The Transformers Thread (licensed) Next

[danth]

2 hours ago, derex3592 said:

Well....that pic says it ALL doesn't it.  MP-11 for Alt Mode all day every day.  MP-52 for Robot mode does it for me. SADLY...they couldn't keep the same light grey color as MP-11, which for me is why I'm not plunking down $$$ for MP-52. To damn dark! 

Agreed. The MP-52 top view in alt mode is very gappy/messy. Also that stubbier nose cone. 

For me, alt mode is king, so the MP-52 is a step down. It does look very nice in bot mode though, especially if your top priority is toon accuracy. I like the cleaner look, but MP-52 almost looks like sofubi due the the smoothness and roundness and I don't really love that.

[mikeszekely]

Available to preorder now at some store I never heard of... or hopefully soon on Pulse.

The irony is that I want this deco because I had the G1 toy as a kid, but as a kid I was always mad at the G1 toy because it looked so far off from the cartoon.

I could do without the tampos representing the G1 stickers (at least I hope they're tampos... I'm getting flashbacks to Prime Wars' stickers)... the extra red is really what separates the toy from the Marvel comics.  And he's missing some red on his belt, where he actually does need it.  But I'm digging it, for the most part.

 

[M'Kyuun]

20 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

Available to preorder now at some store I never heard of... or hopefully soon on Pulse.

The irony is that I want this deco because I had the G1 toy as a kid, but as a kid I was always mad at the G1 toy because it looked so far off from the cartoon.

I could do without the tampos representing the G1 stickers (at least I hope they're tampos... I'm getting flashbacks to Prime Wars' stickers)... the extra red is really what separates the toy from the Marvel comics.  And he's missing some red on his belt, where he actually does need it.  But I'm digging it, for the most part.

 

Just saw this on Twitter and clicked in here to see if it had been posted. Beat me to it, Mike. Anyway, this one hits the old nostalgia button for me too, as I still have my old G1 Galvatron, and I always dug the color scheme of the toy. This is a really good translation, overall. I hope those are tampos; HasTak's thin foil decals are notorious for rolling, tearing, or just falling off. I wish they'd given him the black gun like the original instead of recoloring the silly Revenge guns.

From the very beginning, there were serious inconsistencies between the toys and their screen likenesses, in no small part due to Floro Derry's contribution to the series and Transformers: The Movie. My first disappointment was the stark differences between Prowl the toy and his lovely robot depiction on the boxart. That, and the very limited articulation of the toy line,  gave me a sense of disappointment from early on, so by the time I got Galvatron, those translative differences between toy and toon gave me more of a sense of disenchantment than anger. Anyway, this is a pretty nice homage, although I'm not sure I feel like double dipping on this mold. It strums the heartstrings, but with my shelves all but full, and The Movie colored one PO'd, not sure I need another.

[mikeszekely]

18 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

Just saw this on Twitter and clicked in here to see if it had been posted. Beat me to it, Mike.

I'm actually surprised no one beat me to it; I actually saw the news in the late afternoon/early evening, but I'd bought a new phone today (a Galaxy S21 Ultra 5G) and was busy setting it up, tweaking settings, and generally feeling frustrated at all the little tweaks and inferior Samsung apps they pushes over the Google ones I've used for years.  I should have gone with OnePlus again instead of Samsung, but I'm leery of OnePlus's merger with Oppo (among other things).

[sh9000]

https://www.entertainmentearth.com/product/transformers-generations-selects-war-for-cybertron-voyager-galvatron-exclusive/hsf1809

[mikeszekely]

Galvatron is up on Pulse now, too.

[sh9000]

Cool.  I only saw one link on my feed earlier.  Here are more links.

https://dorksidetoys.com/products/transformers-generations-selects-f1809-leader-class-action-figure

https://hasbropulse.com/products/transformers-generations-selects-leader-wfc-gs27-galvatron

 

[treatment]

Bruticus pissy not being MP yet like StarCream v2.0...

 

🤣

[sh9000]

[tekering]

Forget it, LEK.  That lousy figure is not worth the effort of repainting.

[Scyla]

3 hours ago, tekering said:

Forget it, LEK.  That lousy figure is not worth the effort of repainting.

I‘ll second that. The worst offender is the voluminous, unproportioned chest and all for the sake of a Matrix gimmick that isn’t even canon if I remember correctly.

