Yamato 1/60 VF-17 Nightmare Diamond Force (Thread no.2)

[Mommar]

Who here was absolutely "Blown away" by the 17? It's biggest fan, Graham, said it was a step back in engineering. I think everyone said they had some issues with the caveat that it's a hell of a lot of fun to pose in Battroid. And that's the key term, it's a hell of a lot of fun to pose. That's the main goal with a toy and they got it. It's not 100% accurate to the lineart but the lineart can't even agree with itself so that was never a concern for me.

[MacrossJunkie]

I wasn't blown away in a sense that I would say "Holy S#17! This is amazing!"

I was pretty impressed with the toy though and surprised that I ended up liking it more than the 171. I think I also had more fun customizing the look of my 17 more. Perhaps I will like the 171 better when the super packs for it arrive, but that still doesn't change my opinion of the base toy. I especially liked the size and weight of the 17 and the use of metal in the major joints instead of plastic.

I agree with how the battroid mode looks strange from the side with the profile of the top half looking a bit skinny and the back part hanging so far off.

[Mommar]

Yamato would have done well to copy Bandai's (I know they couldn't see it at the time) idea of having that collapsible bit back behind the shoulders to allow the backpack to sit closer. They also needed a better connection for the back half of the thing in Battroid. It already sags a tad, I'm shuddering to think what it will be like with the super packs attached.

[Chronocidal]

Well you know... there's a good reason the VF-17 isn't as impressive as the VF-19... it's nowhere near as complex to make.

Sure, it's complicated, but the VF-17 isn't one of those valks where you go, "this will never work, there's way too much anime magic involved here." Obviously, yes, there is a lot of shapeshifting involved, but the VF-19 is well known for being nigh impossible without major parts swapping.

I don't think anyone's ever considered the VF-17 that difficult to make a transforming toy of. Heck, the original 1/65 Bandai figures weren't even that bad, and people still love them. They were bricks, and not really posable, but Yamato made theirs extremely posable, and decently sleek without too much trouble.

It's just that compared to the VF-19, the VF-17 doesn't look nearly as hard to do. The only previous attempt at the VF-17 was Bandai's, and they surpassed that without really having to try, while improving on the previous YF-19 seems a much more impressive feat.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Y'know, sometimes I think people are responding so strongly to this valk because most of us didn't initially much like the design. The suprise, I suspect, colors the reaction. That and some people are still expecting something along the lines of the v2 YF-19 from Yamato, not realizing how far they've come.

I find it interesting that Graham, probably the biggest VF-17 lover here, commented that he felt it was a step backwards in engineering from Yamato's 19 designs.

Although, if its any defense, Yamato is on their third attempt at 19 design and also has a lot of other toys, models, and kits to look at as reference. Yamato's never done a 17, and as far as I know the only examples they have are the Bandai and Experten kits.

Heh, I'm waiting for them to get to version 2.

Of course, it's still a cool bad-a$$ black valk. Just after the Macross and the 19's we need more to be impressed- in my book that's a good thing!

Compared to the 1/60 VF-19's by Yamato, the VF-17 is definitely a step backward, however, something I think happened too, is that there were different teams working on the Excaliburs and the Nightmares. I don't think the same designer for the Fire Valk designed the Nightmare. I could be wrong but they are very different in feel.

After a frustrating experience with my VF-22S the VF-17 came off as a huge jump in quality. To me the best Yamato Valks are the 1/48 VF-1, 1/60 VF-11, then VF-17 and VF-19.

The VF-17 could use tigher elbow joints, secondary thigh swivels directly above the knee, a more solid way to secure the back and make it less gappy, and definitely more printed markings. Overall it's a brute and I LOVE big Valk toys. If Battle 7 was a Club, Diamond Force were its bouncers. It complements the VF-19's nicely in that this one looks like the "special ops dirty business get it done" type, whereas the Excaliburs definitely contrast in aesthetics with a much more heroic look.

[Mommar]

Well you know... there's a good reason the VF-17 isn't as impressive as the VF-19... it's nowhere near as complex to make.

Sure, it's complicated, but the VF-17 isn't one of those valks where you go, "this will never work, there's way too much anime magic involved here." Obviously, yes, there is a lot of shapeshifting involved, but the VF-19 is well known for being nigh impossible without major parts swapping.

