Aircraft Super Thread Mk.VII

[Valkyrie Driver]

I get what your saying. I know it's well within our capabilities to build a fighter like the F-35 that can outperform the F-16 and F/A-18, while still capitalizing on those fifth generation capabilities. I'm just not sold on the idea that you can replace an airframe with one that lacks the fundamental characteristics of the airframe it's replacing. The F-35 is supposed to be a step up, and a step forward, but it seems like they only wanted to go forward with the technology, thinking that would cover for the deficiencies. It very well might, but we have yet to truly see if that's going to be the case. As missiles get better and targeting gets better, we're going to see the reliance on the tight turning dogfight become less emphasized, as it becomes easier for a stealthy aircraft to take out a target.

Just because that's the case, doesn't mean that the F-35 doesn't need to be able to do it. That's because if you look at history, the enemy (whomever it may be) will catch up and create a countermeasure that negates your advantage. So if it was within our ability to make the F-35 outperform the F-16, why didn't we do it? Because the design made too many compromises to compete against the A-10 (for the USAF F-35A). They should have narrowed the focus on replacing one airframe, the F-16, because the A-10 is sustainable, while the F-16 is in need of replacement (with more F-16's if you ask me, to supplement our acquisition of F-35's).

The F-35 will be at a disadvantage, when it's advantages get negated. That's the big thing here. Agility in a fighter is like full auto on my M4, I might never use it, but I'd rather have and not need it, than need and not have it.

[Knight26]

In sexy airplane news. A replica of the second sexiest airplane to ever exist, right behind the YF-23, flew for the first time, 75 years after the original was built. The Bugatti 100p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yZdrvgV4qE

Edited August 27, 2015 by Knight26

[Phyrox]

In sexy airplane news. A replica of the second sexiest airplane to ever exist, right behind the YF-23, flew for the first time, 75 years after the original was built. The Bugatti 100p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yZdrvgV4qE

Wow, I'm surprised this project has made such progress. Last I read the airframe was complete but the next step seemed more like a leap.

A really beautiful aircraft, and I'm impressed such an ambitious private enterprise seems to be on the road to success.

Not my favorite inter-war racer*, but certainly an interesting lost opportunity.

*-full disclosure, inter-war race planes are one of my favorite topics.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Phyrox

[spanner]

beautiful plane! looked like it was handling well too! Shame it got damaged at the end of the flight.. im sure they will repair it and it will fly again!

[Sildani]

Lovely. I suppose after the kinks are worked out, they'll put spats, or even trousers, over the undercarriage. I didn't see any provision for retractable gear.

Didn't look too bent, either. Good piloting.

[Knight26]

The brakes jammed on landing forcing it off the runway. Reportedly the damage is minor, some prop repair, clean up, and of course, fixing the brake issue.

[grigolosi]

Speaking of brakes and tires...here is a video a few may find a little interesting....it also demonstrates how insane the USAF has gotten with safety...check out the young airman who is learning and what all he has to wear....Driver I know you may get a kick out of this!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MukcRzbmNiU

[F-ZeroOne]

Q.R. codes on a fighter aircraft, we truly are living in the future...

[SchizophrenicMC]

Q.R. codes on a fighter aircraft, we truly are living in the future...

Michelin tires on a fighter aircraft, yeesh.

Actually, seriously, QR codes are a great idea for this stuff. You can pack a ton more data into them than standard bar codes, which is great for the long part numbers and serials on aircraft. Scan it in and you're done. Total cost: frakk all.

[grigolosi]

Actually we use all types of tires. Michelins, Goodyears and BF Goodriches. The Michelins and Goodyears hold up very well. Actually that part of the tire isn't serially controlled ironically enough. The wheel assemblies are. So when we pull a tire we have to remove the old wheel S/N and load the new one in the maintenance database. The Wheel is then sent to the back shop for rebuild. When we order parts we still fill out the information by hand on an order request form and then the supply folks that work in the unit have to type in the number by hand to order the part. They have the QR codes but the only folks who use them are the main supply warehouse folks for delivery acceptance and inventory.

