold in all the way.

At the moment my FT hype curve is on a down swing from "best thing since sliced bread" to "worst transforming robots in the market". Gonna be exciting to see how this will turn out with the next few releases. 

[technoblue]

43 minutes ago, Scyla said:

So I had the time to check out FTs Lupus and Rouge. They are absolutely a disappointment with limited articulation, questionable engineering decisions and  a general laziness on FansToys part.

I think FT is banking on people just pulling out the toys in robot mode, put them in a slightly dynamic/neutral pose and leave them as is since this seems to be the MO of many Masterpiece collectors. In that regard both toys function pretty well but it is not what I want from my transforming robots.

Besides the presence there are other positive things like good paint and materials (love the green plastic/paint on Lupus) and some nifty engineering like how the hind legs on Lupus transform to become the robot feet. Of course here the laziness comes into play again since the feed do not really work since they have limited range of movement in both modes and provides an uneven stand since the hind legs don't fold in all the way.

At the moment my FT hype curve is on a down swing from "best thing since sliced bread" to "worst transforming robots in the market". Gonna be exciting to see how this will turn out with the next few releases. 

I have to agree that FansToys seems to be moving to more statuesque 3P Transformers that sacrifice a fun transformation gimmick to get the look right. I know some fans are not bothered by that at all, but for me if a figure includes the gimmick then that adds a lot to the fun value as well. Of the FT figures that I do own, I would say Quakewave and the Dibots strike the best balance between fun and aesthetics. I don't mind that the older releases like Quakewave, Scoria, and Sever sacrifice some cartoon cues to keep the transformation fun and clever.

The only other FT releases that I own are Apache, Koot, Rouge, and Sovereign. From this group, Sovereign is definitely the top pick. I started noticing FT adding an obvious fiddle factor, as emgo describes it or over-engineering as Mike describes it, with Apache and Koot. Apache was okay, but for the leg transformation which is a bit of a mess. Koot was okay but had some steps which foreshadowed the bending plastic parts around other plastic parts that they decided to implement with Rouge.

Ironically, the plastic origami wasn't what gave me my wake-up call. It was those horrible die-cast chest parts. Rouge was the first time I've seen FT mess up die-cast parts so spectacularly. Not only is the gimmick useless, due to the toon accurate chest not tabbing in, but the different tolerances of the two pieces also cause the paint to rub. I'm not sure how this was missed by the QC team. For me the paint started rubbing/flaking off in the first five minutes of handling. Oh well. 

[Tking22]

Yeah I love me some FansToys, but honestly, outside Phoenix and their incredible dinos I really haven't had very much fun with their figures. Willis is a prime example for me, G1 Hound to a T, undeniably so I'd say, but he has stupid joints, like a screw for his back and forth foot tilt, and his transformation is the most unintuitive, irritating, backwards garbage I think I may have ever seen. Quakwave is fine, basic enough, my buddy Rex bought their Kup and Arcee and damn, that was a mess to say the least. I get it, most bots from the movie are like G1 Megatron, two modes that don't lend well to a real physical transformation, but still. While his Arcee was in bot mode on the shelf, I messed with and WATCHED him transform Kup, and that looked really, really not fun at all.

Terminus Giganticus aka Omega Supreme is another. I passed on Gabriel by DX9 for a number of reasons, base mode being a major point for me personally, Gabriel has an awful looking base mode with an awful looking tank. FansToys nailed the base mode and tank, but getting the figure there is again, a mess. Okay the body and head are fine, but the legs are supremely fiddly, to the point that I have to take a break usually out of frustration. I know where everything goes, it's just not easy getting everything there. Sovereign is great, beautiful figure, but that transformation sucks, and his alt mode isn't even anything to write home about once you actually get him there.

They do make really good looking bots no doubt, and usually alt modes look pretty on point as well, but it's gotten to the point that actually transforming their figures feels like a chore, and most of the time even if I want to check out the mode a figure isn't currently in, I won't bother just because it's not fun. Base mode and bot mode on TG are great, but I really don't go between the two often because those legs are just too damn fiddly.

[Scyla]

I actually think that Koots transformation is not that bad. FT messed up by molding in a useless ridge that prevents the side parts to rotate for enough clearance. There are some tutorials that show how to mod Koot to provide a less troublesome transformation. 

[technoblue]

1 hour ago, Scyla said:

I actually think that Koots transformation is not that bad. FT messed up by molding in a useless ridge that prevents the side parts to rotate for enough clearance. There are some tutorials that show how to mod Koot to provide a less troublesome transformation. 

