Aircraft Super Thread Mk.VII

[SchizophrenicMC]

I just want to point out, the tiny little X-2 is .09m shorter than the VF-1. (And has .8m wider wingspan)

[Sildani]

Very nice. Reminded me of an F-22 RC model when it took off, it's so small. Hopefully this tech demonstrator tells Japan what it needs to know to build its own proper 5th gen fighter.

Or, Japan just builds 5 of them and has them combine into a robot... it's cool either way...

[wmkjr]

I was waiting for the transformation sequence. At least it got the YF-21 type exhaust paddles.

[electric indigo]

It looks like a Raptor raped a Kawasaki T-4...

[spanner]

It looks like a Raptor raped a Kawasaki T-4...

so what is it actually meant to be?? stealth looks or just coincidence.. yes it does have certain similarities of the 22 and whatever.. and with keeping the landing gear down for early test flights but do they usually keep the burner lit up for that long? If they go too fast wouldn't it damage the gear??

[spanner]

ok so it is a stealth fighter but aren't japan buying the F-35 anyways? or is this thing meant to be the F-15 replacement? also they claim a very high supercruise figure of mach 1.82 which is pretty much identical to the Raptor and higher than the T-50..

Has a very large area cockpit which doesn't help stealth.. will be interesting to see what the final production specs of this plane will be.

[raptormesh]

This is just a tech demonstrator for testing mainly three things:

1) The vector thrust flight dynamics

2) Indigenous stealth skin and geometry development

3) Their networks and interoperability with ground and naval forces on a stealth platform.

Keeping the gear down for the first test flight is very normal, and no it's not going fast enough to damage them. If it ever goes into production it will look quite different I'd imagine.

[sketchley]

ok so it is a stealth fighter but aren't japan buying the F-35 anyways? or is this thing meant to be the F-15 replacement? also they claim a very high supercruise figure of mach 1.82 which is pretty much identical to the Raptor and higher than the T-50..

Has a very large area cockpit which doesn't help stealth.. will be interesting to see what the final production specs of this plane will be.

My impressions are that it is intended to be a stealthy F-15 replacement. As they couldn't buy the F-22, a lot of the features of that fighter are emulated in the X-2 'Shinshin'.

[spanner]

My impressions are that it is intended to be a stealthy F-15 replacement. As they couldn't buy the F-22, a lot of the features of that fighter are emulated in the X-2 'Shinshin'.

yeah I figured so much.. but if they already buying the F-35, then wouldn't the Silent Eagle be sufficient and cheaper for them to acquire than spend a fortune developing their own stealth fighter? unless the F-15SE wouldn't cut it..

[SchizophrenicMC]

Japan doesn't like the F-15SE as much as they want an F-22 analogue. While the X-2 isn't necessarily much more than a proof of concept, it does demonstrate that it doesn't take the Japanese long to catch up. (Or much money- I've heard projections in the $350m range for this whole project, compared to billions spent just on development of the ATF in the 90s)

[sketchley]

yeah I figured so much.. but if they already buying the F-35, then wouldn't the Silent Eagle be sufficient and cheaper for them to acquire than spend a fortune developing their own stealth fighter? unless the F-15SE wouldn't cut it..

It all starts to make more sense if one considers that they prefer to be using domestic technology and manufacturers, rather than relying on foreign technology and manufacturers. That preference started with the rug being pulled out from under their feet with the F-22, when the US refused all overseas sales of it.

[grigolosi]

The newer landing gear can withstand quite a bit of speed. The overspeed limit on the F-16's gear is 200 kts indicated if I remember right. You definitely don't want the gear up and have a hydraulic failure on your first flight like that and the first flight is literally to see if the concept aircraft flies period and to get an initial idea of its stability in level flight.

I know Lockheed was planning on eventually making sales to overseas AF's with the F-22 but at the time the tech was considered too sensitive to give even to our closest allies at the time by our government. Ironic seeing how both Australia and Japan showed great interest in buying them. So instead the government said no you can't have these but you can have this F-35 if your willing to invest in it, I think the Aussies got the raw end of the deal on that one.

[raptormesh]

We could definitely use the Raptors, given the expanse of our airspace, though most of the threat is sorta northerly. We had to buy the 35s because we can't fly Rhinos forever.

[David Hingtgen]

Guess we know what's going to be on the cover of Ace Combat 7 now.

[electric indigo]

It all starts to make more sense if one considers that they prefer to be using domestic technology and manufacturers, rather than relying on foreign technology and manufacturers. That preference started with the rug being pulled out from under their feet with the F-22, when the US refused all overseas sales of it.

You'd also think they learned something from the F-2/FS-X program.

[grigolosi]

Just something to watch...they may be Mirage's but they are as graceful as they look....

https://www.facebook.com/borntoflypage/videos/1701609606722779/

[Shadow]

Just something to watch...they may be Mirage's but they are as graceful as they look....

https://www.facebook.com/borntoflypage/videos/1701609606722779/

Beautiful birds, especially the Mirage III and Kfir. It's a shame the Mirage 4000 was never given much of a chance given its capabilities from what I read.

[grigolosi]

If remember right alot of its ttech had an influence in the design of the Rafale. So in a way the 4000 lived on which is a very positive way to think about it.

[Shadow]

If remember right alot of its ttech had an influence in the design of the Rafale. So in a way the 4000 lived on which is a very positive way to think about it.

Indeed although they were designed with two different roles in mind. The Rafale being a multirole aircraft while the 4000 was a dedicated air superiority fighter. The only thing I do wish had also carried over were the more powerful SNECMA M53 engines.