[Valkyrie Driver]

We used QR codes on our weapons in the arms room. Made doing opening and closing inventory easy. One instance where technology actually makes life easier.

[VF-19]

Speaking of brakes and tires...here is a video a few may find a little interesting....it also demonstrates how insane the USAF has gotten with safety...check out the young airman who is learning and what all he has to wear....Driver I know you may get a kick out of this!!

What's so bad about approaching a "safety first" attitude to work? It's a dangerous enviroment around airplanes, and it's cheaper in the long run to be careful. Getting hurt sucks. Getting hurt (or worse, killed) and knowing that it could have been avoided with the right safety gear (and procedures too) sucks even more.

Edited August 29, 2015 by VF-19

[grigolosi]

The biggest problem is that it has become so overly prevalent that it can actually impede the mission at hand. There has to be a point where common sense prevails. Before I retired if we didn't have the blue Nitrile gloves on hand almost all work on the flightline would come to a halt. Because you are required to wear those gloves on all servicing procedures on aircraft. That is where safety becomes overly useless. Most military safety procedures are in place because of stupid people not using their common sense. That poor kid in the video was forced to wear ALL the IPE including earplugs (there were no aircraft engines running anywhere near them and he is supposed to be listening to his trainer) for the entire tire change even though he only needed them for specific instances in the procedure. Believe me I work on F-16's everyday and I follow a lot of safety procedures because like you said getting hurt or even killed sucks. But the stronger side of safety is common sense which is lacking severely nowadays.

Now the USAF does use the QR codes on tools in the tool support sections for quick check in. That does help with the friday night end of work week inventory.

[Valkyrie Driver]

The QR codes make it very easy to do inventory, thus reducing the risk of Airman/Private Snuffy, misreading a serial number or skipping a rifle, or missing tools or what have you, and forcing the entire unit to stay until said item is found. The inventory system will spit out that you missed something and because everything has a place, it will tell you exactly where it's supposed to be, if you missed it, you go back and check where it's supposed to be, if it's there, then you goofed, you scan it inventory done no big deal. If it's missing, it's not your fault, and you go find out who had it last and rip them a new a-hole.

As for over the top safety procedures, it's true. The USAF has become so risk averse it's not even funny. Do I wear nitrile gloves when I clean my own firearms, or work on my breaks? No, should I, probably, because chemical burns suck. Mitigating risk is one thing, but use some common sense. Some things are just retarted, like wearing your stupid glow belt everywhere. It got that bad at barksdale, that it became a required uniform item, from 6PM to 6AM if you were in uniform you had to wear a reflective belt. Why you ask? Because one airman almost got run down by a dependant that was talking on their cell phone.

The army is even worse about the stupid glow belts. The PT uniform is reflective, and they still have to wear the glow belts. They have to put them on their rucks, so cars don't hit them, as if you could miss the 90+ people all doing the same god damned thing. Also, why are you driving on a closed PT route jackass, shouldn't you be at PT?

So there's safety conscious, and then there's safety retarded.

[grigolosi]

Don't forget our own PT uniform had LOTS of reflective print on it also and they started making people wear their disco belts with them also. Now I have seen some horrible images of "bad decisions" made by folks in the maintenance field. Those alone are enough to make you think before you do something stupid or should make you think. The worst of the group was the Airman who was blown in half by an exploding tire. He attempted to "hot shot" a tire on an F-15. That is service it with pressurized gaseous nitrogen without a tire servicing adapter. He hooked the nitrogen hose directly to the tire and opened the valve and then boom one leg was under a hydraulic stand and the rest of him went somewhere else. That stuff as gruesome as it is makes a better statement and en grains safety in the mind.

