Macross isnt what it used to be..

[Omegablue]

There's believable fiction with possibility. And then there's non believable fiction with zero possibility, like a guy flying a plane with a guitar and firing speakers at his enemies.

One is stupid, like smoking dope stupid, and the other isn't. There's a diffirence.

[Gubaba]

There's believable fiction with possibility. And then there's non believable fiction with zero possibility, like a guy flying a plane with a guitar and firing speakers at his enemies.

One is stupid, like smoking dope stupid, and the other isn't. There's a diffirence.

I dunno man, I think anything that has giant transforming robots is automatically disqualified as "believable fiction with possibility."

Especially if it's got giant humanoid aliens (who in real life, would be unable to stand without their skeletons collapsing), daring mid-air Minmay rescues, and outer-space tuna fishing. Not to mention a host of other problems.

I love Macross dearly, but it's not hard SF by any stretch.

[VF5SS]

There's believable fiction with possibility. And then there's non believable fiction with zero possibility, like a guy flying a plane with a guitar and firing speakers at his enemies.

That's a rather arbitrary distinction. How many things in Macross could be on the side of non-believable?

God-like aliens creating space giants? Could be 50/50.

oh dear, Gubaba and I are on the same wavelength

newtypes!

edit: I would like to say that I find Basara not to be a messiah figure. He is in essence, Space John Lennon and does so much with a little help from his friends.

Also the guitar control stick is something other characters comment on as being strange :3

And what's wrong with speaker pods? There's so much detail going into how they work. They're way more plausible than the giant robot that carries them.

Edited April 2, 2012 by VF5SS

[Omegablue]

And all this time I thought the Macross love was about a F-14 transforming into Gerwalk mode during battle, while the chicks are always hot no matter where in the galaxy.

Guess I'll remain untouched by the Basara lust... and thankfully.

A unrealistic spastic that controls a plane with a guitar that shoots music at aliens, is, remains, forever will be, the stupidest moment in Anime history, regardless of whatever unproven scientific facts can be presented of other moments in whatever other animes.

[sketchley]

A unrealistic spastic that controls a plane with a guitar that shoots music at aliens, is, remains, forever will be, the stupidest moment in Anime history, regardless of whatever unproven scientific facts can be presented of other moments in whatever other animes.

I raise with an unrealistic naked spastic that controls a plane with a guitar that shoots music at aliens.

Just think about how much worse it, or any other incarnation of Macross could've been.

... and keep in mind that Kawamori himself has stated that MF could've had naked pilots, if it weren't for a preceding series where he got that idea out of his system!

Anyhow... how can you know a "good" Macross if you've never experienced a "bad" Macross? (rhetorical question)

[Vepariga]

I can understand your pain Omegablue,I only saw 6 episodes of Mac 7 It was just too stupid.

I think Mommarr said it best with the realisim aspect,Sure there is parts that would make no sense in older Macross episodes BUT they made the effort to make them appear plausable. With Macross Frontier,It was the 2nd Movie that really sealed this for me. Things like a naked grace jumping out of the rubble and instantly having a microphone? where does that come from? there was no effort at all it just springs out of thin air. Also Sheyrl being broken out of prision and then sings on stage infront of the damn prision? I can tell you now,If Misa was incharge of that Sheryl would be arrested within minutes.

Its just the lack of plausablity in recent Macross that irks me,and I know its just the anime culture bleeding over into the series. In MF Movie 2 only Berea had the interesting story that felt macross like,imo. and Alto? Why give him any flying rights if he destroys every craft he goes to battle with?

And I agree Nexx,the Oversexualization of current characters is too much. You never saw Minmay or Misa flaunting around half naked or doing suggestive moves every moment. You notice it in posters too,SDFM had everyone on the posters or Minmay and some other cast but they were dressed respectable. These days all you see is just Sheryl or Ranka or both in hardly anything. Makes you think what the series is even about.

I dont believe modern japanese anime traits should have a place into a Sci-Fi series that was so rich and real in its history only for it to be perverted in a modern society with Micheal Bay battle scenes.

[sketchley]

And I agree Nexx,the Oversexualization of current characters is too much. You never saw Minmay or Misa flaunting around half naked or doing suggestive moves every moment. You notice it in posters too,SDFM had everyone on the posters or Minmay and some other cast but they were dressed respectable. These days all you see is just Sheryl or Ranka or both in hardly anything. Makes you think what the series is even about.

