Yamato 1/60 VF-17 Nightmare Diamond Force (Thread no.2)

[Lightning]

If anything, the opening of DYRL? shows the majority of the things being discussed.

[Mommar]

I think most/all VFs have active stealth (EM jamming to fool enemy sensors), as opposed to passive stealth (mask, absorb, redirect detection systems). If I'm not mistaken, the VF-0, SV-51, YF-19, YF-21 are all mentioned to be stealthy to varying degrees, like your example of Nora sneaking up, and not registering on radar even when clearly visible, on the F-14s. The VF-17 and VF-171 look like they employ both systems given that they're shaped derivatively from the passively stealth F-117, much more so for the 17.

Long range weapons definately gives the combatant with the best "first look, first kill" ability a distinct advantage, but if both sides posess comparable over-tech active stealth technology of equal capabilities than targetting and engaging a beyond visual range target becomes impossible; you'd need within visual range in order to shoot anything other than a nuke and hope to hit anything. Maybe that's one of the reasons for all the missile swarms.

When it comes to visual dedection in space, a low albedo paint job would certainly be of help in keeping you undetected from head on, or if you're on momentum alone with engines off your chances of maintaining your stealth are also significantly affected by the finish on the VF. So an all black VF-17 running silent would have the best chance of all VFs of sneaking up on an enemy. And, err, stars' lights only twinkle (blink) within the heat distortions/eddies of an atmosphere... in space, no atmosphere means no blinking, so anti-collision blinkers would be a dead givaway in space.

As a matter of fact the reason why every weapon on the 17 is internal is precisely because it has passive stealth. The 171 does not, however, from what I understand. The giant gunpod hanging from below kind of kills that.

[Valkyrie addict]

F-117A Nighthawk as mentioned had passive stealth by its diamond shape and special "RAM" coating that absorbs radio waves to minimize its radar cross section. It's design was highly unstable and pretty much unflyable if not by several computers keeping the aircraft straight, the intake and exhaust were also covered within a mesh housing to reduce RCS, making it a subsonic aircraft with no afterburners, it had also no AA capability, no gun, and could only carry a payload of 2 AG missiles. So in essence the F-117A was a slow, clumsy, undefended aircraft that if could be engaged and shot down easily by visual contact. This is why it was painted black and only did night missions.

As many Macross aircraft that are based on real life aircraft, the VF-17 is based on the F-117A, so its aesthetics has no real function in the Macross universe, I'm sure a clever explanation can be given as to why it has that design, but the VF-17 was just designed inspired on real life counterpart, a popular concept by Kawamori.

[usagiz]

Has anyone thought about doing a red recasting of the vf-17 gunpod cover? That would solve the missing beam adapter that yamato left out... I'd take 3!

http://macross2.net/m3/macross7/vf-17s-nightmare/vf-17s-beam-gunpod.gif

[plutoniumhunter]

Wouldn't passive stealth be moot when there's an active stealth system?

[Lightning]

Wouldn't passive stealth be moot when there's an active stealth system?

What if the fuse for the active system blows?

[plutoniumhunter]

True, but wouldn't designing the entire Valkyrie to have passive stealth in case the active stealth blows be quite an overkill redundancy?

[Mommar]

That's only double redundancy, that's hardly overkill.

[plutoniumhunter]

Well, depends how you look at it I guess, but anyways, it's design is just kind of homage to the F-117 I guess, and as Valkyrie addict mentioned above, its aesthetics might have no real function in the Macross universe anyway.

[ErikElvis]

Just got my 2nd 17D. The R shoulder pauldron is floppy and the left ankle is awfully loose. seems to stand ok just dont think it will do any excessive posing.

[Chronocidal]

Makes me think that there might be a mold flaw in the right shoulder pieces, that sounds same as the problem mine had.

You can probably pop the shoulder off easily to examine the joint, but the problem seems to be that the shoulder won't be glued shut all the way, and there's room to slip off the metal shoulder piece. I wound up cutting off the locator pins for the upper and lower piece, and gluing them manually, but it really changed how the piece looks, because I wound up needing to fill a gap and file it smooth.

[Lightning]

well, fully transformed it back and forth. Still can't get the back sections to slide together, tried everything I could think of short of introducing foreign elements into the mix.

[Mommar]

Back sections to slide together? What do you mean?

[Scyla]

I think he means the backpack that slides together to close the gaps in the back of the toy.

[master of macross]

i love

[Lightning]

I think he means the backpack that slides together to close the gaps in the back of the toy.

