Avengers

[renegadeleader1]

just got back from watching Avengers and can honestly say its easily on par with the first Iron Man film. Very entertaining with great humor and very well done action scenes. The plot is pretty good too, but I can see how if someone who skipped say Thor, or Captain America might not catch on right away with what's going on. Still I highly recommend it.

And for those of you who want dark and edgy(ooooo) hold your peace and go see the next Batman Dark Knight movie so you can watch Batman suck at his job, get his friends/thousands of innocents killed, brood about how much his life sucks, get his back broken, and get upstaged by catwoman.

[Golden Arms]

Just got back from seeing the film and it was awesome. If you haven't seen it yet, hang around after the end credits.

[Chewie]

Some of you guys, I swear.

The movie was absolutely fantastic.

That's it.

Stay after the credits as usual.

[myk]

Haven't had this much fun in a movie since...well I can't remember when. Yes, the story is so simple it's stupid and I hate Samuel Jackson but being able to watch fantastic characters that I used to dream about as a kid, walking, talking, bickering, battling and strutting their stuff as a team on a screen in front of my face is a dream come true. The humor of the movie also gave it a charm that, in my opinion, elevates it above the eye-rolling criticism that was spewing out of what you could call the "true" comic book story fanbois in the audience. For once, in a very long time, I walked out of a movie wondering of the day that I could bring it home.

Oh, and that VERY last scene in the movie is hilarious; that is SO going to be my desktop wallpaper, LOLz...

Edited May 4, 2012 by myk

[Dobber]

Loved it!

Chris

[robodragon]

Fantastic movie. It was a Hulk Smash!

[Dobber]

The Hulk and Thor scene in the building was priceless!

Chris

[Valkyrie23]

I saw the midnight IMAX viewing - EPIC. Definitely changes the standard for ensemble comic book driven movies. DC has NOTHING on Marvel in the action arena. Marvel FTW!

[Roy Focker]

I'll have to see it next week.

[eugimon]

it is the awesome. Go see it.

[robodragon]

The Hulk and Thor scene in the building was priceless!

Chris

So was the Hulk and Loki Scene.

[myk]

I saw the midnight IMAX viewing - EPIC. Definitely changes the standard for ensemble comic book driven movies. DC has NOTHING on Marvel in the action arena. Marvel FTW!

I saw it at 3:15 am, lol. I particularly enjoyed the battles between the Avengers themselves; I'd list them here but don't want to ruin it for anyone. Now this is just my opinion, but RDJ/Stark stole this movie in terms of personality and energy. Whenever he talked or moved I couldn't wait to see what would happen next...

[Penguin]

Just saw it this afternoon. Tremendous fun. Action, humour, and character.

[Mog]

Just got back from watching it. Wifey was awesome enough to watch the toddler and baby, while I spent 2 hours and 43 minutes enjoying a movie (first movie I've watched in an actual theater since District 9 ).

That was a fun, FUN romp!

Hulk was a pleasant surprise for me. His response to Loki's "speech" was absolutely pitch perfect.

Also, I'm not certain about all my Marvel history/lore, but

that was Thanos during that little scene between the end credits, right?

Yeah, make sure you stay until the VERY END of the credits

Sh*t! If I spent the past few hours saving the freakin' world from an alien invasion, I'd sit back and eat some grub at a local hole-in-the-wall diner too!

Kinda funny (after the fact) that some of the people in the audience shushed us during that scene.

[Penguin]

Also, I'm not certain about all my Marvel history/lore, but

that was Thanos during that little scene between the end credits, right?

Sure looked like Thanos to me. Him smiling at that line about "courting death" cinched it.

[terry the lone wolf]

Loved it! Loved it! Almost makes up for the bad news of MARVEL cancelling Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes show..

[grss1982]

The Hulk and Thor scene in the building was priceless!

Chris

Puny god was better.

[Omegablue]

Personally I don't find much fault in that; to me that would be like criticizing car companies for continuing to manufacture cars with wheels, doors and stuff. Sure the formula has been around for ages but truly creative and inspring individuals can take that cliched formula and keep enough twists and nuances in it to keep us entertained. Well, at least the dull, glass-eyed masses like me anyway...

The more people think like this, the less our creative potential brittles away to corporate formulas.

There is this lovely line in "It's a mad mad mad mad mad mad world" where Ethyl Mermym says "things like this happen because of people who says things like this happen when things like this happen." Or in other words, if people would stop watching mindless movies about superheroes beating each other up for no reason then movie companies would stop making them. Superman showed that it is possible to make a good Superhero picture (original Spider Man and Tim Burton's Batman as well). The problem today is the never ending desire to go further and further overboard with Special Effects. (I should add Iron Man into the good mix, it was at least a different take on Super Heroes and the Stark character is truly interesting)

Thank you, and nice!

