Macross isnt what it used to be..

[Keith]

So you're saying Michel is more forced than Roy? You guys are just talkin' crazy talk now. Or do some of you have wives reading your posts? lol. "Really, depictions of sexualized teenage girls disgust me!"

[Cobalto]

The point is: We are getting old. It's normal don't like some new things when compared to the old-but-loved ones.

I don't like the "emo-style" on every-frakking-where in animes nowadays, but when it is in something new, I somewhat accept the fate, but if it's in something that already existed (and I liked the old way) well, it get on my nerves. If you know what I mean

[Macross_Fanboy]

I think in South Park Stan was diagnosed with being a cynical a-hole which is what we're becoming I suppose. LOL

[Old_Nash]

Well, I guess I could give an update on triangles.

But many people are prejudiced about yaoi and yuri couples.

I drawn a comic based on the colonial fleets.

The main triangle, has a man and two women. One woman being bisexual, and is in order to keep the other.

This is another one was a "attraction" by the other, but she like the pilot in question, which has a roll with his first woman of the triangle.

[Keith]

Well, I guess I could give an update on triangles.

But many people are prejudiced about yaoi and yuri couples.

I drawn a comic based on the colonial fleets.

The main triangle, has a man and two women. One woman being bisexual, and is in order to keep the other.

This is another one was a "attraction" by the other, but she like the pilot in question, which has a roll with his first woman of the triangle.

Please keep all fanfiction in the fanfiction section. Failure to do so results in me ripping it to shreds.

[VF5SS]

Roy didn't have the teeth sparkle effect like Juuza of the Clouds. Michel did so clearly he is much higher class of womanizing than Roy :3

[Old_Nash]

Please keep all fanfiction in the fanfiction section. Failure to do so results in me ripping it to shreds.

You say that because: not like fanfics or because it's very unorthodox?

[Keith]

You say that because: not like fanfics or because it's very unorthodox?

I say that because failure to keep fanfic's in the fanfic section is a violation of the MW Terms of Service.

[frothymug]

Seems like kind of a hostile response, Keith. Although I don't see how it's a violation of the TOS, there's more diplomatic ways of redirecting his comments to the appropriate place.

[Keith]

Seems like kind of a hostile response, Keith. Although I don't see how it's a violation of the TOS, there's more diplomatic ways of redirecting his comments to the appropriate place.

Actually, for me regarding fanfic stuff, that's pretty soft. See ancient alt.fan.macross posts for reference. Considering I'm not a mod, you can guess at how valid my statements about violations actually are(n't)

Edited April 8, 2012 by Keith

[Gubaba]

Actually, for me regarding fanfic stuff, that's pretty soft. See ancient alt.fan.macross posts for reference. Considering I'm not a mod, you can guess at how valid my statements about violations actually are(n't)

If anyone's interested, I've got a fanfic about Keith vs. Agent ONE. It'll keep you ON THE EDGE OF YOUR SEAT!!!!

PM me for more info.

[Old_Nash]

Actually, for me regarding fanfic stuff, that's pretty soft. See ancient alt.fan.macross posts for reference. Considering I'm not a mod, you can guess at how valid my statements about violations actually are(n't)

I just opened a little the range of the triangle straight. Putting a more actual than the old two women and one man or two men and one woman.

If this kind of relationship offends you , I apologize.

[frothymug]

Just do what you can to keep the haters happy, Nash. I have a fanfiction thread in the Fan Works forum where you're more than welcome to post. We always need new content to discuss.

[Keith]

If anyone's interested, I've got a fanfic about Keith vs. Agent ONE. It'll keep you ON THE EDGE OF YOUR SEAT!!!!

PM me for more info.

You were sworn to never reveal the details of that epic battle!

[danth]

Wow, thinking Macross Zero and Frontier weren't very good means we are nostalgic and old? Maybe they just suck.

Most sequels suck, guys. Not every one of them can be Empire Strikes Back. Everyone knows the Simpsons sucks now. Nobody can seriously argue that the Wars prequels were any good. Some things really aren't what they used to be.

[Keith]

Wow, thinking Macross Zero and Frontier weren't very good means we are nostalgic and old? Maybe they just suck.