2 words: sex sells...

... and didn't Gubaba say in an earlier post that we see Minmei completely naked? Don't recall that happening with any of the female characters of MF...

I dont believe modern japanese anime traits should have a place into a Sci-Fi series that was so rich and real in its history only for it to be perverted in a modern society with Micheal Bay battle scenes.

Moe Macross = More Macross, eh.

As a preceding poster stated: Macross is a product. The various incarnations of Macross reflect what is sellings on the market at the time that series is produced. (Exception being Macross Zero. Which didn't make that much of a splash, despite catering to the harder sci-fi aspects of the series. That or it's because it's the opera Macross... which doesn't have that much of an appeal these days.)

Edited April 2, 2012 by sketchley

[Pterobat]

It's a simple kinda thing. Some things just strike individual viewers as more absurd than others, though they're all equally implausible. I know I got on with everything else in Macross fine, but Mac 7 had me going "Ehhhhh?" Part of it's just about what might *look* more plausible on the surface, but it's not quite an intellectual thing.

The fanservice angle is a good example. Yes, Minmay was naked, but for some of us, there's just an overall feeling that things have gotten a little more blatant, but without actually showing more skin. Again, it's not intellectual.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Pterobat

[Vepariga]

2 words: sex sells...

... and didn't Gubaba say in an earlier post that we see Minmei completely naked? Don't recall that happening with any of the female characters of MF...

That scene with Minmay was done tastefully though and that was key,it wasnt flamboyant or attention seeking as our current divas.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Vepariga

[Macross_Fanboy]

I love the original and Plus, 7 and MF and 0 were fine too, but 0 and MF were good in that they were tied together.

[Keith]

I'm sorry, I thought I was on a forum with other nearly middle aged men who could handle T&A...

[VF5SS]

The fanservice angle is a good example. Yes, Minmay was naked, but for some of us, there's just an overall feeling that things have gotten a little more blatant, but without actually showing more skin. Again, it's not intellectual.

I feel like people are being rather selective about how blatant things are. Sheryl flaunts herself because she is a egotistical diva, but that's part of her character. We are introduced to her twin fold drives rather early one, but is that any different than Minmay whose first big scene involves Roy checking out her 80's three level shaded posterior :3

Let's not even go into how many times the guys who put together various books like Perfect Memory and the TIAS series that felt proud to have screen caps of every sexy moment in Macross. The Miss Macross episode is the best because it was more or less their way of doing a beach episode (which almost every giant robot show had done prior) without a beach.

And Gubaba was telling me how much the fans loved every snippet of "kya kya" action with even the pinpoint barrier girls getting some love in the Miss Macross fan polls :3

Also Riber is really popular for some reason.

Certainly the marketing has changed but nerds...nerds never change...

We just have a better idea about what kind of perverts were making these shows and which ones watching them.

We're probably heading towards another Macross 7 hate thread, but I will say that Kawamori himself has some interesting comments about the show in the interview section of Macross Design Works.

[Bri]

I feel like people are being rather selective about how blatant things are. Sheryl flaunts herself because she is a egotistical diva, but that's part of her character. We are introduced to her twin fold drives rather early one, but is that any different than Minmay whose first big scene involves Roy checking out her 80's three level shaded posterior :3

Let's not even go into how many times the guys who put together various books like Perfect Memory and the TIAS series that felt proud to have screen caps of every sexy moment in Macross. The Miss Macross episode is the best because it was more or less their way of doing a beach episode (which almost every giant robot show had done prior) without a beach.

I agree for the most part but Frontier especially suffers from hamfisted attempts at inserting fanservice that just fail to be either funny or erotic. Even pantsu humor has standards.

We're probably heading towards another Macross 7 hate thread, but I will say that Kawamori himself has some interesting comments about the show in the interview section of Macross Design Works.

Probably. Fans who feel that more fictional "realism" and gritty storytelling equals better Macross will never warm to the later sequels. That discussion seems to dominate any attempt at discussing the relative strengths and weakness of individual Macross properties.

[pfunk]

this thread sounds eerily familiar to the "Should Macross get a Remake" thread. Honesty I like the entire franchise and someday I will get past my fear of having amplifiers in boosters instead of rockets and actually watch M7,,,, not there yet.

[Pterobat]

Nobody is denying that SDFM had sexual aspects to it: I'm just saying I can see why someone would find the sexual aspects of later series to be more blatant/grating even if the amount might be the same.

