The Transformers Thread (licensed) Next

[jenius]

My first Transformers review is up on anymoon. Check it out and give me some feedback!

[treatment]

the green makes it a pita to take a snap at...

[Gakken85]

Great review as always Jenius. Good job hunting all those down for a decent price.

I did a comparison review of AE MP-08 and TRU H MP-08 if anybody is interested

[anime52k8]

maybe I'm the only one, but I would have been even more in to acid storm if it had Rainbow dash's cutie mark:

http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-masterpiece-47/alternate-mp-acid-storm-design-from-boss-fight-studios-at-njcc-178252/

[Gakken85]

You're the only one.

[Uxi]

Pretty good review... but you should have had the Grimlocks in dinosaur/alt mode to show the differences more. And I think you're absolutely crazy to say Hasbro should be charging more, of course.

[skullmilitia]

Acid Storms color looks so much better in person.

[Gakken85]

I plan on doing a follow-up grimlock review, with more dino! haha.

The point I'm trying to make is about collecting. Takara makes a real collectable at a reasonable, yet serious price. Hasbro then takes that collectible, makes a larger run and cuts the price.

This does a few things:

1. More QA issues with more units

2. Shortcuts in packaging and production

3. Easier hoarding, scalping, and gouging.

A few savy collectors got Grimlock for $65 bucks back in the day. But at that price people could buy 5 or six and just sit on them. Not to mention TRU has crappy distribution. I mean you could argue that TRU's model gets the same toy into the hands of more fans at a cheaper price... but I don't think that's really true. Everybody buys 2 or 3 at that price, and when stock runs out you can charge 2.5 times the price. Personally, I think TRU should change their model and cater to collectors. Better QA, better packaging, and just charge a bit more out of the gate.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. It could change. haha.

[David Hingtgen]

maybe I'm the only one, but I would have been even more in to acid storm if it had Rainbow dash's cutie mark:

http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-masterpiece-47/alternate-mp-acid-storm-design-from-boss-fight-studios-at-njcc-178252/

The symbol works surprisingly well----how many would have noticed/known the original source? Anyways, I think the most interesting thing there, is that we now know that "Decepticon purple" is officially 266C.

[mikeszekely]

I plan on doing a follow-up grimlock review, with more dino! haha.

The point I'm trying to make is about collecting. Takara makes a real collectable at a reasonable, yet serious price. Hasbro then takes that collectible, makes a larger run and cuts the price.

This does a few things:

1. More QA issues with more units

2. Shortcuts in packaging and production

3. Easier hoarding, scalping, and gouging.

A few savy collectors got Grimlock for $65 bucks back in the day. But at that price people could buy 5 or six and just sit on them. Not to mention TRU has crappy distribution. I mean you could argue that TRU's model gets the same toy into the hands of more fans at a cheaper price... but I don't think that's really true. Everybody buys 2 or 3 at that price, and when stock runs out you can charge 2.5 times the price. Personally, I think TRU should change their model and cater to collectors. Better QA, better packaging, and just charge a bit more out of the gate.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. It could change. haha.

So your solution to scalping is to cut out the middle man and just have Hasbro charge us more?

I mean, in general it's not fair to compare prices in the States to prices in Japan. A variety of factors usually lead to things like toys being more expensive in Japan before you even factor in the costs of importing. And you may be right about Takara catering to more of a collector's market than Hasbro, but they're not doing anyone any favors by doing so, they're just taking advantage of adult collectors. Looking at threads for Takara releases of MP-10, MP-12, and MP-13 show plenty of people with QC problems, so there goes the theory that smaller runs improves quality. And, believe it or not, not everyone is willing to pay $200+ for a toy, collectible or not. I know I wouldn't; it's why the only Takara toy I've imported was MP-05 (and I paid around $100 for him). If Hasbro did more limited runs and charged more, I can honestly say the only Hasbro MP I'd have bought was Prime.

And I don't think your solution would really reduce scalping at any rate. A more limited run means reducing supply and increasing demand among collectors who are willing to pay more. So the people like me who were willing to pay around $100 are even less likely to find one in stores and wouldn't pay what the stores are asking even if he did, and the scalpers who do find them are now charging $300-$400. All for, what, a better box to stuff in my closet? (What was wrong with Hasbro's MP-13 packaging anyway?) If you really want to defeat scalpers, you need an even bigger run... as many people as possible need to be able to buy one in stores. I noticed that when TRU started restocking Soundwave eBay prices dropped from around $250-$300 to $150-$180.

For the record, I don't think the Takara version of Grimlock's sharper teeth and claws were ever on the table for a US release. Even if Hasbro jacked up the price and called it an adult collectible, I don't think they'd be able to skirt US toy safety regulations.

[Gakken85]

If you market them for kids they can't. And that's Hasbro's problem.

If you market something for adults the same safety regulations don't apply. And that's my point. Hasbro doesn't take the line seriously and it shows.