Most sequels suck, guys. Not every one of them can be Empire Strikes Back. Everyone knows the Simpsons sucks now. Nobody can seriously argue that the Wars prequels were any good. Some things really aren't what they used to be.

Let's see, you don't like Zero, Frontier, The Simpsons, or the prequels including the incredibly awesome Episode III? Gonna have to go with the others here and say you're either old, or Mikey from the Life Cereal commercials.

[VF5SS]

Episode III was still pretty mediocre even if it was the best of the PT but I digress.

I think both Zero and Froniter are solid entries in the franchise and great series in general. For all their problems they are a cut above much of the competition in the robot anime genre and I think are a good indicator that Macross is still going strong.

[Dynaman]

Episode III was still pretty mediocre even if it was the best of the PT but I digress.

I have to ditto that, it would have gotten a better score from me if it were not for the "Noooo" at the end. I will be going to see it in 3D though, unlike the first prequal.

Frontier?, Zero?, Loved them both.

[Gubaba]

Episode III was still pretty mediocre even if it was the best of the PT but I digress.

I think both Zero and Froniter are solid entries in the franchise and great series in general. For all their problems they are a cut above much of the competition in the robot anime genre and I think are a good indicator that Macross is still going strong.

That said, Danth has a point that not liking them doesn't necessarily mean he's nostalgic and old. Maybe he simply doesn't like them.

Likewise, not liking them doesn't necessarily mean that they suck.

[Agent ONE]

Its not nostalgia.

SDF/DYRL are amazing, and the rest is just somewhere between ok, and terrible. If ANY other Macross came out before SDF/DYRL, then there would have been no franchise to discuss and there would be no Macross World.

Edit in:

I know my opinion is not jaded by anything as another nostalgia example could be Star Wars. I loved the original trilogy, but certainly could notice that when episode 1 came out that it was horrible... People made the same nostalgia comments, but when 2 and 3 came out I really liked them (esp 3) and now I like the Clone Wars TV show, so its not nostalgia at all. I can pick out good media and bad media without the bias of my feelings of childhood.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Agent ONE

[Zinjo]

I just opened a little the range of the triangle straight. Putting a more actual than the old two women and one man or two men and one woman.

If this kind of relationship offends you , I apologize.

I like it! A fresh take on what is becoming a "methodology", although it may work in the West I am not sure how the Japanese would receive it?

I can say I like all the Macross incarnations for various reasons. They all have their short comings with the exception of perhaps DYRL (the stars were aligning something special with that film), some were too short for the story they set up and others were too long due to the requirements of sponsors needing to flog their wares. "Plus" was a Western hit but was not as much in its domestic Japanese market. However the VF designs of that series have proven timeless...

As for the Wars, well I enjoyed the original trilogy, with their warts and all, not so much the "Lucased" updates. The Prequels were OK. Of all of them the 1st had the most epic lightsaber duel between Obi Wan and Maul which was never remotely reached in Ep 3 (big disapointment ). Ep 2 was the most consistent eventhough Lucas should have stayed well away of the politics of Anakin (a subject he demonstrated little knowledge of) and Ep 3 was an all around disapointing film. Full of copeous amounts of eye candy and devoid of any real drama or believable peril. When your Oscar nominated star can only defend the film with "Well it's not Shakespear", you have a problem.

As much as M7 irritated me, it was consistent and when you sift through all the gratuituous concert bits and ignore the non hero character of Basara, you could find a story to follow and characters to care about.

[Cobra__]

I wonder maybe if Frontier was created just to sell music.

Music and Valkyries.

Seriously just like Gundam exists nowadays mostly for selling toys (and the main reason Bandai bought Sunrise in th first place many years ago), the Macross franchise has become almost exclusively a venue to promote j-pop singers and sell toys.

People that refute this are simply in a state of denial.

The story in Frontier was a trainwreck. When even OVAs from 20 years ago are better than new offerings you know that the franchise is in deep crap.

The guys directing Macross should :

- write an interesting story

- have believable, adult and relatable characters

- keep the moe at minimal levels

- make the music a part of the story not THE STORY

- fire Kawamori

then maybe we can go back to having some Macross that kicks ass.

