Captain China

[xrentonx]

As a person who also has ancestry in a 3rd world communist country but has lived in the US since he was but a wee little tyke, I find this fascinating. Let the guy flog his comic.

Edited February 15, 2013 by xrentonx

[slaginpit]

As a person who also has ancestry in a 3rd world communist country but has lived in the US since he was but a wee little tike, I find this fascinating. Let the guy flog his comic.

"The whole drift of our law is toward the absolute prohibition of all

ideas that diverge in the slightest form from the accepted platitudes,

and behind that drift of law there is a far more potent force of growing

custom, and under that custom there is a natural philosophy which

erects conformity into the noblest of virtues and the free functioning

of personality into a capital crime against society."

[sketchley]

As an American, as yourself (...)

You assume to much.

I'm a Canadian, living in Japan, who majored in East and South East Asian history, and can tell when someone is white washing the facts about my major and spinning them to make their justification sound much more significant than it really is.

I don't like the patriotism implied in the comic "Captain America", but I don't get my panties in a knot about it, BECAUSE I know it's just a comic book about some guy in tight spandex fighting other guys in tight spandex and I invest my energies in more productive things.

The same goes for Captain China - you don't like it? Stop looking at it and move on to more important things in your life.

[xrentonx]

To be fair they've stopped writing the Cap as this ridiculous caricature of American jingoism. He hasn't been written that way in years...but you can sorta make that argument about Ultimates Cap I guess...

[sketchley]

To be fair they've stopped writing the Cap as this ridiculous caricature of American jingoism. He hasn't been written that way in years...but you can sorta make that argument about Ultimates Cap I guess...

Admittedly, my limited experiences with the Cap are from about 15 years ago, when I was working in a comic store in Canada - which left me with a bunch of negative feelings for Marvel; not so much for how they treated their creative staff or the derivative nature of their comics, but how they f**ked over the North American comic industry by attempting to distribute their comics on their own.

Their policy of 5 issue minimum purchases and no returns was truly horrible. It makes me appreciate the Japanese distribution system that much more - from appearances it's a 2 issue minimum, and one can return unsold stock (which does make things difficult if one is trying to collect all the issues of a publication long after the fact!).

Edited February 15, 2013 by sketchley

[Fly4victory]

I don't like the patriotism implied in the comic "Captain America", but I don't get my panties in a knot about it, BECAUSE I know it's just a comic book about some guy in tight spandex fighting other guys in tight spandex and I invest my energies in more productive things.

I agree with Sketchley's thoughts but from the other side of the coin.... I love the patriotism of Captain America but think it is important to defend an individuals' effort to advance their business and creative ideas.

This is a case of fix what you can fix and ignore what you can't.

Glad to see that #2 has come along.

[cwmodels]

Peter, this isn't a topic about the real world. It's about a comic book.

I (and I suspect a bunch of other people) are getting fed up with posts that not only have nothing to do with the topic, but continually say the exact same argument that was posted last April. We get that you have rage. This is not the venue to vent it.

Cwmodels, keep up the good work, and your posts on the challenges and success of getting this out there are always entertaining.

One question: this latest cover strongly reminds me of the Japanese sentai hero "Kamen Rider". Have you been continuing in a sentai-styled approach to villain design, or have you gone a different route, say something reminiscent of the legendary Chinese hero/villain designs, like iHong Kong's Legend of Emperors (天子傳奇)?

Captain China was designed to be an American-styled comic book from day one. And the reason is very simple, there is still a strong anti-Japanese sentiment in China, and using Manga-style comics to sell entertainment to them is the wrong way to go about. Most people do not know this fact, and that is China in the past used to broadcasted American cartoons as children programming, that to me means their culture as a whole is actually more acceptable to American entertainment than Japanese ones.

One of the things I generally hate about most Chinese entertainment is the outdated images we tend to present to the rest of the world. Kung Fu, sword fighting, people in flowing robes, jumping around on tree tops - these are things that most people cannot identify or relate-to anymore, but yet that is what we continue to push onto the rest of the world as "Chinese culture or tradition". I am not saying that I dislike Kung Fu films, but that is the only focus when westerners think about Chinese movies, TV shows or comics. We continue to perpetuate that stereotype over and over, and I want to break the cycle with Captain China. I want to present a Modern China that is not so different from the rest of the world nowadays. If China now has KFC, McDonald, Starbucks, youth in T-shirt & jeans talking on an iPhone, why not have an American-styled super hero running around as well? I believe that is something people can relate to more than some Kung Fu hero. And the fact that the entire world reacted to the launch of this no name, no budget, small press comic book tells me that I am probably on the right track.

