The Transformers Thread (licensed) Next

[JB0]

5 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

IMHO, they've been making poor TF jets since the eighties, they seem to sell regardless, so why change or improve? There's no incentive to try so long as people accept the lazy engineering and continue buying these things without meaningful protest or critique.

Still upset about Bayverse Jetfire. I was all ready to buy a friggin' SR-71 Transformer. My wallet was out and my card all warmed up.

...

And then I saw the damn thing and any desire to own one evaporated. I know it was a hard plane to turn into a robot, but they didn't even TRY. "Hey, what if the robot IN ITS ENTIRETY just hangs under the plane? And we put four engine pods on the robot mode? And a bunch of other stupid decisions that make it a bad Blackbird, a bad Jetfire, and just a bad Transformer?"

Edited April 16, 2020 by JB0

[tekering]

3 hours ago, JB0 said:

"Hey, what if the robot IN ITS ENTIRETY just hangs under the plane? And we put four engine pods on the robot mode? And a bunch of other stupid decisions that make it a bad Blackbird, a bad Jetfire, and just a bad Transformer?"

"And we'll make him a raving old man with a Yorkshire accent, who farts parachutes, and commits suicide, and Optimus will wear his dismembered corpse... like a backpack!"

 

[M'Kyuun]

12 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

You can disagree with the gist of my assertion, but you can also look at the numbers.  If you look at the ratio of the height to length both the Raptor and the Countach have similar ratio of around 1:3.8... at their thickest point.  For the Raptor, that's from the bottom of the landing gear to the top of the vertical stabilizers.  The bulk of the fuselage is maybe half the listed height if I'm being generous, and when the Countach is measured from the bottom of the wheel to the top of the roof, with the cabin roughly a third of the vehicle and rear only dropping a little from that it's still a fact that the Raptor is proportionally much thinner.  So yeah, it's a big, boxy fighter.  So's the F-15, but AFAIK even stuff like MP-11 is thicker in jet mode than an actual F-15, because neither are as boxy as a car.

Again, I'm not an engineer.  I'm not saying that it's impossible to make a robot that turns into a better, thinner F-22, but I am saying that it's a lot harder than making a robot out of a car.

And that's why, while you could conceivably get a decent F-22 out of a robot if you started with the F-22 and worked backward to something boxy and G1-ish, I don't think it's ever going to happen with movie Starscream.

They're definitely prioritizing the robot modes, but again I think it has a lot to do with the fact that fighters are thinner and not as wide (if you exclude the wings) than just about any other mode alt mode.

I don't think Kawamori's Valks are the best example.  Transformers have to figure out how to get robots out of real-world aircraft, Kawamori gets to design aircraft that are purposely designed to transform into robots with large engine nacelles to accommodate the legs.  And even at that, you'll notice that since they started using computer animation for the mecha instead of traditional cell-shaded animation that his designs have gotten a lot skinnier, especially in the limbs.

Because, again, different proportions give them thicker vehicles that they can stuff the robot into, especially if you only measure from the nose to the base of the tail boom instead of the the end.  Also because three of those examples didn't appear on-screen, allowing the designers to work backward from the aircraft without trying to fit a particular CGI character.  Or in the case of Dropkick, because the robot is only passingly screen-accurate.

Holy cow, Mike, you know how to compose an argument. I feel like I'm sparring with a lawyer.   I'm not sure I can conjure up a more persuasive argument to support my view, so I'll leave it be.  I still believe it's possible to get a decent Bayformer Starscream from a reasonably accurate F-22, but until such a time as some third party comes along and does it, b/c we all know HasTak never will, it's all conjecture on my part. I'd like to see Unique Toys give it a go, as they've done some impressive work thus far, and among the third parties, I think they've demonstrated the chops. Or perhaps Wei Jiang. 

8 hours ago, JB0 said:

Still upset about Bayverse Jetfire. I was all ready to buy a friggin' SR-71 Transformer. My wallet was out and my card all warmed up.

