The Unlicensed Third Party Transformers Thread

[slaginpit]

Apologies if the topic exists but I did do a search and nothing came up

so for starters I cant wait for this to come up

And I really like the TFC add on parts, Makes it still superior to the Maketoys version

TFC Camera guys

Really another BB statue

Maketoys Gift Set Giant version

Not sure what this is from Maketoys

[Benson13]

Those things are amazing. How much do these projects typically cost?

Edited May 26, 2012 by Benson13

[anime52k8]

ridiculous image spam aside, we've already got a transformers thread: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=36540

[slaginpit]

ridiculous image spam aside, we've already got a transformers thread: http://www.macrosswo...showtopic=36540

Why is everyone here high on their horse???? Yes you have a transformers thread this is a Third Party Thread...

wow talk about snobbery, why i only limit myself to this site once a week

[EXO]

I find most of these 3rd party TF toys more interesting and suits my taste. Unfortunately they also fit in with the type of budget that suits my interest and taste. Most of them are more G1 than the actual Hasbro toys and seem to be engineered for collectors.

Has anyone seen our very own Maiden Japan's Bludgeon upgrade?

Why is everyone here high on their horse???? Yes you have a transformers thread this is a Third Party Thread...

wow talk about snobbery, why i only limit myself to this site once a week

How do you get "everyone" from one post?

[Sam]

thanks for all the pics in one spot. I like them more than general release figures at the moment, and have the yellow maketoys version coming. That camera looks pretty neat as well!

Ginrai is very cool, something a little off with the head though, kinda wished it was a little bulkier? In the comics he was a really chunky guy, so would probably have preferred a bit more meat so to speak, but still very cool!

[David Hingtgen]

I really don't think we need a *dedicated* 3rd-party TF thread. All previous 3rd-party discussion has been in the main thread.

PS---all those pics, and none of the upcoming Not-Fireflight from Super Ion? Of all items, I'd think that the transforming jet would appeal most to the Macross fans here...

[eugimon]

How do you get "everyone" from one post?

[Renato]

Why is everyone here high on their horse???? Yes you have a transformers thread this is a Third Party Thread...

wow talk about snobbery, why i only limit myself to this site once a week

I agree: While I'm not the biggest fan of Transformers, I have never understood why there are often three threads about Mospeada in this forum which is a tiny show everyone has forgotten about, and yet there is only one (until-recently "pinned") TF thread which somehow has to include an extremely broad range of discussion based on a wealth of news regarding toys/figures/comics/TVshows which increases every DAY.

I really don't think we need a *dedicated* 3rd-party TF thread. All previous 3rd-party discussion has been in the main thread.

I think we need one -- there is not necessarily a huge overlap between the people who like the official items and those who are interested in 3rd-party stuff: myself being one example.

PS---all those pics, and none of the upcoming Not-Fireflight from Super Ion? Of all items, I'd think that the transforming jet would appeal most to the Macross fans here...

So, wanna share?

As for Ginrai -- I like the robot mode, but... What is up with that truck mode? Robot in bad disguise.

Edited May 27, 2012 by Renato

[David Hingtgen]

So, wanna share?

Yeah, I'll just re-post the ones that were discussed in the main all-encompassing TF thread.

Makes me glad I passed on Hercules---I can spend the money on this.

[Renato]

Oh. I thought they were actual real, visible photos of the items. Too early for me to have any opinion on those.. Thanks anyway, though.

[slaginpit]

I find most of these 3rd party TF toys more interesting and suits my taste. Unfortunately they also fit in with the type of budget that suits my interest and taste. Most of them are more G1 than the actual Hasbro toys and seem to be engineered for collectors.

Has anyone seen our very own Maiden Japan's Bludgeon upgrade?

How do you get "everyone" from one post?

Not all but a lot Im not counting you ...

[David Hingtgen]

Oh. I thought they were actual real, visible photos of the items. Too early for me to have any opinion on those.. Thanks anyway, though.

Still a lot better than not mentioning them at all.

