The Transformers Thread (licensed) Next

[M'Kyuun]

5 minutes ago, JB0 said:

It also apparently makes the plastic prone to fracturing, and in a way that leaves sharp edges.

Since these are nominally children's toys, and kids these days are big babies I never choked to death on a plastic rocket or put my eye out with a broken wing...

I wasn't aware of its effects on plastic. I don't recall having those issues personally, but apparently some have.

We of the pre-internet days seem to have been made of sterner stuff.  

[mikeszekely]

I need to find some Autobots (and Piranacon and Predaking, too, I suppose).  And to dust that shelf.😔

[Wolf-1]

I thought he was Menasor, not Minisor.  Nice collection and appreciate the trip down memory lane. 

[mikeszekely]

26 minutes ago, Wolf-1 said:

I thought he was Menasor, not Minisor.  Nice collection and appreciate the trip down memory lane. 

Hey, he's about the same size as Devastator, and only a little shorter than Bruticus or Abominus.

But yeah, it's funny how as adults we're demanding 20" tall combiners to scale with MP-10/44 according to the Sunbow chart.  Meanwhile, back in the day our Scramble City combiners were actually shorter than Galvatron and Ultra Magnus.

[mikeszekely]

So, a few weeks ago I was able to add to my collection of Optimus Primes, and I want to talk about something different today.  Let's go back in time a bit, to the late 2000s, and take a look at Alternity Convoy and Alternators Optimus Prime.

A big part of both lines is that instead of figuring out how to get a mostly Sunbow-looking robot to turn into a close-enough approximation of the hastily-drawn animation model representing the car that the original Diaclone toys that became Transformers, these are toys that are designed to be accurate replicas of real vehicles that are then worked into robots.  As such, I'm going backward from my usual format and staring in alt mode.  At a glance, Alternity Convoy seems much nicer than Alternators Prime.  The Alternators toy is entirely plastic, and all the red parts are cast in red and unpainted.  Meanwhile, all the red you see on the Alternity figure is is painted, and he's got a nice heft due to copious use of diecast.  That might not be an entirely fair comparison, though, as the Alternity line was exclusive to Japan, and I'm pretty sure that Binaltech (the Japanese version of Alternators) used more paint and diecast than the global Alternators releases.  So really, the big difference between the lines seems to be that Alternators/Binaltech used a 1:24 scale for cars, while Alternity was shrunk down to 1:32.  Now, I'm not up on model or diecast car collecting, but I know that 1:24 is very popular in the States but 1:32 isn't exactly uncommon here and is pretty popular in other parts of the world- I know Jada Toys makes diecast cars in both sizes.  I have a few of their 1:32 Batmobiles and a 1:32 KITT, but I also know that every one of them was available in 1:24 at some point.  I have no idea why Takara opted to switch scales, though.

Alright, let's take a closer look, first at Alternators Prime.  As we can see from the logo printed on his tailgate and doors he's a Dodge Ram SRT-10 pickup truck (I'm not knowledgeable on any tweaks between model years, but the SRT-10 was on produced from 2004-2006 and the figure came out in 2006).  The "10" part comes from the fact that the truck used the same V10 engine as the third-generation Viper, a feature further advertised by the Viper badges tampoed on the sides of the hood scoop.  Those badges, along with the Ram badge on the nose above the grill, the "Ram SRT-10" on the doors, and the "Dodge" and "SRT-10" marks on the tailgate are all present on the actual vehicle.  The figure also features black paint for the side mirrors, door and tailgate handles and grills, silver paint on the grill, and translucent plastic for accurate headlights, fog lights, and taillights.  Even the rims are accurate, although the rubber tires on them are a fictional "Cybertronian Radial."  The only thing I can really find that it's missing is the turn signal repeater lights, which should be on the front fenders just in front of the Ram logos on the doors.

Like you might expect from a non-transforming diecast car at this scale, the doors open and you can see seats, a steering wheel, and even the infotainment console molded inside.  The steering wheel can be turned, although I don't think they actually move the tires (but the tires are linked to each other and can be moved, so...).  A nice touch is that the door itself has an interior panel installed with realistic molded detail including the armrest/door handle, door pocket, and speakers.  The tailgate opens.  The hood (or bonnet for our friends across the pond) also opens to reveal a somewhat accurate engine, or at least the top of it (I think part of the intake and the oil reservoir, and you can even see a tiny oil cap molded onto it, but nothing actually below it). 

Although it can be a bit of a bear due to the fac that the hood doesn't open any wider than I have it pictured, that engine is actually removeable.  What's more, it transforms to form a little pistol that is the figures sole accessory.

All-in-all, it's a very detailed truck that even includes expected interior details.  Aside from a few seams there's little to give away the fact that this even transforms, I don't think it'd look too out-of-place in a collection with other 1:24 scale models or diecast cars.