True, but the fact that we have to mod Koot says a lot about how FansToys has changed the direction of their modern designs (outside of the dinos).

1 hour ago, Tking22 said:

Yeah I love me some FansToys, but honestly, outside Phoenix and their incredible dinos I really haven't had very much fun with their figures. Willis is a prime example for me, G1 Hound to a T, undeniably so I'd say, but he has stupid joints, like a screw for his back and forth foot tilt, and his transformation is the most unintuitive, irritating, backwards garbage I think I may have ever seen. Quakwave is fine, basic enough, my buddy Rex bought their Kup and Arcee and damn, that was a mess to say the least. I get it, most bots from the movie are like G1 Megatron, two modes that don't lend well to a real physical transformation, but still. While his Arcee was in bot mode on the shelf, I messed with and WATCHED him transform Kup, and that looked really, really not fun at all.

 I forgot about Willis. I have Willis and Gun Dog. Gun Dog, for all the stylistic choices Maketoys made in the looks department, is a lot more fun. I'm not as upset with Willis as I am with Rouge, say, but I won't deny he has a high fiddle factor too. Getting all the junk stuffed into his chest in bot mode isn't fun. It's another instance where the transformation has to be done exactly one way in order to clear all obstacles. Gun Dog remains out on the desk where I can transform him back and forth when I want to. Willis remains behind glass where I'll probably never touch him again until I move.

[mikeszekely]

I try to be as objective as I can and review each figure individually on its own merits, but FansToys has always been overrated to me.  Quakewave gets a lot of respect from me for basically being the first 3P MP figure, their Dinobots seem pretty cool (but I ultimately decided to go with Gigapower), and then it was kind of downhill from there as they've made toys that look good in neutral poses on a shelf but aren't particularly fun to mess with.  As others have noted, yeah, there's definitely a crowd that FansToys' approach appeals to, but other companies like Maketoys, Generation Toy, and Fans Hobby are making toys that look nearly as good but are much more dynamic and have transformations that don't suck all the fun out of the room.  I've already picked Maketoys over FansToys on Hound and Reflector and I've got no regrets in either case.  Of all the FansToys figures I have picked up I'd say Sovereign and Phoenix are the only ones I truly love, and of those Sovereign still has a pain-in-the-rear transformation and Phoenix has limited articulation.  When I handle those two I can at least see how FansToys built their reputation, but after stuff like Koot, Rouge (pains with horrible engineering), Apache (horrible engineering and limited articulation), Tesla (brittle plastic, no paint or diecast, phoned-in alt mode), and Spindrift (not hard but still over-engineered, robot mode doesn't capture the character) I don't think they'd crack my top 5 3P companies right now.  

[Tking22]

Lol I totally forgot about Spotter/Reflector, I have him too. Oddly enough, I REALLY enjoy their transformation. It is indeed fiddly as well, but I oddly kind of think of them as a combiner as well, so maybe that makes it feel a little different to me. Something about folding them into little boxes then putting them together is fun for me, but as I said, it too is more fiddly then I would like, folding the legs up gives most folks a lot of trouble.

[M'Kyuun]

Great review on Phoenix, Mike. I can forgive some of the limitations on articulation, as the character wasn't exactly a ninja in the show, even making a quip in one ep about how he was too darn big to be sneaking around (first season ep 'Fire on the Mountain'). As to the character, I think FT absolutely nailed it, toon inconsistencies be damned. As for paint, I think they did a judicious job of applying the silver paint to mechanical details on the chest and ankles- it breaks up the white a bit and looks appropriate, and the red paint follows the toon look well. Thus far, he and the Dibots(with Perfect Fusion Cesium as my Slag)  are my only FT figures, and I can recommend any of them sincerely and happily. Excellent, FUN, toys, all around. Phoenix, as I've mentioned before, is a Holy Grail figure for me; that it's as good as it is: aesthetics, great transformation (that integrates the arms beautifully), presence, sculpt, paint, etc, made him a dream toy that I had to have. His price tag is steep, but if you like Skyfire as depicted in the show, I'll opine that this is the figure to beat. 