I for once want to see a superhero movie where the bad guy wins. He/sge kill millions of people at the end of the film, and even wins the hot girl. The end.

I want to see superheroes with real problems, like addictions, drugs, affairs, not given a hell about the world but just wearing a cape cause they're paid.

It is so endless to create something new, refreshing, and our reality closer to these films, and give them a longer lifespan than just a summer fever.

Let's say instead of Agent Phil dying mid way through the movie, it was Nick Fury. That what would have a real interesting motivator for the film.

And lets add tha in end most of the city did get nuked by it's own government? Now that would have been emotional!

Nope, what we get, another identical script of every superhero film. I'm sick of it. This is the reason dropped comics when I was kid, and moved into Anime.

And the script was messy and loopy. Like how the Hulk attacks anyone in the first half, and suddenly for the final battle he's a super best friend.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Omegablue

[Golden Arms]

Yes Mog,

That is who you think it is. Which makes for a kickass sequel. My initial fear of a Avengers/justice league movie is that you need a villian or threat that exceeds the capabilities of the combined protagonist. We'll definately have that in the sequel.

Omega, the movie that you want is the Watchmen. It has all of the angst that you seem to want. The Darknight also had a very dark tone and ending. One could argue that the Joker did win.

Skyline isn't a superhero film, but the ending is very bleak.

I think some of your criticsms of the movie are unfounded. They did provide an explanation of why the Hulk seemingly went with the group. It's the same reason that's in the comics which you no longer read. The Hulk saw an even greater threat to himself and Banner and acted in his own interest. Which makes it even cooler.

Tony Stark for two films was a self centered, egotistical womanizer. Very flawed. I think he embodied some of the moral trappings you wish of your heroes.

[Mr March]

Saw The Avengers last night with a group of friends and we all had a great time. As ever, Joss Whedon's dialogue was one of the biggest attractions of the film, producing dozens of classic lines with perfect delivery for big laughs. The visual gags were also a huge laugh and several involve the Hulk acting in amusing ways. The action is surprisingly good and it's clear the filmmakers were keenly aware of the fundamental attraction of each character, because each was showcased reverantly. The acting was solid, particularly the resonant performances by Mark Ruffalo as Banner/Hulk and again Tom Hiddleston reprising his never-quite-redeemable Loki. The ego battles between the Avengers made for some great scenes, many evoking chuckles or producing genuine tension. The special effects were put to good use and while such effects are ever expected in big films like this, the effects had added gravitas thanks to a cast of characters we actually care about. The Avengers is definitely up there with the first Iron Man as the better of the Marvel movies.

Having said all that, The Avengers is so very much a comic book movie and that is to it's detriment. The story is more than a little trite and never manages to elevate itself above the preposterousness of it's premise. Of those films from recent memory, I think only 2009's Star Trek is comparable to The Avengers for absolute comic-like absurdity. The Avengers is an amazing action film and incredibly funny comedy, but it's ridiculously silly. But like Star Trek, The Avengers can never be faulted for failing to offer a great time and ultimately never fails to satisfy as pure fluff entertainment. This movie is another example of a film that actually has the laughs and entertainment we're lead to believe, in contrast to so many other Hollywood summer movies that fail to deliver.

Overall I'd give it a 4 out of 5. Again - much like Star Trek (2009) - The Avengers is as good as big dumb spectacle movies get.

As a big Thor fan, I have to admit one of the best laughs was the Thunder God delivering the line: "He was adopted", which I suspect is likely to become a meme at some point

Edited May 5, 2012 by Mr March

[Dobber]

As a big Thor fan, I have to admit one of the best laughs was the Thunder God delivering the line: "He was adopted", which I suspect is likely to become a meme at some point

Forgot about that one too!

Chris

[myk]

The more people think like this, the less our creative potential brittles away to corporate formulas.

I seriously mean no disprespect but we need to remember that these are COMIC BOOK characters brought to life, certainly not Hamlet or some other great intellectual work. There are good guys, bad guys, a conflict, a battle, tight spandex, boobs, a resolution and toy sales to follow afterwards. What sort of ingenuity and innovation do you think can be culled from that formula? I would estimate that people who criticize movies like Avengers for being too simple, stupid and cliche retreat to the Dark Knight and possibly Watchmen for needed brevity and seriousness, however despite how much I admire those films, I can't help but laught at those movies; why? Even though I watch those movies regularly I am also of the opinion that they take themselves far too seriously. But then again, ultimately it's a matter of style and I don't fault either type of movies as they're attempting to connect with us on different levels.