I don't think anyone's ever considered the VF-17 that difficult to make a transforming toy of. Heck, the original 1/65 Bandai figures weren't even that bad, and people still love them. They were bricks, and not really posable, but Yamato made theirs extremely posable, and decently sleek without too much trouble.

It's just that compared to the VF-19, the VF-17 doesn't look nearly as hard to do. The only previous attempt at the VF-17 was Bandai's, and they surpassed that without really having to try, while improving on the previous YF-19 seems a much more impressive feat.

Are you kidding? Look at the line art. In order to do the 17 correct it would need whole new legs in Battroid mode alone. They go from impossibly flat in fighter mode to ridiculously HUGE in battroid. The 19 was far easier to get the proportions close in all three modes then the 17.

[arrow]

One thing I hate about the design is the huge feet thrusters sticking out.

[Loop]

Thanks for posting you review Jenius, I do agree that this toy has it's faults and was very pricey on release. I think the pricing issue really boils down to the weak USD against the Yen though and Yamato being a smaller company. Maybe they expected a lower sales number for the 17 mold and decided to balance that out with price, thinking only true fans on the 17 would buy it? All speculation aside though, I only handled my 17 enough to get it into batteroid mode as I prefer that mode the best. I really wish Yamato would have gone with some sort of sliding mechanism so the backpack would be closer to the body. Over all though I am happy with it and feel it is the best version to have in my collection (really no other choice for 1/60).

[ArchieNov]

Question: Is it possible to remove the "boob" guns or are they glued into place? I just noticed that the guns on my unit aren't aligned properly. I've tried pulling them out but it won't budge.

[Mommar]

The chest guns on mine easily slide off. I had to glue them down so they would stop.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Mommar

[ErikElvis]

edit: whoops wrong thread

Edited August 20, 2012 by ErikElvis

[ArchieNov]

The chest guns on mine easily slide off. I had to glue them down so they would stop.

Sigh, the guns are glued tight on mine. I tried putting more force into pulling them out but I think any more would cause it to snap. Oh well, guess I have to live with it. My 17 seems to have a lot more issues than other people do (loose ankle extension ratchets, loose forearm extension ratchets, etc).

[Loop]

Sigh, the guns are glued tight on mine. I tried putting more force into pulling them out but I think any more would cause it to snap. Oh well, guess I have to live with it. My 17 seems to have a lot more issues than other people do (loose ankle extension ratchets, loose forearm extension ratchets, etc).

Damn, sorry man. It's like buying a friday car. The model of car is awesome, unless it was built on a friday

[MacrossJunkie]

Sigh, the guns are glued tight on mine. I tried putting more force into pulling them out but I think any more would cause it to snap. Oh well, guess I have to live with it. My 17 seems to have a lot more issues than other people do (loose ankle extension ratchets, loose forearm extension ratchets, etc).

Unlike the 171's, the 17's aren't poseable. Mine are glued in place as well.

[Loop]

I've asked Yamato about the final color of the stripes on the VF-17D, but no reply yet.

Graham

Still no reply Graham? I just want to make sure I am buying the right thing at this point. If I have to buy the valk by itself and then buy a seperate set of super parts to get the Diamond force, I'm OK with that. I am still seeing white stripes for the version that includes super parts and blue stripes for the one that does not include the parts. I am using the Yamato site for color reference, when you zoom in using the zoomer you can tell one is white and one is blue. I hope it's just a mistake with the photos.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Loop

[kurdt_the_goat]

Question: Is it possible to remove the "boob" guns or are they glued into place? I just noticed that the guns on my unit aren't aligned properly. I've tried pulling them out but it won't budge.

One of mine had to be glued down. They only slide back on one way (there's a channel) to ensure they're aligned correctly ... so i'm not sure how wrong yours could be!

[IXTL]

Lots of new photos of the VF-17D and super packs over at Amiami.

Selected pics.