As for the FT devotion, it's something I'm aware of peripherally. I haven't personally dealt with any cult members thus far, but I know there are folks who are somewhat fanatical about their every release, as if they were made of Divine ABS. That said, I'm happy with my 6 FT figures, but I'm not going to blindly buy all their stuff, or choose them arbitrarily. I choose everything I buy for its individual merits- does it do what I want it to do, and is the transformation reasonable? Other than Eligos and Aplloyon, whose transformations I find a bit arduous (both happen to be XTransbots, but I don't know that all their stuff is like that, having no experience beyond the aforementioned figures), I'd say that most of my other third party figures are fun to transform. As I get older, and my patience threshold diminishes, I find I'm liking 'intuitive' transformations, with good clearances, logical progression, no bending parts, and a decent complexity without becoming over-excessive. These things should be fun- if it's a dread to transform, then a lot of what's fun about these toys in particular, becomes muted with frustration and anger. I like transforming them to be a stress reliever, not an inducer.

 

[Dangard Ace]

I’ve got FT Phoenix and as much as I like the overall toy I will never like the head.  The face should be longer and the cheeks are wrong.   

For Omega I stick with Gabe.  FT TG looks better as a Sentinel bot imo.  

 

[tekering]

I do love me some Gabriel!   

[Kuma Style]

[Kuma Style]

[Silverstreak]

21 hours ago, tekering said:

I do love me some Gabriel!   

It's brilliant isn't it?

I originally had the FT Omega and while initially impressed, I ended up selling it as all the little nitpicks and QC issues I had with it added up. I managed to get Gabriel last weekend as a regret sale and for what I paid, $230USD, I am happy. The elbows on mine are a little tight but apart from that, I have no QC issues. And I enjoy the aesthetic of Gabriel far more than TG. While I think that TG has by a considerable margin the more cohesive alt mode, this is by far the better overall Omega Supreme.

[tekering]

1 hour ago, Silverstreak said:

While I think that TG has by a considerable margin the more cohesive alt mode, this is by far the better overall Omega Supreme.

That would seem to be the majority consensus: "Gabriel" provides a better robot mode, and "Terminus Gigantus" provides a better alt. mode.

I'm in no hurry to transform my MP Omega Supreme -- it's hard enough to make space for in robot mode! -- so "Gabriel" completely satisfies me.  

[M'Kyuun]

I was never a fan of G1 Omega Supreme, but as such things go, Gabriel looks pretty good.

Respectable collection; nice mix of 3P and official. Looks like you just need Cliffjumper to finish off the original '84 cast. So what's your Decepticon shelf look like?

 

[tekering]

14 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

So what's your Decepticon shelf look like?

About what you'd expect -- more purple, more green, more jets.  

14 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Looks like you just need Cliffjumper to finish off the original '84 cast.

ACE-01 "Tumbler" would make a fine Masterpiece Cliffjumper, if only he had a decent face sculpt... but alas, that ship has sailed.

Maybe XTB's "Toro" will fare better...  

[M'Kyuun]

Impressive collection; mine envy runneth over. Somehow, I missed Constructor on the top shelf there on my first look; you're brave putting such a top heavy , and just plain heavy, figure up there. Unfortunately, I have nowhere to display mine combined, so they remain in my ad-hoc display case (china cabinet) until I can get a Detolf or two. 

Of the three 3P MP scaled Cliffjumpers out there, I'd say XTransbots are closest to home on the bot mode, and their car mode is good. MMC did good capturing the chibi car look, but their bot is chubby with arms that are proportionally too small. Kudos to them for giving the car mode a realistic interior, though. I like engineering like that. If his arms were bigger, he'd be my first choice, if I were considering buying one of these guys. Tumbler's a nice looking figure, too. It has some really impressive articulation. The face is a bit too wide, but otherwise, his bot and car modes both look good.

All of them offer something cool, depending on what you're looking for. And who knows, TT may surprise us someday with an official version. Wouldn't hold my breath, though.

[ScrambledValkyrie]

On 5/23/2018 at 6:53 PM, anime52k8 said:

Skybite was the single best thing about Car Robots IMO.

Well, if we're talking CR, then it'd be Gel Shark, no? But yeah, Skybite's character was definitely one of the highlights of RID. I don't recall him being quite as over the top in the CR original, though it's been a while since I've seen it.

[Tking22]

On 5/29/2018 at 12:18 AM, tekering said:

About what you'd expect -- more purple, more green, more jets.  

 

ACE-01 "Tumbler" would make a fine Masterpiece Cliffjumper, if only he had a decent face sculpt... but alas, that ship has sailed.

Maybe XTB's "Toro" will fare better...  

