Different Comanchero versions?

[coronadlux]

I was looking for someone who might want to get rid of their Moscato Comanchero, but no luck yet.

So I was starting to do some research into this helicopter. It seems that I found a few different versions of it.

To start off, here is a screen shot of a Comanchero looking copter from episode 1 in the macross Saga:

Big cannon in the middle, and seems to have a different tail rotor. Actually, a different tail altogether.The area where the engines are at, it only has 2 pods total.

Here is a few of the recognized images of the Comanchero:

Here is a screen shot of a passenger exiting the comanchero. Macross Saga, episode 20...

In the Palladium Robotech book 1, the description says that the copter has a crew of 3 and can accommodate 6.

In this episode, Rick and Max are talking about a Big Shot traveling on the helicopter.

Reading Moscato's old post on his scratch build of it, he mentions the size of it as being huge. About the size of the Soviet Hind.

Could it be possible that the Copter was used to transport troops, even if no doors are seen in the line drawings? What about that first image? Maybe an early version of the Comanchero?

I know that the soviet Hind does have at least 5 different versions.

It would be pretty cool to be able to have a few different versions of it. Even better to have a fleet to display.

Opinions are welcomed. and please be kind to this noob.

[sketchley]

So I was starting to do some research into this helicopter. It seems that I found a few different versions of it.

To start off, here is a screen shot of a Comanchero looking copter from episode 1 in the macross Saga:

Big cannon in the middle, and seems to have a different tail rotor. Actually, a different tail altogether.The area where the engines are at, it only has 2 pods total.

I don't think that's the Comanchero. It could be a derivative or predecessor, but the more I look at it, the more dissimilar it is (aside from the aforementioned differences, I see a different nose sensor, the rotor sensor is larger and under the rotor, different winglets (is that the right name for them?), different engine cowlings, and the left-and-right nose blisters have much larger openings with more greebles shoved inside (e.g.: there's no 3-barrel gun on the left side).

In the Palladium Robotech book 1, the description says that the copter has a crew of 3 and can accommodate 6.

I recommend ignoring Palladium material. Even if it is partially based on translations of the source material, without access to translations of the source material, its impossible to discern what is accurate and what is made up.

In this episode, Rick and Max are talking about a Big Shot traveling on the helicopter.

Reading Moscato's old post on his scratch build of it, he mentions the size of it as being huge. About the size of the Soviet Hind.

Could it be possible that the Copter was used to transport troops, even if no doors are seen in the line drawings? What about that first image? Maybe an early version of the Comanchero?

I don't believe it can carry anyone other than the pilot and the gunner. In Eps 20, I think the VIP traveller is seated where the gunner usually sits.

M:PM and MC both refer to the Commanchero as a combat-attack ship-borne helicopter.

I know that the soviet Hind does have at least 5 different versions.

It would be pretty cool to be able to have a few different versions of it. Even better to have a fleet to display.

It is an interesting idea - in that it is possible and there are presidents for it in Macross (look at all the variants of the VF-1, Destroid MBR-04 series), etc.. If the Commanchero is based on the Hind, then it's highly likely that other variants are probable.

[ahiachris]

Will Capatin make the other vesion of the Commanchero?

[coronadlux]

So Palladium is not really accurate and reliable? There is a difference in the copters. I just thought, what if one is part of the anti-unification force? Could be possible if technologies were shared before the war. Just like the first jets that appeared during the Korean conflict. The Soviet Migs looked similar to the american jets.

So what reference books are reliable? Does Studio Nue have any reference material available? Either online or in print.

I would like to try my hand at maybe building a few variants of this copter. I'm not sure if Captain America will recast his original Comanchero, or even try a variant of it. His skills are far better than my noob skills.

[Phyrox]

Most of Palladium stats and descriptions of minor mecha are simply made up, with little to no referrence to original designer intentions. The Commanchero crew description is clearly intended to reflect the Mi-24 crew chief + small squad accomodations, but the design itself shows no evidence that this was intended (where do they enter/exit from?

Also, I doubt that this drawing was consciously intended to represent an alternate version. The heli design is not very well developed in the series, the line art for it is pretty limited, and I'd bet the guy drawing that still just gave the design a look and didn't pay too much attention to minor deviations. It's a minor image, and it is still recognizable as a commanchero

"In-universe," sure, it's a varient. In real life, just a drawing that didn't adhere very closely to the other official line art.