Not everybody stuffs the boxes in the closet, and packaging is part of collecting. it matters.

We don't have definitive numbers so the theory is just fine. There are always QA problems, but it's just logical that the more you make the more you'll have. There were also a lot of KO's mixed in with the smaller Takara releases, so obviously those don't count in the overall picture. Both of my Lambo's are free of issues, but that is just one persons experience. You can't pull much from what you do or do not see.

Obviously prices will rise and fall based on demand, that still doesn't mean everybody who wants one is going to get one at that price. What you see on Ebay isn't the whole story either. Plenty of people don't use ebay and will still pay $200 on Craigslist, or through local stores who are actually paying people to scalp multiples. My bottom line is that most people aren't savvy consumers.

Say they release 10,000. Then 2,000 people actually got it at a cheap price (and all those people bought 2.) That leave 6,000 that are marked up or running around the second hand market. And that's a lot of money Hasbro didn't make and won't put into the next release. It just hurts everybody in the long run to pay less.

And yes, I would rather pay the manufacture more and get a better product, than create an insurance plan for scalpers. It ensures a better and longer line in the future. I'm not saying all releases should be $200 dollars, but $65-100 dollars is just not a smart price. You're ensuring that it will be insanity. Some people will bitch and say they can't afford a higher price, but they'll buy it anyway.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Gakken85

[Uxi]

I don't think they are "marketing" them. Advertising is next to nil. Packaging has got to be the cheapest part. The molds are already done. I simply wouldn't have (m)any if they were $200 each.

Don't get me wrong, TRU has distribution issues... and I'm sure they want anything but to clearance these as many have (most notably Thundercracker). I wish they could get these on shelves so more kids COULD have a chance at them which would make them more likely to produce larger runs, etc. To cater to collectors, is a great idea for a more exclusive line. To weed out scalpers, they should be going direct with mechanisms to limit purchase to one card, address, user, IP address, etc etc. They could also then go with fancy packaging, etc like you say so we wouldn't have to stake out TRU and usually come up empty.

On that note, shouldn't Wal-Mart be due another? They haven't had one since Skywarp, no?

Edited August 22, 2013 by Uxi

[Gakken85]

They should go through Amazon.. and stop using TRU and Wal-mart.

But yeah, I don't think these should be for kids. There are plenty of $15 dollar transformers for cheap-os.

It's just stupid to charge $120 bucks when a 3rd party six shot that doesn't even really transform into anything.. costs $130. haha.

[Uxi]

That's economies of scale, though and the cost of third parties reflects their smaller sizes and relatively much much smaller runs. Hasbro would lose sales and put even more items on clearance (or more likely mean they simply wouldn't get produced) if the price points were much higher.

[mikeszekely]

They should go through Amazon.. and stop using TRU and Wal-mart.

But yeah, I don't think these should be for kids. There are plenty of $15 dollar transformers for cheap-os.

It's just stupid to charge $120 bucks when a 3rd party six shot that doesn't even really transform into anything.. costs $130. haha.

No, it's stupid to charge more than $120 just to create the illusion that it's somehow better/more collectible/more exclusive than it is.

[Gakken85]

That's economies of scale, though and the cost of third parties reflects their smaller sizes and relatively much much smaller runs. Hasbro would lose sales and put even more items on clearance (or more likely mean they simply wouldn't get produced) if the price points were much higher.

I don't see any evidence of that with the MP line. Anywhere or ever, haha. Takara's runs always sell out.

I think people are just cheap and will complain about any price increase.

It's not an illusion if you actually make it better, more collectible, and more exclusive... that's the point I've been trying to make.

Transformers are unique because the fan base is so massive in the states, but that's like saying Arcadia are stupid for adding a stand, better box art, and charging $20-30 bucks more for a VF-1.

Anyway, this is pretty boss:

Exclusive Grimmy T-shirt and Apron that fits him.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Gakken85

[treatment]

Only a dumbass will believe that a toy is in any way "better" if that toy is "exclusive" and "more collectible" due to the manufacturer directly artificially limiting production-runs to cause pricing inflation.

[Uxi]

I wouldn't put it like that, but I'm curious what makes anyone think Hasbro would spend more on production just because they were spending more on a lower production run.

I dig the shirt. For $100 or so I really wish I could have gotten this release without the shirt. Maybe even $150 for the combo. I'd pass on the apron though or leave it in the box if it was included.

[jenius]

What's the deal with the shirt apron? Do we know if Grimlock is getting a larger Asian release yet?

[Dangard Ace]

He wears an apron in the episode he builds Computron. Don't ask.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

Do we know if Grimlock is getting a larger Asian release yet?

i would like one too

[Gakken85]

Takara comes with an apron, this is a special version: http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Grimlock%27s_New_Brain

As for a larger Asian release... Taobao sellers and Lunar's sources are calling it a final run and that the mold is locked up.