And Shin and I already have a heck of an opinion---it's a transforming F-4 Phantom toy! That alone is worth buying. Being part of a gestalt is just gravy.

[VFTF1]

Dag. That Powermaster Optimus Prime rendition is just awesome....but I haven't seen that anywhere for sale...or for pre-order...although I shudder to think how much all of that would cost!

Pete

[slaginpit]

Those things are amazing. How much do these projects typically cost?

Considering I have most of the Fans Project, the cho cho ka cho Prime and now the TFC Devy along with the Igear jets and camera combiners the average price for a single figure is around 100 to 150 dollars. That is counting the Devy as well. I consider these the ultimate of transformers because they are executed with care and high quality. Unlike some of the other Robot mecha ie Mazinkiser or others that SOC, Max Factory,CMs and others make. Licensing isnt so liberal in the US so these things should remain underground but they seem to be pushing the boundary of license infringement but I really dont care since Hasbro isnt doing much in the way for the fans.

As of late I am a little frustrated by the ferocity of prototypes coming out before their first announced figure has even hit the market; case in point the 3rd Party Megatron

Which I have on pre-order and should be coming out shortly

its not out yet but they already announced some kind of new Prime figure

Im curious what figures people have here?

Anyone have these on order

This one is out but I have the pink one on pre-order

And I dont know why Igear has delayed this figure yet again, could it be Hasbro ??

Dag. That Powermaster Optimus Prime rendition is just awesome....but I haven't seen that anywhere for sale...or for pre-order...although I shudder to think how much all of that would cost!

Pete

Wont be on pre-order until least the late summer. Still in development working out the kinks

Edited May 27, 2012 by slaginpit

[Renato]

the cho cho ka cho Prime

Who say what now?

Im curious what figures people have here?

I have the FansProject DIA Commander, and I love it. That's the only 3rd party thing I own, but I have friends who have the enormous Devastator and the FP Bruticus and they are amazing pieces.

I want to eventually get the Perfect Effect Reflector but I'm still saving up... It's a lot of cash for such a tiny thing.

[David Hingtgen]

I currently own nothing, but plan to buy Super Ion. (especially since my budget for 2012 from Hasbro is basically zero---I'm getting JP-release Sideswipe from Takara, but that'll be it I think for official stuff---since FOC Bruticus sucks and sucks hard, and Prime Knockout is simply painted WRONG)

[anime52k8]

I find a lot of the hobby cheapening, IP infringing, unlicensed transformers figures out their to be pretty interesting, but I've never purchased one. The thing about them is that they all run into the same price range that stuff like Macross toys occupy, and I just can't bring myself to buy transformers for that kind of money when I can get them for $15 at target. My favorite thing about transformers is being able to go to a store, get excited because I found something hunting for, and then buy it for less than $20.

As for the stuff posted in this thread:

Xovergen Not-Super Ginrai: Frankly, I find it hideously ugly; much like the original Super Ginrai. Also, the fact that Xovergen's only other product to date was an absolute piece of crap does not bode well for this thing succeeding.

Rage of Hercules: Paying a $100 on top of the $600 a Hercules set is already going to cost just to remove one of the most interesting features of the set somehow doesn't grab me all that much. I'd love a Hercules, but there's no way I'm dumping $600 on any toy (even if it is technically 6 toys).

Maketoy Giant: honestly, I like it. I like the fact that it's cheaper than Hercules and that it feels more like a modern classics/generations toy than Hercules does. but it still costs close to $400 and that's a lot of money.

TFC Not-Reflector: I think Perfect Effect's scouting force X was way more interesting, and had a lot more character to it's design.

Maketoy Powercore combiner thing: I have no idea what it's supposed to be but it's cool, and I like that fact that third parties are doing stuff with powercore (which was really cool in concept if not execution).

TFC Not-Superion: SQUEEE!!!

whoever-the-heck-is-making-it Hegemon (Not-Megatron): That sure is translucent orange plastic making up most of his major joints. That'll go over about as well as handing a hand grenade to an monkey.