I would also venture to say that when you have that many front line, signature personalities clumped together in a movie like Avengers that any sort of gravity or weight that an individual character could share with us is invariably lost.

Again, I'm well aware that Avengers is hardly stimulation for the higher functions of the brain and doesn't bring anything revolutionary to the table. My primary enjoyment came from watching characters that used to be on crude paper have now been brought to life before my eyes and it's thoroughly enjoyable. Just because the automobile hasn't changed much theoretically over the last 100 years doesn't mean you can't enjoy it, and just because Avengers is merely another superstar rollercoaster ride doesn't mean you can't enjoy that too...

Edited May 5, 2012 by myk

[cwmodels]

I'm gonna chime in on a few thoughts...

I do give the movie it's credits for pulling off a good balance act with some many character involved. None of them felt short changed or left out.

The movie is very straight forward, no twist or surprises. On one had it is good they didn't try anything that could be stupid, but on the other hand it offered nothing to make it go above and beyond a good solid comic book movie.

Black Widow's character and background got the most benefit of of this movie. She was fleshed out into a real character.

Loki was handled much better as a character than he was in Thor.

Captain America was also handled better.

Tony Stark's character is far more restrained than he was in Iron Man 2. Which is a good thing.

Samuel L Jackson actually acted instead of doing his usual shtick.

To my surprise, the movie took itself very seriously, almost too seriously.

The last 1/3 of the movie is where I felt I got my money's worth. The first 2/3... not so much.

The Cosmic cube after 2 movies is still not addressed by it's official name and still not used to it's full potential as one of the most powerful objects in the Marvel Universe that can warp reality and space. (this is where I have a lot of trouble since this aspect can be fixed so easily)

The glowing jewel on Loki's staff... is that an Infinity Gem? (Mind gem? Soul gem?)

The aliens turned out to be just generic jet ski aliens. Nothing special.

Was really expecting the Red Skull to pop up, but that didn't happen.

[anime52k8]

>snip<

I'm sorry to hear that sir. I honestly can't imagine what it's like for you to have absolutely no joy left in your soul, but I give my deepest condolences to you and yours regardless.

[Raptor One]

Movie was awesome. I need to go see it again now that I've gotten past all the anticipation and expectation and worrying about whether it will be good.

Like how the Hulk attacks anyone in the first half, and suddenly for the final battle he's a super best friend.

My theory is that turning into the hulk is like doing drugs. In other words, depending on your mindset when you go into it, it can either be a good or bad trip. If you think about when the Hulk turns out to be a mindless berserker it's when Bruce is resisting and dreading the transformation. The two times when he fought for the greater good (at the end of "The Incredible Hulk" and the end of "Avengers") were when Bruce consciously decided to go Hulk in order to help out. It's like Stark said, he needed to not just tolerate but embrace that side of him. So no I don't think that was a plot hole.

[Chewie]

Omega, it's a comic book movie. Most of the time, the good guys win. The times they don't are usually in direct relation to real world events, like 9/11. Otherwise it's SOOOO ridiculously off the wall movie wise. House Of M, Age of Apocalypse, Civil War, etc. Those could be done in multiple movies but they also encompass the entire Marvel universe.

These movies are also the beginnings of things for these franchises. You didn't see Tony Stark as an alcoholic in the first Iron Man. Hulk hasn't been shot into space by the Illuminati.

Also, good job on the spoilers in the middle of your post.

[Omegablue]

I think some of your criticsms of the movie are unfounded. They did provide an explanation of why the Hulk seemingly went with the group. It's the same reason that's in the comics which you no longer read. The Hulk saw an even greater threat to himself and Banner and acted in his own interest. Which makes it even cooler.

When did this happened, and was explained and shown?

Criticms unfounded? So the movie wasn't predictable every five minutes?

And yes, it started like just about every other superhero film, where a villain presents a threat for vague reasons, and ends with saving the city from a nuke at the last second while nearly dying.

Rather say you're Marvel fan, and you're happy with the film. Nothing wrong with that. Though defending its flaws, causes the talent from the writers and etc of such a film to not improve on their project.