He still has some limited MP-10s for preorder:

http://www.lunartoystore.com/products/asia-exclusive-mp-10-optimus-prime-pre-order

Sold out everywhere else that I know of, as they are making fewer of these than the grimlock.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Gakken85

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

Takara comes with an apron, this is a special version: http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Grimlock%27s_New_Brain

As for a larger Asian release... Taobao sellers and Lunar's sources are calling it a final run and that the mold is locked up.

He still has some limited MP-10s for preorder:

http://www.lunartoystore.com/products/asia-exclusive-mp-10-optimus-prime-pre-order

Sold out everywhere else that I know of, as they are making fewer of these than the grimlock.

not worried about mp 10 as takaras ver is being restocked. just seeing about mp-08

[jenius]

Rule of thumb... never trust vendors who have stock to sell when they tell you it won't be available...

[Gakken85]

Yeah that's the MP-10 restock... it's a limited release of the Takara with a stand. Most vendors had to pull back their stock as it's a smaller run than grimmy.

I trust Lunar, otherwise I wouldn't post it here. I talk to him every day about collecting and he's a really cool guy. I might go help him out at NYCC this fall. Everything he's said has been true so far and his prices are the best around. But even if it was a normal Takara re-issue it would be the same price. You won't get one for less than $240 shipped even if they did re-issue it.

I know Cmm gave up on getting more:

He's also predicting MP-17 through 19 will have a price flux at release of about $10 bucks.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Gakken85

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

mp -10 is not that rare, don't really care for a stand.

the takaras are coming back in stock (edit: version without the stand) looks like the TF source has a stand.

http://tfsource.com/masterpiece/mp-10-optimus-prime/

prices are about the same. but you're right that you won't find it under 240.

i'm just saying mp10 asia low print claim doesn't mean much to me bc the takara version is avail.

Edited August 22, 2013 by davidwhangchoi

[Gakken85]

That's the special edition with the stand. So far as we know the boxes are the same.

You can see the stand in the photos and :

Note: This is the second edition of MP-10 and this version will include a figure display stand as shown. First editions do not include this stand.

There won't be a release without the stand, and there won't be a lot. I can't find any listings for a normal re-issue or restock. No news on that.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Gakken85

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

yeah corrected myself while you posted. i saw that but still saying it's not that rare. the mp-08 went out in a minute. these are still up...

[Gakken85]

Well just because it doesn't sell out fast doesn't mean it's not a small run. Lots of people have versions of prime already. And it's $300 bucks off the bat.

The Mp-08 sold faster because of the box and people are just nuts for Grimlock! haha.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Gakken85

[Benson13]

I've got to get my hands on a MP Prime at some point and a Rodimus too.

Where would you guys recommend finding those?

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

i wouldn't have known about Luna until Gakken linked it here from the tfw2005 forums.

looks like a solid place to get mp10 or TFsource.

for MP-09 you may have to hunt a bit but shoudn't be too hard to find.

treasure island has it for about 239 on the newegg market place

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA05101A8803

Edited August 22, 2013 by davidwhangchoi

[jenius]

Hmmm, i wonder if this means Grimmy is going to be getting a new masterpiece mold... He's obviously popular.

[Gakken85]

It's possible, But I don't know what they'd improve on the mold. Maybe remove some of the gimmicks and diecast, for some articulation. Maybe more articulation in the fingers... but that's pretty minor. Maybe a bit more play in the feet but you can get a zillion poses out of him without shifting ankles because of the wide feet. It's such a faithful representation of the G1 and already in scale, as he's a bit taller than Prime/MP-10, I doubt it would be high on their list. When it's not a real life or realistic alt mode you can do whatever you want.

But it's all speculation.

I really wish they'd get to doing the rest of the Dinobots. Swoop is a big wish for me.

We know next year will have:

G2 Lambor

Bumblebee

Wheeljack

I'm betting Galvatron will be released as a "big" MP and the next destron.

I'm also betting we'll see a Mirage and Jazz next year, and likely a Star Saber if he wins the 30th. (Which after Wheeljack will be the most exciting release for me! haha)

That will take us well into the middle of next year I reckon.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Gakken85

[Gakken85]

I've got to get my hands on a MP Prime at some point and a Rodimus too.

Where would you guys recommend finding those?

I'd read up on Rodimus. I Know the Takara release had some issues and it's a pretty difficult transformation. It's one of the few where the Hasbro version is superior in terms of quality and the arms were retooled. You can get the Hasbro release for like $130 bucks or so too.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Masterpiece-Hasbro-Rodimus-Prime-Hot-Rod-Near-Mint-/290964002807?pt=US_Action_Figures&hash=item43bece57f7

I had one in the box and sold it because I never cared for him as a character and most of the pre-10 releases are spotty.

I'd look for one on auction on ebay with a late night time.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Gakken85

[Gakken85]

Got some new lights today and I've been playing around: