Aircraft Super Thread Mk.VII

[Gakken85]

Um I'm pretty sure it's F-22 Raptor

That's a nice size poster, I should go grab one.

Sorry, F-22A

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Nice poster. One of the reasons that I was rooting for the YF-23 to win back in 91' was not just that the YF-23 was most beautific, it was also the fact that the YF-22 looked gawky and kinda fugly to me. Luckily, the production Raptor turned out to look orders of magnitude better than the YF-22. For me, it turned from ugly to beautiful and sleek/mean. Quite drastic for those relatively little tweaks.

But YF-23 still kicks its arse in looks.

[Scyla]

Nice poster. One of the reasons that I was rooting for the YF-23 to win back in 91' was not just that the YF-23 was most beautific, it was also the fact that the YF-22 looked gawky and kinda fugly to me. Luckily, the production Raptor turned out to look orders of magnitude better than the YF-22. For me, it turned from ugly to beautiful and sleek/mean. Quite drastic for those relatively little tweaks.

But YF-23 still kicks its arse in looks.

I have to agree that the F-22 looks much better than the YF-22. I wonder how a F-23 would've looked like.

[Shadow]

I have to agree that the F-22 looks much better than the YF-22. I wonder how a F-23 would've looked like.

I'd imagine the controversial divider on the canopy would have been replaced by a similar canopy as the F-22A. I wonder if an F-23 would have received a similar paint scheme or would they stick to a solid color. It looked nice in black although that's not great for daylight missions. Also, would it have received the name "Raptor" or something else. I did like the name "Black Widow II"

Edited September 21, 2014 by Shadow

[Dobber]

I have to agree that the F-22 looks much better than the YF-22. I wonder how a F-23 would've looked like.

Supposedly, it would've been much subtler.

The blue is the YF in this image while the solid line is the production model A

Note the FLIR chin pod under the nose

Other proposed variants like a 2 seater and the Naval Variant

More images and info here: http://yf-23.net/F-23A.html

Chris

[F-ZeroOne]

Remind me again about that line that goes something like "canards are nice on someone elses fighter"...?

[electric indigo]

...and on doomed projects.

[Gakken85]

Apparently... According to CNN just now, the F22 is seeing action for the first time tonight.

[David Hingtgen]

That seems---odd. Surely there's no high-end fighters to patrol/defend against, and using it to bomb would be an insane waste.

Anyways----50 years ago:

First flight of the Valkyrie.

[Gakken85]

I'm sure the high end military analysts and former generals are just making crap up, and the experts here at MW would know more about it

It seems to have bombing capability, just nothing heavy duty.

It would be good to get some hands on combat runs with it, I'm sure - even if it isn't super effective.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Gakken85

[David Hingtgen]

I'm sure the high end military analysts and former generals are just making crap up

Well, it's because McNamara couldn't keep his plane names and numbers straight that the entire Naval force had to be redesignated...

[Nekko Basara]

Anyways----50 years ago:

First flight of the Valkyrie.

That's my favorite bird, right there. Thanks for sharing.

[renegadeleader1]

I'm pretty sure the F-22 is being used for escort duty right now. I'm not sure the Syrian airforce is taking too kindly to a foreign power violating its airspace and bombing targets within its borders. Especially since not that long ago the said foreign power threated war on them.

[sketchley]

Perhaps the F-22 is being used because of its stealthiness? Both Syrian armed forces and IS (stolen from the Syrian and Iraqi armed forces) have some powerful SAMs at their disposal.

[David Hingtgen]

If they wanted to bomb stuff stealthily, they'd have sent B-2's. Lots of bombs, uber-stealthy.

[Gakken85]

Nope. Found this today:

http://defensetech.org/2014/09/22/report-f-22-raptors-launched-airstrikes-in-syria/

“Using Navy Tomahawk cruise missiles and Air Force fighter planes, including stealthy F-22s, the U.S. carried out plans for strikes against more than a dozen targets inside portions of Syria controlled by Islamic State militants, officials said.”

The stealthy, highly maneuverable plane was likely used to penetrate and attack the country’s sophisticated Russian-made air defenses, among other targets.

“Syria is not Libya,” Mark Gunzinger, a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, a research organization in Washington, D.C., said last year in an interview with Military​.com. “Their air defense systems are more formidable. Using F-22s to help suppress those threats and support penetrating capability may be a good idea.”

in its air-to-ground configuration, the fighter can carry pairs of GPS-guided 1,000-pound GBU-32 Joint Direct Attack Munitions, as well as active guided AIM-120s Amraam and AIM-9s Sidewinder missiles. It was slated to be enhanced with upgraded radar and as many as eight small diameter bombs.

[Nekko Basara]

It's not unheard of for a new aircraft to be utilized (and risked) in a conflict where its capabilities are not strictly necessary or ideal. Recall that the first use of the F-117 in anger was against Panama, where air defenses were negligible and other, more conventional systems could have performed the same precision strike.

This type of deployment can provide valuable "first blood" combat experience. More cynically, it can generate good press and serve to answer critics that say an expensive and specialized new aircraft is unsuited to the conflicts of the day.

[Gakken85]

Plus more data to feed into the 35 development.

More War Porn:

http://www.businessinsider.com/a-10-slated-for-scrap-heap-is-now-fighting-isis-2014-9

The Pentagon will send a dozen A-10 Thunderbolt aircraft and up to 300 airmen to the Middle East in early October, to help in the conflict against the Islamic State group, the Indiana National Guard said.

The deployment of the 40-year-old aircraft comes just four months after it was controversially saved from defense cuts by Congress, whose rationale for saving it was simple: Cutting it would lead to the deaths of U.S. servicemen on the ground.

Oh Hell yeah!!