...

And then I saw the damn thing and any desire to own one evaporated. I know it was a hard plane to turn into a robot, but they didn't even TRY. "Hey, what if the robot IN ITS ENTIRETY just hangs under the plane? And we put four engine pods on the robot mode? And a bunch of other stupid decisions that make it a bad Blackbird, a bad Jetfire, and just a bad Transformer?"

Sad situation, that. Both the characterization and the toy. Thus far the best transforming SR-71 toy I've seen is the Action Toys Machine Robo Blackbird. It's not proportionally accurate, but overall, it integrates the robot much better than pretty much any other version I've seen, and the resulting SR-71 is passable. And it's a fun little toy to boot.

[JB0]

17 hours ago, tekering said:

"And we'll make him a raving old man with a Yorkshire accent, who farts parachutes, and commits suicide, and Optimus will wear his dismembered corpse... like a backpack!"

 

I'd've been willing to ignore poor characterization for a cool toy. But I got the worst of both worlds.

 

12 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Sad situation, that. Both the characterization and the toy. Thus far the best transforming SR-71 toy I've seen is the Action Toys Machine Robo Blackbird. It's not proportionally accurate, but overall, it integrates the robot much better than pretty much any other version I've seen, and the resulting SR-71 is passable. And it's a fun little toy to boot.

From what I've seen, the Action Toys version hews pretty close to the original Go-Bots toy, too.  

Amazing what happens when you start your design with the premise that the vehicle has to be mechanically capable of turning into the robot, ain't it?

[M'Kyuun]

8 hours ago, JB0 said:

I'd've been willing to ignore poor characterization for a cool toy. But I got the worst of both worlds.

Same boat; concerning transforming toys, characterization means little to me if the toy is cool. Bayformers Jetfire had a double dose of bad.

9 hours ago, JB0 said:

From what I've seen, the Action Toys version hews pretty close to the original Go-Bots toy, too.  

The Action Toys version pretty much shares the same transformation, albeit with a few changes to allow for the improved articulation. besides size, the other main difference between the Machine Robo toys and Transformers was that, in general, more of the alt modes were used to form the robots without hidden arms and such. Gobots wasn't the best show, but I liked how the transformations mirrored the actual toy transformations, unlike Transformers that usually fudged them. 

9 hours ago, JB0 said:

Amazing what happens when you start your design with the premise that the vehicle has to be mechanically capable of turning into the robot, ain't it?

Yep. That's why Kawamori's designs work, in most cases. Some of his transformations can be a little dodgy, but overall, he designs his mecha with an eye to engineering that could realistically work, at least in a toy.  I think Takara do a fantastic job with ground vehicles, everything from motorcycles to big trucks. Jets seem to be their Achilles heel, for whatever reason. Kawamori designed the original Seeker mold for Diaclone, which is why I think it managed a modicum of accuracy in jet mode, and continues to be one of their best jet designs. I often wonder why they take so much care with preserving the alt modes of cars, but jet alt modes nearly always fall to concessions for the bot modes- a very unequal balance of priority. I'd love to see an interview with them addressing that dichotomy.

[Kuma Style]

Got tired of one of if not y absolute favorite piece in the Ultimetal OP being displayed in the open so had a custom display case done. I honestly really like it.

 

[sqidd]

6 minutes ago, Kuma Style said:

Got tired of one of if not y absolute favorite piece in the Ultimetal OP being displayed in the open so had a custom display case done. I honestly really like it.

 

 

 

Very nice. The clear top really makes a difference compared to a Detolf. Especially for such a imposing figure.

[Kuma Style]

TY. I was kind of eh on the glass top at first until I got it up where I want it and the way that it lights up through the ceiling is just rad.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Kuma Style

[M'Kyuun]

Nice case, Kuma. First time I've seen Uni-Metal Prime; looks like they took some design cues from MP-10.  Nice.