The sad thing is FansToys could have designed a vastly superior product, proofing to the fandom that they can make better MP toys than Takara. Sadly Hoodlum is mediocre at best. So MP Hot Rodimus is still the Hot Rod in my collection.  😑

[M'Kyuun]

Just watched Skullface's review of MP-52, and it didn't fare well.  My own subjective critique was primarily with how junked up the F-15 mode is with all the undercarriage, especially the faux canopy cover. I don't understand why it needs a faux canopy to start with, but that cover is just terrible looking. Bobby's copy had a lot of loose or inconsistent joint issues, which was a bit alarming to me, as I've seldom had egregious joint issues with my MP figs. Then again, I don't think I've bought an official MP since the first release of MP-36, as they've all had too many compromises or other things going on with them that I just didn't care for. It's sad, b/c like everyone else in the fandom, I always looked forward to the next MP, and I'm merely indifferent to them now. That said, I do have MP Skids on PO, and given its Hasui era looks, I'm looking forward to it. But this Starscream just turned me off from the get-go. I think the robot mode is beautiful, except the head looks a little too large to me. But as far as capturing the toon look, Takara nailed it. But a MP in my mind should strike a better balance between bot and alt modes, and in that respect, this toy is an utter failure for the numerous and obvious compromises to F-15 mode. If the joint issues that afflicting Bobby's copy are endemic, that's a huge black eye to both the folks that bought this toy, and Takara for putting out such a shoddy product.

It's not a good thing when this at legends scale

is of an overall better design and quality than this   That's my takeaway from the reviews I've seen. I also think the Maketoys Seeker is a better  design, and at MP scale, it will remain my choice for my MP collection. If the NA Seeker was ever upscaled to MP scale, though, I'd be sorely tempted to make them my MP Seeker of choice. Just a great design.

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by M'Kyuun

[technoblue]

* insert why not both meme here* 

Seriously, though, I was getting worried that I might get a bum copy of MP-52 myself. On first inspection, things look okay with no cracks or other reported QC issues. That said, comparing the in-hand reports, it’s clear this release is not as solid as Takara’s version of Arcee and that’s unfortunate. It will push more fans away, fans who were already on the fence thanks to Hound.

Yeah…IMO, not having Takara as a serious first-party player is bad news. 

Anyway, it will be interesting to see if we get any tweaks for Thundercracker and/or Skywarp. I think it would behoove Takara to do something. However, the window is open again for a third party to step up with a different design, one that’s solid, has a toonish bot mode, a better F-15 alt, and covers today’s popular points of articulation. 

With regard to Skullface, I wish I could say that I was still tuning in but I’ve lost interest in his style over the last year. The thing is, I found his Maketoys Meteor review from 2017 quite helpful and I agree with the issues he brought up in it but the times keep changing.

Edited July 7, 2021 by technoblue

[M'Kyuun]

1 hour ago, technoblue said:

* insert why not both meme here* 

Seriously, though, I was getting worried that I might get a bum copy of MP-52 myself. On first inspection, things look okay with no cracks or other reported QC issues. That said, comparing the in-hand reports, it’s clear this release is not as solid as Takara’s version of Arcee and that’s unfortunate. It will push more fans away, fans who were already on the fence thanks to Hound.

Yeah…IMO, not having Takara as a serious first-party player is bad news. 

Anyway, it will be interesting to see if we get any tweaks for Thundercracker and/or Skywarp. I think it would behoove Takara to do something. However, the window is open again for a third party to step up with a different design, one that’s solid, has a toonish bot mode, a better F-15 alt, and covers today’s popular points of articulation. 

With regard to Skullface, I wish I could say that I was still tuning in but I’ve lost interest in his style over the last year. The thing is, I found his Maketoys Meteor review from 2017 quite helpful and I agree with the issues he brought up in it but the times keep changing.

Heck make it three if the Maketoys design is appealing and/or you just like collecting Seekers. There's no Universal Law that says only product from one company may adorn your shelves at a time. Options are nice, and I enjoy collecting varying takes on characters. 

If Takara makes any changes for their further releases, I hope it's to address and correct, if possible, some of the cracks and joint issues. Neither should be an issue with a $250 toy. They need to police their factories and take greater strides with their QC measures, as these issues seem to follow most of their MP releases of late.