Alternity Convoy turns into a Nissan GT-R (R35).  While there have been tweaks to the R35 over the 15 years it's been on the market this figure came out in 2009, and the R35 didn't get it's first facelift until the 2010.  Once again, we're treated to a very accurate replica with the GT-R badge on the front grill and the tail, the nissan badge on the tail, duct vents on the front fenders, the finishers above those vents, and translucent headlights, taillights, and repeaters in front of the front wheels and near the taillights on the sides.  Where Alternators Prime had shades of a California license plate painted on, the spot for the plate on the Alternity Convoy is left blank.

Note that, while I went for red because that's the color I expect Optimus to be, he was also available in silver.

I think it's a bit less common on 1:32 scale diecast cars, but Alternity Convoy's doors and hood/bonnet do open.  Once again, you'll find a steering wheel inside that turns, although this time the wheels do not move at all, detailed seats, center console, and glove box, shift lever, and interior door panels.  Under the hood/bonnet you'll find... well a frame of sorts.  Most of the actual engine and ductwork you'd find in a real GT-R is missing, but that hexagonal panel with the molded ductwork does resemble the intake manifold on the real car, so there's that.  It doesn't come out this time, and Alternity Convoy has no accessories.

The difference in the car scales affects the size of the robots, naturally.  I have them here with Earthrise (Netflix) Prime so you can see.  If you count to the tops of their heads, Alternators Prime was essentially the size of a larger Voyager figure, while Alternity Convoy is around the size of a tall Deluxe; much taller than WfC cars like Sideswipe or Prowl, but about the same height as Ironhide and still shorter than the shorter Voyagers like Starscream.

I'm not sure if it's a function of budget (I'm not sure how much Binaltech figures cost in Japan, but think Alternity figures ran a bit more despite their smaller size) or if toy engineering really improve that much in three years, but Alternators Optimus has a pretty straightforward transformation where, from the back and sides, he hardly looks transformed at all.  The doors open, but other than that they and the front fenders don't move.  Some of the bumper rotates to fill in the space above his shoulders, but most of the front end folds over to become his chest.  The seats fold down onto the backs of his arms, the rear window tucks up underneath the roof, and the bed of the truck stretches out with panels that fold out of the way of his knee joints, and that's kind of it.  Alternity Convoy has a more involved transformation, especially turning the rear of the car into his legs.  And, for better or for worse, he's also got something like the Automorph tech used in some of the original movie line figures, where moving some parts makes other parts transform automatically.  For what it's worth, I think that Alternity Convoy looks more visually interesting and like a properly transformed robot, although the backs of his legs are a bit messy and they both have their fair share of kibble.

Alternators Prime's articulation is pretty poor.  His head is on a ball joint, with limited up/down/sideways tilt.  His shoulders rotate, but they're a tad limited by the kibble around them.  Likewise, they can move laterally but at around 45 degrees the runners out the outsides of his arms get caught up in the fenders over his shoulders.  Due to the transformation hinges and the fact that they kind of float at his sides he does have some forward and backward butterfly joints, though.  He doesn't have any bicep swivel.  His elbows are double-jointed and do at least have some good range.  His wrists are ball joints so they can swivel and have some limited tilt, and his fingers are pinned at the base with his index finger separate from the others, so he can open his hand. He does have a waist swivel.  His hips move forward and backward about 60 degrees before being blocked by kibble, and a little under 90 degrees laterally.  His thighs swivel, and his knees bend 90 degrees.  The front of his feet are on ball joints, so he's got a little up/down tilt and 30-40 degrees of faux ankle pivot.

His engine pistol fits into hand by plugging a tiny peg on the handle into his palm.

Alternity Convoy's articulation is also a bit limited.  His head is also on a ball joint, with no real upward range but more downward and sideways tilt.  His shoulders rotate, and this time the door kibble rotates with them so he's got the full 360 degrees.  The actual shoulder moves laterally behind the door a little under 90 degrees.  This time he does have bicep swivels, but his elbows are a single hinge that bends 90 degrees.  His wrists are again ball joints, so they swivel and have some tilt, but he has no articulation in his fingers.  Gone, too, is the waist swivel.  His hips can move forward forward 90 degrees and backward a little under that on ratchets, and laterally around 60 degrees.  His thighs swivel just above his knees, which are ratcheted and bend 90 degrees.  The black part of his feet are on ball joints with a little upward tilt, 90 degrees downward, but very limited ankle pivots.

Although he doesn't have any accessories, twin cannons fold out of the seat backs on his forearms.

So here's the thing... I think, by almost any standard, the Alternity figure is the better toy (and I'm not just saying that because I'm a big fan of the R35 GT-R and have zero interest in pickup trucks).  It looks more transformed, and what it lost in elbow, hand and waist articulation it gained in more important areas like shoulders, biceps, and hips.  And yet, the Alternity line offered just four basic molds for thirteen characters before it fizzled out (technically, it was replaced by Transformers GT, but that was just four more retools of this very figure).  Meanwhile, while I didn't really collect from it (aside from Prime) I remember Alternators being fairly popular, and the numbers seem to back that up with thirteen molds delivering twenty-six characters.  Now, I know Optimus has a reputation for being one of the less-good Alternators, but still, what made the Alternators line popular, and why didn't Alternity catch on?  I'd love to hear your thoughts, especially if you were collecting either line, but here's my thoughts.