[Kuma Style]

Thanks man and yea I definitely see nods to MP-10 in terms of the lower body and it's pretty cool. In fact there are the only two I can think of that use that type of fender on the legs.


 

[lechuck]

The MAS-01 Optimus Prime also has them.

Never been a fan of those wheel casings sticking out on the side of the legs, but Ultimetal does it best.

[sqidd]

11 hours ago, Kuma Style said:

TY. I was kind of eh on the glass top at first until I got it up where I want it and the way that it lights up through the ceiling is just rad.

 

That looks FANTASTIC!

Where did you get/who makes the case?

[Kuma Style]

Has anyone here tried doing decals themselves on cases? Once I get things a bit more settled and organized I'd like to try doing brands.

[mikeszekely]

I miss looking at Transformers in stores.  But I did get a small shipment from TFSource, starting with (yet another) Studio Series Bumblebee.

I guess the usual "this is a $20 Deluxe" caveats apply- he could use a little more paint and color separation, especially in his arms.  His feet are a tad big, and his legs are packing some kibble.  I think it's more screen-accurate than the previous Bumblebee movie Bee, though.  He's got the tires on the backs of his shoulders, the bent jeep front for his chest, and mostly appropriate details on his shins.

That said, he's got a bit of kibble on his back and on his heels, and the tires that should be in his heels are in his calves.

Bee's sole accessory is his stinger gun.  The molded details is fine, but it completely lacks any paint, and I feel that parts of it should be yellow.

Bee's head is on a hinged swivel, so he can look left and right, and while he can't really look down he can look straight up.  His shoulders are ball joints, and they can extend 90 degrees laterally as well as rotate.  He has bicep swivels just above his elbows, and said elbows can bend just over 90 degrees.  Unfortunately he doesn't have any wrist articulation.  His waist can swivel, though.  His hips are ball joints, and he can kick forward over 90 degrees.  Backward is limited to about 45 degrees due to the kibble he's carrying, but I think that's good enough.  Laterally the shape of his hips limits him to about 70 degrees.  His thighs can swivel.  His knees bend a bit over 90 degrees.  His ankles are ball joints, so his feet have a little up and down tilt, just under 45 degrees of pivot, plus they can swivel.

His stinger has a 5mm peg on the underside, which is mostly hollow to fit over part of his forearm.  This allows him to have that part-of-his-arm look that movie Bumblebees do without having to remove the arm the way some of the older Studio Series Bumblebees did.  Note that, due to the shape of the stinger, it only fits on his right arm.

Something that's stood out to me about some of the previous Studio Series Bumblebees is that a lot of the alt mode seemed to be a shell that was folded up into a backpack and wings on the robot mode, and transforming them to vehicle mode was sometimes a frustrating battle trying to unfold the backpack and get everything to tab together.  The worst offender was easily the previous Bumblebee movie Bee.  So I have to say I was pleasantly surprised to find that Jeep Bee is pretty straightforward and simple, and for the most part holds together just fine.  The only issue I really ran into is a little gap under the hood.

Once again, his alt mode could definitely use more paint in spots, but he's pretty faithful to his movie Willys counterpart.  He's even got that thing on his driver's side fender (sorry, I have no idea what it is).  The most noticeable differences are his super visible robot arms dangling underneath (although not so low that they impede his ability to roll), the fact that the rear of the jeep behind the front seats isn't empty, the lack of a side mirror on the driver's side, and the huge hinges running down the middle of the spare tire and gas can on the rear.

If you take a peek inside he's got two seats, a steering wheel, and even a bit of molded center console.  And if you look on the underside you'll see that there's a space to store his stinger between his legs.  As with his arms, the stinger hangs low but not so low that it impedes his ability to roll.

It's a shame that Jeep Bee had so little screen time, because this is easily one of the best Bumblebees in the Studio Series line.  It's a fun toy that's pretty simple to transform and has pretty good articulation.  Be advised that the ball joints on his hips are pretty loose, though, at least on my copy.  I'm left wondering if Hasbro will find a re-use for this mold (like they shoehorned WW II Bumblebee into WW II Hot Rod).  With a new head and green paint this would have made a pretty good Hound.  I'd give this figure a recommend.

