Yamato 1/60 VF-17 Nightmare Diamond Force (Thread no.2)

[recon]

Being thinking of whether to add a vf17s/do and vf19s/d to add to my collection. Should I take the plunge or wait for arcadia to come up with a new and improved ver?

[Scyla]

I'm not sure they will release these molds any time soon. Especially since most of them are still in stock at a discount. If Arcadia is reissuing them I'm sure they will be only that and not renewal toys.

[charger69]

VF-17S Milia please

[Ignacio Ocamica]

VF-17S Milia please

. Yes please!

[Mommar]

Being thinking of whether to add a vf17s/do and vf19s/d to add to my collection. Should I take the plunge or wait for arcadia to come up with a new and improved ver?

If you're going for a 17/19S there's very little "plunge" so to speak as they're heavily discounted and quite a good deal. If you prefer the white stripe/head style of the 17D/19F more then they will be more expensive. Personally I love all of my 17/19's S/D(x2)/S/F/P and think you would be happy purchasing them.

[close313]

I'm thinking of getting either 17 with SP or a VF-171(probably EX). What I'm looking for is something very fun to play with and won't break (excluding my skin) so I'm leaning towards this. If i get the 17, is it easy to repaint those yellow trims of the 17S? Especially those on the legs, will they scrape at the back plate on fighter mode?

[Knightdramon]

If you want something that's very fun to play with...don't bother with either toy.

Seriously.

The VF171 from bandai appears to be very, very fiddly to transform. End result looks very nice, but the fiddliness and the perpetuity of bandai's offerings to get loose joints without being touched worries me a lot.

The VF17 from Yamato is bigger, very heavy...and again, fiddly. The battroid mode isn't as poseable as you'd want to be, and after being spoiled from the VF19, the way the backpack and legs get into position reminds me of the older YF21. Legs are overly long for battroid mode. Shoulder pylons get in the way of arm movement a lot. Because it is ridiculously tight, you can't transform it easily at all in the first few tries. You can seriously break the cockpit or the landing gear doors. Gun placement on the back of the legs makes both the legs suffer and the gun. Due to the weight, the legs don't really lock onto the backplate in fighter mode, and they can become unhinged if you pick it up. They stay clipped on just fine if it rests on a surface.

Bandai's VF171 has much, much better fast packs, but the way they engineered the wings that pop off to be replaced, plus how heavy his gun on the right arm is, combined with Bandai's joints loosening for no good reason...little longevity on this sucker.

Yamato's VF17 fastpacks is just robbery in your face. Around 50 USD, if you're lucky, for 4 pieces of plastic that don't even have internal detailing.

I had a 17S that I sold this December, the thing was barely transformed 2-3 times and left in its box forever.

Hopefully my message will make you think better about a potential 200-300 USD mistake. At least if you get the bandai valks, you might be able to get your money back if you sell it.

[close313]

Welp! Thanks for your view, that really opened my eyes. I hear what you're saying so I guess I'll consider other stuff to get. I was thinking of this as this is the only VF variant that I don't have yet.

I've been in limbo on the idea of buying a VF-17 and was quite impressed of the valk when fellow members at the picture gallery thread shared their 17D pictures with me. Haha i was actually hoping someone would give his opinion about this toy which will give me the final push into getting this.

Edited February 2, 2014 by close313

[Knightdramon]

Both variants [bandai and yamato] look great. Yamato's has that thick 90ies animation simplicity charm, Bandai's has this very modern and angular design.

Perhaps somebody with better experiences can chime in and try to persuade your mind towards the good side of either toy.

Or perhaps because the VF19 is my favourite transformable toy, ever, I'm kind of indifferent to battroids that don't lock everything into place, or very limited leg articulation in battroid.

Since the VF17D is one of my favourite designs, I'm seriously hoping for a better toy down the road.

[Pedro2k6]

I have both....and both are great, in my experience. Try to watch all the video reviews at anymoon.com that may help you.

P.S: you can have both for 300 usd before shipping (VF-17S on hkcollectibles.com and the VF-171EX on mandarake but both with out FP)

Regards and sorry for my bad english

[Mommar]

Welp! Thanks for your view, that really opened my eyes. I hear what you're saying so I guess I'll consider other stuff to get. I was thinking of this as this is the only VF variant that I don't have yet.

I've been in limbo on the idea of buying a VF-17 and was quite impressed of the valk when fellow members at the picture gallery thread shared their 17D pictures with me. Haha i was actually hoping someone would give his opinion about this toy which will give me the final push into getting this.