Surprised FT haven't at least revealed a Seeker design, even if it won't release for another 5-7 years.

I still tune in to Skully, although I don't watch all his vids. Likewise with all the other reviewers I watch. I must say, though, I like Skully's presentation style, although he's not the best source for gauging transforming toys, since he frequently has trouble with transforming them, and due to his more often than not transforming someone else's toy on loan, he's rue to be too forceful with stuff. Understandable. 

[technoblue]

28 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

Heck make it three if the Maketoys design is appealing and/or you just like collecting Seekers. There's no Universal Law that says only product from one company may adorn your shelves at a time. Options are nice, and I enjoy collecting varying takes on characters. 

You make a very good point.  I'm waiting for in-hand reports, but if Meteor EX is solid, I could see myself revisiting Maketoys again. 

[mikeszekely]

Well, since I'm not planning on getting MP-52 and since MP-52 is a lot of the discussion right now I went ahead and watched Bobby's review.  Now, I'll preface this by saying that I often find myself disagreeing with him, because we're two very different collectors.  Bobby likes heft, shelf presence, and paint.  He's a big Fans Toys fanboy.  I prefer clever engineering and figures that can be transformed without a ton of frustration and/or blocking out half your afternoon.  I'm more of an MMC kind of guy.

Well, this time, I'm pretty much in total agreement.  Yes, the alt mode is inferior to previous MP figures, but I've gone on record as saying that if sacrifices have to be made to one mode to improve the other then I generally prefer the sacrifices to be on the alt mode for the sake of a better robot.  And, in a vacuum where we're only looking at the official MP Starscreams, MP-52 has a much better bot mode.

Subjectively, though, I think Bobby's onto something with the proportions.  His backpack looks clean, but it's weirdly thick.  The front of his torso seems a bit bulbous, and yes, his head looks too big for his upper body, but his upper body might be too small for his lower body.  Finally, personal preference, but I do think the gray for most of his body is a bit too dark.

Super subjectively, while I do like a measure of cartoon accuracy (I like that newer MP-style Primes hid the wheels on his legs, for example), for me there's definitely a line where things can get too cartoony, and MP-52 crossed it.

Objectively, the quality is inexcusably poor for the company that's supposed to be the standard.  I know that a lot of Takara releases have had some issues, but if Bobby's is typical Starscream seems plagued with poor tolerances.  The knee and ankle joints are especially problematic, as it looks like he's got serious stability issues.  Then, while Bobby's looks OK, there's the widespread reports of cracking.  

Now, for everyone here who bought a copy I sincerely hope you're enjoying it, and that yours is one of the better ones.  But the QC is an issue that shouldn't be.  Hopefully it's the sort of issues that came up unexpectedly at the factory and Takara will get it straightened out before Thundercracker, and not Takara taking advantage of the fans.  But yeah, I'm really glad I have Maketoys for the main trio.

[JB0]

1 hour ago, mikeszekely said:

His backpack looks clean, but it's weirdly thick.  The front of his torso seems a bit bulbous, and yes, his head looks too big for his upper body, but his upper body might be too small for his lower body. 

This might be why I've gotten a "vinyl statue" feeling from the third MP Starscream.

I thought it was just down to slavish toon-accuracy being not my cup of tea, but an overly-large torso would push it over the edge into puffy caricature.

[sh9000]

[Scyla]

I’m always surprised how unconcerned Transformers collectors are with the accuracy of the alt-mode. Probably because most of them collect a representations of the character Starscream and not a toy that „converts“ from a F-15 fighter jet to a mecha.

 I think there is a big difference to what Macross Valkyrie collectors are after.

But to be fair MP-52 alt-modes underside looks faithful to his representation in the show (i.e. not like an F-15). 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Scyla

[sh9000]

[M'Kyuun]

Lek has mad skilz. Not sure I'd spend my time and labor on such a lackluster toy, but he can do as he likes.

