The Transformers Thread (licensed) Next

[Uxi]

I got one on the Lambor KO. Very impressed with the quality ... except for the arm that came off in first transformation. Don't think it's the seller's fault since it looks to me like a defect (stripped screw on one of the shoulders) but doesn't seem to want to do an exchange and is offering money back. I'm countering with what does a one-armed transformer do for me. Not sure how to fix that without a new shoulder piece.

[Gakken85]

I've heard they are pretty shoddy quality, even though some people are reporting they LOOK good.

[SuperSenpai]

Being a KO and probably not subject to the same QA as would be if sold Takara, I wouldn't be surprised if there were bad ones in a lot that didn't get weeded out. But so far mine handles great. I've checked a few reviews online, and overall the general consensus seems to be that the KO MP-12 is an excellent alternative if you don't mind a few minor cosmetic differences from the real thing. This review sums things up pretty nicely:

[Valkyrie2008]

Actually, the KO is on the Left and the Takara is on the right, but the guy in that video had it the other way. Takara have the darker headlights and the KO have the clear headlights.

[xrentonx]

I keep hearing the quality is pretty nice on the KOs. Being that they are a mass produced thing though, there are bound to be bad ones...surprise, just like Takara or Hasbro!

Got my Prowl and Streak and they are niiiiiiiiiice!

Edited November 10, 2013 by xrentonx

[Valkyrie2008]

It's not the same quality, I did a review on Red Alert a few pages back (page 73 of this tread). I'd say, you get what you pay for, if you think the KO is great, then go for it.

As Soundwave would say; KO inferior, Takara is Superior!

Congrats xrentonx!

I seem to like MP Bluestreak more thank MP Prowl, I think it's because MP Prowl is too plain.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Valkyrie2008

[xrentonx]

Eh...and other reviews are saying different. So who to believe? In any case, I don't buy KOs because I believe that I should support the people who bought the licensing.

That said, the KOs are really nice quality from the reviews I've seen. They do some things better than the official ones and vice versa.

I do have one complaint about Prowl and Streak...the way the arms transform feel a little flimsy to me (around the ball-joint area).

Edited November 10, 2013 by xrentonx

[Valkyrie2008]

Yeah you do have to be extra carefull on that plastic piece that holds the arms. My Streak is super tight and on my Prowl is nice and loose, but not too loose. I do wish they use die-cast for that piece.

Edit: I didn't want to support KO either, but I have to know the different between KO and the Original, that's why I bought one.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Valkyrie2008

[xrentonx]

Yeah, it took me a while to line them back up correctly so that the wheel would spin without touching the wheel well (the ball joint gives that area a little play so it can be fiddly). I really like Prowl's head sculpt better but Streak's scheme is just awesome

Edited November 10, 2013 by xrentonx

[Golden Arms]

KO is the term that keeps getting tossed around, but I don't think these are true knock offs. I think quality control rejects is a more apt description.

[Gakken85]

Then why are some parts totally fabricated differently?

I think the mold was stolen.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

so is there any place to get it for 40 shipped?

[Uxi]

Then why are some parts totally fabricated differently?

I think the mold was stolen.

It does make me really wonder why they wouldn't go all the way (Cantach instead of Countach, etc) but way too good to be what we normally called knock offs (Joons, etc). The quality of the instructions and box are way too good, as well.

[xrentonx]

It's scary how good they are for sure. We don't have flying cars yet but surely we live in the future times!

[skullmilitia]

People have a hard enough time driving in a straight line on the ground.

I for one am happy that flying cars are not yet available for crashing down from above.

KO grimlock is coming next month.

60$

[jenius]

KO grimlock is coming next month.

60$

Are you serious? I can tolerate KOs in some circumstances but the recent spat of KOs during times of actual release/rereleases seems very bad to me.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

i'm not sure about this KO w/ grimlock timing stuff... i don't know what's going on.

i haven't found news that takara is releasing sideswipe again and i dont know what changes hasbro is going to do so i went ahead and brought a sideswipe KO for 31.50. shipped. i did a best offer on an ebay one and it was accepted.