[coronadlux]

Most of Palladium stats and descriptions of minor mecha are simply made up, with little to no referrence to original designer intentions. The Commanchero crew description is clearly intended to reflect the Mi-24 crew chief + small squad accomodations, but the design itself shows no evidence that this was intended (where do they enter/exit from?

Also, I doubt that this drawing was consciously intended to represent an alternate version. The heli design is not very well developed in the series, the line art for it is pretty limited, and I'd bet the guy drawing that still just gave the design a look and didn't pay too much attention to minor deviations. It's a minor image, and it is still recognizable as a commanchero

"In-universe," sure, it's a varient. In real life, just a drawing that didn't adhere very closely to the other official line art.

I agree with that. I even wondered how the crew gets in and out. Does the cockpit have doors like the Hind?

The first pic of the copter actually has some similarity to the Patlabor one.

[sketchley]

I'd bet the guy drawing that still just gave the design a look and didn't pay too much attention to minor deviations. It's a minor image, and it is still recognizable as a commanchero

I disagree. Though the image was done by Artland's Takayama Fumihoko, I highly doubt that he would've glanced at the official art and done his own thing - especially considering that he's the director of many of the episodes of SDFM!

The more I look at the image, the more I think it's a completely different attack helicopter that has only some features in common with the Commanchero. Like the AW101 Merlin and SA 330 Puma have features in common. It's only us viewers who are mistaking them for the Commanchero.

(Plus, as those helicopters are attacking civilians, and as SDFM has a history of vilifying the AUA, wouldn't those choppers be part of the AUA? And as the Commanchero is a UF chopper, wouldn't that preclude the assumption that the copters in questions are the Commanchero?)

[Zinjo]

I disagree. Though the image was done by Artland's Takayama Fumihoko, I highly doubt that he would've glanced at the official art and done his own thing - especially considering that he's the director of many of the episodes of SDFM!

The more I look at the image, the more I think it's a completely different attack helicopter that has only some features in common with the Commanchero. Like the AW101 Merlin and SA 330 Puma have features in common. It's only us viewers who are mistaking them for the Commanchero.

(Plus, as those helicopters are attacking civilians, and as SDFM has a history of vilifying the AUA, wouldn't those choppers be part of the AUA? And as the Commanchero is a UF chopper, wouldn't that preclude the assumption that the copters in questions are the Commanchero?)

Pretty compelling argument for an enemy chopper...

[coronadlux]

Looking at it more and more, it seems that the AUA copter is a single cockpit. I can't seem to find a second cockpit on the front or the one behind it.

Could it be shared technologies before the war? It looks too similar to the Comanchero to be from the "enemy" It could also be a captured "clone" like Iran is doing with that stealth UAV they captured...

[sketchley]

Cloned attack copter is a possibility. Though, it might just be divergent technological developments ending up at nearly the same place. After all, there's only so many ways to organize the fuselage of a helicopter...

[Roy Focker]

Don't you love Palladium? They had access to bunch of art work. Looking at it they had to have seen two cockpits with 2 people inside. Yet somehow we can cram nearly 10 people inside. They corrected that mistake in there latest edition of Robotech but then did a similar mistake by giving the Tomahawk a crew of two when every source just shows one. That was deliberate mistake by them.

[MechTech]

You know, not only are there differences with the engines and cockpit, but the first photo has a T tailed Fenestron on it. You know, to a lot of untrained observers a lot of todays gunships look the same, but are clearly not if you know even a slight bit of information. Perhaps this is styled after the Comanchero. As was said, an enemy copter? They even have art of Arab looking guys in gasmasks - clearly not SDF crew; so who knows. I also agree, it looks like the Patlabor helicopter in many apsects.

Another word of advice, DON'T use animation sequences for referance. They vary GREATLY oftentimes deforming or distorting the line art as it was intended. And then there's the whole color issues they often have too.

You DO bring up a great question though! - MT

[coronadlux]

I like the animated version of the first pic. Too bad more detail information is available.

Since it only has a single engine "cone" on each side, it might be a dedicated attack copter and slim like the apache or even the eurocopter.

Then maybe a troop carrying variant to go along with it would be logical.

You've got the Hueys and the cobra side by side during Vietnam. The blackhawks and apaches in Iraq... Maybe a Comnchero and this unknown one for the macross wars.

I'm not to fond of the vericopter's battloid mode look. But it can be possible for the macross saga.