Referencing @mikeszekely's post above, as far as preference, I'm in the same boat, more or less. Paint, heft, and presence are all nice, but unlike Skully, who's all about display and creates elaborate dioramas to showcase his collection, my display preferences are much simpler and tasteless😄, as I have little room, only two Detolfs, which necessitates a bit of cramming to get them all in there. But I'm the only one who has to look at it with any sort of appreciation (my wife couldn't care less), and I know what I've got in there, and it makes me happy. If we ever manage to get a bigger house, I'll get more cabinets and refine my display a bit (spread them out more for better posing options). But I value engineering  and a cool transformation sequence more than heavy paint or lots of die cast.  Like any number of us Trans-fans, my patience with overly complex transformations wanes as I get older. I thought we were supposed to mellow as we age, but that's not happening with me, and I find that as the years pile on, I prefer more straightforward transformations. Intuitive, if you will, although that's a subjective and over-used term. Hasbro's mainline stuff falls nicely into that bucket, which is probably why it remains the core of my TF collecting. Stuff like MP-36 Megatron can be fun, but I know if I transform him, I'm probably going to need an hour or so, as I very seldom transform my MP figs, and both he and MP BW Megatron are fairly complex and require a bit of time, especially when I'm doing it by rote, and strong memory has never been one of my talents. In fact I have yet to transform my BW Megs back to T-Rex after transforming to bot mode out of the box, so daunting, and potentially frustrating, it seems.  Someday I'll take the time.

As to the seeming decline in QC with Takara's latest offerings over the past few years, I hope they root out the causes and fix them. They're charging premium prices for QC laden products, and that simply shouldn't be the case. I do wonder, however, since they're primary market is Asia and Japan, are they even aware of QC issues on this side of the pond? Is that something they pay attention to, or are we in their blindspot?

6 hours ago, Scyla said:

I’m always surprised how unconcerned Transformers collectors are with the accuracy of the alt-mode. Probably because most of them collect a representations of the character Starscream and not a toy that „converts“ from a F-15 fighter jet to a mecha.

 I think there is a big difference to what Macross Valkyrie collectors are after.

But to be fair MP-52 alt-modes underside looks faithful to his representation in the show (i.e. not like an F-15). 

I think that goes far more towards the aircraft side of things, obviously, although I imagine car guys get a little worked up if a licensed car has compromises. But Takara have become very skilled at producing cars with few external compromises in the body shells. They may occasionally have a hinge or a pin hole that's noticeable, or a little bot kibble underneath, but they've become very good at doing cars. With bigger vehicles, like trucks, trains, planes, and space craft, all bets are off, and let the crazy bot kibble, large hinges, odd shaped panels and such- lets just say enormous creative license- become the defining characteristics of these alt modes.  One would think that the goal, a badge of pride, you might say, would be to refine the alt modes as well as the bot modes for a well balanced toy where both modes have good visual presence regardless of angle. The bottoms of cars can be excused, as we rarely see them, and I doubt even the most die-hard car guys care if bot bits are visible so long as they're not peeking out or ruining the profile of the car itself (like G1 Sideswipe's feet, for example). OTOH, aircraft are viewed from all angles because they fly. More often than not, it's the bottom of a plane you see as it flies overhead- I live near two airports, so I'm well aware.  Thus it would be logical to try and make the plane modes look better from all viewing angles, but sadly, that has never been the philosophy at Takara. They approach planes as they do cars, with the lower fuselage open to all sorts of compromise which essentially ruins the alt mode from any viewing angle except straight down. I'm not sure why the fandom has been so accepting, but they are and have been, and I fear, shall remain so. I think it'll take third parties stepping up their engineering to make more realistic jet modes for Takara to change their strategy, but I doubt even that looking at this Starscream. They actually took a step backwards in engineering from MP-03 to MP-52 so far as creating a more accurate, less compromised F-15. Yeah, the bot mode was chunky and decidedly un-toonish, but couldn't they have found a middle ground, employing some of the techniques, like the rotating chest intakes, from MP-03 to this new iteration to make both modes better? That's what Masterpiece should be, IMHO. When you don't give a sh!t about the alt mode, and it's not even close to realistic or accurate, what's the point of the transformation?  Not much of a disguise.