For starters, I think timing had a lot to do with it.  The Alternators line began in 2003.  Around that time there was a resurgence in interest in G1; RiD, which revived the concept of robots that turn into cars and what not after a few years of beasts, had just ended.  Dreamwave had recently launched their G1 comics, and G1 reissues were a thing at Toys R' Us.  For the first time in a long time we were getting new toys of the characters we'd loved as kids, and this was a year before MP-01, a year before Robot Masters, three years before Hybrid Style, and three years before before Titanium Series or Classics.  Alternity, meanwhile, didn't debut until 2009, after the MP line began, after Classics became Universe and was about to switch to Generations, and we had a lot more options to feed our nostalgia.

I think the change in scale might have been a factor.  While both scales seem to be readily available for diecast cars, I'd venture that 1:24 is or was more popular, at least in the States.  Which brings me to another factor-

Availability.  In the States, you could walk into a toy aisle in your local Walmart or Target (or Kmart, because we still had those then) and find Alternators.  You could see a 1:24 Dodge Viper on a shelf, realize that it turned into Sideswipe, and then take it home on a whim.  Alternity was exclusive to Japan.  You had to know you wanted it, and you had to want it badly enough to import it.  I'm not sure what the retail price was in Japan, but I seem to remember stores that were importing them here charging around $70-$80, more than double what Alternators figures ran here.

Finally, overuse of the Alternity molds.  Sure, almost every Alternators mold got re-used (I don't think Prowl, Skids, Rumble, or the Jaguar XK version of Ravage did), but (not counting the same character it multiple colors, i.e. Jazz in silver or red, or Tracks in blue or yellow) I don't think any mold was used for more than three characters.  Meanwhile, again not counting that Convoy came in both silver and red, this mold alone was used for Convoy, Black Convoy, Ultra Magnus, and Dai Atlas then retooled slightly in Transformers GT for another Convoy, Megatron, Star Saber, and Fortress Maximus.  Two of the other three molds were used for a minimum of three characters, and the fourth was only used for two but one of those two came in three different colors.

Anyway... while I'm more interesting in reminiscing about Alternators I always conclude my reviews with recommendations.  So, here we go... if you collect Optimus Primes (as I do), then it probably doesn't matter what I say.  But, in 2022 I'd probably recommend against Alternators Prime.  As I said, even at the time he had a reputation for not being one of the better figures in the line.  I don't think he holds up well to the Classics Optimus that released the same year, and by today's standards he feels positively dated without the same childhood nostalgia that at least the G1 toys give you.  Alternity Convoy is a tougher call.  He is a better robot, and the paint and diecast do give him more of a premium feel.  Plus, as noted, I'm a sucker for the GT-R.  That said, for all his improvements over Alternators Prime he's still lacking articulation by modern standards, and a lot of his value is more in the novelty of having a very accurate, detailed, licensed car mode.  He might be worth picking up if you can find him at a good price (I got an opened but complete boxed copy for $50, and that's probably about right), but once you start getting into MP car prices he's not really worth it when MP cars also have licensed real-world alt modes plus they're bigger, have more articulation, and cartoon-accurate robot modes.

[Scyla]

I’m a big fan of the Alternity line (I have all the molds and want to buy GT Saber and Galvatron if I can find them). 

To this day I feel that they are the most premium collector toys Takara Tomy has released. And they started a trend for me where I have to have a toy of every release of Nemesis Prime, Cliffjumper and Skywarp in my collection.

Sadly the toys are not without flaws. The areas where they use die cast are poorly chosen. Prime has a super heavy torso which makes him hard to pose. The knees, while ratcheted, are not up for the task.

The seeker mold has die cast doors for no reason that are attached to poorly toleranced (is that even a real word) ball joints so they always pop off during transformation.

Something they all have in common is that they have super spindly parts. Like the legs on Cliffjumper and Skywarp or the arms on Prime and Megatron. Plus the gigantic belly (CJ) and chests. 
It makes the look add and alien which fits to the bonkers Alternity backstory well. 

[Hikuro]

The alternators were pretty fun back then, honesty regret selling the majority of them.

[technoblue]

I do appreciate how these early releases influenced the lines of Transformers that came after them. That Alternity Prime has almost a primordial Bayverse feel in its bot mode design for instance. The limited articulation, though… I’m relieved that Hastak has moved away from this for the most part.