Okay, hold on, Knightdramon obviously has a HUGE bone to pick here. The VF-17 is not that hard to transform, all three of my 17's (1 S, 2 D's) all hold their legs up just fine in Fighter mode. The Gun looks cool, no idea what his issue is there. Yes, the legs are a bit long and thin, but that's just reality riding up along Anime Magic and it doesn't look horrible. The 17S looks like a brute in Battroid and it plenty easy/fun to pose and looks really menacing. Plus Gerwalk is actually pretty decent to pose as well and can look cool in it's own right. The Fast Packs make my D look cooler as well. I'm not sure what he was looking for but for $50you go from a bare 17 to a cooler, more armored one, and that's all I really expected. Reconsider the 17, it's pretty fun to play with IMO.

The 171 is also very cool looking in all three modes but I personally don't like the transformation at all. Well, the transformation to Battroid. Back and forth between Fighter and Gerwalk is relatively easy. With the Armor on it's even more of a pain and even Fighter to Gerwalk and back suffers. That being said, it looks great in all three modes and poses really well in Gerwalk and Battroid. Other people around these boards don't seem to have as hard a time transforming the 171 as I do so my minuses may not be yours.

Bottom line, both look great and pose well.

[Knightdramon]

Considering that for 50 USD You got the VF1 fast/strike packs, half of which had removable covers with detailed interiors, a plethora of customizing options via stikers, missiles versus the VF17 FP, yes, that's my beef.

It's not that the VF17 with FP doesn't look nice. It's that its original retail was pretty steep, considering what such retail got you from the very same company.

And as you said, they both look great and pose well---little doubt about that. However, especially following the VF19, they aren't such fun toys to handle and certainly not very fun, as our friend asked.

[Mommar]

Considering that for 50 USD You got the VF1 fast/strike packs, half of which had removable covers with detailed interiors, a plethora of customizing options via stikers, missiles versus the VF17 FP, yes, that's my beef.

It's not that the VF17 with FP doesn't look nice. It's that its original retail was pretty steep, considering what such retail got you from the very same company.

And as you said, they both look great and pose well---little doubt about that. However, especially following the VF19, they aren't such fun toys to handle and certainly not very fun, as our friend asked.

The 19 looks good in fighter and poses well in Battroid. The 17 poses at least as well in Battroid and actually has a Gerwalk that isn't terrible in addition. In terms of the fast packs, there's a lot of internals for transformation, which means some moving internal parts, that's where the extra expense comes from. They do contain magnets too. On the other hand the 19 doesn't even support additional packs. I will admit the 17 doesn't fit together as well as the 19 does, but that doesn't make it less fun. It's certainly not at the level of getting a VF-1 then a VF-0 or YF-19 where they things didn't hold together and where floppy.

[Chronocidal]

I'd personally disagree with the "not being fun to handle" part, though I've probably gotten used to the occasional stab wound from my VF-17s.

Both designs have their good and bad points, depending on how you like to display/play with them, so it's really up to personal preference. I personally just enjoy fighter mode mostly, and I love being able to easily transform things back and forth.

While I do prefer the actual design of the 171 to a point, and it does have some points over the VF-17 for how well it locks into fighter mode, it's also the absolute least fun to transform of any valk I own. It's fiddly, the wings go flying, the legs jam up and won't rotate correctly due to the shoddy rotation mechanism, and every time I look at it, I'm expecting the shoulder pieces to explode. I love the design, but it's just not any fun.

On the other hand, the VF-17 is pretty much a plastic tank. It uses significantly less die-cast, and isn't as pretty, but it's solid as a rock. It can still be a beast to transform correctly, but it's actually enjoyable, because I don't feel like I'm fighting against mechanisms that don't want to fit right, and I'm not worrying about scraping paint off all the time, or the wings flying off.

I'll admit, I'm biased toward the Yamato designs, because I just prefer the simplicity and functionality of their designs over Bandai's mess of overcomplicated mechanisms. It's the same thing for all the Bandai valks really, I just don't enjoy transforming them.

[Knightdramon]

On the other hand, the VF-17 is pretty much a plastic tank. It uses significantly less die-cast, and isn't as pretty, but it's solid as a rock. It can still be a beast to transform correctly, but it's actually enjoyable, because I don't feel like I'm fighting against mechanisms that don't want to fit right, and I'm not worrying about scraping paint off all the time, or the wings flying off.