I'd recommend Ace Tumbler if you don't really care about CJ and can find him for the steal that I did, $27 shipped. He's a crappy figure, floppy, badly placed diecast, but he was dirt cheap and looks CJ enough for most people. Personally I am waiting on Toro to drop, he has in hand pictures out and while he does have a huge camping backpack, he looks head and shoulders above the MMC version IMO. I consider myself a toon first guy, but that penny racer chibi alt mode looks frakking ridiculous, it won't match a single other alt mode in an MP collection, the only somewhat chibi alt mode I can think of on an MP figure third party or official is Badcube Grump/Gears, his alt mode is quite chibi, more then I would like, but his alt mode was never really a specific distinguishable vehicle anyway so I give it a pass. MMC in alt mode next to MP Bee will look ridiculous, unless you don't use MP Bee and have a third party version instead, but even then, nobody else is making MP minibots that have chibi alt modes, it's just a really weird decision on MMC's part.

[mikeszekely]

42 minutes ago, Tking22 said:

I'd recommend Ace Tumbler if you don't really care about CJ and can find him for the steal that I did, $27 shipped. He's a crappy figure, floppy, badly placed diecast, but he was dirt cheap and looks CJ enough for most people. Personally I am waiting on Toro to drop, he has in hand pictures out and while he does have a huge camping backpack, he looks head and shoulders above the MMC version IMO. I consider myself a toon first guy, but that penny racer chibi alt mode looks frakking ridiculous, it won't match a single other alt mode in an MP collection, the only somewhat chibi alt mode I can think of on an MP figure third party or official is Badcube Grump/Gears, his alt mode is quite chibi, more then I would like, but his alt mode was never really a specific distinguishable vehicle anyway so I give it a pass. MMC in alt mode next to MP Bee will look ridiculous, unless you don't use MP Bee and have a third party version instead, but even then, nobody else is making MP minibots that have chibi alt modes, it's just a really weird decision on MMC's part.

Hellion's semi-chibi alt is a selling point to me. Until well into adulthood I assumed Cliff turned into some kind of '80s-era Japanese kei car. I think MMC put enough detail in it that it fits in fine.

Besides, while I do play with my toys from time to time they're mostly displayed in robot mode, and Toro's backpack is a huge strike against it there. Then there's this picture, which could be the money shot that seals the deal in favor of Hellion for me.

[Kuma Style]

MakeToys GunDog is coming tomorrow and I could not be more excited. The next on my checklist are an Omega Supreme and Ocular Max's CJ. 

[Tking22]

2 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

Hellion's semi-chibi alt is a selling point to me. Until well into adulthood I assumed Cliff turned into some kind of '80s-era Japanese kei car. I think MMC put enough detail in it that it fits in fine.

Besides, while I do play with my toys from time to time they're mostly displayed in robot mode, and Toro's backpack is a huge strike against it there. Then there's this picture, which could be the money shot that seals the deal in favor of Hellion for me.

 

Can I ask why the chibi alt mode is a selling point? I get that it looks like CJ's alt mode in the cartoon, but Takara's only MP minibot and most of Badcube's minibot releases have all had "realistic" alt modes (except Gears/Grump like I mentioned above) despite appearing chibi in the cartoon itself. I also usually remember you not being the biggest straight off the screen toon fan like me. No arguments the backpack cleans up much nicer, but I would attribute that to not having a full sized "realistic" alt mode, it SHOULD have a cleaner bot due to having to hide and transform less car. No gripes from me, thanks to third party, as usual, we have several options for a decent MP CJ.

2 hours ago, Kuma Style said:

MakeToys GunDog is coming tomorrow and I could not be more excited. The next on my checklist are an Omega Supreme and Ocular Max's CJ. 

I LOOOOVE my FT Willis, but there's zero denying Gundog is a fun toy, with a pretty fun and MUCH more intuitive transformation then Willis. I've handled, and even borrowed for a few days, my buddy Rex's Gundog, once again, MakeToys making figures that are fun to transform and pose. And once again, aesthetically, FT nails it but flubs on making an actual fun figure with a fun transformation.

[mikeszekely]

2 hours ago, Tking22 said:

Can I ask why the chibi alt mode is a selling point? I get that it looks like CJ's alt mode in the cartoon, but Takara's only MP minibot and most of Badcube's minibot releases have all had "realistic" alt modes (except Gears/Grump like I mentioned above) despite appearing chibi in the cartoon itself. I also usually remember you not being the biggest straight off the screen toon fan like me. No arguments the backpack cleans up much nicer, but I would attribute that to not having a full sized "realistic" alt mode, it SHOULD have a cleaner bot due to having to hide and transform less car. No gripes from me, thanks to third party, as usual, we have several options for a decent MP CJ.

