Which Side Would You Support?

[pfunk]

See, this is where we hit a wall. As Gubaba said, the end is still unknown. As the war was a stalemate for quite a few years, there's plenty of time to be wishy-washy about which side will be the winner.

Of course, there's always the 3rd option: join neither side. Of course, you'd still get run over by one side or the other...

Well, to be fair, the "Anti"s usually lose,, unless your talking about rebel scum

[sketchley]

Well, to be fair, the "Anti"s usually lose,, unless your talking about rebel scum

That's true, in most SF. In real life, that's not always the case.

Disclaimer: the above statement does in no way imply that any of the events depicted in Macross are real.

[pfunk]

That's true, in most SF. In real life, that's not always the case.

Disclaimer: the above statement does in no way imply that any of the events depicted in Macross are real.

Well I think in real life the "good guy" always has some shenannagins going on behind the scenes that isn't so "good". But hey, no one is perfect I guess

[VF-15 Banshee]

Makes me wonder what would happen if the Zentradi had shown up five years early.

[Einherjar]

The U.N., though with my luck I'd probably die somewhere along the course of the U.N. War or Space War I.

[Jasonc]

For those that said they'd join the "Anti-UN" for reasons of wanting to fight "the man" and fighting the opression, where and what book or context does it state that the U.N. forces were overall opressive? We know Nora's story in Zero, but by action, what did the U.N. do to give you that opinion?

[eugimon]

Makes me wonder what would happen if the Zentradi had shown up five years early.

they would have laughed at our technology and moved on.

[sketchley]

For those that said they'd join the "Anti-UN" for reasons of wanting to fight "the man" and fighting the opression, where and what book or context does it state that the U.N. forces were overall opressive? We know Nora's story in Zero, but by action, what did the U.N. do to give you that opinion?

See here:

After telling ppl about it, AND having a discussion with TehPW about it, most people still aren't aware of the recently translated information on the subject.

MW pages w/ discussion: http://www.macrosswo...ndpost&p=963923

ToC of translations: http://www.macrossro.../Chronicles.htm

It's not the Unified Forces, but the Unified Government.

Edited April 27, 2012 by sketchley

[pfunk]

For those that said they'd join the "Anti-UN" for reasons of wanting to fight "the man" and fighting the opression, where and what book or context does it state that the U.N. forces were overall opressive? We know Nora's story in Zero, but by action, what did the U.N. do to give you that opinion?

Every society has the haves and the have nots.... I think its a case of rooting for the "underdog"

[Gubaba]

Every society has the haves and the have nots.... I think its a case of rooting for the "underdog"

Yeah...but when the underdog is assassinating prime ministers, nuking Russia, blowing up Grand Cannons, and killing unarmed Mars Base returnees, I think they've lost some of that "underdog luster."

Every society has the haves and the have nots.... I think its a case of rooting for the "underdog"

Yeah...but when the underdog is assassinating prime ministers, nuking Russia, blowing up Grand Cannons, and killing unarmed Mars Base returnees, I think they've lost some of that "underdog luster."

[anime52k8]

Going back to the OP: I'd pick the Anti Unification Alliance (who's this Anti UN that everyone's talking about?)

Why? Cuz they're the majority that are getting shafted by the haves, who have taken control of the investigation and development of Over Technology and are suppressing everyone else to their world outlook. Ultimately the differences between the two sides aren't that great. But the big plus for the AUA is that they're standing up for the rights of the majority that the haves are trying to silence! (AKA: sticking it to the man)

When you put it that way, I think I'd want to Join UN. Screw the have-nots, I want to hang out with the haves and eat medium-rare filet mignon off the backs of poor people.

[Gubaba]

When you put it that way, I think I'd want to Join UN. Screw the have-nots, I want to hang out with the haves and eat medium-rare filet mignon off the backs of poor people.

You'll also be able to hang out with Takashi Hayase and his lovely daughter.

[sketchley]

When you put it that way, I think I'd want to Join UN. Screw the have-nots, I want to hang out with the haves and eat medium-rare filet mignon off the backs of poor people.

You know... there's one teeny tiny flaw with your logic:

a) if the revised Macross history (M0, MF) is basically the same as that of SDFM et al, then basically the end of the Cold War never happened. The two sides in the Unification War are the Western (Democractic) Camp = UG and the Communist (USSR) Camp [not, not including countries like China and Somalia. If you have to ask why, then you haven't been paying attention during history class.] = AUA.

or

b) if the revised Macross history takes into consideration the end of the Cold War, then Russia is part of the Western (Democratic) Camp = UG, and China is the superpower behind the AUA camp.

So, as you've indicated you're in California, you are in the right place to join the UG. [above posted so that other members can play along].

HOWEVER, and this is where it gets complicated and heads start exploding:

are you the 1% or the 99%? (You know, We are the 99%.

If you're the 1%, you're already a member. If you're part of the 99... well, the AUA is looking mighty appealing to you as the 1% ain't accepting new members (unless you're a newly rich.)

(but wait, you say. The 99% is a post-Sub-Prime Mortgage collapse phenomenon. You're right. In this case it's serving as a real world example to illustrate the motivations for those that became the AUA. It also illustrates the divide between the rich... er, those with power that want to maintain their power by exploiting the technology of the ASS-1 for their benefit to, you guessed it, stay in power. Ultimately the AUA's motivation changed to a contest to decide who would be the rulers of the government that unifies all the nations of the Earth. Which, in other words, is indicative of what the Unification War really is: a revolution. The UG representing the old oligarchy fighting to retain their power in a new political economic paradigm, and the AUA initially opposing the change to the new paradigm and ultimately opting to fight to control the new paradigm. Head exploded yet?)