TW-02: that sure is a black silhouette that looks vaguely like Optimus Prime...

MMC Not-Hearts of steel Shockwave. I really love shockwave and that's a pretty awesome looking toy, but $150 plus shipping is awefully close to what the VF-171EX is going to cost me and I think it's pretty clear which one wins that argument.

Perfect effect Not-Arcee: I kind of dig it, but don't want to pay for it.

iGear Not-Ratchet: There's something dirty about buying anything from iGear, especially wen you consider that their Not-ratchet/ironhide is bassically just a re-skinned universe inferno.

Edited May 27, 2012 by anime52k8

[David Hingtgen]

Justitoys just showed this:

I never had the complete G1 Predaking, and never bothered with the re-issue. Probably wouldn't get this, but it may be OMGWTFBBQ for some people.

I'm pretty sure one shoulder cannon is omitted in each of the bot mode drawings for clarity. I assume they're the "toes" for leg mode, harkening back to the original.

[GMANIFESS]

oh.. wow....

Predaking is one of the few G1 toys i never had...

The original Predacons done properly.... i may have to bite on this. But only if he is atleast 12" tall combined. Always hated how small the G1 combiners were.

I hope it hits in 2013, cuz 2012 has my collecting money spent. Between Voltron Classics, Masterpiece TF's, Metal Gear Rex & 30th Macross...

[JB0]

Man, I'd still LOVE to have that Powermaster Prime(it comes with it's own core now instead of being an upgrade?). It'd be the toy I THOUGHT I was getting all those years ago. Man, PM Prime was such a disappointment. I think it hit about when I started wanting to do more than wave them over my head and make laser noises with my mouth.

I can't justify the cost to fix the years of disappointment, though.

[Metal_Massacre_79]

Two questions:

1. Why aren't these people working for Hasbro, since they are clearly better at making transforming toys?
   
2. Where the hell do you people get the money to support such expensive habits?
   

With a wife, child, house and two cars, there's no way I could afford to get any of this stuff. I just about ruined my pants over the 3rd party Devastator, but my stomach turned over the price.

[JB0]

Don't look at me. I'm not hte one buying these things. I just drool on the keyboard a little.

[Renato]

Two questions:

1. Why aren't these people working for Hasbro, since they are clearly better at making transforming toys?
   
2. Where the hell do you people get the money to support such expensive habits?
   

With a wife, child, house and two cars, there's no way I could afford to get any of this stuff. I just about ruined my pants over the 3rd party Devastator, but my stomach turned over the price.

I have two answers:

1) In a nutshell, Hasbro have to meet strict child safety laws, thus stifling a lot of the design elements, while these 3rd parties do not, so they have free reign over materials and design/engineering choices.

2) I don't know, but they're more or less in the same price range as the Chogokin/Valkyrie/Hot Toys figures for hardcore collectors, so those are the types of people that are being naturally targeted. Like I said earlier, there is not necessarily a great deal of crossover between the typical Transformer fans who buy every $10 Bumblebee at Walmart and high-grade toy enthusiasts who forgo smaller purchases to save up for one piece they really want every few months or so.

[kanedaestes]

I sell drugs to the community......lol. Also I have the Fansproject City Commander, Warbot Defender (Springer) and I am looking to pick up Hercules soon as well as an Arcee.

[TheLoneWolf]

I find a lot of the hobby cheapening, IP infringing, unlicensed transformers figures out their to be pretty interesting, but I've never purchased one. The thing about them is that they all run into the same price range that stuff like Macross toys occupy

That's pretty much what I was thinking. These toys are nearly as complex as Yamato Valkyries, and just about as expensive too. Except that Yamato has a lot of overhead that they have to factor into their prices: licensing costs, corporate taxes, legal expenses, office expenses, customer relations. Unlicensed Transformers are probably run by handful of guys out of a small apartment and don't have to worry about these types of expenses. So they're going to be pocketing a much much larger net profit from their products than Yamato does with theirs. That explains why these unlicensed Transformers are being cranked out at a furious pace. It's all about the money.