Now I wonder what version of Bumblebee will turn up next in the Studio Series line?  I hope the black '60s Camaro from Age of Extinction.

[mikeszekely]

Well, I didn't pick up Roadbuster, because the Wreckers struck me as mostly blink-and-you'll-miss-them in DotM and I'm really not a fan of the "stealth force" guns-out alt mode.  He's the sort I might have picked up if I saw him in a store, but... y'know.  So for now, that just leaves Studio Series Shatter.  Is this one better than the first go?  Let's find out.

At the risk of repeating myself after that Bumblebee review, the new Shatter's overall sculpt is much closer to what you see on screen than the previous one.  The shape of the legs, the knee vents, the rounded shoulders with the intakes and wings hanging off her back, the chest, and most especially the new head that isn't based off on older, unused design are all improvements.  Again, though, I feel like more paint could have helped a lot.  Like, yes, her hands were mostly red in the movie, but with black in the joints.  She should have a red stripe over the front of her shins.  And the sea of silver paint and silver-ish plastic could properly do with some black to break it all up (maybe a wash?).  From the front she also seems plagued with a lot less kibble than the earlier figure, which wasn't just unsightly on the older figure but actually hindered its articulation.

You'll notice, though, that I did say "from the front."  While the engines and wings hanging off her shoulders is screen accurate this version of Shatter suffers from a problem all too common on jetformers, in that she's wearing a large chunk of her alt mode on her back.  The entire nose, the engines, the wings, and about half the spine are folded up there.  Plus she's got the tail folded into her calves.  Still, as back-heavy as you'd think she is she really doesn't have trouble standing, and I'm honestly not convinced it's that much worse than having a good portion of a car folded up onto her back.

Shatter comes with her two guns.  Like Bumblebee, they're largely hollow on the underside with a 5mm peg closer to the middle, so they fit over her forearms to give her that integrated look.  This also means they're mirrored, not identical, and each one fits in a particular hand.  As for accuracy, Dropkick seemed to be the enforcer for the bulk of the movie.  I don't recall Shatter actually getting her guns out until she was on the tower at the end, and I can't really make out details in those dark, high-motion scenes.

k

Shatter's head is on a swivel, and she can look left and right but her range is limited to under 90 degrees in either direction due to the shape of her collar.  Because of how she transforms she can look up (sometimes unintended), but not really down.  Her shoulders are ball joints, and they can rotate and extend 90 degrees.  Her biceps swivel, and her elbows can bend 90 degrees.  Weirdly, her elbows aren't truly ratcheted, but they do have detents that feel like a soft ratchet.  No wrist articulation, and no waist articulation.  Her hips are ball joints, and she can kick forward well over 90 degrees, backward over 90 degrees, and laterally about 75 degrees.  She does have thigh swivels just above her knees, which bend 90 degrees.  Due to transformation her feet can tilt up but not down, and she doesn't have any ankle pivots.  In other words, she doesn't have the best articulation (although the Studio Series never did compared to Siege or Earthrise), but it's actually a big improvement over the previous Shatter figure.

Shatter's transformation is kind of interesting, because it's not immediately apparent how it works.  Once you figure it out, though, it's actually pretty easy.  Just remember to tab the panels hanging under the wings into the sides before bringing her legs up to complete the tail and you shouldn't have any issues.

Well, accuracy was never really going to be a thing here, because Hasbro clearly opted to not license the Harrier.  From the start they added canards to the front, and they put her exhaust nozzles on the tail instead of mid-body.  That said, I'm surprised they got as close as they did, especially on a deluxe.  The wings are in the right place, if a little less rounded along the leading edge, and tail has properly downward-angled horizontal stabilizers and a properly single vertical stabilizer.  And if you ignore the canards the nose is close to Harrier's, as are the engine intakes and roundish fuselage.  It isn't even until you get to the rear half of the plane that you can start to make out robot kibble where leg legs and especially her feet don't quite blend in.

