Aircraft Super Thread Mk.VII

[F-ZeroOne]

Actually, I sort of like it. But I suspect being that me being a chap, fellow or bloke might have something to do with that,,,

[the white drew carey]

Hey everyone!

I've been really busy of late, but was able to take a day off and go to the Abingdon Air & Country show here in the UK two weeks ago. The link below leads to the "best" photos I took of the event (using a new telezoom lens, so... I was still getting a feel for it).

Please forgive the overly simplistic descriptions, as they were written for an audience that is not nearly as knowledgeable as you guys!

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152044196036606.1073741832.713586605&type=1&l=7ede52af21

[F-ZeroOne]

Thanks for the pictures, a friend of mine attended the same event. I've actually flown (as a passenger) in a de Havilland Dragon Rapide like the one in your shots. Definitely a different era of passenger flight - when boarding, they warn you not to put your foot in certain places on the wing - lest you step through it! - and something that you don't really think about until you get in one is that its a tail-sitter. Kind of odd being vertically inclined before you've even started climbing!

[Noyhauser]

Hey everyone!

I've been really busy of late, but was able to take a day off and go to the Abingdon Air & Country show here in the UK two weeks ago. The link below leads to the "best" photos I took of the event (using a new telezoom lens, so... I was still getting a feel for it).

Please forgive the overly simplistic descriptions, as they were written for an audience that is not nearly as knowledgeable as you guys!

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152044196036606.1073741832.713586605&type=1&l=7ede52af21

Nice to see you Drew... and awesome photos, particularly of the Canberra... I love that aircraft. The offset cockpit was for several reasons. One, the "fishbowl" cockpit of the previous version wasn't that effective, so they went with a fighter type canopy. Offsetting it also made for more space for crew (and later) avionics. It made for better vision during landing, and apparently for oblique cameras as well (when they were installed).

I built a couple in 1/72 over the years... they are pretty cool aircraft IMO.

[F-ZeroOne]

When the Tornado entered service, it had some teething problems. The Tornado programme had started as "The Multi Role Combat Aircraft". Some wag re-jigged that to "Must Refurbish Canberras Again!".

Hmm, a multi-purpose fighter aircraft with early development troubles. What does that remind me of?

[David Hingtgen]

The Tornado at least wasn't trying to replace EVERYTHING at once. And its roles were frankly rather narrow---interceptor, not fighter. Airbase-strike and tank-convoy killer, not "any and all possible ground targets in any situation". The Gr.4's upgrades allowed a more "generic" SEAD role, but again--even the very multi-role F-16 has a variant dedicated towards that, and they don't try to use the same block to fill every single role.

F-35 is truly trying to do EVERYTHING, and the variants exist more for the differences in runways/airbases between the services, rather than differences in combat role.

[Ghost Train]

Does everything... but still need a -A, -B, -C variant in order to do everything.

[F-ZeroOne]

Look, just as long as you get forty or so Bs out the door so that we can have a Fleet Air Arm again, I don't care if theres as many variants as there are recolours of the RX-78...

Edited May 21, 2014 by F-ZeroOne

[charger69]

Can someone please tell me about these red lines on this Sea Vixen?

[Phyrox]

No-step indicators

[charger69]

Thank you

[Shadow]

Does everything... but still need a -A, -B, -C variant in order to do everything.

Technically the A, B and C are there to distinguish the specific type and launch platform they're meant for. A = standard aircraft, B = STOVL capability, more complex, C = Carrier capable. They all perform the same roles rather than a specific varient being made to take on a special role such as SEAD (F-4G, F-16CJ)

I still feel they went in the wrong direction with trying to have one aircraft take on the role of several. What there aiming for is for the F-22 to be the air superiority fighter with its small numbers and the F-35 to do everything else Along with a small army of drone aircraft. Nothing really inbetween. It would have been nice to see an interdiction aircraft developed along the lines of a stealthy F-111 to fill that gap where the F-35 lacks range and payload, and the B-1/B-2 are too costly to risk losing.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Shadow

[electric indigo]

You mean something like the J-20?

[Shadow]

You mean something like the J-20?

Thought the J-20 is being developed to be a fighter/interceptor.

[electric indigo]

We're one step closer to COFFIN/Electrosphere:

http://www.fp7-brainflight.eu/

German Press release

[Phyrox]

We're one step closer to COFFIN/Electrosphere:

http://www.fp7-brainflight.eu/

German Press release

I wouldn't call "huh, I wonder if this would work someday" a step closer to anything.

More power to 'em though, certainly.

[electric indigo]

The german text describes that scientists at the Technical University of Munich succeeded in translating EEG signals into commands for a flight simulator. That goes well beyond a paper concept.

[Shadow]

I didn't think Western Maine was that populated.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/05/29/guard-no-low-altitude-training-for-noisy-f-35-fighter-jets-in-maine/

PORTLAND, Maine (AP) — The newest fighter jets that have been the subject of noise complaints across the country won’t be flying low over the hills of western Maine under the National Guard’s proposal to increase the amount of training area for ground-hugging flights, official said Thursday.

The National Guard’s request to double the amount of airspace for low-level training over western Maine has dragged on for so long that the Vermont National Guard has received approval for cutting-edge aircraft that weren’t contemplated when the process began eight years ago.