[Dynaman]

Nobody is denying that SDFM had sexual aspects to it: I'm just saying I can see why someone would find the sexual aspects of later series to be more blatant/grating even if the amount might be the same.

I think it is undeniable that later series are more blatant, but it just goes with the times. Society in general is more blatantly sexual, now get off my D*MN lawn...

[Shaorin]

Nobody is denying that SDFM had sexual aspects to it: I'm just saying I can see why someone would find the sexual aspects of later series to be more blatant/grating even if the amount might be the same.

key words; ZERO TASTEFULNESS...

[sketchley]

key words; ZERO TASTEFULNESS...

This brings up an interesting point:

is MF the way it is because it's the current fad, common throughout the industry, or is it a gimmick to make it stand out in an over-saturated marketplace? A situation that SDFM or even M7 didn't have to deal with (by this, I'm referring to the proliferation of specialty channels and online content).

... or is it because MF is a late-night anime, where such things are prevalent, but not necessarily representative of the industry as a whole?

... or all of the above?

[Bri]

This brings up an interesting point:

is MF the way it is because it's the current fad, common throughout the industry, or is it a gimmick to make it stand out in an over-saturated marketplace? A situation that SDFM or even M7 didn't have to deal with (by this, I'm referring to the proliferation of specialty channels and online content).

... or is it because MF is a late-night anime, where such things are prevalent, but not necessarily representative of the industry as a whole?

... or all of the above?

MF simply includes the high school centric romance drama because it's needed for commercial viability. This list http://www.mania.com/aodvb/showthread.php?p=1972211#post1972211 contains the best selling TV anime since 2000. Most of it is late night and pretty much all of it centers on characters in high school plus magic/sci-fi/supernatural/fantasy/mecha. Most of it contains fan service to some degree.

Anime aimed at other markets like cinema or specialist TV-channels or blocks can be quite different. The noitamina block until recently had quite artistic shows that were aimed at a wider audience.

As Shaorin brings up, MF isn't so much sexualized as it is tacky at times. This is not necessarily an element of late night anime and is a deliberate choice of the creative staff as Macross is an original production. Staff wise Yasuhito Kikuchi and Hiroyuki Hoshino are credited as the director and the writer responsible for the story composition and screenplay. Their resumes are kind of revealing: Aquarion, Gundam Seed, Codegeass, Seikon no Quasar, Dance in the Vampire Bund, Infinite Stratos etc. Succesfull works but not really subtle.

Satelight has delivered far more restrained works like the recent Moretsu Pirates or Croisée in a Foreign Labyrinth. We just had the good/bad fortune to get a "Micheal Bay"-ish team assigned to Frontier.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Bri

[Jasonc]

I'll chime in on the title of the thread. Macross is what used to be. It's a show about the same fighters that transform into robots, with singing girls, a love triangle, aliens, drama, action, and an overall vehicle designed to sell merchandise on a highly successful level. It seems like what is left to argue about is what little differences there are in between them that don't make it an exact copy of SDF Macross and DYRL. In that case, of course they're not the same. If you want the exact same, hit replay on your DVD.

[Einherjar]

At least it's good music that has a purpose to the plot and hightened the atmosphere of the show. People have been or currently are being treated much worse elsewhere.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Einherjar

[s001]

I would replace "too Japanese" with simply "niche". Anime characters are increasingly designed to appeal to what the fans like, not as to what would appeal to a wider audience. Gravitas changes over time. Macross series have used fears (real or part of popular fiction) that were in vogue at the time of production. SDFM reflected on the end of the world at a time when the cold war could turn hot at any moment. Plus is heavily influenced by cyberpunk, Zero uses the fears of terrorism at the turn of the century, arguably Macross 7's protodevlin tied in with the renaissance of the supernatural in the 90s and Frontier runs with the corporate abuse. The current generation of viewers will have a different perspective on what is frightening from those who watched at the time when SDFM was new. hmm, only Basara was a chosen one, or more to the point, a messiah. Alto had no more impact on Frontier's storyline than Hikaru had on SDFM's.

Wow I've never seen it like that. That's brilliant!!!

[Reïvaj]

Yeah, it's a very intersting point of view.

[Graham]

I'm sorry, I thought I was on a forum with other nearly middle aged men who could handle T&A...

I'm happy to handle any T&A that comes my way. Heck, at my age, you take what you can get!