[M'Kyuun]

I still have quite a few of the Binaltech figs in storage; the heft of the die-cast and the lovely paint work definitely gave them a premium feel compared to their all-plastic Alternator clones.  I have a few Alternators, too, but I mostly tried to get the Japanese releases despite the much higher price tags. Alternators at one point were selling for about $20 here.  Considering the engineering and licensing, compared to a Generations voyager, it's amazing how quality vs price has shifted. Granted, I'm super happy that articulation has been a focus since the WfC line started- that's a good trend, and I hope they keep on improving. 

I have Alternators Prime, BTW, and yeah, he wasn't quite on par with some of the better molds, chief among them being the Ford Mustang, the Mazda RX-8, and the Suburu Impreza. Articulation was a weakness of many of those toys; the novelty of having a fully transformable licensed car with at least a partial interior, steerable front wheels (rubber even!), and opening hoods, trunks, and doors mitigated the disappointment at the weaker points of the bot modes, which were almost certainly secondary considerations. They're a neat part of TF toy history, though, and rarely get the honorable mention they deserve. To that end, thanks for putting the spotlight on them if only briefly, Mike.

[JB0]

True story: My first Transformer as a grown-up was Alternators Shockwave. I still really like most of the Alternators. Though some, like the Dodge Ram mold, were just kinda junky?

 

(Also, if I recall, the Ram was meant to be Ironhide before Takara went "But wouldn't Optimus sell better?")

[mikeszekely]

11 hours ago, technoblue said:

I’m relieved that Hastak has moved away from this for the most part.

More or less, yeah.  HasTak's Transfomers lines have evolved, and I think for the most part WfC/Legacy does a better job of offering (relatively) inexpensive figures with adequate articulation and solid playability while the MP line better captures the higher-end adult collectible market.  That said, as a niche product I do like the idea of realistic licensed vehicles that transform into robots.  I think Alternators/Binaltech was definitely a product of its time, but I think more paint and diecast alone wasn't really enough to evolve the idea as the main and MP lines started growing.  I wouldn't mind seeing the concept come back at some point, but with more emphasis on actually transforming the cars to make better robots with more acceptable levels of articulation and less in-your-face kibble.

17 hours ago, Scyla said:

I’m a big fan of the Alternity line (I have all the molds and want to buy GT Saber and Galvatron if I can find them).

Y'know, I don't have a ton of interest or shelf space for going back through the Alternators/Binaltech stuff, and I'm certainly not going to track down every repaint or even every character in the Alternity line, but with only four unique molds I could be persuaded to at least do that.  Heck, I'm actually halfway there already, because when I picked up Convoy I was able to grab and even less-expensive, still complete-in-box copy of Megatron to go with him.

Like I said yesterday, I love the R35 GT-R, but it's not a car that's realistically in my price range.  That said, Nissan's actually been my go-to for my automotive needs for awhile now.  My wife's currently driving a Rogue, but I put a deposit on an Ariya to replace it, and my daily driver is a Maxima.  I settled on the Maxima because the birth of my daughter necessitated a back seat.  If I hadn't made the decision to have a kid, though, there's a very good chance I'd have gone with the 370Z... which happens to be Megatron's alt mode.  And, just like I went with red for Convoy because I think Prime is supposed to be red, I went with silver for Megatron because I think he's supposed to be silver.  However, Megatron was also available in blue and black versions.

I mean, there's not a lot to say about the alt mode that isn't a repeat of what I said about Convoy- it's a very accurate, detailed 1:32 scale replica of the 6th-generation (Z34) Nissan 370 Z (or Fairlady Z, as it's known in Japan).  As with Convoy, the entire exterior of the car is painted, and he does indeed contain some diecast.  He's still go the sort of accurate details you'd expect, like the Nissan badges on the nose and rear, the intended space for the license plate, the dual exhaust, the Z-badges on the fenders, accurate rims, translucent headlights, etc.  The only knocks I might suggest are the painted brake light and rear fog lamp after getting the translucent repeaters on the GT-R mold, but I get why they did it given that the lights have to split for transformation.  Also, there's a bit of robot kibble that's peaking out from under the rear of the car.

And, as with Convoy, the doors and hood/bonnet open.  Inside the car you'll again find realistic interior details including seats, a steering wheel the at turns, center console and shifter lever, and glove box.  The inner door panels have some realistic detail by they're marred by a slider mechanism that'll come into play for robot mode.  Under the hood we'll find the same lack of pullies, belts, fluid containers, wiring, hoses, and ducts you'd see on a real car but you do have an accurate representation of the 370Z's engine cover.

Unlike Convoy Megatron has some accessories, namely this pair of swords.  The sword's have small pegs on them that allow them to be stored on the underside of the vehicle.