But the stealthy F-35 fighters, which are noisier than the jets they’re replacing, won’t train at low altitudes in Maine. When they arrive in 2020, Vermont’s F-35s will be restricted to higher altitudes — no lower than 7,000 feet above sea level — where noise is less of an issue, said Landon Jones, a National Guard airspace manager who’s working on the proposal.

The F-35′s engine produces more noise than F-15 and F-16 fighters from National Guard units in Massachusetts and Vermont, which currently fly as low as 500 feet in narrow corridors within the 4,000-square-mile Condor Military Operation Area over western Maine and a sliver of northern New Hampshire.

The Massachusetts National Guard, whose fighters were first on the scene in New York after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, wants to increase the amount of area for low-level flights for more realistic homeland defense training.

The Massachusetts-based, twin-engine F-15 fighters need more space than the smaller, single-engine F-16s from Vermont, which usually train over upstate New York but sometimes travel to Maine.

The Maine National Guard is continuing to reach out to various groups, including the Penobscot Indian Nation, which owns 20,000 acres of land in the region, and hopes to complete a final environmental impact statement this fall, Jones said. After that, the Federal Aviation Administration will get the final say, and that process could take several more years, he said.

The National Guard had a similar proposal in 1992, but it was withdrawn under pressure from local residents and then-Gov. John McKernan.

The current effort has again faced gubernatorial objections, first from Democratic Gov. John Baldacci and then from Republican Gov. Paul LePage. LePage told the National Guard and the Federal Aviation Administration in 2011 that the expanded training area is a “want, not a need.”

Jones, a former pilot, disagreed with the governor’s assessment, saying the F-15 fighters need more airspace for maneuvering.

By spreading the maneuvers over a wider area, the noise will be dispersed instead of limited to existing corridors, or lanes, that are used for low-level flights. And the number of low-level sorties will be reduced once the Vermont National Guard switches from F-16s to F-35s, he said.

___

[electric indigo]

So the F-35 is super stealthy but you can hear them coming across half the country...

Are there any soundseeker missiles yet?

[David Hingtgen]

Louder than old F-15's? Wow.

[Knight26]

Louder than A-7s.

[LOW_ALT]

[anime52k8]

Hey Japan; what you been up to?

Oh nothing, just building stealth fighters.

[Shadow]

Looks like the copy of a copy of an F-22. Nice YF-21/X-31 vector nozzles by the way.

[LOW_ALT]

Looks like the copy of a copy of an F-22. Nice YF-21/X-31 vector nozzles by the way.

It's the Mitsubishi ATD-X test frame.

[electric indigo]

Profile looks nicer than the F-22

Too bad they can't afford to build it...

[wm cheng]

Nice! Is that the new Chinese J-20 shot down in flames in the background?! This Japan/Chinese rivalry is really all over the place now that I know about it.

[LOW_ALT]

[antibiotictab]

Looks like the copy of a copy of an F-22.

No surprising. The F-2s look copies of the F-16s.

[David Hingtgen]

pics

That the Mach 3 Phantom, whatever it was called?

No surprising. The F-2s look copies of the F-16s.

That is because they ARE copies, but official ones, with design approval/help from Lockheed to make the changes. I doubt this new Not-F-22 would be officially designed with help from Lockheed.

[anime52k8]

That the Mach 3 Phantom, whatever it was called?

F-4X (later RF-4X with the nose mounted camera) project Peace Jack.

Edited June 5, 2014 by anime52k8

[miles316]

F-4X (later RF-4X with the nose mounted camera) project Peace Jack.

What are the water tanks used for?

[Chronocidal]

Most likely, water injection in the engines. There was a period around Vietnam where they fiddled with things like that on turbojet engines, with some impressive performance increases. I know the F-105 set a speed record that way. That's what was going on when you saw older planes dumping huge black trails of smoke. The water cools the engine so you can achieve higher compressor RPM, and you get higher thrust from the increased mass flow rate, but the cooling also reduces combustion, so you get unburnt fuel in the exhaust.

I don't know if the benefits carry over into more modern turbofan engines though, since the majority of low speed thrust on those actually comes from the giant fan itself, and the primary use was for getting a take-off thrust increase for larger planes like the B-52.

[Model-Junkie]

Thanks for the explanation on the water tanks. I had read that the B-52's used to use water injections during MITO exercises but failed to carry that logic over.

Luftwaffe Bavarian Tigers painted one of their Eurofighters in Tigermeet paint :

Edited June 6, 2014 by Model-Junkie

[LOW_ALT]

Luftwaffe Bavarian Tigers painted one of their Eurofighters in Tigermeet paint

Being in the printing business I've often wondered if these are in fact paint jobs or if they're vinyl wraps. Does anybody know? The gloss finish looks like vinyl over-laminate, which would be necessary to preserve those colors.

*Side note: we recently were approached my a local company that apparently just purchased and re-vamped a small fleet (~100) 747's and they want us to produce the graphics for the aircraft. The amount of rules and stipulations the FAA has in regards to producing graphics for these planes are crazy. We would have to completely flush all the existing inks out of our printers (a $2,500 job + the cost of the existing ink), have someone from 3M personally verify the flush, use a very specific (pronounced "expensive") ink and there is only one type of vinyl that is allowed.