Aircraft Super Thread Mk.VII

[F-ZeroOne]

There was a horrible incident in the UK a few years back where a Hawker Hunter crashed onto a road lined with traffic and people "unofficially" watching a nearby airshow. The pilot somehow survived  and was put on trial, though he claimed to have no recollection of the crash. That tragedy led to quite a bit of tightening up of airshow regulations here.

Edited August 22, 2023 by F-ZeroOne

[Valkyrie Hunter D]

So it was my first time at Seattle's Museum of Flight.  Truly an amazing place. I haven't even gone outside for the B-52.

[Big s]

4 hours ago, Valkyrie Hunter D said:

So it was my first time at Seattle's Museum of Flight.  Truly an amazing place. I haven't even gone outside for the B-52.

It almost distracts from the lady taking a robot for a walk 

[Thom]

1 hour ago, Big s said:

It almost distracts from the lady taking a robot for a walk 

The future will be a wonderful place!

[Valkyrie Hunter D]

3 hours ago, Big s said:

It almost distracts from the lady taking a robot for a walk 

Yes, the Boeing droids occasionally still need assistance. 

 

Their WWII warbird exhibit is just outstanding:

Seeing the P-38 was a pleasant surprise.

[renegadeleader1]

6 hours ago, Valkyrie Hunter D said:

Yes, the Boeing droids occasionally still need assistance. 

 

Their WWII warbird exhibit is just outstanding:

Seeing the P-38 was a pleasant surprise.

If you are still in the area head north for about 20 minutes to Paine Field in Everett. The Boeing Factory is there as well as the recently reopened Flying Heritage & Combat Armor Museum. You will not be disappointed with the latter!

Edited August 28, 2023 by renegadeleader1

[renegadeleader1]

Anyways, the Museum of Flight... I was there three weeks ago for the Boeing Seafair Airshow. That Thursday they had a special for free admission after 5pm till they close at 9pm.

Ends up I didn't hear the closing announcement because I was so focused on taking pictures they shut the lights off on me while I was in the WWI and WWII exhibit!😆

[derex3592]

AWESOME!!!! I  could spend a week there!

[Thom]

Just spend a night there, in a sleeping bag under the wing of a P-38 or B-25.

[derex3592]

@Big sIs it just me or does the lady holding the hand of the kid next to that sign remind you of Minmay and the Petite Cola Machine in the 1st episode of Macross???

[Valkyrie Hunter D]

10 hours ago, renegadeleader1 said:

If you are still in the area head north for about 20 minutes to Paine Field in Everett. The Boeing Factory is there as well as the recently reopened Flying Heritage & Combat Armor Museum. You will not be disappointed with the latter!

I was thinking about visiting the Armor Museum too, but my wife can only withstand one museum visit with me before becoming irate, confiscating my camera. 

Seeing all these birds in person gave me a better perspective on their relative size, like how teeny a Harrier is, or how massive a P-38 can be.  The B-52 memorial was somber, but was still quite a spectacle:

Edited August 28, 2023 by Valkyrie Hunter D

[Big s]

8 hours ago, derex3592 said:

@Big sIs it just me or does the lady holding the hand of the kid next to that sign remind you of Minmay and the Petite Cola Machine in the 1st episode of Macross???

It took me a while to even see the kid. I kinda thought the same about the machine though 

[kajnrig]

NTSB's initial report on the recent air show crash:

 

 

[Thom]

So the guy in that back seat, and I don't care about his experience and such, decides to take control out of the hands of the pilot... Yes, who knows if this was recoverable, the investigation is not done yet, but even it it wasn't I'm assuming the pilot would have/may have had an alternate land/crash site, rather than being just kicked right out of his own airplane. I'd say that pilot observer is gonna have a lot of explaining to do!

[renegadeleader1]

10 hours ago, Thom said:

So the guy in that back seat, and I don't care about his experience and such, decides to take control out of the hands of the pilot... Yes, who knows if this was recoverable, the investigation is not done yet, but even it it wasn't I'm assuming the pilot would have/may have had an alternate land/crash site, rather than being just kicked right out of his own airplane. I'd say that pilot observer is gonna have a lot of explaining to do!

The Mig-23 didn't have zero/zero ejection seats and the plane was approaching it's minimum safe ejection speed. It was either punch out then or trust the pilot of a rapidly descending ailing aircraft to not make you a synchronized smear mark on the ground with him.

 

I would have punched out too.

[Thom]

On 8/31/2023 at 4:25 AM, renegadeleader1 said:

The Mig-23 didn't have zero/zero ejection seats and the plane was approaching it's minimum safe ejection speed. It was either punch out then or trust the pilot of a rapidly descending ailing aircraft to not make you a synchronized smear mark on the ground with him.

 

I would have punched out too.

The problem with that shows there was no trust between the seats. It's possible the pilot would have called for ejection in another few moments, or he could have steered it to a course over the water, or possibly it was recoverable. Investigation is not done yet to know, but to have the back seater just decide to pop out when something goes wrong is its own recipe for trouble. As was stated, the pilot was working the problem and was surprised by the ejection, with which the Gs involved could have caused him even more harm than was already suffered.

But the main point is, the pilot was the one in command of the plane it was his decision to make. If the observer was not going to trust him with that decision, then he should never have been in that plane. I would not trust him to sit behind me.

And listening to pilots discussing the event, I hereby correct my above statement, as it was hogwash. They were not just approaching minimum ejection, they were at it, with a plane that even if the engine would restart would still take to ten to twenty seconds to get back to making thrust again.