Edited November 11, 2013 by davidwhangchoi

[RD Blade]

Sideswipe is getting a re-release in December, according to BBTS's preorder page. A $60 Grimlock KO is just what's needed after all the pricing abuse the mold has seen lately.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

oh i see it! thanks

http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=TAK11736&mode=retail

if i'd had known i would've waited and ordered a legit one from hlj ot hs, wow BBTS is selling it for 80 that's steep

i'll probably go ahead an order a takara once as well, once it comes out to support them

Edited November 11, 2013 by davidwhangchoi

[skullmilitia]

It's a result of the partnership of Hasbro and Hasbro Asia.

Which I've found is a group of investors. Probably using factories that

They know keep running after initial order amounts.

One if the Chinese sellers of the KO says the Grimlock Mold is literally a bootleg.

Meaning it's not even reverse engineered like the Lambor mold.

It's a straight midnight runner.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

so is there any place to get it for 40 shipped?

Sideswipe is getting a re-release in December, according to BBTS's preorder page. A $60 Grimlock KO is just what's needed after all the pricing abuse the mold has seen lately.

btw, thanks RD Blade for taking the time over pm and helping me find one:)

Edited November 11, 2013 by davidwhangchoi

[Gakken85]

The demand is there, but it's going to kill the line. Nobody is going to want to collect special pieces if they are just going to be bootlegged.

Imagine if somebody was KO'ing Arcadia's VF-19... how many people would just wait for the KO and save money? If it's not special there is no point in going through proper channels.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Gakken85

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

i hope it doesn't kill the line but the outrageous pre-order prices on BBTS, i can understand prices going up in value after it goes out of print in a year or so. but i can't accept initial inflated pricing. i'm not willing pay more than 40-50... 80 bucks is stupid for a pre -order... i'm glad when TRU issued soundwave with all the tapes, it dropped takara's re-releases to a decent price on bbts.

but if sidewipe comes out again in HLJ i'm definitely picking him up to go with prowl, streak and smoke.

Edited November 11, 2013 by davidwhangchoi

[Scyla]

Does anyone has some info on the MP G2 Sideswipe?

I have following questions:

Will the spiky wheel things on the shoulders be removable?

Does it come with stickers? On the pictures the G2 Autobot symbol seems to be a sticker. Also it seems to have an alternative deco with G1 symbol and neon green highlights.

Has G2 Sideswipe a sword as accessory?

[SuperSenpai]

The demand is there, but it's going to kill the line. Nobody is going to want to collect special pieces if they are just going to be bootlegged.

Imagine if somebody was KO'ing Arcadia's VF-19... how many people would just wait for the KO and save money? If it's not special there is no point in going through proper channels.

I disagree. Dedicated collectors will always come up with the cash to buy what they want, and will pay a premium for the real thing over a bootleg. And within that group there's probably a small subgroup who will buy genuine articles AND the bootlegs because they want to support Hasbro/Takara, but can't resist having the bootleg because of the collector-mentality, or because they are just curious. Just in this thread alone we have a few folks who have purchased both KO and real MPs.

If anything, it's the casual collectors who are more likely to buy the KOs instead of the real thing, and chances are a good portion of those casual collectors are people who would never have shelled out the bucks for a real MP anyway. You see the same thing going on with KO merchandise of other goods, like designer shoes or clothing. The people buying the fake Prada handbags are not wealthy people looking for a great deal -- it's people with less income who can't or won't ever buy the real thing, but are happy to pay a lot less for a reasonable facsimile.

The Macross market is a lot smaller and more niche, so in theory KOs could do more damage by stealing sales from legit products. However, I'd argue that for the same reasons, Macross collectors tend to be more dedicated to begin with, and are more likely to want to the real thing rather than a KO.