As for the character on the cover of Volume 2- that is just my way of poking fun at all the traditional Chinese stereotypes (or what most people think a Chinese Super hero should look like)!

To be fair they've stopped writing the Cap as this ridiculous caricature of American jingoism. He hasn't been written that way in years...but you can sorta make that argument about Ultimates Cap I guess...

But Cap needs to be written that way, otherwise there is no point and you lose the essence of the character! I'd rather read about a flag-waving Captain America that kicks ass than one that cries and moans about how this country is no longer the same America he knows.

I agree with Sketchley's thoughts but from the other side of the coin.... I love the patriotism of Captain America but think it is important to defend an individuals' effort to advance their business and creative ideas.

This is a case of fix what you can fix and ignore what you can't.

Glad to see that #2 has come along.

Thanks!

Edited February 15, 2013 by cwmodels

[slaginpit]

Not to get into a heated debate..so I will summarize my thoughts as quickly as possible. Its weird to me for china to have anti japanese sentiment at all. Sure the Jap. were brutal but to be fair the chinese emperors were equally brutal to their people. Mao more so in the great leap forward years. And now in modern times having lived in china briefly and married to one. I find a huge river of apathy towards the plight of their own. At any time one can benefit from the misfortunes of others, some turn their heads for their own gain. Sure Captain America is jingoistic. They had to be in WW2 The Russians and Chinese died many times over and on a small hill the Americans were humiliated by a ill equipped chinese army. Hence the bravado. Having one wrong doesn't make both right. And Yes Cap USA and Cap China (with a red flag-knowing full well of the abuses we see today by the communist party) are both equally wrong. But descent is often trodden on and I really am sad to see that one cannot openly discuss his opinions on the topic because when you boil it down it is discussing the comic, about its content. I know this wasnt brief but this is the last comment I make in this thread

Edit: just one question Why not something else? What inspired you to a nationalistic character. Why not a character with no clear national identity?

Captain China was designed to be an American-styled comic book from day one. And the reason is very simple, there is still a strong anti-Japanese sentiment in China, and using Manga-style comics to sell entertainment to them is the wrong way to go about. Most people do not know this fact, and that is China in the past used to broadcasted American cartoons as children programming, that to me means their culture as a whole is actually more acceptable to American entertainment than Japanese ones.

Thanks!

Edited February 15, 2013 by slaginpit

[cwmodels]

Not to get into a heated debate..so I will summarize my thoughts as quickly as possible. Its weird to me for china to have anti japanese sentiment at all. Sure the Jap. were brutal but to be fair the chinese emperors were equally brutal to their people. Mao more so in the great leap forward years. And now in modern times having lived in china briefly and married to one. I find a huge river of apathy towards the plight of their own. At any time one can benefit from the misfortunes of others, some turn their heads for their own gain. Sure Captain America is jingoistic. They had to be in WW2 The Russians and Chinese died many times over and on a small hill the Americans were humiliated by a ill equipped chinese army. Hence the bravado. Having one wrong doesn't make both right. And Yes Cap USA and Cap China (with a red flag-knowing full well of the abuses we see today by the communist party) are both equally wrong. But descent is often trodden on and I really am sad to see that one cannot openly discuss his opinions on the topic because when you boil it down it is discussing the comic, about its content. I know this wasnt brief but this is the last comment I make in this thread

Edit: just one question Why not something else? What inspired you to a nationalistic character. Why not a character with no clear national identity?