Having said all that, The Avengers is so very much a comic book movie and that is to it's detriment. The story is more than a little trite and never manages to elevate itself above the preposterousness of it's premise. Of those films from recent memory, I think only 2009's Star Trek is comparable to The Avengers for absolute comic-like absurdity. The Avengers is an amazing action film and incredibly funny comedy, but it's ridiculously silly. But like Star Trek, The Avengers can never be faulted for offering up a great time and ultimately never fails to satisfy as pure fluff entertainment. This movie is another example of a film that actually has the laughs and entertainment we're lead to believe, in contrast to so many other Hollywood summer movies that fail to deliver.

You recognized what it's worth, unlike the millions out there hailing it as the greatest action film ever. +1

I seriously mean no disprespect.

Again, I'm well aware that Avengers is hardly stimulation for the higher functions of the brain and doesn't bring anything revolutionary to the table. My primary enjoyment came from watching characters that used to be on crude paper have now been brought to life before my eyes and it's thoroughly enjoyable. Just because the automobile hasn't changed much theoretically over the last 100 years doesn't mean you can't enjoy it, and just because Avengers is merely another superstar rollercoaster ride doesn't mean you can't enjoy that too...

I know you didn't mean any disrespect. All good. I was actually a bit too hard with my reply, and didn't mean it directly at you.

Now please hear me out on the following. I lecture 3D animation, concept design and storytelling. I promote inspiration, borrowing, as means to learn and evolve. Though the moment published work in the entertainment field resembles too much what's been done a hundred times, you cap your creativity. That's a sin for any artist in any field. Also I promote that to really reach people, and give them something memorable out of your work that lives more than just a movie season, there needs be a bit of harsh realism. Avengers had zero of that. It was a great comedy, yes, great wanking visuals, but it wasn't anything... new or wow.

And again, it's sad, they missed a opportunity to take a cheesy franchise, and turn it into something cinematically iconic for the comic book industry, which without the films is dying, because they keep rewriting the same stories over and over again.

Now onto the flaws with the film.

Heroes can only remain great as long as their villains are equally great. Not just in personality, but visually as well. The villain needs to impale fear into the audience, bring out emotion and stay stuck in our minds. Like Vader in the OT, or Jack and Heath Joker's. Loki was anything but daunting in the film. And his army was a design mess from the Transformer's reject bin. Those things, what were they? They're no icons like Stormtroopers, or Frog Soldiers (MGS) or xenomorhps. And it was a real pity cause I was more moved by those last 2 seconds after the credits.

Next, at the end of the Thor film, it was made clear he couldn't return to Earth without that bridge device that got destroyed. He appears in Avengers without ever properly addressing that issue? And why did he come alone knowing Loki is such foe? A person should read the Marvel encyclopaedia before watching a film? Right? Even my friend, a Stan Lee worshipper couldn't answer me that one, and he's watched the film twice.

Another issue is that Loki, Thor and ect could be killed by arrows and knifes in the Thor film. But at the end of Avengers, Hulk smashes Loki to tiny bits through the floor many times, and not a scratch on Loki afterwards. Okay, so blade can go through Asgardian/Frost giant skin, but being plummeted through concrete and steel doesn't even leave a bruise? Please, let's not go with whatever technical laws of the Marvel Universe. That is a massive writing continuity error.

Then the whole Nick Fury taking the collector's cars and staining them with blood? Did he actually smear those cards in the blood of his most loyal agent? WTF? And considering it was those cards that motivated Cap and Tony to be part of the team, but not the sight of the actual dead body, was even more unrealistic. Yes, visually at first thought that scene may have seemed symbolic, but with five seconds thought it shouldn't have made it onto the script.

And then the script is ridiculously small town syndrome. Like how Stark tower fittingly was the centre setting of the film's most vital scenes involving Tony and the plot.

I've already spent hours dissecting this film with friends and my students, and the list of errors discussed is too long for me to type here. so I typed the first ones to mind.

As a epic action film, it didn't succeed as it will be easily forgotten by the next popcorn film. As a comedy, it wins.

Anyway, got work to do on this Saturday night. Chat later.

Also, good job on the spoilers in the middle of your post.

Whoops, apologies. Corrected. Sorry for that.

[Penguin]

I for once want to see a superhero movie where the bad guy wins. He/sge kill millions of people at the end of the film, and even wins the hot girl. The end.

I want to see superheroes with real problems, like addictions, drugs, affairs, not given a hell about the world but just wearing a cape cause they're paid.

It is so endless to create something new, refreshing, and our reality closer to these films, and give them a longer lifespan than just a summer fever.

Fair enough, but there is something to be said about criticizing a movie for not being what it was never going to be. The Avengers was never going to be that movie. Neither will any other movie based on a top comic property. The closest you'll get is some ambiguity in outcome, like Nolan's Batman films.