And Macross 7 rocks.........BOMBA!

Graham

[Loop]

I suppose I should have titled this topic 'do you thing the music aspect overshadows what emtional response you should feel towards the characters'

Dont get me wrong,I enjoy Frontier and Love the Mecha showcased,its just that attachment and feeling I used to have with the previous series that I dont feel in Frontier. Like,Anyone could die in Frontier and I wouldnt feel anything for them because the songs and Alto in a dress (I dont care how many times they do it I'd never get used to it,should have just had a female lead) Overshadow.

Thats nice,but whats it doing in Macross. no need for it.

Because Shoji Kawamori was the Main Mechanical Designer for Eureka Seven.

There have been plenty of easter eggs in the macross series and movies over the years, like on DYRL you can find a Budweiser can painted on a micro missile.

The scene where studio Nue is destroyed by a VF, I found some other micro missile ones also, just can't remember them all. This I think also covers Isamu's 2 second appearance.

[Zor Primus]

I'll chime in on the title of the thread. Macross is what used to be. It's a show about the same fighters that transform into robots, with singing girls, a love triangle, aliens, drama, action, and an overall vehicle designed to sell merchandise on a highly successful level. It seems like what is left to argue about is what little differences there are in between them that don't make it an exact copy of SDF Macross and DYRL. In that case, of course they're not the same. If you want the exact same, hit replay on your DVD.

QFT...just had my 4th sitting of MF...I'll add that Macross not only is what it used to be like Jason said but better and able to stay relevant regardless if you watch MF or SDF:M. I can sit through and see them over and over again and find very little to gripe about if anything. Sexual innuendos? Really? Talk about nit picking. Nevermind that the show focuses also on war, genocide, with displays of betrayal and murder...we can squash a pilot into a pool of blood or blast the Earth and show a child and soldier get blasted from space...but show some fan service or kinky imagery and it causes a debate about taste

Edited April 5, 2012 by Zor Primus

[Reïvaj]

[...] Nevermind that the show focuses also on war, genocide, with displays of betrayal and murder...we can squash a pilot into a pool of blood or blast the Earth and show a child and soldier get blasted from space...but show some fan service or kinky imagery and it causes a debate about taste

[Dynaman]

Sexual innuendos? Really? Talk about nit picking. Nevermind that the show focuses also on war, genocide, with displays of betrayal and murder...we can squash a pilot into a pool of blood or blast the Earth and show a child and soldier get blasted from space...but show some fan service or kinky imagery and it causes a debate about taste

Context, it shows war as something to be avoided if possible, while the innuendo is shown as being acceptable - that is the problem with it.

[Zor Primus]

Context, it shows war as something to be avoided if possible, while the innuendo is shown as being acceptable - that is the problem with it.

Something tells me this can go around and around for years without a consensus...so I'll bow out before I start chasing after my own tail...

[SchizophrenicMC]

What's wrong with innuendo? Tits > All

[Dynaman]

What's wrong with innuendo? Tits > All

Among underage characters, everything. In general I'm also an old fuddy duddy, we have become far too sexualized.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Dynaman

[Bri]

Talk about nit picking. Nevermind that the show focuses also on war, genocide, with displays of betrayal and murder...we can squash a pilot into a pool of blood or blast the Earth and show a child and soldier get blasted from space...but show some fan service or kinky imagery and it causes a debate about taste

It's about portrayal. For example I don't have any problem with either violent or sexual content as such. However, that doesn't mean I enjoy splatter gore or frat-boy level jokes on sex. As Frontier is aimed at an older audience I would not have mind an explicit display of Alto and Sheryl sleeping together at all (not to mention it would have saved us from shippers going nuts about whether they did it or not) but spare me the Ranka breast jokes...

[Einherjar]

Innuendo isn't that new here.

[Jasonc]

Among underage characters, everything. In general I'm also an old fuddy duddy, we have become far too sexualized.

It's not like it wasn't present in the original shows, so the argument that it's soooo different seems more a rant of nostalgia.

Innuendo isn't that new here.

Yep, and there's A LOT more where those came from. There's also the direct subjects, like a showering Minmay, and the womanizing Roy. No different than today. The only thing that really changes, is us.

[Vepariga]

Roy's character was natural in his actions,thats who he is. The characters today that try to do the same dont have that natural feel,its too forced. feels abit shoe-horned in.