[raptormesh]

IIRC the 4000 was a bid for the fighter contract from KSA, which fell through.

[grigolosi]

The Rafale doesn't doesn't need any bigger engines.....they are loud enough already....LOL. They fly a lot here where I work and the current engine's push that bird like its nothing. Between them, Strike Eagles, MIrages, Fighting Falcons and Raptors it is a a constant airshow here right now.

[NZEOD]

F-35s are nearly dead in the water now. The Development has turned into a monumental farce. The Per Unit costs have gone from USD68-75Mil to USD122Mil each and its not living up to its claims on fuel loads, range, weapon loads, Angle of Attack, or WVR dog fight performance.

Typhoon and Rafale are matching it and beating it in practically all realms and the New Russian Terminators can pick up stealthy fighters out to 90km away so the advantages of the F-35s design are already null and void. They come at a cost of fuel load and weapons load so its on the back foot.

The Typhoons Off Bore target lock system is a MASSIVE force multiplier now its been tested with the Meteor AAM and passed with flying colours along with the ASRAMM and the IRIS-T which can pull 60G turns to engage tailing fighters.

Canada is about to jump ship on their order for F-35s and are seeking a new option.

The VSTOL version has really hit the skids with untold safety issues.

Edited April 28, 2016 by NZEOD

[NZEOD]

Indeed although they were designed with two different roles in mind. The Rafale being a multirole aircraft while the 4000 was a dedicated air superiority fighter. The only thing I do wish had also carried over were the more powerful SNECMA M53 engines.

Bigger engines come at a cost... wing loading, fuel loads vs consumption, handling at subsonic speeds in WVR dogfights. Who ever can point the nose and so the weapons at the other guy the easiest wins. Bigger engines slow that down except in the case of the Russians who have some amazing Stalinium/Putiniun alloy magic built into their monsters that negates physics.

Having bigger engines makes a need for more fuel to keep the same range, conformal tanks are difficult to design without altering performance.

External tanks drastically alter performance and reduce Ordnance loads by taking up hardpoint space.

Pretty sure, given the wargames results the Rafale has been scoring against other Nato aircraft the French are happy with were its at.

Edited April 28, 2016 by NZEOD

[David Hingtgen]

The Typhoons Off Bore target lock system is a MASSIVE force multiplier now its been tested with the Meteor AAM and passed with flying colours along with the ASRAMM and the IRIS-T which can pull 60G turns to engage tailing fighters.

It seems strange but true, but the "Ace Combat effect" seems to work in real life:

Nowadays, it's not the airframe/engines, it's the avionics/weapons.

Give me an F-8 with AESA, ASRAAM, and Meteor, and I'll happily go up against a Gripen wielding AIM-9J's...

[spanner]

cool 3d printed GE engine. do yourselves a favor and skip to 40 seconds to avoid the garbage music.. why ppl feel it necessary to add music like this is beyond me.

[Shadow]

It seems strange but true, but the "Ace Combat effect" seems to work in real life:

Nowadays, it's not the airframe/engines, it's the avionics/weapons.

Give me an F-8 with AESA, ASRAAM, and Meteor, and I'll happily go up against a Gripen wielding AIM-9J's...

Or better yet, an F-14D with AIM-9X and AIM-120D capability. If you can configure the underside pylons to carry a pair AMRAAMs each, you have quite an arsenal then.

[Nazareno2012]

Or better yet, an F-14D with AIM-9X and AIM-120D capability. If you can configure the underside pylons to carry a pair AMRAAMs each, you have quite an arsenal then.

I once made a flight simulator addon of an upgraded F-14 (based on the Advanced Tomcat proposal that got passed over in favor of the Super Hornet) with Meteor missiles replacing AMRAAM and IRIS-T replacing Sidewinder. Meteor could be dual-packed as well, and an AESA radar would make it better. However, in real life Iran would be the only potential customer for such upgrade.

[Shadow]

Some outstanding photos taken of the 493rd Grim Reapers.

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/this-photo-tour-of-the-usafs-grim-reapers-f-15-squadr-1739746754?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=Foxtrot_Alpha_facebook

[mickyg]

cool 3d printed GE engine. do yourselves a favor and skip to 40 seconds to avoid the garbage music.. why ppl feel it necessary to add music like this is beyond me.

That is very cool! I wanted it to have working internal compressor parts and wasn't sure if it did or not, based on the video alone.

[NZEOD]

That is very cool! I wanted it to have working internal compressor parts and wasn't sure if it did or not, based on the video alone.

It wont have. An electric motor is in the space the compressor should be. Its working as an RC Ducted Fan style system

[David Hingtgen]

I want one mainly to have a working model of a cascade-style reverser.

[spanner]

yeah for sure love the reverser! and the thing pushes out a good amount of thrust too! would work perfect on an RC airliner! the guy could just 3d print the whole plane! hehe!

[spanner]

Some outstanding photos taken of the 493rd Grim Reapers.

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/this-photo-tour-of-the-usafs-grim-reapers-f-15-squadr-1739746754?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=Foxtrot_Alpha_facebook

fantastic photos! how friggin awesome is the F-15!

thanks for sharing the link Shadow!

[hutch]

I know a lot of folks are anti-F-35, and with some good reasons, but I got to tour the Ft. Worth factory today. Unbelievable place. Just an absolutely amazing manufacturing line.

[David Hingtgen]

I know a lot of folks are anti-F-35, and with some good reasons, but I got to tour the Ft. Worth factory today. Unbelievable place. Just an absolutely amazing manufacturing line.

Well yeah, it's where they make F-16's.