As far as Macross is concerned, we were spoiled from the onset by the cleanliness and realism of the VF-1's design. Fortunately, Kawamori continued that philosophy with the vast majority of his valks. But Kawamori is an aircraft enthusiast, and I think his design philosophy was to create the plane first, and design the robot elements out of that to preserve the realistic profile of his fighters. Some of his other aircraft designs, like the VA-3 Invader or the FBz-99G Zauberguerin aren't quite as refined or realistic as his jet fighter designs. I'm ok with that- I like sleek fighters, and Kawamori delivers. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by M'Kyuun

[technoblue]

1 hour ago, M'Kyuun said:

As far as Macross is concerned, we were spoiled from the onset by the cleanliness and realism of the VF-1's design. Fortunately, Kawamori continued that philosophy with the vast majority of his valks. But Kawamori is an aircraft enthusiast, and I think his design philosophy was to create the plane first, and design the robot elements out of that to preserve the realistic profile of his fighters. Some of his other aircraft designs, like the VA-3 Invader or the FBz-99G Zauberguerin aren't quite as refined or realistic as his jet fighter designs. I'm ok with that- I like sleek fighters, and Kawamori delivers. 

Macross is a little different, though. Yes, Kawamori takes inspiration from real-world aircraft now and then---before engineering his prototype Valkyries. However, the VF-1 has the benefit of being its own thing in fantasy, regardless of the source of inspiration and that works to its benefit in a way. It doesn't have to look exactly like an F-14 because it isn't one and was never meant to be one. It is a "what-if" prospect where alien technology is added to the mix of other marvels that propel humanity into an alternate future.

For VF-1 toys, we have the benefit of history to see how they improved over time. Not all VF-1 toys are created equal. 

With MP Starscream, I've observed that the expectation is clearly different. I think this is due in part to how the show set up the Transformers mythology. It's understood that Autobots and Decepticons "scanned" vehicles to disguise themselves after their ships crashed on earth. The seekers took the form of F-15s that were parked at an airfield. Now, this is where perceptions split, and it becomes a subjective (even personal) thing for some. However, the way I see it, although one's own personal and technical background can contribute heavily to their reasoning, the end analysis is more about how far one is willing to suspend their disbelief.    

Therefore, on the one hand, you have fans who are forgiving of the goofy toon design and who can overlook its imperfections. Mind you, a portion of these forgiving fans are also Macross fans who enjoy sleek fighters and cool mecha design. Speaking for myself, I'm able to separate Macross and Transformers into two buckets. One is premium and the other not so much, Unfortunately, the prices are starting to look the same. That critique is fair.

I can also sympathize with fans who are not forgiving of MP-52's alt mode design. The reasons explaining why they are disappointed in it are all legitimate. Some are not happy about the price increase when looking at the final retail package, some have very personal stories, some have more technical reasons. I think all of this is very much connected to how a person imagines Starscream themselves, perhaps even while watching the G1 cartoon when they were young. And if MP-52 doesn't match that perception, for whatever reason, then that's all there is really. The upside is that I think we will eventually get a Starscream that balances a real-world F-15 alt with a good looking bot mode.

It's only a matter of time.

[Chronocidal]

2 hours ago, technoblue said:

.....The upside is that I think we will eventually get a Starscream that balances a real-world F-15 alt with a good looking bot mode.

It's only a matter of time.

This is, I think, the point where thinking diverges wildly, for various reasons.  

From my personal perspective, I thought we already had this in MP-3/MP-11, and believe a mix of those designs that moved the hip skirts to the legs would have been pretty ideal.  But that's because my standards for "good looking bot mode" are vastly different than what seems to be the status quo.  I thought the bot mode was functional, posable, playable, and all the things that I would want a bot mode to be, because it achieved what I thought the MP line was after: realistic vehicles that transformed into robot characters.  MP-3 looked enough like I remembered the old G1 robot that I was satisfied, and it was a huge upgrade from my old G2 Ramjet, which was essentially my only comparison.

Fans of the character Starscream, and how he looks in the cartoons, didn't like a lot of things that never even occurred to me, and would never have bothered me at all if they weren't directly pointed out.  Frankly, most of them still don't bother me.  

I feel like what I'm looking at is a sliding scale of accuracy to both the jet and robot.  Theoretically we could have both, but realistically speaking, I think a fair target is for the jet and robot to be equally compromised, each sharing in the burden of making the figure physically possible.  

Overall?  I think MP-3 was weighted more toward the jet.  I didn't mind that, but I think MP-11 was a better balance, and while the underside lost that smooth profile, the changes to the legs did look better on the robot.  With careful tweaking, I think it would probably be possible to resolve some of the other niggling issues with the robot, like the head being too high.