I'll admit, I'm biased toward the Yamato designs, because I just prefer the simplicity and functionality of their designs over Bandai's mess of overcomplicated mechanisms. It's the same thing for all the Bandai valks really, I just don't enjoy transforming them.

I was under the impression that Yamato's VF17 had much more die-cast and heft over the 171.

[Scyla]

I don't know. I think that the VF-171 is actually pretty easy to transform after I figured out how to snap the forward fuselage into the spine in Battroid-Mode.

Personally I prefer the VF-171 because it has a backpack that collapses and sits flush against the back.

[aaajin]

Being thinking of whether to add a vf17s/do and vf19s/d to add to my collection. Should I take the plunge or wait for arcadia to come up with a new and improved ver?

I'm not sure they will release these molds any time soon. Especially since most of them are still in stock at a discount. If Arcadia is reissuing them I'm sure they will be only that and not renewal toys.

not too sure about re-issuing the exact mold. I remembered Mr K posted a pic of Bandai's VF-171 on his tweeter and said there was a meeting with Bandai reps here, but IIRC, the meeting turned sour (based on google translation). Maybe the translation was wrong, so not too sure about that. But from the whole thing, one thing is for sure : Mr K thinks Yamato's design of the 17 can be improved. Maybe theyre working on a 17 renewal as we speak, but who knows?

[Chronocidal]

It does have that, but I've not once gotten the hips on a 171 to fit correctly, or lock in any position. They just flop around in the breeze. What's worse is that it seems like that was intentional, and it makes me want to slap their engineers for designing such a shoddy system.

And actually, you're right, the 17 does have a ton of die-cast.. inside. It's unpainted, and hidden most of the time, because it's all used on the internal structure, like I wish Bandai would do more often.

I dunno. I know it's been said Bandai's valks could be designed by the same CAD teams as Yamato's, but the design philosophies seem to be almost polar opposites of simple and sturdy with Yamato, and flashy and complicated for Bandai. The little folding triangles on both of them is a perfect example.. Bandai made those little origami folding panels that are probably one of the most failure prone pieces on the valk. Yamato? They just made a folding flap that attaches to the leg, and folds out of the way. They pop off, but snap right back on, and there's nothing to break.

If Arcadia did ever try to improve the 17, I don't think much needs to change at all.. maybe redesign the nose a bit to droop less, and rework the front landing gear so the doors work better.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Chronocidal

[aaajin]

As Mr K said about the meeting :

そうですよね～。 改めて考えると「マクロスメカ」を商品にしている所って、弊社とバンダイさんくらいだものね～。（他に有ったらごめん） 仲よくしないと…。 と思うのです。

Google Translation : - That's right.

I place you have a product to "Macross mecha", ne ~ what I much Bandai-san and our company to think again. (I'm sorry When I met other)

Do not get along well ....

I think with.

[Mommar]

The 17 could use a redesign still, I think, even though I love the one's I have now. The intakes need to clip into something, especially in Gerwalk mode. The section aft of the cockpit needs to fit down more snug in Fighter/Gerwalk. If they implemented something like on the 171 so the pack would sit more flush, but could also be set back to the farther position like it is now for more dynamic posing, that would be good too.

[skullmilitia]

The 171EX is a breeze to transform once you figure out exactly how it's supposed to.

If they ever do a Renewal of the 17', it needs a gimmick for stubbier legs, and removable intake

covers.

[Renato]

aaajin:

That translation is very misleading. What he actually said was:

"That's right... Now that I think about it, the only companies making Macross mecha are Bandai and us. So we have to try get along..!"

He mentions nothing about a meeting, let alone it going sour. He bought the VF-171 "for reference", without revealing anything specific. Some other user mentioned something about interchangeability of weapons between the two companies' products and he agreed that that would be interesting.

[jenius]

I would stop short of saying "a breeze" on the 171 but after like my 10th transformation I did start to get a hang of it. The 17 can be alright to transform but it can be incredibly hard the first couple times through because of how crazy stiff some parts are. I like both toys. If the 171 didn't have the stupid wings I'd like it more than the 17 but I think that's largely because the 171 is a better vehicle.

[aaajin]

aaajin:

That translation is very misleading. What he actually said was:

"That's right... Now that I think about it, the only companies making Macross mecha are Bandai and us. So we have to try get along..!"

He mentions nothing about a meeting, let alone it going sour. He bought the VF-171 "for reference", without revealing anything specific. Some other user mentioned something about interchangeability of weapons between the two companies' products and he agreed that that would be interesting.

haha...I had a feeling the translation was kinda iffy...thanks for the explanations!