I have mixed feelings about Megatron's robot mode, which is similar in size to Convoy's.  I mean, G1 Prime and Megatron turned in a CoE truck and a Walther pistol, not Nissan cars that are still on the market as of this writing (although both are due to be replaced, with the 7th-gen Nissan 400Z hitting dealers now and an R36 GT-R confirmed to be in the works), so I don't expect them to be slavish Sunbow robots with car parts hanging off them.  And I actually kind of dig the samurai vibe Megatron's got going, with the doors forming shoulder armor.  However, Megatron's feet seem kind of small, proportionally, and when viewed from behind you can see it's because his actual legs are kind of spindly bits hidden by car parts only from the front and sides.  And, apologies in advance if you like it, but that head sculpt is possibly the worst I've seen on a Megatron that isn't from the Bayverse.

For the record, while I think silver is the deco that is closest to G1 Megatron, and the blue version is pretty much the same except the silver parts (excluding his head) are blue instead, the black deco might actually look the coolest with most of the black and silver robot parts being replaced with red.

Megatron's articulation isn't really all that different from Convoy's.  His head is on a ball joint with about the same downward tilt but slightly better up/sideways tilt.  His shoulders rotate and extend laterally about 60 degrees, due to the kibble.  I'll note on my copy that the hinges for the lateral shoulder movement have become pretty loose, and his left arm is especially prone to drooping.  Due to his transformation he's got a little backwards butterfly, too.  He has bicep swivels, 90 degrees of elbow bend, and ball jointed wrists that swivel and have some limited tilt.  Once again we have no waist swivel, and I think this has a lot to do with the Automorphing gimmick Takara decided to include in the line.  His hips can move forward 90 degrees on a ratchet, and a little less than that backward, and roughly 60-75 degrees laterally on friction joints.  His thighs swivel, and his knees bend 90 degrees.  His ankles are ball joints, with pretty good up/down tilt and the ability to swivel, plus they can pivot about 45 degrees.

Samurai Megatron can hold his swords by sliding the tabbed-shaped handles into the rectangular cutouts in his fists.  Plus, the little pegs you use to secure them to the underside of the car can also be used to plug the swords onto Megatron's hips.  Like Convoy, the backs of the seats on his forearms have a flip-out weapon, but no guns (or fusion cannons for Megatron).  This version must like getting up close and personal with his foes, because he's got arm blades instead.

In the narrow context of comparing Alternity Megatron to his red-hued rival, Convoy's probably the better figure.  He's got better proportions, a better head sculpt, and the backs of his legs are filled in better.  In the larger context, though, that's kind of splitting hairs.  They are, broadly speaking, the same thing.  Same concept (realistic 1:32 scale sports car turns into robot), same strengths (better engineering and engineering than the older Alternators/Binaltech stuff, great representations of the cars), and same weaknesses (limited articulation, engineering hampered by the Automorph gimmick).  So ultimately, my recommendation is pretty much the same; they're neat little pieces if you can find them at a reasonable price (I paid $40 for Megatron), but as the prices go higher the Alternity line starts to lose it's appeal.

[sh9000]

Those are still nice.  Seeing a 1/24 scale Alternator again reminds me that Takara Tomy could make a cool updated MASK line.

[Scyla]

@mikeszekely if I remember correctly you could tuck Megatrons hind wheels behind his calfs to give him a sleeker look.

[mikeszekely]

18 minutes ago, Scyla said:

@mikeszekely if I remember correctly you could tuck Megatrons hind wheels behind his calfs to give him a sleeker look.

Doesn't seem to be the case, no.  The wheels have a peg hole on the inside that fits onto a peg just below where the tail lights start to wrap from the shins to the sides of his legs, it's definitely where they were meant to go.  I thought maybe there might be an unofficial way to do it, but no.  The wheel and quarter panel is on a double-hinged armature, but that just accordions the assembly up to his thighs for transformation.  the armature is attached to his knee; there's no way to his knee cap.  Even though, I thought maybe, since the kneecap is below the thigh swivel but above the actual knee bend and there's a transformation swivel between them that I could still maybe fake it, but the transformation swivel only turns 90 degrees one way.

It's a shame, because putting the wheel onto his calves would have worked a lot better.  He'd have less kibble on the sides of his legs, and the wheels would help fill in or at least cover how thin his legs actually are when viewed from behind.

[Scyla]

5 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

Doesn't seem to be the case, no.  The wheels have a peg hole on the inside that fits onto a peg just below where the tail lights start to wrap from the shins to the sides of his legs, it's definitely where they were meant to go.  I thought maybe there might be an unofficial way to do it, but no.  The wheel and quarter panel is on a double-hinged armature, but that just accordions the assembly up to his thighs for transformation.  the armature is attached to his knee; there's no way to his knee cap.  Even though, I thought maybe, since the kneecap is below the thigh swivel but above the actual knee bend and there's a transformation swivel between them that I could still maybe fake it, but the transformation swivel only turns 90 degrees one way.

It's a shame, because putting the wheel onto his calves would have worked a lot better.  He'd have less kibble on the sides of his legs, and the wheels would help fill in or at least cover how thin his legs actually are when viewed from behind.

