Yamato 1/60 VF-17 Nightmare Diamond Force (Thread no.2)

[derex3592]

I feel your pain!!! This is BY FAR the most annoying part of this toy. I messed with my 17D for damn near an hour trying to get those hip bars rotated and NOT scratch up or dent or break anything. I've done it 3 times now and it hasn't gotten any easier..the only trick I've learned is kinda use the weight of the leg itself to help swing the thing around...(I'm sure you know this, but make SURE you're going the right direction with it or you will gouge the hell out of the plastic) It's hard to explain how to do it..but I can see why people say the 17 was kind of a step back in design after the awesomeness of the 19's. Good Luck. Maybe someone else has a helpful hint...

Edited February 22, 2013 by derex3592

[Rabidweezil]

I don't seem to hurting the plastic so far....I've been pulling them forward. Is that right?

[derex3592]

Yes. That is right. Apparently going backwards is uber bad. LOL. All I can say is the first time I kept messing with it and then it just kind of "happened"...LOL..sounds like a date I had once..

ohhh,,,,and if you're not bleeding from your fingertips yet from all those damn pointy bits....you haven't done it right...(not kidding..as careful as I was, one of them got me good enough to draw first blood).

Edited February 22, 2013 by derex3592

[Rabidweezil]

Sounds like a successful date then

And I was just bitching to a co-worker how I have all these little cuts all over my hand from trying to transform the thing.

[derex3592]

LOL!

[Rabidweezil]

To anyone that has both a 17S and a 17D. Are the hips easier to put into place on the 17S? Or is it just as challenging on both? I have on of each. I was going to leave the S in fighter and display the D in Battroid, but if the S is easier to transform I can easily switch that up.

[Frogze]

It's basically the same toy with a different head and paint, so there's no difference in the transformation process. You should watch some transformation videos on Youtube, they're helpful when unfamiliar with a valkyrie toy.

I just received a VF-17D and it's a great toy , the hips and ankles were a little loose on my S but it seems finely tuned on this one, let's hope it stays this way

I do like the head design of the D but overall I still prefer the S, maybe because the scheme is more striking with the yellow stripes and the white head parts

[Chronocidal]

So, a word of advice about these.. If your shoulder covers tend to pop off, don't try and fix it.

I actually did more harm than good to the shoulder trying to get it to attach correctly. It's back on, but now that forward triangle piece with the tiny trap door is very obviously modified. I wound up sealing the joint with super glue, and filing it smooth. I would try and just smooth over the entire piece, rescribe the separation lines, and paint over it, but the plastic isn't actually black.

The annoying part though.. in the process of trying to fix that shoulder, I managed to ding up the paint on both chest cannons. Fortunately for me, I happened to have a bottle of acrylic paint that is a near perfect match, but I'd like to go strip it off and use enamels for extra durability, so I might see if I can find a match.

Tamiya "Light Gray" was a little too dark, but I have a small bottle of Testors/Pactra "Light Gray" acrylic that matches. I just need to check if that color is one of the standard Model Master colors I have.

Edit: darn this stupid glitch.. probably a browser problem, but the quick reply never saves paragraph breaks.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Chronocidal

[Rabidweezil]

Yes. That is right. Apparently going backwards is uber bad. LOL. All I can say is the first time I kept messing with it and then it just kind of "happened"...LOL..sounds like a date I had once..

ohhh,,,,and if you're not bleeding from your fingertips yet from all those damn pointy bits....you haven't done it right...(not kidding..as careful as I was, one of them got me good enough to draw first blood).

I kind of followed your advice and let the weight of the legs pull them forward and it like you said, it just sort of happened!

Can't say it was as satisfying as a successful date though

I do appreciate your help. Thanks!

[derex3592]

Glad it worked out! I love this thing in battroid mode!