[renegadeleader1]

I think the sad thing about the A-10 being deployed is this may be the first time the Avenger cannon will be used on an Abrams tank. Who's bright idea was it to give the Iraqi army the M1 anyway? Downrated or not, that is not a system I would want in any enemy's hands.

Now for some good news. I was at the Nascar race sunday and the B-17G "nine-oh-nine" owned by the Collings foundation did the fly over. It trully is amazing to see an old girl like that still in the air. My only regret is not snapping a pic of it as it went by.

[dizman]

Now for some good news. I was at the Nascar race sunday and the B-17G "nine-oh-nine" owned by the Collings foundation did the fly over. It trully is amazing to see an old girl like that still in the air. My only regret is not snapping a pic of it as it went by.

Yeah the nine-oh-nine is an amazing aircraft. I took a ride in it a few years ago, definitely something everyone should get to do once. I even got to help hand spin the props before startup!

[Shadow]

I think the sad thing about the A-10 being deployed is this may be the first time the Avenger cannon will be used on an Abrams tank. Who's bright idea was it to give the Iraqi army the M1 anyway? Downrated or not, that is not a system I would want in any enemy's hands.

Now for some good news. I was at the Nascar race sunday and the B-17G "nine-oh-nine" owned by the Collings foundation did the fly over. It trully is amazing to see an old girl like that still in the air. My only regret is not snapping a pic of it as it went by.

Abrams, Armored Humvee's, M113s and T-55/62s (these are scrap anyway) Sad indeed to see us turn a Maverick or the Avenger on our own equipment.

I'm surprised and not so surprised to hear the Raptor was used. I don't feel it was totally necessary as it's role could have been handled by B-2 or an F-15C (for escort) The best planes Assad can put up is the Mig-29 and Mig-23MLD. I know we used the F-117 to bomb Panama in 1989 when it was still technically secret.

Also, Israel shot down a Syrian Su-24 after it went not even 1km into its airspace.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Shadow

[Gakken85]

F22 strike.

dropped two inert penetrators first, then the two HE's fell into the holes the penetrators made.

[mechaninac]

Using the F-22 in this operation is almost all about popping its cherry... and there is nothing wrong with that as the data and experience gained far outweighs the danger of one getting shot down by a lucky strike from the opposition.

Edited September 24, 2014 by mechaninac

[David Hingtgen]

F-16's doing night-time mid-air refueling on their way to strik ISIS, have a look at their load-outs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ahLNOzFVsHk

French MOD posted a neat video of their efforts:

Neat fact: A-10C combat debut soon, sending over the Blacksnakes:

Artist gets big points for how he did the tongue--that's brilliant use of the airframe.

Sad fact: they may very well be going up against M1 Abrams.

[Gakken85]

Yeah I linked to an A-10 story a few posts up that mentions the Tank issue.

[Shadow]

I forget but other than an avionics overhaul and ability to drop laser-guided munitions, are there any other big differences between the A-10C and the A?

[miles316]

I forget but other than an avionics overhaul and ability to drop laser-guided munitions, are there any other big differences between the A-10C and the A?

Glass cockpit. and I think they made new wings for the Warthogs.

[reddsun1]

This guy's pretty much reached that age where he'll go: "meh, fu*k them they don't know what they're talking about" to just about anything you ask him about. But still, he makes some good points....

[electric indigo]

I think I've seen this before in this thread...

[Devil 505]

This guy's pretty much reached that age where he'll go: "meh, fu*k them they don't know what they're talking about" to just about anything you ask him about. But still, he makes some good points....

Sprey is the same one who said that an M61 Vulcan was useless as a cannon because it took time for it to wind up compared to a revolver cannon like the M39 or the Mauser BK 27. In my opinion, he's just as credible as Carlo Kopp, who claims that the F-111 Aardvark was superior to the F-35.

[Nekko Basara]

I'm confused right from the start with Mr. Sprey, because it sounds like he's saying that the high-low fighter procurement concept was a sham that created two unsuitable aircraft, when the results of that philosophy were the F-15 and the F-16, the latter of which he is partially responsible for. In different ways, those are two of the most successful fighters of the past half century - the former as more of a "true fighter" than his baby, the F-16.

And what is he getting at with the idea that incorporating too many roles ruined the F-15? Wasn't the motto of that program "Not one pound for air-to-ground?" It was only later in its life that the F-15 showed it's capability as a ground-attack aircraft, and most of that was through a purpose-built variant, the Strike Eagle. Whereas the F-16 has been more of a multi-role craft for most of it's service life, and without any (production) specialized variants needed for the job.

I just don't get where he is coming from. With so many of his arguments stuck in the 70s, you'd think he'd at least know his history better.

[Shadow]

Tornado GR4s are now joining the party in Northern Iraq.

http://news.sky.com/story/1343207/iraq-british-jets-on-first-combat-mission

[D.D. Ivanov]

I think the sad thing about the A-10 being deployed is this may be the first time the Avenger cannon will be used on an Abrams tank. Who's bright idea was it to give the Iraqi army the M1 anyway? Downrated or not, that is not a system I would want in any enemy's hands.

Now for some good news. I was at the Nascar race sunday and the B-17G "nine-oh-nine" owned by the Collings foundation did the fly over. It trully is amazing to see an old girl like that still in the air. My only regret is not snapping a pic of it as it went by.

The Avenger isn't going to be used on anything more armored than a Humvee because missiles work better in every way.

[electric indigo]

Swedish kit maker Tarangus promises us that their 1/48 Viggen is just around the corner and has published a nice online reference gallery:

http://www.tarangus.se/all-new-viggen-model/reference-gallery-ja37-viggen/

[Dobber]

Just around the corner for a year now!

Chris