Edited April 27, 2012 by sketchley

[charger69]

I would join Anti just for SV-51 during the war. And then hide some decades in a distant outpost and join again secretly in YF-27 Development Team as a test pilot in Macross Galaxy Fleet

Let me introduce my two fictional rides during my career

SV-51

YF-27-5

Edited April 27, 2012 by charger69

[Gubaba]

I would join Anti just for SV-51 during the war. And then hide some decades in a distant outpost and join again secretly in YF-27 Development Team as a test pilot in Macross Galaxy Fleet

Let me introduce my two fictinal rides during my career

SV-51

YF-27-5

You'd kill a sweet, decent guy like Riber for THAT...?

You make me sick.

[Freiflug88]

For those that said they'd join the "Anti-UN" for reasons of wanting to fight "the man" and fighting the opression, where and what book or context does it state that the U.N. forces were overall opressive? We know Nora's story in Zero, but by action, what did the U.N. do to give you that opinion?

The U.N. essentially said to the nations of the world "all your base are belong to us, please" and then proceeded to invade any country that said "No, Thank you." How is that not evil and oppressive?

[VF-15 Banshee]

You know I'm starting to see why Kaifun had so many problems with the UNG and the UN Spacy. Still doesn't change the fact he's a douche though.

[Freiflug88]

You'd kill a sweet, decent guy like Riber for THAT...?

You make me sick.

Don't judge. After all who wouldn't kill Riber for THIS...

[Jasonc]

See here:

It's not the Unified Forces, but the Unified Government.

So, from that reading, it sounds like the Anti-UN just wanted to be in charge of themselves and/or wanted more power for themselves. So, in a nutshell, the ends didn't justify their means. Yeah, I would've joined the U.N.

Of course, the best course of action, would've been to simply set off the time Oscillation bomb, and then join the Glowmer, then pilot an Orguss.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Jasonc

[VF-15 Banshee]

Don't judge. After all who wouldn't kill Riber for THIS...

Your argument is hard to refute sir!

[Jasonc]

Your argument is hard to refute sir!

Yeah, you can't pass that up.

[VF-15 Banshee]

Hell, I'd arrange for Hikaru, as much as I like the guy, to have a little "accident" for her!!!

[SchizophrenicMC]

UNG. Historically, rebel scum only win when their oppressor gives up, or they blow up 2 successive superlaser stations and assassinate the leader of the oppressor. Historically, no one gives up on a global scale.

Call me selfish, but I want to live in the country that is undergoing technological development, not the one opposing that country. I don't care if I'm 1% or 99%. If I'm living in the lower half of the country with the awesome technological advantage, I'm living longer with cooler stuff and greater convenience than the upper half of the country that's stuck 100 years behind me, technologically.

Always play the odds. Odds are, the UNG is gonna win, so I'll stick with them. And what with this whole engineer thing, probably go work on the Macross Project, and save my ass when the Zentraedi come. Just saying.

[Reïvaj]

Playing the odds? Such a declaration of principles!

[Freiflug88]

The Anti-UN was the first human faction to invent variable transformation and cybernetics. Its the UN that is actually behind technologically.

[VF-15 Banshee]

Wasn't that just a retcon that didn't make sense given past history to justify the anti-UNG having model kits, er, I mean VFs in MZero?

[Freiflug88]

How so? In the SDF Macross flashbacks we have Roy fighting Anti-UN jet fighters in a jet fighter. Their was no definitive proof that I recall in SDF Macross that indicated one faction had VFs before the other.

[VF-15 Banshee]

Wouldn't those have been MiM-31 Karyovin Fighters?

[Seto Kaiba]

The Anti-UN was the first human faction to invent variable transformation and cybernetics. Its the UN that is actually behind technologically.

IIRC, isn't Nora's word all we have to go on as far as who invented the variable system? The Anti-UN definitely had the first combat-ready VF out there, and the SV-51's development was supposedly a year or two ahead of where the VF-0 was, but was variable fighter technology developed independently or was it something both sides got from OTEC? (sketchley, any thoughts or nuggets of fact on this?)

How so? In the SDF Macross flashbacks we have Roy fighting Anti-UN jet fighters in a jet fighter. Their was no definitive proof that I recall in SDF Macross that indicated one faction had VFs before the other.

Chronicle's Timeline Sheets 1 and 2 don't shed much light on which side had VFs first, saying only that both sides started developing OTM-based weapons in parallel with the restoration work on the Macross.

[sketchley]

(sketchley, any thoughts or nuggets of fact on this?)

Nope. Nothing relevant. Only thing coming to mind are thoughts on questions about the veracity of character dialogue (ie Capt. Global's dialogue in Global's Report about the SDF-1 being the booby trap vs SDF-1 is booby trapped) and later publications.

The MC pages on the SV-51 might provide some insight.

Edited May 1, 2012 by sketchley

[Omegablue]

Why would you support the Anti-UN? Only terrorists support the Anit-UN!

How are they linked with terrorists?

[Gubaba]

How are they linked with terrorists?

Because they perform terrorist acts.

[sketchley]

And so is Nelson Mandela.

[Omegablue]

Because they perform terrorist acts.

And what's your definition of a terrorist act?

And so is Nelson Mandela.

True.

[Gubaba]

And what's your definition of a terrorist act?

I would say the killing the returning Mars Base fleet counts, especially since they were unarmed. Assassinating the UN's Prime Ministr might qualify, too. Also destroying one of the Grand Cannons. Yes, it was a weapon, but its direction was turned pretty clearly OUTWARD. It couldn't be used to attack any target on earth.