Edited November 11, 2013 by SuperSenpai

[Gakken85]

The problem I see is the casuals. If the line doesn't grow and do legit sales they are less likely to spend the money on developing new molds. Casuals may not buy every release or repaint but if they aren't buying anything and going with cheap knockoffs, the market won't grow and the line will be seen as a failure.

I see your point, but toys in general are a niche market, unlike handbags and clothes. Most rich people buy expensive clothes, it's something you need, more or less.

Toys are just luxury goods for a very small set, and transforming toys are an even smaller set of that chunk.

It's bad news in my opinion.

Bottom line is the KO'ers aren't going to make new molds or design anything, so if you support them eventually their won't be new products.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Gakken85

[mikeszekely]

Bottom line is the KO'ers aren't going to make new molds or design anything, so if you support them eventually their won't be new products.

I know, right? Just like bootlegs have killed designer brands and Rolex watches.

...oh, wait, they haven't. In fact, people still prefer the genuine articles and the prestige that comes with them. KOs exist because people simply aren't always willing to pay a premium price.

You can argue that clothes are different if you want, but I disagree. Clothes are a necessity, designer labels aren't. They're a status symbol, just like you want MP toys to be.

Takara MPs have gotten expensive. Sure, inflation's part of it, but I remember importing MP Megatron for around $100, now $200+ has becoem the norm for smaller (MP-10 sized) toys, and Deluxe-sized MPs (and Alternity) are pushing $100. The Asia reissues are even worse. I know you've advocated for even more expensive Transformers, but the reality is that there's a market for quality KOs many people think they're already too expensive. Per your own argument, the problem is the casuals. If Takara would stop trying to fleece a niche market and produce larger runs at lower prices in the first place, there wouldn't be nearly as much demand for KOs.

[myk]

I know, right? Just like bootlegs have killed designer brands and Rolex watches.

...oh, wait, they haven't. In fact, people still prefer the genuine articles and the prestige that comes with them. KOs exist because people simply aren't always willing to pay a premium price.

You can argue that clothes are different if you want, but I disagree. Clothes are a necessity, designer labels aren't. They're a status symbol, just like you want MP toys to be.

Takara MPs have gotten expensive. Sure, inflation's part of it, but I remember importing MP Megatron for around $100, now $200+ has becoem the norm for smaller (MP-10 sized) toys, and Deluxe-sized MPs (and Alternity) are pushing $100. The Asia reissues are even worse. I know you've advocated for even more expensive Transformers, but the reality is that there's a market for quality KOs many people think they're already too expensive. Per your own argument, the problem is the casuals. If Takara would stop trying to fleece a niche market and produce larger runs at lower prices in the first place, there wouldn't be nearly as much demand for KOs.

That's it right there. Being a "casual" buyer I'm not going to pay a premium for the top-shelf Takara label when I can have an arguably better toy for less than half of the price; the people squinting at my collection won't know the difference anyway. I don't like T-formers enough to care about brand loyalty or even if they continue past what Takara's already produced for the MP or any line; if production were to stop because of the KO's then I'll just walk away not caring any less.

Now, to order one of those KO Lambor's...

[SuperSenpai]

Just to clarify --

I'm not necessarily advocating that one purchase KO product in lieu of genuine articles as a matter of habit. Count me as one of the individuals who purchased a KO MP-12 more out of curiosity/novelty -- I kept hearing from various sources that it was amazing how close it was to the real thing, so I wanted to see for myself. My KO MP-12 is the only KO I have, and my past TF were all legit Hasbro or Takara releases. Quality, cost, and similarity to the real product aside, there is an obvious legal and ethical component to whether you choose to purchase KOs, but far be it from me to tell anyone how they spend their money.