MP-52 threw that scale fully to the bot side, and said "We don't care how ugly the jet is, we're making a figure that looks like the cartoon, because we know most of you don't give two shakes about the jet."  Unfortunately for the F-15 enthusiasts among us, they actually weren't really wrong about that.

Maybe someday they'll pull some magic out of their hat, and make those little changes that would have given the MP-11 the better robot without having to sacrifice some of the innovations that gave it such a good jet (the rotating chest intakes especially).  We'll have to wait and see.  

Edited July 8, 2021 by Chronocidal

[sh9000]

I like this Soundwave better with the feet removed in cassette player mode.

[mikeszekely]

12 minutes ago, sh9000 said:

I like this Soundwave better with the feet removed in cassette player mode.

Is that the new Core-class one? I think Go Better is making feet that fold in for it.

Edited July 8, 2021 by mikeszekely

[sh9000]

1 hour ago, mikeszekely said:

Is that the new Core-class one? I think Go Better is making feet that fold in for it.

Yes.  I’d probably buy a Blaster if Hasbro made one.  I passed on their Starscream and might get their Megatron if I see it again.

[M'Kyuun]

2 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

From my personal perspective, I thought we already had this in MP-3/MP-11, and believe a mix of those designs that moved the hip skirts to the legs would have been pretty ideal.  But that's because my standards for "good looking bot mode" are vastly different than what seems to be the status quo.  I thought the bot mode was functional, posable, playable, and all the things that I would want a bot mode to be, because it achieved what I thought the MP line was after: realistic vehicles that transformed into robot characters.  MP-3 looked enough like I remembered the old G1 robot that I was satisfied, and it was a huge upgrade from my old G2 Ramjet, which was essentially my only comparison.

I concur. I admire Technoblue's optimism that another more balanced MP Seeker will come along, but, with the current toon-centric bot philosophy driving the designs, and Takara's general indifference towards aircraft alt accuracy, I think we've already gotten the best we'll ever get in a balanced F-15 Seeker. The thought just struck me; what if the same level of  compromises were to show up on any other characters' alt modes besides the Seeker? Would those, too, be acceptable? I somehow doubt it. The fandom is willing to forgive egregious compromises to aircraft alts, but what if Hound had a serious lift to accommodate all sorts of odd shapes under his vehicle mode with like a mm of ground clearance. Or a potential Jazz, for that matter. Would that be acceptable? 

2 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Fans of the character Starscream, and how he looks in the cartoons, didn't like a lot of things that never even occurred to me, and would never have bothered me at all if they weren't directly pointed out.  Frankly, most of them still don't bother me.  

Never had a problem with how he looked, but as a thirteen year old, I wasn't quite as critical. There was soooo much license employed in that show; anyone who bought the toys and then watched the toon had to feel some form of disenchantment with both. The toys had a lot of great real world detail that was ignored by the simplified and often inconsistent animation. The toon gave an idealized version of the characters that contrasted with the compromises necessary to make the toys work. The toon characters had full body articulation; the toys seldom had any below the waist, and often stationary heads. Some had no elbows.  Then there were Ratchet and Ironhide- night and day from toy to toon (Thank you for that, Floro Derry)  I think Kawamori designed the vanette bros for Diaclone, IIRC. Not sure what he was smoking that day, but I'm glad Derry redesigned them to fit the show. Their toon likenesses being inventions almost completely divorced from the toys is another of those odd compromises that has affected how the toys are envisioned over the years.

2 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

I feel like what I'm looking at is a sliding scale of accuracy to both the jet and robot.  Theoretically we could have both, but realistically speaking, I think a fair target is for the jet and robot to be equally compromised, each sharing in the burden of making the figure physically possible.  

To me, that was MP-03, and then MP-11, exactly as you said. Takara could have taken some design cues from those toys and applied them to MP-52 to make a better alt mode, but the emphasis of that design was clearly to achieve the most toon accurate Starscream bot mode possible, and all else was afterthought. When Takara invited Kawamori to help refine the already designed MP Seeker, which would become MP-11, he took a similar approach as he does with his valks and concentrated on getting the F-15 mode as close to accurate as possible, fudging some of the design by turning it from a C to an E model, and giving the bot mode hip scabbards, and changing the shpe of the legs and feet to better approximate the F-15's aft fuselage. So yeah, that toy evolved from very F-15 accurate to more of a compromise, with the blocky G1 legs equipped with stabilizer supports mounted on sliders permanently attached to the lower legs. I think with a little better sculpting to try and capture the shape of the toon leg, they could have achieved a better balance back then. It still wouldn't have changed the cockpit's too-high hinge, which set it and the head too far above the shoulders, but it would have been a step in the right direction. Maketoys did a really good job of making good compromises between the bot and alt modes, and I was hoping that Takara would improve on that design, but they went way overboard for bot mode toon accuracy.