[Mommar]

To be fair, the 171 is based off of a relatively realistic CG model versus the nigh-impossible shape warping done 1) in animation and 2) in freaking Macross 7.

[Mommar]

I just went back and transformed my 171 EX with the armor on. Pulling those hands out without getting the arm extension stuck? Good luck. Keeping the armor on (those thighs) good luck again. The armor on the 17 just works... the hand extensions do too.

[Renato]

I gave up on the extending fists on the 171EX a long time ago. I think after the second transformation I have only been using the pop-on fixed pose hands and not bothered with the retractable feature at all.

I did notice that the joints are significantly looser now, after playing around with it again for the first time in several months. I remembered why I stopped buying Bandai stuff. I can't believe that I'm going to be duped again by them now that the Ozma 29 has been announced.

[close313]

Thanks for all of the views guys, helped my decision alot. I have set my eyes on a VF-17 since I'm not really a fan of 171's fighter mode and Alto's colours on it, but mostly the latter. I love the way CF 171 looks in battroid and gerwalk and would immediately buy that over 17 or Alto's but sadly being plagued by defects(been reading the 171 thread too) severely puts me off buying that. The complexity of the 171's transformation is also something that I like though.

Of course I'd like to have both eventually, just that I don't have enough to get both at the same time. Might still change my mind though, giving myself a week before confirming (or something awesome pops up at mandarake).

[Reïvaj]

That's a good decision IMO. I guess you know about this:

http://www.hkcollectibles.com/macross-robotech/7024-vf-17s-diamond-force.html

http://www.hkcollectibles.com/macross-robotech/7150-super-pack-for-vf-17-30th-anniversary.html

[Mommar]

That's a good deal at hkcollectibles.

[close313]

Yup im watching those too. Hope my 1 week of waiting doesnt end up having those sold out.. as Im also waiting for wonderfest 14 announcements and save money for those repaints/rereleases instead if i like them more.

Edited February 3, 2014 by close313

[YF-29 Durandal]

That's a good decision IMO. I guess you know about this:

http://www.hkcollectibles.com/macross-robotech/7024-vf-17s-diamond-force.html

http://www.hkcollectibles.com/macross-robotech/7150-super-pack-for-vf-17-30th-anniversary.html

$331.40 original price... crazy. I suspect that HK Collectibles has a number of these collecting dust so if you don't absolutely must have one today just wait for the price to drop down to ~$125 before buying.

Edited February 3, 2014 by YF-29 Durandal

[Knightdramon]

$331.40 original price... crazy. I suspect that HK Collectibles has a number of these collecting dust so if you don't absolutely must have one today just wait for the price to drop down to ~$125 before buying.

FFS stop going around threads and complaining about prices.

Better yet, do some damn research of your own.

http://www.hlj.com/product/YMT00235/Sci

The HK collectibles price is a typo, or they upped the price on their own.

Original retail price WITH fast packs was 29.600 yen, which according to today's exchange rate is 292 USD. Below your d*mn 300 USD nagging limit.

Happy now?

As for the prices on the VF17D, VF17D with fastpacks and pretty much everything bar the VF19S and VF19 Kai, you can thank the mass hysteria that overrun people when they thought Yamato would close down and no other company would get Macross products like these, so everybody and their mother suddenly started paying crazy prices because "they're going to disappear".

[Firefox]

As of now, HK Collectible is having a 55% discount on VF-17S. The price is at HKD1119 (roughly USD145). I think this is as best as you could get. VF-17 generally doesn't fetch good price despite their original high price tag. VF-19F gets a higher price now.

[YF-29 Durandal]

FFS stop going around threads and complaining about prices.

I can't complain about crazy prices?

Better yet, do some damn research of your own.

For my paper?

http://www.hlj.com/product/YMT00235/Sci

The HK collectibles price is a typo, or they upped the price on their own.

I think that it's probably the latter.

Original retail price WITH fast packs was 29.600 yen, which according to today's exchange rate is 292 USD. Below your d*mn 300 USD nagging limit.

$292 is still crazy high.

Happy now?

I'm happy with sensible pricing.

As for the prices on the VF17D, VF17D with fastpacks and pretty much everything bar the VF19S and VF19 Kai, you can thank the mass hysteria that overrun people when they thought Yamato would close down and no other company would get Macross products like these, so everybody and their mother suddenly started paying crazy prices because "they're going to disappear".

But they didn't disappear, they are collecting dust in a store.

Edited February 4, 2014 by YF-29 Durandal