The argument that bootlegged products will destroy the market for the real thing is an old one, and has never really proven to be true. People worried that illegal filesharing would destroy the market for legally downloadable content. Tell that to iTunes and Netflix. Companies in China have been churning out fake designer label products for years, and it doesn't seem to have harmed the market for the real items. I would argue that some third party TFs are practically KOs given their obvious aping of certain designs, and yet this doesn't seemed to have harmed the market for genuine Takara or Hasbro product.

[Gakken85]

Those are different markets. Knockoff bags, rolexes and clothes exist because so many people want the status and can't afford them. And yes, designer clothes are not a need, but people with money have to wear clothes and often they like to spend more. Comparing it to the file sharing revolution isn't really accurate either. That would be if people started using 3D printers to make their own MP's and cut the manufactureres out of the loop completely. In this case there is still a manufacturer, it just isn't an official one that pays designers.

And yeah, Itunes is fine, but a lot of record companies went out of business in the process, and the entire market shrank. Toy companies already go out of business by putting money in the wrong projects. CM, Yamato, ect. It's a very fine line. Hell, Takara was already bought out once. You think bootlegs won't upset these fragile balances?

The market for transforming toys isn't that large I'm afraid, and is a slightly different beast than established luxury goods.

[Uxi]

Designer clothes seems pretty analogous to designer toys. Takara is filling a niche and their sold out runs seem to be working, though changing up their model to cheaper smaller models from bigger/expensive is interesting to watch. In almost all cases, most of the KO buyers were never going to buy the original. I was never going to buy Lambor at it's original prices. I'm considering one of the second runs, mostly because I want to compare against the KO. Which as I noted I'm suspicious of. I almost suspect even if it's not Takara winking at it and taking a bit of a toll on the DL, it's the factory itself doing it on their own time (sort of like the cigar companies do) or something like that. It's just too good for me to believe Takara wouldn't get redress through their legit factory if they really wanted it suppressed.

Files/music was entirely different and predicated on an anachronistic distribution model (the record companies were never needed to create music - just like other art through history, it was usually sponsored by patronage - and increasingly less relevant for distribution).

[skullmilitia]

KO's are always crap, sometimes it just takes awhile for the materials to break down.

I'd never buy a KO of an MP, because I'm buying it for the quality.

If someone KO'd the new YF-19? I wouldn't touch it with a V1 Yammy!

Now that there is a second run of MP-12 ( which still hasn't shown up on Japanese sites, which if it doesn't within the week

Might be just a KO being sold as authentic by HA or the Distributors for TFS and BBTS)

I'd gladly buy the authentic at 52$, then a KO at 37$

[SuperSenpai]

Based on my handling and in comparison with other MP TFs I own, I would not be surprised to learn that the KO MP-12 is most likely made at the same factory as the original, using the same molds, possibly rejects for various minor QC purposes, or were done as off-the-books runs. It's that good. The price difference is all due to the licensing and development costs which Takara had to bear and the KO sellers are taking advantage of this. I'd imagine that Takara had to pay a pretty penny to acquire the Lamborghini license, considering that new MP-12s were selling at retail for a lot more than the Prowl/Streak/Smokescreen molds, which are comparable in size, materials, and engineering. Designing and licensing these toys is expensive, but manufacturing them is dirt cheap. This is why the KO makers can sell basically the same toy for a fraction of the price.

Edited November 12, 2013 by SuperSenpai

[David Hingtgen]

Yes yes---but then why are official MP-11 and MP-08 releases twice the price they originally were? Inflation hasn't caused prices to double in just a couple years. If anything, they should be cheaper, as the molds and development have already been paid for.

Even I'm thinking of getting the KO MP-08. Yeesh, it'd be like if Chevy re-released the 2011 Impala, but now charged twice as much. "Hey, look, it's an old design! And now it costs way more!"

[skullmilitia]

Actually, here's the breakdown on the car prices:

MP-12, 14 and 12T were 52$ USD retail

(Each had 2 accessories)

MP-17 and 18 were 48$

( each has one accessory )

MP-19 is 52$ USD retail

( has three accessories )

The only price difference is the number of accessories.