[Mommar]

I feel your pain!!! This is BY FAR the most annoying part of this toy. I messed with my 17D for damn near an hour trying to get those hip bars rotated and NOT scratch up or dent or break anything. I've done it 3 times now and it hasn't gotten any easier..the only trick I've learned is kinda use the weight of the leg itself to help swing the thing around...(I'm sure you know this, but make SURE you're going the right direction with it or you will gouge the hell out of the plastic) It's hard to explain how to do it..but I can see why people say the 17 was kind of a step back in design after the awesomeness of the 19's. Good Luck. Maybe someone else has a helpful hint...

I just noticed this discussion. I am not sure why people are having problems scratching anything up or gouging plastic? The swing bar swing down and then forward. Rotate the hips back the absolutely farthest they can go then let the bar swing forward. When transforming back, rotate the hips as far forward as they go, let the bar swing back half way, rotate the hips back as far as they will go again, then complete rotating the bar back. It's relatively simple. you just have to pay attention to the mechanism and look ahead a little bit.

[Chronocidal]

They aren't gouging the plastic... the plastic is gouging them.

Actually though, if you don't move things in the right order, it's really easy to smash the legs into some of the sharper corners on the torso, and ding them up.

[Graham]

Mayor Milia is getting impatient........LOL!

Graham

[whitestar]

Came across this on the 'net. Expertly applied decals, but half of me thinks all the decals detract from its stealthiness. In any case, they're absolutely breathe-taking

[Lightning]

Just got my -17D today. Stuck on the back where the wing supports are supposed to slide towards the middle. It's taking more force than I want to use to get them to slide together......am I missing a step or a piece or something?

EDIT: No, I haven't searched for it in this or the other thread yet. :/

Edited February 26, 2013 by Lightning

[Negotiator]

Got mine today too. Both sides are stuck? Try a little bit of bending/twisting/wiggling. That's what I do for stubborn parts.

[Lightning]

Got mine today too. Both sides are stuck? Try a little bit of bending/twisting/wiggling. That's what I do for stubborn parts.

yep, both sides. that's what I thought too, but it felt like any more force would break it.

[Mommar]

Came across this on the 'net. Expertly applied decals, but half of me thinks all the decals detract from its stealthiness. In any case, they're absolutely breathe-taking

I really don't like the stickering on those. Way too busy.

[jenius]

I think they look great.

[aceoftherebellion]

Isn't that pretty much why Yamato decided not to tampoprint much on these in the first place, because the design quickly looks cluttered when you start to add markings?

I hate to say it, but I think I kinda agree, the design looks really busy as soon as you add markings to it. I'm kinda glad they made it optional at this point.

[Mommar]

There are actual F-117A's that are marked up just as much as these 17's are. I just think it doesn't look right. I left mine minimal low-vis and I think it's classier.

[Reïvaj]

There are actual F-117A's that are marked up just as much as these 17's are. I just think it doesn't look right. I left mine minimal low-vis and I think it's classier.

I like what you did.

[Chronocidal]

Honestly, I like how semi-real they look... but I don't get why they mixed high and low-vis kite markings. If they'd used the low-vis ones on the chest, it would look much better, I think.

[Scyla]

I also think they look way to busy for my tastes and I can understand why Yamato did not tampoprint all the small stuff that is on the sticker sheet.

But at least the markings the Valkyrie had on the anime would be nice (i.e. the kites and the triangle marking).

[Graham]

Agree, the kite symbols and triangles should have been tampoed on, as they are in the anime and also on every piece of line art.

Graham

[Mommar]

I know some people want anime accuracy and on top of that many don't like or aren't willing/afraid to put stickers on (I used to be that way) but at this point I am happy they decided not to put the tampo on this release. I think the designer was right that the Kites just don't work on this one.

[Froy]

Came across this on the 'net. Expertly applied decals, but half of me thinks all the decals detract from its stealthiness. In any case, they're absolutely breathe-taking

Those are like a big flying bullseye in the space.

Edited February 27, 2013 by Froy

[Scyla]

Correct me if I'm wrong but if I'm not mistaken the term Stealth comes from a planes ability not to be detected by radar because it's radar signal is so small.

This ability comes mostly from the shape of the plane and the material its fuselage is coated with.

In addition most stealth planes are also not traceable by their heat signature because the mask their heat sources (i.e. engines).