As I see it, as long as Takara stays the course with their current design philosophy, I don't entertain much hope of a better balanced MP Seeker any time soon. Maybe in another decade or two when perhaps some of the current designers are retiring and new guys are coming in, but at that point, will G1 even have relevance? I dunno.

 

[JB0]

4 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

I think Kawamori designed the vanette bros for Diaclone, IIRC. Not sure what he was smoking that day

Ratchet and Ironhide's derigns make sense... as the human-operated maintenance vehicles they were designed as.

More than anything else in the line, they did not fit the Transformers conceit of "intelligent" self-operating alien robots.

 

 

I think the concept behind them is really cool, but an absolutely terrible fit for Transformers. I do hope the new Diaclone line revisits them in the same way it has redone Convoy.

[sh9000]

Here’s the barcode for Slag just in case he’s already showing up at your store.

[mikeszekely]

9 hours ago, technoblue said:

Macross is a little different, though. Yes, Kawamori takes inspiration from real-world aircraft now and then---before engineering his prototype Valkyries. However, the VF-1 has the benefit of being its own thing in fantasy, regardless of the source of inspiration and that works to its benefit in a way. It doesn't have to look exactly like an F-14 because it isn't one and was never meant to be one. It is a "what-if" prospect where alien technology is added to the mix of other marvels that propel humanity into an alternate future.

Yeah, I've been saying this for awhile now.  Valkyries have the luxury of being fictional planes designed to turn into fictional robots from the start.  Today's Transformers, especially MPs, have the challenge of being cartoon-accurate robots in ways the even G1 toys weren't and turning into actual aircraft that don't turn into robots in real life.  Now, I think it's fair to expect more out of a $200 MP toy than a $30 Voyager, but I still maintain that if something has to give it should usually be the alt mode.  Mind you, a case can still be made that figures like MP-52 (and MP-44, honestly) are too cartoony, but that's a different debate.

6 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

As I see it, as long as Takara stays the course with their current design philosophy, I don't entertain much hope of a better balanced MP Seeker any time soon.

With their current design philosophy I don't entertain much hope of MPs I like, period.  Like I've said, I like cartoon-accuracy, but in a PG Gundam vs the animation sort of way.  I don't want toys that look exactly like a poorly-animated, 37 year old cartoon, I want toys that look like they could be the actual, real robots the animators were trying to capture.

41 minutes ago, sh9000 said:

Here’s the barcode for Slag just in case he’s already showing up at your store.

Thanks.  Popped it into BrickSeek, and there isn't a Target around for 50 miles with it.  Not surprised, though, I haven't seen Galvatron, Rhinox, Core-class Soundwave, or any of the other figures that have been popping up at other people's Targets.

[M'Kyuun]

57 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

Yeah, I've been saying this for awhile now.  Valkyries have the luxury of being fictional planes designed to turn into fictional robots from the start.  Today's Transformers, especially MPs, have the challenge of being cartoon-accurate robots in ways the even G1 toys weren't and turning into actual aircraft that don't turn into robots in real life.  Now, I think it's fair to expect more out of a $200 MP toy than a $30 Voyager, but I still maintain that if something has to give it should usually be the alt mode.  Mind you, a case can still be made that figures like MP-52 (and MP-44, honestly) are too cartoony, but that's a different debate.

I'll just leave it alone.😄

58 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

With their current design philosophy I don't entertain much hope of MPs I like, period.  Like I've said, I like cartoon-accuracy, but in a PG Gundam vs the animation sort of way.  I don't want toys that look exactly like a poorly-animated, 37 year old cartoon, I want toys that look like they could be the actual, real robots the animators were trying to capture.