This armchair pilot should remember not to talk with my mouth full of my foot!

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Thom

[kajnrig]

Listened to a fun story about Navy Flight School inspired by Top Gun. About 13 minutes long.

https://themoth.org/stories/danger-zone

[Bolt]

It's amazing to me that the F-15 is still in service, within the US arsenal. Granted many blocks later, but as far as design, engineering and performance. And still being relevant in the theater of combat. Wow..

[M'Kyuun]

59 minutes ago, Bolt said:

It's amazing to me that the F-15 is still in service, within the US arsenal. Granted many blocks later, but as far as design, engineering and performance. And still being relevant in the theater of combat. Wow..

The F-15 and F-16 are both impressive aircraft from the 70s, such that they're both flying along with the likes of fifth generation fighters like the F-22 and F-35, and may still be flying with sixth gen. 

Segueing from old to new, I've been looking at blended wing designs and stumbled on Jet Zero's Z5 USAF Tanker concept. Jet Zero Unveils Midmarket Airliner And Air Force Tanker BWB Plan | Aviation Week Network. Knowing how conservative the AF is when it comes to forward thinking designs, after all they passed on the YF-23, oft considered to be the superior design, for the more conventional YF-22, learning that this blended design is actually being considered was pleasantly surprising. I hope it proves out in testing and development and makes it into service, as, from my reading, it seems that blended designs like this are being considered by the commercial developers like Boeing and Airbus as well. Supposedly, they're more economical, using less fuel and featuring more interior space for pax and cargo than the conventional tube and wing design. From an aesthetic POV, IMHO, they're also more elegant and graceful in addition to their utility and economy. I hope I live long enough to fly on one some day.

 

[Bolt]

That is quite the elegant design, indeed. 

[M'Kyuun]

27 minutes ago, Bolt said:

That is quite the elegant design, indeed. 

I think so, too, and the fact that money has been awarded for a scale demonstrator shows the seriousness of its consideration. I worked on KC-135s for many years; those planes were built in the 60s and many are 60 or turning 60 and slated to fly for at least another decade. I have no experience with the KC-46, the newest tanker based on the Boeing 767, but the fact that the Pentagon is willing to fund development of yet another tanker, one that's rather forward thinking in its shaping and proposed use of hydrogen for fuel with zero emissions indicates open-mindedness that we didn't see back in the late 80s, early 90s when the ATF competition was happening. I applaud that and hope BWB designs become reality within the next decade. 

[AN/ALQ128]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/b-21-raider-has-flown-for-the-first-time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAWr6BC_A4w

Exciting days for avgeeks, B21 with its first public flight and NGAD winding up for a public reveal sometime soon(ish)

 

[Thom]

I'd make a slight correction to the story, as it is the third stealth bomber. The erroneously designated F-117 was the first.

Pretty cool though, finally seeing it in the air.

[Big s]

1 hour ago, Thom said:

The erroneously designated F-117 was the first.

Technically it is a fighter, it just fights ground targets

[F-ZeroOne]

By that definition... all bombers are fighters... 😉

[renegadeleader1]

22 minutes ago, F-ZeroOne said:

By that definition... all bombers are fighters... 😉

Swede Vejtasa: I wanna be a fighter pilot!

 

US Navy: No. You are a bomber pilot.

 

*Swede proceeds to shoot down three enemy aircraft in a day in an SBD Dauntless at Coral Sea.

 

US Navy: Um... So you wanted to be a fighter pilot you say? How does a transfer sound?

*Swede proceeds to down seven more enemy aircraft in a day at Santa Cruz.

[electric indigo]

So I herd you like Valkyries...

 

[AN/ALQ128]

http://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2023-11-airbus-to-make-eurofighter-fit-for-electronic-combat

"Following the recent parliamentary approval by the German budget committee, Airbus will equip 15 German Eurofighters for electronic combat - and equip them with a transmitter location and self-protection system from Saab, as well as "AARGM" anti-radar missiles from the American company Northrop Grumman. The Eurofighter EK is to be NATO-certified by 2030 and will then replace the Tornado in the SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defence) role."

[F-ZeroOne]

Hmm, wonder if the MoD will be interested as well? I don't think theres currently even a defence suppression weapon in the RAF inventory since we got rid of ALARM. I always liked that missile though I've never been able to find out how effective it was.

In more tragic news, an Osprey has been lost off Japan:

 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-67563915

Doesn't sound hopeful for survivors... 😔

[electric indigo]

How to get out of a flat spin in your F-104 by Chuck Yeager:

...or not.

[Thom]

A good pilot knows when to get out.

[renegadeleader1]

4 hours ago, Thom said:

A good pilot knows when to get out.

He's lucky it was a later model. The early F-104's had a downward firing ejector seat through the floor of the cockpit. Using that would have made him a human lawn dart.

[Thom]

27 minutes ago, renegadeleader1 said:

He's lucky it was a later model. The early F-104's had a downward firing ejector seat through the floor of the cockpit. Using that would have made him a human lawn dart.

Still would have been the first!

 

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by Thom

[David Hingtgen]

Just a false canopy?  Amateurs.  You've gotta add a false mid-air refuelling receptable, and I believe we even have a false tailfin and its shadow (I do think the "black" resembles the shadow of a -16 fin, if the light was almost above and only slightly to the side) (tilt your head left and have a look, especially as the shadow "wraps" around the curved nozzle area)

 

[Thom]

Even have the crew's helmets!