[Cobra__]

Every Macross series is created to sell merchandise. It's a robot show and the essence of the genre is hocking the merch. If anything, Space Battleship Yamato was one of the first to push the idea of using popular singers to do intro themes and then selling the singles. Victor was really keen on capitalizing on this.

One of my fellow writers on CDX is a huge vinyl collector and wrote a neat summary of the connection between anime and record companies

http://www.collectio...e#comment-24003

Well thank you mister obvious. This is true of every anime that has graced the tv screen since like forever.

The exceptions are very few, mostly tv series financed by the NHK and even then its not a given.

But everything else is designed to sell merchandise from the get go, its the nature of the beast.

Now accepting this doesn't mean you have to throw the script and characterizations out the window. And Frontier has basically done that.

So saying that Frontier is designed to sell merchandise is not an excuse for the poor storytelling and poor characterizations, and silly characters.

Anime producers need to go back to the fundamentals.

[VF5SS]

Honestly I don't really see a great shift from the fundamentals in most anime made these days.

[Jasonc]

Music and Valkyries.

Seriously just like Gundam exists nowadays mostly for selling toys (and the main reason Bandai bought Sunrise in th first place many years ago), the Macross franchise has become almost exclusively a venue to promote j-pop singers and sell toys.

People that refute this are simply in a state of denial.

The story in Frontier was a trainwreck. When even OVAs from 20 years ago are better than new offerings you know that the franchise is in deep crap.

The guys directing Macross should :

- write an interesting story

- have believable, adult and relatable characters

- keep the moe at minimal levels

- make the music a part of the story not THE STORY

- fire Kawamori

then maybe we can go back to having some Macross that kicks ass.

"Well thank you mister obvious. This is true of every anime that has graced the tv screen since like forever." My thoughts exactly. Macross is the exact same as it was in its original run.

As for the rest of your comments, your observations are severly flawed at best, and I severely question your judgment. While all that may be true in your own head, the facts tell a different story. Maybe reality isn't your cup of tea?

[reeoyuy]

Funny how adults can be as selfish as kids. Want the characters to be all adult so they're relatable to US? Well we're not the only one the show is trying to market. One look at Frontier and we can see it's more targeted to teens of 2007 with pretty teenage boys and moe girls acting like teens should be, flashy 3D CG, and catchy J-Pop. Are those bad things? Maybe not for old folks like us but we can't hog Macross for ourselves. Yeah, I agree that bad writing is universal in every era and I don't mean that "targeted for teens" means it's OK to dumb it down. But then again judging quality of writing is something very subjective and often clouded by our own perception. Like how we want the characters to act like us and our own standard. And if anyone insisted that their own standard, their own view is the best one then they're just getting old.

[Jasonc]

Funny how adults can be as selfish as kids. Want the characters to be all adult so they're relatable to US? Well we're not the only one the show is trying to market. One look at Frontier and we can see it's more targeted to teens of 2007 with pretty teenage boys and moe girls acting like teens should be, flashy 3D CG, and catchy J-Pop. Are those bad things? Maybe not for old folks like us but we can't hog Macross for ourselves. Yeah, I agree that bad writing is universal in every era and I don't mean that "targeted for teens" means it's OK to dumb it down. But then again judging quality of writing is something very subjective and often clouded by our own perception. Like how we want the characters to act like us and our own standard. And if anyone insisted that their own standard, their own view is the best one then they're just getting old.

I have to agree. I think the true value of a show, and its display as good writing, animation, and so on, eventually shows in general consensus, sales, and its ability to sell the product. Good writing, if you look at it from an introverted veiwpoint, is all about what it does for you. It's not necessarily wrong, but if it doesn't match up with the populace, there's a disonnect. The fact that Frontier has connected with old and (many) new fans, I'd say the writing was very successful.

[Keith]

"Well thank you mister obvious. This is true of every anime that has graced the tv screen since like forever." My thoughts exactly. Macross is the exact same as it was in its original run.

As for the rest of your comments, your observations are severly flawed at best, and I severely question your judgment. While all that may be true in your own head, the facts tell a different story. Maybe reality isn't your cup of tea?