I couldn't have come up with a more apt description. I think that was the direction Hasui was pursuing, and I'm super happy that MP Prowl got made under his watch instead of the current team's. I have no issue with taking the better aspects of the toon and incorporating them into a toy, but to try and copy the blandness and other idiosyncrasies of a poorly animated show just takes the approach too far.  I wish they'd done a spin-off line like Studio Series to channel the toon-centric philosophy, and let Hasui and his team continue the MP line as it was. 

[JB0]

4 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

Yeah, I've been saying this for awhile now.  Valkyries have the luxury of being fictional planes designed to turn into fictional robots from the start.  Today's Transformers, especially MPs, have the challenge of being cartoon-accurate robots in ways the even G1 toys weren't and turning into actual aircraft that don't turn into robots in real life. 

Also, the Transformers line is well past the point where you can design the toys to be vehicles that turn into robots. They pretty much HAVE to be robots that turn into vehicles, because that's how the franchise has been sold and they've steered hard down the road of preserving the old cartoon designs instead of robots that can actually turn into these vehicles. The humanoid form will almost always take precedence over the car, truck, or plane, and that is an unfortunate situation for people who want more of a focus on the vehicles and greater parts reuse between modes.

 

This is an even bigger problem with the F-15 robots, because the original toy that the cartoon was based off of made a pretty crappy jet to start with, with most of the robot just hanging off the underside of the plane(setting the very low standard by which all future jetformers would be judged). We'd be a lot better off today if the original Diaclone F-15 was designed more like Leader-1, which actually looked kinda like an F-15 from the bottom.

 

 

 

Edit: Riiight, I didn't actually think those were all going to embed like that. I was trying to illustrate the point less obtrusively.

Edited July 9, 2021 by JB0

[Scyla]

I still want a DX Eagle Robo from Action Toys. 
 

 

[sqidd]

On 7/7/2021 at 12:16 PM, M'Kyuun said:

Just watched Skullface's review of MP-52, and it didn't fare well.  My own subjective critique was primarily with how junked up the F-15 mode is with all the undercarriage, especially the faux canopy cover. I don't understand why it needs a faux canopy to start with, but that cover is just terrible looking. Bobby's copy had a lot of loose or inconsistent joint issues, which was a bit alarming to me, as I've seldom had egregious joint issues with my MP figs. Then again, I don't think I've bought an official MP since the first release of MP-36, as they've all had too many compromises or other things going on with them that I just didn't care for. It's sad, b/c like everyone else in the fandom, I always looked forward to the next MP, and I'm merely indifferent to them now. That said, I do have MP Skids on PO, and given its Hasui era looks, I'm looking forward to it. But this Starscream just turned me off from the get-go. I think the robot mode is beautiful, except the head looks a little too large to me. But as far as capturing the toon look, Takara nailed it. But a MP in my mind should strike a better balance between bot and alt modes, and in that respect, this toy is an utter failure for the numerous and obvious compromises to F-15 mode. If the joint issues that afflicting Bobby's copy are endemic, that's a huge black eye to both the folks that bought this toy, and Takara for putting out such a shoddy product.

It's not a good thing when this at legends scale

is of an overall better design and quality than this   That's my takeaway from the reviews I've seen. I also think the Maketoys Seeker is a better  design, and at MP scale, it will remain my choice for my MP collection. If the NA Seeker was ever upscaled to MP scale, though, I'd be sorely tempted to make them my MP Seeker of choice. Just a great design.

 

I watched this last night. He was NOT HAPPY with it. After seeing him detail out what he wasn't happy about I can see why.

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by sqidd

[technoblue]

4 hours ago, JB0 said:

This is an even bigger problem with the F-15 robots, because the original toy that the cartoon was based off of made a pretty crappy jet to start with, with most of the robot just hanging off the underside of the plane(setting the very low standard by which all future jetformers would be judged). We'd be a lot better off today if the original Diaclone F-15 was designed more like Leader-1, which actually looked kinda like an F-15 from the bottom.

<snip>

 

 

 

That’s a great comparison. The original Leader-1/Eagle Robo toy has a good balance between modes. The action toys redux of Eagle Robo adds modern engineering and articulation, sacrificing some of those clean alt mode aesthetics. Even so, the action toys updates (even the other fliers) are well received by fans.

3 hours ago, Scyla said:

I still want a DX Eagle Robo from Action Toys. 

Yes. The DX version of Eagle Robo is long overdue. I hope the DX line is more than a one and done offshoot.