None of this is affected by the color and/or markings of a plane. So it is possible to have a stealthy but shiny red VF-17 *cough*

I didn't want to offend you Froy. It was just something that crossed my mind in this very second.

If I'm wrong feel free to correct me.

[whitestar]

To be fair, the bright yellow or light blue stripes don't make it any less of a flying target, although I couldn't imagine the VF-17's without that signature detail.

[plutoniumhunter]

Those are like a big flying bullseye in the space.

My initial thoughts actually, "Aren't those stripes a little bit too flashy for "stealth" valks?"

[Lightning]

I think one would see the glow from the engines before stripes came into view.

[Chronocidal]

Yeah, you have to rememeber.. space is usually dark. Without a local light source to reflect off those markings, they wouldn't show up anyway. The big glowy engines, on the other hand, would be a dead giveaway.

Really, by the time the VF-17 went into service, stealth had nothing to do with the shape of the aircraft, or even the color. I mean think about it. Nora's SV-51 was hot pink with gold stripes, and when Shin first encountered her in an F-14, they claimed it was a stealth fighter, because they didn't pick up anything. The only reason he got anywhere near hitting her was because she got cocky, and decided to get within visual range, and he was able to draw a bead on her for a cannon shot.

When you've got weapons that work beyond visual range, you don't have to fool the human eye anymore, just the sensors.

I actually never understood why anyone would paint a spacecraft black. Sure, it's great for hiding. But if you fly with a group? That's just asking for collisions. And with twinkling stars everywhere, blinking anti-collision lights might not help much. I always figured the bright wing stripes were for friendly ID more than anything else.

[Lightning]

That and IFF beacons

[plutoniumhunter]

Lol very interesting! I stand corrected.

[mechaninac]

Yeah, you have to rememeber.. space is usually dark. Without a local light source to reflect off those markings, they wouldn't show up anyway. The big glowy engines, on the other hand, would be a dead giveaway.

Really, by the time the VF-17 went into service, stealth had nothing to do with the shape of the aircraft, or even the color. I mean think about it. Nora's SV-51 was hot pink with gold stripes, and when Shin first encountered her in an F-14, they claimed it was a stealth fighter, because they didn't pick up anything. The only reason he got anywhere near hitting her was because she got cocky, and decided to get within visual range, and he was able to draw a bead on her for a cannon shot.

When you've got weapons that work beyond visual range, you don't have to fool the human eye anymore, just the sensors.

I actually never understood why anyone would paint a spacecraft black. Sure, it's great for hiding. But if you fly with a group? That's just asking for collisions. And with twinkling stars everywhere, blinking anti-collision lights might not help much. I always figured the bright wing stripes were for friendly ID more than anything else.

I think most/all VFs have active stealth (EM jamming to fool enemy sensors), as opposed to passive stealth (mask, absorb, redirect detection systems). If I'm not mistaken, the VF-0, SV-51, YF-19, YF-21 are all mentioned to be stealthy to varying degrees, like your example of Nora sneaking up, and not registering on radar even when clearly visible, on the F-14s. The VF-17 and VF-171 look like they employ both systems given that they're shaped derivatively from the passively stealth F-117, much more so for the 17.

Long range weapons definately gives the combatant with the best "first look, first kill" ability a distinct advantage, but if both sides posess comparable over-tech active stealth technology of equal capabilities than targetting and engaging a beyond visual range target becomes impossible; you'd need within visual range in order to shoot anything other than a nuke and hope to hit anything. Maybe that's one of the reasons for all the missile swarms.

When it comes to visual dedection in space, a low albedo paint job would certainly be of help in keeping you undetected from head on, or if you're on momentum alone with engines off your chances of maintaining your stealth are also significantly affected by the finish on the VF. So an all black VF-17 running silent would have the best chance of all VFs of sneaking up on an enemy. And, err, stars' lights only twinkle (blink) within the heat distortions/eddies of an atmosphere... in space, no atmosphere means no blinking, so anti-collision blinkers would be a dead givaway in space.