Yep! I tried everything. It just doesn't want to do it.

[Mommar]

Yep! I tried everything. It just doesn't want to do it.

They don't completely close. The gap is only reduced. Unless they aren't sliding at all, which would be extremely odd, if they shut a little bit then you've worked properly.

[Lightning]

no movement at all. It is odd, it's like somebody at the factory glued them in place or something. It doesn't really bother me to be honest, but I've never heard of it before on the -17's.

[Mommar]

That is a new one. Can you flip the back plate over and take pictures? Maybe we can spot something on the mechanism that is different/jammed/etc...

[Lightning]

next time I transform it yeah, right now it's happily sitting beside it's sibs in Gerwalk mode.

[ErikElvis]

1 standalone 17D at hlj http://www.hlj.com/product/YMT00237

[Ignacio Ocamica]

Would this be a fair trade?:

I've kinda lost interest in my DX 1/60 VF-27 Brera Sterne (it's been staying untouched in fighter mode for ages). So I was thinking I want another 1/60 VF-17S.

I've checked evilbay and the DX VF-27 (new) starts at $400 before shipping, don't know the price for a used one. My VF-27 is in a very good condition with no scratches at all, everything present, hands, fold conector, gun, instructions, but no box/styrofoam.

The VF-17S has suffered a heavy discount, so I'd ask for a straight trade. Should I post this trade in the for sale/trade section?

[plutoniumhunter]

You can get the VF-17S at HKC for about $167 without shipping: https://www.hkcollectibles.com/macross-robotech/7024-vf-17s-diamond-force.html

[Ignacio Ocamica]

Yeah, I know, I've seen it as low as 180/190 shipped but I was thinking of doing a trade. Thanks for the head ups!!

[Lightning]

That is a new one. Can you flip the back plate over and take pictures? Maybe we can spot something on the mechanism that is different/jammed/etc...

there it is.

[Gakken85]

Looks really cheap to me :/

[Lightning]

or my camera just sucks at closeup shots. take your pic.

[Negotiator]

lightning, it looks the same as mine. Note that only the plastic piece slides. Maybe try loosening or taking it apart and see if the metal bar is too tight or something.

[Lightning]

maybe that center screw on the bar is too tight perhaps?

[Valkyrie Magnus]

You can get the VF-17S at HKC for about $167 without shipping: https://www.hkcollectibles.com/macross-robotech/7024-vf-17s-diamond-force.html

Good price! Looks like another purchase.

[Lolicon]

Recently picked up a VF-17S. That's one beefy valkyrie!

Things I like:

-Although I like the design of the 171 more, the quality of Yamato's effort beats the pants off of anything from Bandai.

-Straight wings that actually stay on.

-Love the purple-tinted canopy. The tint on the renewals looks weak compared to this.

-Clear parts for the wing lights, instead of just some beige paint.

-Excellent pilot figure. Makes the Bandai pilots look like they're made out of partially melted wax.

-Actual interior cockpit detail.

Things I don't like:

-Lack of tampo printing! Omitting major markings like the UN Spacy kites is just lame. What is this, 2004?

Actually, that's the only thing I dislike about the VF-17. So if I want an anime-accurate version without resorting to using those terrible stickers, I'd have to locate some properly sized UN Spacy decals (or make my own), apply them, then apply some kind of clear coat to the entire craft (since it'll look really awful to have a clear coat finish on one section and bare plastic on the rest). And if I'm doing that, I might as well detail this sucker up as much as I can.

Thanks Yamato for selling me a great VF-17 model kit!

[Mommar]

Well they're out of business now so you showed them!

[jenius]

So the 17D with super parts is all sold out at HLJ huh? I just updated my post on anymoon to include the content. As most of you know, that was pretty easy since the 17D is nearly the exact same toy as the 17S. Added a few pics though:

Overall, I still think it's a 'pretty good' toy... but not excellent like the 19 toys (or Bandai's V2 renewals and YF-29 toys).

[lechuck]

No word on the controversial head, no word on the overpriced fast packs, Yamato's release tactic with the -17D...

Jenius you are letting me down here...

[Mommar]

The head is only controversial if you consider one bit of lineart over the other. Overall the D looks fine. If Jenius doesn't feel the fast packs are overpriced, and his review wasn't at all about the FP's or Yamato's business practices in general i.e. the releases, then there's no reason for him to dock the toy. The sins of the father and such.

I think his review is decently fair. I would have scored it lower for various other reasons myself but he doesn't miss too many beats about the actual toy itself.