What I meant is that you can unpeg the wheels from the side and rest them on the back of his calfs. But maybe I misremembering things.
Now that I have more space for displaying my collection I should bring them out of storage and see if I still like them.

[M'Kyuun]

Generations Selects Cyclonus and Nightstick now available

New Arrivals – Hasbro Pulse , Transformers Generations Selects Cyclonus (Toy Colors) Pre-Orders Live - Transformers News - TFW2005

[mikeszekely]

6 hours ago, Scyla said:

What I meant is that you can unpeg the wheels from the side and rest them on the back of his calfs. But maybe I misremembering things.
Now that I have more space for displaying my collection I should bring them out of storage and see if I still like them.

Even if you unpeg it I really don't see any way to move the wheel anywhere behind the leg.  The joints on the armature only allow it to fold up to the thigh.

2 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

Generations Selects Cyclonus and Nightstick now available

Heh, I was just coming to post this.  I'm not 100% on the deco; I wish his fists were purple, and I think the metallic blue is a bit much- copies released in 1987, inlcuding the  Targetmaster version this references, didn't have any blue (my own non-Targetmaster G1 Cyclonus doesn't).  It is true that the original 1986 run did have some blue paint, but it A.) It was a darker, more subtle shade and B.) again, this deco is supposed to be the Targetmaster version, which didn't have the paint.

I preordered anyway.  Cylconus was one of of the best releases in the entire WfC line, I'll take any excuse for a redeco.

[Scyla]

37 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

Even if you unpeg it I really don't see any way to move the wheel anywhere behind the leg.  The joints on the armature only allow it to fold up to the thigh.

Heh, I was just coming to post this.  I'm not 100% on the deco; I wish his fists were purple, and I think the metallic blue is a bit much- copies released in 1987, inlcuding the  Targetmaster version this references, didn't have any blue (my own non-Targetmaster G1 Cyclonus doesn't).  It is true that the original 1986 run did have some blue paint, but it A.) It was a darker, more subtle shade and B.) again, this deco is supposed to be the Targetmaster version, which didn't have the paint.

I preordered anyway.  Cylconus was one of of the best releases in the entire WfC line, I'll take any excuse for a redeco.

I found what I meant in this video from Peaugh: 

[mikeszekely]

57 minutes ago, Scyla said:

I found what I meant in this video from Peaugh: 

OK, I see what you mean now.  

[Mechapilot77]

On 4/26/2022 at 1:33 PM, M'Kyuun said:

Generations Selects Cyclonus and Nightstick now available

New Arrivals – Hasbro Pulse , Transformers Generations Selects Cyclonus (Toy Colors) Pre-Orders Live - Transformers News - TFW2005

gotta say i NEVER like the G1 cyclonus toy but this deco  and its old g1 toy deco is SO SO SO SO much more interesting than the toon deco we're so used to seeing.  i've got kingdom figure but i'm totally getting this.  i haven't decided if i'm swapping kingdom out or just making the toon deco his "armada" aka drones in my personal head cannon.  this deco rocks.

also super excited about the diaclone twintwist deco thats been circulating recently.

[Wolf-1]

1 hour ago, Mechapilot77 said:

gotta say i NEVER like the G1 cyclonus toy but this deco  and its old g1 toy deco is SO SO SO SO much more interesting than the toon deco we're so used to seeing.  i've got kingdom figure but i'm totally getting this.  i haven't decided if i'm swapping kingdom out or just making the toon deco his "armada" aka drones in my personal head cannon.  this deco rocks.

also super excited about the diaclone twintwist deco thats been circulating recently.

I'm thinking the same thing; but since I didn't get the Sweeps either, things will be left unfinished, so $30 has just turned into $90.  

Since I don't have the original colors, no point behind the Diaclone repaints.  Amazon exclusive from what I've been able to find. 

[JB0]

Man, I wish the toy-style toy was the one that made it to retail. I like the mold, I like this a lot better than "flat lavender", but I don't think I need two of this mold.

 

Had I been given the option, I would've happily bought this instead of TV-style. But I wasn't.

[M'Kyuun]

4 hours ago, JB0 said:

Man, I wish the toy-style toy was the one that made it to retail. I like the mold, I like this a lot better than "flat lavender", but I don't think I need two of this mold.

Had I been given the option, I would've happily bought this instead of TV-style. But I wasn't.

Given the option, I would have also preferred the toy deco; it's just more visually interesting, with or without the stickers. I usually don't double dip unless I like the mold or they do something interesting with a repaint/retool. In this case, I think Cyclonus is one of the best molds they've ever produced, and certainly the best Cyclonus figure they've ever produced. I always loved G1 Cyclonus' jet mode- it sings to my soul; the G1 toy's bot mode, not so much. To that end, I have no issues with the toon-styled design for both his bot and jet modes, but seeing the old G1 deco on him evokes that nostalgia. I'm down with having both toon and toy decos. It's just an excellent figure.