[Valkyrie Driver]

Don't forget our own PT uniform had LOTS of reflective print on it also and they started making people wear their disco belts with them also. Now I have seen some horrible images of "bad decisions" made by folks in the maintenance field. Those alone are enough to make you think before you do something stupid or should make you think. The worst of the group was the Airman who was blown in half by an exploding tire. He attempted to "hot shot" a tire on an F-15. That is service it with pressurized gaseous nitrogen without a tire servicing adapter. He hooked the nitrogen hose directly to the tire and opened the valve and then boom one leg was under a hydraulic stand and the rest of him went somewhere else. That stuff as gruesome as it is makes a better statement and en grains safety in the mind.

Yeah. All the branches PT Uniforms have reflective bits on them, except the marines, who PT in their underwear (or what amounts to it). Even then that's kind of hard to miss, so...

As for the bad decisions made by maintainers, yeah, good lessons on what no to do. Oh, and then there's the in depth weekend safety briefs, that can all be summed up as, "If you have to ask if something's dumb, it probably is," and "Don't do dumb crap!"

[frothymug]

I live right down the street from Paine Field near Everett, WA. Several times today, it sounds like jet fighters taking off and then I can catch a glimpse of what looks like a pair of F-18s going south. The sound literally shakes my 2nd story porch and is loud as hell. Does anyone have any idea what the heck is going on over there? Sounds like they're using their afterburners on takeoff. I didn't know that they were allowed to do that at a civilian airport.

[grigolosi]

Most fighters take off in afterburner Frothy. Especially when they are loaded with external fuels tanks and are on smaller airfields. Also Paine Field is home to Boeing, they bought out McDonnell Douglas and now produce the F-18. The Hornets were probably passing through and landed for gas. There is no restriction on afterburner use though. Fortunately there are probably only a few of them at any time taking off during the week. If you can one of these days try to see if there are any markings on the tails. If there aren't any then they are probably aircraft form the St. Louis Plant transiting through on their way to delivery.

[grigolosi]

Here is a little something to get you going in the morning. This is the SU-35 demo from the 2013 Paris Airshow!

Edited September 2, 2015 by grigolosi

[frothymug]

I live a good 1-2 miles from the air strip. When they are in the air, I can barely see them above the treeline and they're going away from me. I don't think binoculars would be powerful enough to see any tail markings on them. I could see just enough to give a good guess that they are F-18s. I had no idea how loud those things can be when they're using afterburner. I mean, it was practically rattling the windows and making my floor vibrate. I thought a plane was about to barrel into the building, it was so loud.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Didn't you live in Ft Worth up until recently, Frothy?

[Knight26]

Frothy I used to work at Edwards I know what you mean. Now I live in Silverdale, working for the FAA, I miss the sound of jet noise some days.

[grigolosi]

Hornets are very loud in full burner, even at a distance for such a small diameter engine like the 404. It is way worse when you are standing next to the jet in full burner. I remember running ground on burner runs in the hush house at Misawa on the Blk 50 F-16's. You couldn't stand in one spot for very long. The vibrations were so strong you could feel yourself inching around along the floor. Then on top of it you can't even hear the run man in the cockpit even with a headset on.

[frothymug]

I moved to Seattle in July to work on my master's

[SchizophrenicMC]

I moved to Seattle in July to work on my master's

Yeah I remember that. How could you live in Ft Worth and never see an F-18 afterburning out of Carswell?

[Valkyrie Driver]

Yeah I remember that. How could you live in Ft Worth and never see an F-18 afterburning out of Carswell?

Ft Worth is a Huge town.

We used to get F-15E's come into Barksdale during Green Flag exercises (It's like Red Flag, only for ground attack aircraft). You'd get several minimum interval take offs of like 4-6 two ship flights, and it would rattle my barracks room (I remember it causing my VF-0A to tumble off it's shelf one time). Freedom yea-yah!

[SchizophrenicMC]

Ft Worth is a Huge town.

We used to get F-15E's come into Barksdale during Green Flag exercises (It's like Red Flag, only for ground attack aircraft). You'd get several minimum interval take offs of like 4-6 two ship flights, and it would rattle my barracks room (I remember it causing my VF-0A to tumble off it's shelf one time). Freedom yea-yah!