It's not really about cartoon accuracy or trying to match chibi vehicles with other chibi vehicles (although my MP Bumblebee is ToyWorld's Bii). It goes back to what I said earlier about thinking Cliff was a kei car for so long. Today, I can rationally understand that Cliffjumper came from a choro-q car based on a Porsche, but to me he never actually was a Porsche, so Hellion looks more "correct" to me. Same as Bii looks more correct to me while the official us too long and too narrow.

As for the other mini bots, Richthofen is fine (and certainly not looking like an actual A-10, Brawny needs bigger fenders, Huff seems fine to me, Klaatu has a bit of a backpack and some kibble around his elbows but I think he's fine, and neither Seaspray I have really gets him (but I'm pulling for Neptune). I don't have any other MP-style minibots, but I'd be fine picking up Arkose for Beachcomber and Grump for Gears if I could still find them. So it's really just Windcharger left (I'm not sure my collection needs some of the repaints/remolds like Hubcap, Outback, or Pipes). I'd buy Boost to cross him off my list, but I'd rather someone else do one with big wheels and the cartoon-style front end (and a bigger robot mode head).

[Tking22]

32 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

It's not really about cartoon accuracy or trying to match chibi vehicles with other chibi vehicles (although my MP Bumblebee is ToyWorld's Bii). It goes back to what I said earlier about thinking Cliff was a kei car for so long. Today, I can rationally understand that Cliffjumper came from a choro-q car based on a Porsche, but to me he never actually was a Porsche, so Hellion looks more "correct" to me. Same as Bii looks more correct to me while the official us too long and too narrow.

As for the other mini bots, Richthofen is fine (and certainly not looking like an actual A-10, Brawny needs bigger fenders, Huff seems fine to me, Klaatu has a bit of a backpack and some kibble around his elbows but I think he's fine, and neither Seaspray I have really gets him (but I'm pulling for Neptune). I don't have any other MP-style minibots, but I'd be fine picking up Arkose for Beachcomber and Grump for Gears if I could still find them. So it's really just Windcharger left (I'm not sure my collection needs some of the repaints/remolds like Hubcap, Outback, or Pipes). I'd buy Boost to cross him off my list, but I'd rather someone else do one with big wheels and the cartoon-style front end (and a bigger robot mode head).

I see, makes sense. Definitely seems like MMC has you covered then :).

I was mostly referring to car based minibots, and mostly by Badcube. I like the blend they went with, I love their minibots. I'm skipping minibots after season 1, so I probably won't bother with a Cosmo, Seaspray, Powerglide, or Beachcomber. Definitely agreed on Boost by Xtransbots, he is the only MP Windchager on the market so I feel myself and many, many others settled. He looks good aesthetically, but his transformation is dumb with horrible clearances, but once again, I really love those realistic minibot alt modes.

[M'Kyuun]

I also like the chibi look of Hellion, even if it's not a perfect fit with the rest of the MP figures. My only gripe is that his arms look a little on the small side proportionally. With only pics to go by, his engineering looks to be impressive as well, esp in a smaller figure. And he cleans up really well. Waiting for video reviews to see how he stacks up, as the more I see of him, the more he appeals. 

If real world car mode and toon accurate bot are what you're after, though, it looks like XTransbots are the ones to beat, backpack notwithstanding. Looks lovely in pics.

Honestly, it wouldn't have really bothered me if TT had gone with a more chibi look for their Bumblebee, as that's how both the toy and his cartoon incarnations looked. I'm guessing Bee had to be a realistic looking Beetle due to licensing; however, the rest of the minis are nondescript enough that TT could likely go the more toon accurate route with the rest of them, if they ever decide to make any more. In the meantime, the third party guys are doing a nice job filling in the gaps, and the fact that they all seem to take different approaches provides options, depending on one's sensibilities. 

[Kuma Style]

Honestly Hellion is so "perfect" to me in bot mode except for that exposed, gray waist section. It's painful because it's eye-sore'ish for me on top of being that one thing that takes it away from just 10/10 aesthetically for me. Still the one I'm going with because it's the best of the bunch to me but that little piece just really brings me down about it.