As for the Sweep, I never cared much for Scourge's weird flying-bar-of-soap-evocative hovercraft alt mode.  I wonder that they couldn't have come up with something better.  I got Scourge, but I just don't feel the need to have the Sweep repaint. It's not that Scourge didn't turn out well; he did. But that god-awful alt mode just turns me off.

[Wolf-1]

10 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

As for the Sweep, I never cared much for Scourge's weird flying-bar-of-soap-evocative hovercraft alt mode.  I wonder that they couldn't have come up with something better.  I got Scourge, but I just don't feel the need to have the Sweep repaint. It's not that Scourge didn't turn out well; he did. But that god-awful alt mode just turns me off.

Not to mention that they were more or less just truly Robots, no personalities at all.  I've never been a fan of Scourge or the Sweeps for some of the exact same reasons as you.  However, this collection keeps outgrowing the original space alotted for it; already the Nemesis/Diaclone army has its own dedicated shelf with the main casts of seasons 1-3 on a 6ft table that is quickly becoming too small.  So I figured it was time for a Movie shelf, but without robbing from my table, the Decepticon trio is sorely outnumbered by even Rodimus and his small cohort; the Quinteson pack helps to a degree but things just still feel off.  While Cyclonus will be a "I want" purchase, the Sweeps are more of an completitionist OCD thing, much like the Insecticons will be as I never cared for them as characters either. 

[M'Kyuun]

9 minutes ago, Wolf-1 said:

Not to mention that they were more or less just truly Robots, no personalities at all.  I've never been a fan of Scourge or the Sweeps for some of the exact same reasons as you.  However, this collection keeps outgrowing the original space alotted for it; already the Nemesis/Diaclone army has its own dedicated shelf with the main casts of seasons 1-3 on a 6ft table that is quickly becoming too small.  So I figured it was time for a Movie shelf, but without robbing from my table, the Decepticon trio is sorely outnumbered by even Rodimus and his small cohort; the Quinteson pack helps to a degree but things just still feel off.  While Cyclonus will be a "I want" purchase, the Sweeps are more of an completitionist OCD thing, much like the Insecticons will be as I never cared for them as characters either. 

On the space issue, I feel ya: Never enough, and they keep making more stuff. I keep putting up more shelves, but there's only so much wall space.

I didn't care for the cartoon after the movie. I hated how they personified Galvatron, and after Leonard Nimoy's gravelly delivery in the film, I didn't care for Frank Welker's higher pitched crazy-voice for the character. It felt way off base. I also didn't like Hot Rod's mopey "I'm not good enough" attitude after his brash self-confident depiction in the film. As such, I only caught an ep here or there, but I just found the thing unwatchable. So, as you said, the personalities of Scourge and the Sweeps for me began and ended with the Movie, which means little to no character for either. Couple that with a crappy alt mode for Scourge, and my interest in the character dissipated. Contrarily, I love the Insecticons; I loved their introduction in First Season ( First Season is the holiest of holy scripture for me concerning Transformers- I love it, and it colors my take on TFs almost completely where G1 is concerned. After First Season, the writing took a downhill slide into whimsy and silliness and lost the more mature tone of S1, all in the name of selling toys and hitting syndication). In that vein, there was a lot of the same stuff in the Movie that I wasn't crazy about, but you know, it's still a fun watch.

[mikeszekely]

I dunno, I like Scourge's alt mode.  As a kid it seemed kind of otherworldly, the idea that this smooth, wingless shape could fly.  So I wound up getting Scourge and two Sweeps to go with him (plus I still have a pair of Titans Returns Scourges if I really need more Sweeps).  Cyclonus definitely had the cooler alt mode, though.  Less alien, but sleek and dangerous.  Plus, like @M'Kyuun said, it's one of the best figures Hasbro's released in the entire WfC trilogy.  I'd have bought a second if they just tweaked the colors a little, I can definitely do toy colors.

7 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

I didn't care for the cartoon after the movie... First Season is the holiest of holy scripture for me concerning Transformers- I love it, and it colors my take on TFs almost completely where G1 is concerned. After First Season, the writing took a downhill slide into whimsy and silliness and lost the more mature tone of S1

I agree that the first season is a lot better than the second.  As a kid, I'd also agreed that I didn't care for the cartoon after the movie... but as an adult, I dunno.  There's definitely some really bad episodes in season 3 (Madman's Paradise, Carnage in C-Minor, Surprise Party), but some of the better episodes had a stronger sci-fi feel than the first season's "what kind of crazy plan is Megatron coming up with to steal the Earth's energy this week?".  And sure, as a kid Rodimus seemed like a lump while Hot Rod was cool and cocky, but as an adult I think Hot Rod's self doubt and struggle to find his own way to lead living in Optimus' shadow as more believable than Rodimus carrying on like the same reckless punk that got Optimus killed.  Likewise, while I too prefer Nemoy's Galvatron, Season 3 Galvatron is explained by head damage he sustained after being tossed from Unicron.  In fact, the episode "Webworld" is about Cyclonus trying to get Galvatron help.