[Dangard Ace]

I'm only now just watching Masterforce and I'm liking the Super Ginrai. I might actually pick this version up since I always thought the original PM Prime was an ugly brick.

[VFTF1]

Regarding the price on these -

1) I think people over-estimate the market for these things. The hardcore TF collectors who would want this do not number into the zillions. Hasbro's TF appeal is that the toys are relatively cheap and creative and clever - there really aren't people tied to G1 amongst kids and mainstream collectors these days. So, these G1 based third party TFs are more expensive because I would guess they are not mass produced at anywhere near the amount that TFs are

2) Hasbro uses economies of scale and this lets prices be relatively lower. Third party probably doesn't have this benefit due to smaller demand

3) For me - there's a psychological blockade preventing me paying these prices...TFs were always cheap (relatively cheap), and lots of the Third-Party toys, while great, STILL tend to take design liberties...I dunno....

hard to say...

I think ultimately the nostalgia factor will win out and I'll go back to collecting G1 :-/

Pete

[kaiotheforsaken]

The only 3rd party thing I've ever bought was Warbot Defender. Springer just doesn't get toys made, at best we get repaints. The quality on him is nice and I don't regret scooping him up. But I probably wouldn't buy a product like this again. I'd rather just support Hasbro/Takara by getting official releases and shelling out for MPs over pricey 3rd party stuff.

Edited June 1, 2012 by kaiotheforsaken

[mass driver]

I love the Maketoy's non-devastator but given the choice between spending that kind of money on a third party transformer vs a Yamato valk or even a bandai valk, the valks always win.

I suppose this is again a matter of personal taste. I do have fond memories of transformers G1 though, hell even masterforce... When I was living overseas in Africa as an expat, my buddy who was the son of a wealthy oil company CEO had the power master optimus. A japanese transformers Dx toy. In Africa, pre- internet age.....God how I lusted over that thing.

[TheLoneWolf]

1) I think people over-estimate the market for these things. The hardcore TF collectors who would want this do not number into the zillions.

Just curious, but what do you think is the average production run for one of these?

[anime52k8]

Just curious, but what do you think is the average production run for one of these?

we don't get solid sales figures on any of these obviously, but it's probably ranges from under a hundred sets for more obscure add-ons to several thousand for the high profile stuff like Hercules or things from fans project. This is compared to a mainline run that will be in the high tens to even hundreds of thousands of figures.

[David Hingtgen]

I'd love to give a couple hundred dollars to Bandai for some Frontier valks--but they don't seem to want my money (nor anyone else's) lately. So I'll give it to TFC instead.

[anime52k8]

eh, I'm throwing all my Macross money at 3A lately.

[Renato]

That's pretty much what I was thinking. These toys are nearly as complex as Yamato Valkyries, and just about as expensive too. Except that Yamato has a lot of overhead that they have to factor into their prices: licensing costs, corporate taxes, legal expenses, office expenses, customer relations. Unlicensed Transformers are probably run by handful of guys out of a small apartment and don't have to worry about these types of expenses. So they're going to be pocketing a much much larger net profit from their products than Yamato does with theirs. That explains why these unlicensed Transformers are being cranked out at a furious pace. It's all about the money.

Well, they are getting more and more complex, and the companies are increasing in number. I would say a lot of the profit is being reinvested, and I'm guessing many of these companies are run by the same people.

we don't get solid sales figures on any of these obviously, but it's probably ranges from under a hundred sets for more obscure add-ons to several thousand for the high profile stuff like Hercules or things from fans project. This is compared to a mainline run that will be in the high tens to even hundreds of thousands of figures.

I don't think it's as much as "several thousand". I would say one thousand for Hercules is about right, or if anything, the maximum. This would also compare to average Yamato valkyrie runs these days. Again, this is just my guess, though.

Edited June 2, 2012 by Renato