Also I promote that to really reach people, and give them something memorable out of your work that lives more than just a movie season, there needs be a bit of harsh realism.

I have to take some issue with this idea, depending on what you mean by "harsh". I think to touch people you need realism in your characters (not that I'm implying Avengers delivered this, but in general). Films like My Neighbour Totoro have left lasting impressions on those who view them, and I certainly wouldn't characterize them as containing "harsh" realism. On the flip side, if you do inject harshness without characters you empathize with, you end up with self-indulgent angst.

The whole "how did Thor get to Earth" thing bugged me too, but it's something I recognized as a sacrifice to the business of movies. If it had been a comic, we'd have seen Thor and his friends find one of Loki's hidden ways to Earth so that he could follow. Instead, we get a throw-away line about Odin collecting "dark energy" to get Thor to Earth, because paying all the actors to reprise their roles from Thor wasn't in the budget, and showing him in Asgard without them would look phony. So, it gets left as a big, glaring hole in the story.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Penguin

[Keith]

Badguy wins? Watchmen, duh!

[Fly4victory]

I want to see superheroes with real problems, like addictions, drugs, affairs, not given a hell about the world but just wearing a cape cause they're paid.

Sounds like the start of the Ultimates, except for the antigonist winning.

You can always consider Shield as an antigonist, they stole Jane Fosters research, put Tony Stark under house arrest, and lied to Captain America. Bring on some Civil War darkness because the underlying currents are there.

[Omegablue]

Badguy wins? Watchmen, duh!

Actually the bad guy didn't win. That was more like a draw.

Still, that film moved me.

[Omegablue]

The Avengers was never going to be that movie. Neither will any other movie based on a top comic property. The closest you'll get is some ambiguity in outcome, like Nolan's Batman films.

Well that's a real tragedy and a waste of potentially great stories with such unexplored characters.

I have to take some issue with this idea, depending on what you mean by "harsh". I think to touch people you need realism in your characters (not that I'm implying Avengers delivered this, but in general). Films like My Neighbour Totoro have left lasting impressions on those who view them, and I certainly wouldn't characterize them as containing "harsh" realism. On the flip side, if you do inject harshness without characters you empathize with, you end up with self-indulgent angst.

What I meany by harsh reality is that the good guys are not invicible, and not all of them survive war.

Example, have one of the major heroes taken out by half through the film.

Concertrated on the aftermath scenes of final battle's destruction, like the victims being mourned by that finale battle instead of the usual feel good and gives a damn about the civilians ending.

Avoided silly moves like Black Widow perfectly timing her jump off Cap's shield when neither once looked up for a second.

Well there's so much more I can add, but I'm tired talking about this film for this week.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Omegablue

[renegadeleader1]

Well that's a real tragedy and a waste of potentially great stories with such unexplored characters.

What I meany by harsh reality is that the good guys are not invicible, and not all of them survive war.

Example, have one of the major heroes taken out by half through the film.

Concertrated on the aftermath scenes of final battle's destruction, like the victims being mourned by that finale battle instead of the usual feel good and gives a damn about the civilians ending.

Avoided silly moves like Black Widow perfectly timing her jump off Cap's shield when neither once looked up for a second.

Well there's so much more I can add, but I'm tired talking about this film for this week.

Okay first of all concerning your second spoiler(amazing you know how to use that feature considering one of your previous posts gives away a huge spoiler. My guess is you did it out of spite from being shouted down on opinion of this film) She keeps glancing up the entire time she is talking to Cap and nods to him when she is ready.

I also don't get what you mean by wasted stories, and unexplored characters. Its obvious its only the begining of the story for the Avengers, and we have already had 5 movies that have explored who these characters are and what makes them tick. If you expected any thing different after all that you are either ignorant or insane.

Granted in war not everyone survives, but there are always exceptions(the USS Massachusetts of WWII survived the entire war saw heavy action and did not lose a single man. May as well call it the USS Avengers Assemble in this context) and the "good guys" in this film as a whole did not come away unscathed.

Finally about the civilians, Cap goes out of his way to save them because that's who he is. He's not the god damned Punisher or Lobo for crying out loud! He gives a damn if people live or die, so does Tony Stark for that matter, otherwise he would never have bothered to put the armor on.

[Omegablue]

(amazing you know how to use that feature considering one of your previous posts gives away a huge spoiler. My guess is you did it out of spite from being shouted down on opinion of this film)

Really now... Are you 12 years old?

[renegadeleader1]

Really now... Are you 12 years old?

Physically? Closer to 30

Mentally? Closer to 21

Inner child? You bet! At least he hasn't been killed like yours has