On 4/28/2022 at 6:03 PM, Mechapilot77 said:

also super excited about the diaclone twintwist deco thats been circulating recently.

Can't say I'm excited for it, but it's not like I was dying to have Lift-Ticket and Guard, but I still bought them.

[M'Kyuun]

The only good Scourge figure ever released, IMHO. He actually has a realistic alt mode, inspired by Boeing's beautiful X-48 UAV, and as such, it's one of the best aircraft alt modes Has/Tak has ever done for its believability and lack of kibble. While it certainly takes some liberties with bot mode, ultimately, I think they hued pretty close his original look. I love this figure. As a bonus, his weapons all tuck away neatly inside his wings, his plane mode has retractable gear, and his articulation is on par with Legacy, i.e. ankle tilts, waist swivel, and rotating wrists as well as the standard articulation we've been getting for years. I vehemently wish this had been G1 Scourge's original design, but I'm so incredibly happy we got this fig as an alternative. This represents everything that Transformers should be- believable alt mode, integrated weapons storage, excellent articulation, some functionality in alt mode where apropos, integrated transformation where the bot's bits become the vehicle (as opposed to shellforming or wearing the alt mode as a backpack). It's an example par excellence of how every TF with an aircraft alt mode should be designed, without exception, ad infinitum. (Thinking especially of all the egregiously terrible Silverbolts out there who essentially become a giant box with a plane attached to the top, and a bot with a plane on his back instead of integrating the two properly. I know it's faithful to the toon, but the tech and know-how exist to do it better, and we as fans should expect better. I do).

 

[Axelay]

9 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

The only good Scourge figure ever released, IMHO. He actually has a realistic alt mode, inspired by Boeing's beautiful X-48 UAV, and as such, it's one of the best aircraft alt modes Has/Tak has ever done for its believability and lack of kibble. While it certainly takes some liberties with bot mode, ultimately, I think they hued pretty close his original look. I love this figure. As a bonus, his weapons all tuck away neatly inside his wings, his plane mode has retractable gear, and his articulation is on par with Legacy, i.e. ankle tilts, waist swivel, and rotating wrists as well as the standard articulation we've been getting for years. I vehemently wish this had been G1 Scourge's original design, but I'm so incredibly happy we got this fig as an alternative. This represents everything that Transformers should be- believable alt mode, integrated weapons storage, excellent articulation, some functionality in alt mode where apropos, integrated transformation where the bot's bits become the vehicle (as opposed to shellforming or wearing the alt mode as a backpack). It's an example par excellence of how every TF with an aircraft alt mode should be designed, without exception, ad infinitum. (Thinking especially of all the egregiously terrible Silverbolts out there who essentially become a giant box with a plane attached to the top, and a bot with a plane on his back instead of integrating the two properly. I know it's faithful to the toon, but the tech and know-how exist to do it better, and we as fans should expect better. I do).

 

 

Agreed 100%. I still absolutely adore that Scourge. Its alt mode is just so elegant.

[sh9000]

Saw this posted by Robo Toy Fest.

 

[M'Kyuun]

I could have lived with that. Just pop on the Seeker head to complete the look.

The VF-1 has aged most graciously. Surprised Kawamori didn't take a similar tack when designing the F-15 Seeker mold for Takara; it's quite different from all his valks, none of which require partsforming and generally present a much cleaner and realistic fighter mode. I wish they'd consulted him for all their fighter aircraft TFs over the years, as Takara only cares if the plane looks good from a top view. 

[sh9000]

https://www.entertainmentearth.com/product/transformers-studio-series-86-core-spike-witwicky/hsf3142

https://tfsource.com/hasbro-transformers/86-exo-suit-core-class-transformers-studio-series-transformers-the-movie-86/

[Stampeed Valkyrie]

Been off the radar abit on my search for 86 Series..   still looking for perceptor.    Did finally find blue and silver colored  Silver Streak,  and a Cliff Jumper. 

[Scyla]

Rumors have it that the next G1 from Takara will be Trailbreaker:

(image courtesy of TFW2005).

I have MMC Terraegis for Trailbreaker and FT for Hoist so not really interested but I would be open for a yellow or blue one to have the mold in my collection.

[mikeszekely]

I picked up XTB's Hoist... I looked how, compared to MMC and BadCube, they were the only one that really retooled the legs and made him fatter. I never did pick up a Trailbreaker, though, and I'm done with Fans Toys (after Dead End). So I'll be keeping an eye on this.

[Scyla]

2 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

I picked up XTB's Hoist... I looked how, compared to MMC and BadCube, they were the only one that really retooled the legs and made him fatter. I never did pick up a Trailbreaker, though, and I'm done with Fans Toys (after Dead End). So I'll be keeping an eye on this.

Well FT Outrider will probably be released long before Bandit, so you have some time to change your mind.