[charger69]

Really looks like a bald man in these shots

Edited September 6, 2012 by charger69

[Mommar]

Those pics really help the fast packs look better then some of the old stock footage. However I think Yamato should have made a few changes or made the packs a little more dynamic. The leg packs should fold up in fighter so that there isn't that weird scoop coming down off the wing (not necessarily easy/feasible), and the shoulder packs should extend upward in Battroid so that they're not so obscured behind it. I know line-art accuracy is tough but they should stick out over the shoulders more then they do. They still look good and I can't wait for mine but I feel like they went the easy route with these a little bit.

[IXTL]

The leg packs should fold up in fighter so that there isn't that weird scoop coming down off the wing (not necessarily easy/feasible), and the shoulder packs should extend upward in Battroid so that they're not so obscured behind it. I know line-art accuracy is tough but they should stick out over the shoulders more then they do.

The shoulder packs do extend up slightly, which is what this image is trying to show. Would be better if it could slide up even higher though.

[Mommar]

The shoulder packs do extend up slightly, which is what this image is trying to show. Would be better if it could slide up even higher though.

It's showing the cannons folding but that's not what I'm referring to. Look how high the packs stick up over the shoulders in the line-art.

[ErikElvis]

I really think they could have done better with the head. 17S FTW!

[lechuck]

The head is growing on me, but it definitely is not instant win.

As for the super packs... I think they look pretty tacky in fighter mode.

Wish I had waited just a little longer to get the -17D w/o them, would have saved me 40€.

[IXTL]

It's showing the cannons folding but that's not what I'm referring to. Look how high the packs stick up over the shoulders in the line-art.

Nope I wasn't referring to the folding of the barrel. Look at the lower image. One shoulder pack is raised and the other isn't.

[Mommar]

Nope I wasn't referring to the folding of the barrel. Look at the lower image. One shoulder pack is raised and the other isn't.

That's a difference of millimeters. That's hardly what I was referring to.

[valhary]

nobody upset with the clown nose on the forehead

[Mommar]

I think it looks more like a cherry on a cupcake than a clown nose. It's not a great design choice but I wouldn't say I'm upset. More disappointed they didn't make a few slight design alternations to the slope of the head.

[Raptor One]

17D head looks badass. Complainers gonna complain.

(it really does look like a cherry though lol)

[Reïvaj]

This would have certainly looked much better if they had simply used a little piece of tinted clear plastic.

[Scream Man]

Man i wish I could afford this guy, but once u close on $400 shipped, Im out.

maybe i should get it and just sell the FP's, try and make some money back, i dunno.

edit: or just buy it without them. I didnt even know that was a choice!

Edited September 6, 2012 by Scream Man

[Reïvaj]

Man i wish I could afford this guy, but once u close on $400 shipped, Im out.

maybe i should get it and just sell the FP's, try and make some money back, i dunno.

Why not just to get it without the FP's?

http://www.nippon-yasan.com/lang-en/macross/3261-macross-7-vf-17d-diamond-force.html

http://www.hlj.com/product/YMT00237

[mechaninac]

Really looks like a bald man in these shots

Definitely not their best interpretation of line-art. The crest should have been more prominent, with the sensor dot sunken in (and made of clear red plastic as others have mentioned); the curvature of the forehead should've been less rounded to visually slope more; the chin is too "weak"... it should stick out a little; the visor is too much of a thin slit... it should be twice as thick as they made it; the surface under the visor also looks wrong... it should be comprised of variable sections along a spline instead of a single curve.

Overall, it's not that it's "bad"; it's just that it could have been so much better. Bandai's head rendition for the VF-171EX is dead-on, while Yamato's VF-17D's is 70% there, at best. Even taking into account that the 171 had animation grade 3D meshes for reference, there is no excuse for Yamato's lack of fidelity in their interpretation in light of feedback that Graham gave them when the resin prototype was first shown... to me, the production version looks no different from that prototype, so they did not bother to improve the outlook at all.

Edited September 6, 2012 by mechaninac

[Raptor One]

I don't think they really put that much effort into the 17 line at all, in terms of the little details

[ff95gj]

I like the VF-17D head better than the 17S one in terms of the toy. Just personal preference.

[Mog]

If I do wind up buying this, I'm probably gonna do some minor custom touches.

Probably paint the head to look more like a cap or cut down the number of stripes.

Gotta admit: I'm glad that they're going with more stylized poses and camera angles now.