Proving yet again that "some" robotech engraciated Macross fans just aren't "anime" fans. A problem much more rampant in the burning shards that once was the robotech fanbase, but we get them over on the Macross side too. I find his observations as inane as you do, "stop making it soo...anime-ey" indeed! When replying to his post's, just remember the high regard he places Southern Cross's story & mecha designs in, it puts everything into context.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Keith

[Reïvaj]

[...] When replying to his post's, just remember the high regard he places Southern Cross's story & mecha designs in, it puts everything into context.

Don't forget he also worships the RT novels

[Zor Primus]

Music and Valkyries.

Seriously just like Gundam exists nowadays mostly for selling toys (and the main reason Bandai bought Sunrise in th first place many years ago), the Macross franchise has become almost exclusively a venue to promote j-pop singers and sell toys.

People that refute this are simply in a state of denial.

The story in Frontier was a trainwreck. When even OVAs from 20 years ago are better than new offerings you know that the franchise is in deep crap.

The guys directing Macross should :

- write an interesting story

- have believable, adult and relatable characters

- keep the moe at minimal levels

- make the music a part of the story not THE STORY

- fire Kawamori

then maybe we can go back to having some Macross that kicks ass.

I'll bite...

- write an interesting story: Give us an example of an "interesting story" from your perspective...Sorry dude but if you're going to flame at least try and back it up with something more tangible other then crying like a baby about how a tale was a train wreck but not have a single example backing such a serious opinion.

- have believable, adult and relatable characters: If this is your problem there are plenty of programs on AMC or Lifetime for you to watch. Think about this, how old were you when the original series came out? Fast forward 25-30 years...guess what you got old, not the ideals or characters of the show. I will argue with anyone here about this...WE GOT OLD guys...open your minds and think back a few years. If you can't get in touch with your younger self and enjoy some juvenile fun then stop watching anime.

- keep the moe at minimal levels: Anyone that hates on Ranka-chan deserves to be tossed into a fiery volcano.

- make the music a part of the story not THE STORY: In Macross if there is NO MUSIC then there is NO STORY...simple as that buddy...

- fire Kawamori: Fire yourself and go watch the Sentinels.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Zor Primus

[Gubaba]

- fire Kawamori: Fire yourself and go watch the Sentinels.

Ouch...I can be harsh, but I wouldn't wish that on ANYONE...

But yeah, from the most easily-measured standards available (i.e. finance), Frontier has been a rousing success. The TV series spawned two movies, a whole slew of comics, two Macross (not just Frontier)-related magazines, raised the profiles of everyone involved, and brought an entirely new audience to Macross.

And speaking personally, although I'm not 17 anymore, I found the characters relatable and the plot pretty solid. There are certainly some things I wanted more of, or could've done without, but generally, I thought the series was good. And the second movie in particular blew me away.

[VF5SS]

Honestly, Ranka only rates a measly 0.2 Moe units on the moeton meter.

Maybe we could use some more perspective from cheerful girls who like Macross more than the stinky old men in this thread :3

although I'm not 17 anymore,

what are ya, like 80?

[Einherjar]

Music and Valkyries.

Seriously just like Gundam exists nowadays mostly for selling toys (and the main reason Bandai bought Sunrise in th first place many years ago), the Macross franchise has become almost exclusively a venue to promote j-pop singers and sell toys.

People that refute this are simply in a state of denial.

The story in Frontier was a trainwreck. When even OVAs from 20 years ago are better than new offerings you know that the franchise is in deep crap.

The guys directing Macross should :

- write an interesting story

- have believable, adult and relatable characters

- keep the moe at minimal levels

- make the music a part of the story not THE STORY

- fire Kawamori

then maybe we can go back to having some Macross that kicks ass.

I think you're desperately projecting another franchise entirely into the discussion.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Einherjar

[Cobra__]

I think you're desperately projecting another franchise entirely into the discussion.

No, I just happen to like Macross Zero and Macross Plus especially Macross Plus. This was Kawamori's best work bar none.

Is it a crime to wish some adult oriented Macross ?

[VF5SS]

Dude Shin is like 18.

And Isamu frames everything in reference to how cool he was in high school daze~