Let me speak from my own personal experience, maybe this can help clear up a few things... My grandfather, who passed away at the age of 91 just a few weeks ago, was a fighter pilot during WW2 and fought the Japanese. His contribution and acts for the Chinese air force is even recorded in history books. He was stationed in Okinawa during the 1960s so he is not unfamiliar with the Japanese culture after WW2. But I grew up with the anti-Japanese sentiment in my family and that was something he passed on from that generation. It's impossible to ask people to remove that kind of understanding because they lived through it and it's going to trickle down no matter how much time has gone by. The anti-Japanese attitude is not only in China but also in many other Asia countries as well with Korean being the other strong opponent. Most westerners also don't know that Japan (unlike Germany) never paid for any of their war crimes (in monetary or attitude) and to this day do not recongize the horror they created in Asia during WW2. The Japanese killings of the Chinese is a piece of history that is only discussed more openly in America during the recent 15 years because of the rise of China (when I was in high school during the early 90's most Americans have never even heard of it before). But it's a chapter still wiped out from Japanese history book and that is a source which still stirs up anger for those countries that were inflicted. Compare to past Chinese rulers who also causes great numbers of death, at least those are recorded in history books and the fact that people know Mao killed millions means it's also recongized. That is the main difference.

Now to answer you other question- "Captain China" first came about only as a title. I thought it was catchy name and originally intended to produce it as a spoof comic book to satire American super hero genre. To flip the American ideals on its head and have a Super hero running around telling people that in order to fight for truth and justice you need to go about it the communist way!

BUT... after my trip to China in 2008, I realized that if I were to go about it in that fashion, I would be perpetuation a stereotype which no longer applies to the current cultural & social structure of China. That itself would make it an outdated and racist concept. I still wanted to keep the name "Captain China", so I began to think about how to use it and play into what can be done as a comic book with that title. The answer seems obvious - A hero that is a symbol who represents the modern China, his backstory parallel the recent history of China, and use the comic to give westerns a real insight into the what communism has transformed into over there.

[slaginpit]

Sorry if my memory is a little rusty? Its been a while since my Chinese History classes in the university days.

So the 45 million that Mao killed, the hundreds of thousands of people died building the Wall for Qin and hundreds of thousands of people that died him trying to unify the country, never mind the 20 or so other emperors. The nascent greed displayed in Modern china adopted by days of past. The skinning and hacking of commoners alive for the emperors amusement (ya it happened in Rome and Japan too) How many revolutions over and over again due to such behavior. How many did the Japanese kill. An estimated 20 million. Did China try to take Japan it did. How many Japanese died in two days? 300 thousand as they were already surrendering to the US. How many Chinese are imprisoned during the current establishment. How many have gained wealth within the party. I just think you need to first think about your own history and maybe your poor taste in judgement of choosing such a hero and then expecting EVERYONE to give you accolades. I guess to some here it doesnt matter to others it does. Also I find it funny that a majority of Chinese will purchase Japanese cars and German ones too as both nations were labeled the axis of evil. Just something to ruminate over...I personally find your covers offensive and jingoistic at time where Chinese nationalism is on the rise. And we all know where that leads to . But to the authors of this website what does it matter to offend someone while locking a thread down about upcoming toys from Dengeki magazine. I sometimes feel that I am the reincarnation of HL Mecken himself.

[sketchley]

Fun facts:

where does this 45 million number come from that some members are throwing around? Apparently it's the high estimate for the deaths during the Great Leap Forward. Low end estimates are at 18 million, and informed estimates are 18 to 32.5 million. Yes, bad things happened (it was the social and economic continuation of the revolution after all), but what percent of those deaths were caused by bad weather? Specifically drought and complete lack of rainfall?

Wouldn't deaths caused by famine caused by natural disasters happen to whoever was in political power? Whether they be capitalist, anarchist or whatever?

All of which is beside the point of this topic, as cwmodels has stated that the comic is a reflection of modern China. Mao died in 1976. Deng Xiaping sowed the seeds for modern China in the late '80's. There hasn't been any great proletarian revolutionary actions in China since the end of the Cultural Revolution. In 1976. Not sure how some people are making a connection between the revolutionary actions of the PRC leaders of more than 50 years ago with the "Communism with Chinese characteristics" of the modern China, which really only started 20 or so years ago...

... in a comic book about guys in tights punching each other...

Disclaimer: don't get me wrong. Modern China isn't very high on my favourite countries list. They've gone a little too far with economic development in spite of the environment - to the point that part of that truly hideous smog that was over Beijing a week or so ago has now been blown all the way to my home. >.<

Edited February 15, 2013 by sketchley

[EXO]

Too political.

I should give you guys suspension but I won't.

the next time any of you guys join or start a political discussion in any thread you'll be automatically banned.