Ft Worth is big, but pretty much all of Tarrant County is under flight paths out of Carswell Ft Worth NAS JRB. Not to mention all the Lockheedery going on there. And all the opportunities to drive up the road to the Alliance Airshow every year.

I live in Arlington, mind you.

[Shadow]

Hornets are very loud in full burner, even at a distance for such a small diameter engine like the 404. It is way worse when you are standing next to the jet in full burner. I remember running ground on burner runs in the hush house at Misawa on the Blk 50 F-16's. You couldn't stand in one spot for very long. The vibrations were so strong you could feel yourself inching around along the floor. Then on top of it you can't even hear the run man in the cockpit even with a headset on.

So something like this but inside instead of out.

[F-ZeroOne]

It appears that the next U.S. bomber programme is a bit further ahead than everyone thought:

http://www.defensenews.com/story/breaking-news/2015/09/02/new-air-force-bomber-testing-stealth-wind-test/71572050/

In other stealth news, some Dutch F-16 pilots recently flew with F-35s and were impressed with its situational awareness abilities. Their opinions on its looks, gun-port flap, cost, manufacturer, whether or not the B ruined the whole programme or if they'd have been better off ditching the -16s for A-10s go unrecorded...

[grigolosi]

Pretty much Schizo but the engine in the Blk 50 has a higher thrust rating (29K). Here is one being run in the evening at Balad AB Iraq. Notice the difference in the burner flame.

Here is a burner run on a Blk 60 with the 32K thrust rated engine. These are the birds I work on here in the UAE and I have worked on this tail number also. Sorry about the damn music some people just don't appreciate engine noise. This was recorded while the aircraft were at Tuscon for the first few yrs of the program.

[frothymug]

Actually, I lived in Arlington. I really didn't notice any excessive noise during my four years living there.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Actually, I lived in Arlington. I really didn't notice any excessive noise during my four years living there.

I've lived here 10 years and I've seen plenty of afterburning military in that time. Between Ft Worth NAS JRB and Dallas NAS (Carswell and Mountain Creek Lake NAS) there's a ton of military traffic around here. Not to mention Fort Hood isn't far.

I'm just a bit surprised you haven't seen any, considering. Oh well. Now you know. AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE

[spanner]

I live not very far from Richmond airbase down here in Sydney's West and although they aren't actually stationed there we often see Hornets fly over from Williamtown and do stop overs at Richmond Air Base. They often fly over occasionally with afterburners lit! The racket they make is awesome! The whole house shakes!

[Valkyrie Driver]

Ft Worth is big, but pretty much all of Tarrant County is under flight paths out of Carswell Ft Worth NAS JRB. Not to mention all the Lockheedery going on there. And all the opportunities to drive up the road to the Alliance Airshow every year.

I live in Arlington, mind you.

I wasn't doubting you, but there were people in Bossier City, that didn't even know what size planes flew out of Barksdale. It takes 3 states to turn a B-52, so most of the city was under the traffic pattern, plus Shreveport. I'm just saying maybe not everyone gets that realization. I spoke to people that didn't even know there was an Air Force Base in Bossier City.

Mind you, that's Bossier City, Louisiana...

[Sildani]

It appears that the next U.S. bomber programme is a bit further ahead than everyone thought:

http://www.defensenews.com/story/breaking-news/2015/09/02/new-air-force-bomber-testing-stealth-wind-test/71572050/

In other stealth news, some Dutch F-16 pilots recently flew with F-35s and were impressed with its situational awareness abilities. Their opinions on its looks, gun-port flap, cost, manufacturer, whether or not the B ruined the whole programme or if they'd have been better off ditching the -16s for A-10s go unrecorded...

Interesting. A redone YF-23 will be far too small. I hope Northrop-Grumman gets this.

As for the Dutch: citation, please.