I do think she needs more red, at least near the intakes.  But again, her Harrier mode made only brief appearances in the film, and mostly in the dark, so it's hard to see it clearly enough to judge.  

Shatter has fold out landing gear under her nose; in fact, the landing gear has a tab on it that secures her backpack into the small of her back for robot mode.  There's also molded landing gear on what's the backs of her robot thighs, but they don't fold or move.  And, as I already said, it's not accurate for her to have the exhaust nozzles on the tail instead of the sides of the fuselage, but they are hinged so you can aim they down for VTOL flight.  Lastly, there are peg holes on the undersides of her wings where you can attach her blasters.

So here's the thing... I'm not going to tell you that this version of Shatter is some kind of high water mark for the Studio Series line, because it isn't.  It's a decent, middle-of-the-pack sort of figure.  But being a decent, middle-of-the-pack sort of figure is a major improvement over the previous version, which was possibly the worst figure in the entire Studio Series line.  And on that note, if you need a Shatter for your Studio Series figures this is definitely the one to get as it's got a more accurate robot mode with better articulation and transformation that's fun to do without parts popping off.  As far as I'm concerned the other one is now permanently in car mode.

Edited April 26, 2020 by mikeszekely

[David Hingtgen]

Needs a lot more red---most of the tops of the wings should be red, tailfin mostly black:

And of course, none of it is gunmetal-silver-grey. 

(it's not a screencap, but this is the final scheme they went with---even freeze-framing the movie doesn't help THAT much, but it's enough to tell that what actually shows up in the movie, is definitely this version, and not any others floating around out there)  

PS----does the toy completely lack Decepticon logos? 

[mikeszekely]

3 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

Needs a lot more red---most of the tops of the wings should be red, tailfin mostly black:

It doesn't excuse the tail, where the red and the black could have been extended the whole way out, but I suppose the wings are the way they are to ensure robot-mode accuracy. (Likewise the gray instead of white, although I think they could have gotten away with a lighter gray).

Interestingly enough, you can can see some red on the part of the wing facing in toward her back on the CGI model, suggesting that the part facing out is actually the underside of the wing.  However, that's not how the toy transforms.

Likewise, you could get some more red in front of the wings, over the intakes and along the nose.  But some of the underside that should be white has to be red because it's her thighs.

3 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

PS----does the toy completely lack Decepticon logos?

I hadn't really noticed it until you mentioned it, but yes.  And Jeep Bee has no Autobot logos.

[David Hingtgen]

Shatter's wings are very much inside-out in robot mode---you can see the underside hardpoints, etc:

 

And red on the "inside", which are the top of the wings:

(based on these, Shatter has 4 insignias in jet mode---one on each side of nose, top of right wing*, and underside of left wing)

*that doesn't jive with the reference pic above, but on-screen canon trumps all

[sh9000]

 

[M'Kyuun]

If only this had been the route taken in 2007. Aside from Bee's pacifier face as an obvious Bayformer holdover, this whole sequence is full of awesome.  The '86 Movie Theme fits the action here, too. Almost makes you wonder if this is what the ILM guys were listening to when they created it.

[Major Focker]

that was perfect!

[derex3592]

that was epic!!! 

[anime52k8]

On 4/26/2020 at 12:23 PM, David Hingtgen said:

Needs a lot more red---most of the tops of the wings should be red, tailfin mostly black:

And of course, none of it is gunmetal-silver-grey. 

(it's not a screencap, but this is the final scheme they went with---even freeze-framing the movie doesn't help THAT much, but it's enough to tell that what actually shows up in the movie, is definitely this version, and not any others floating around out there)  

PS----does the toy completely lack Decepticon logos? 

I didn't realize she was a two-seat harrier. I also never realized how weird looking a two-seat harrier is.

[Dobber]

That Bumblebee edit was AWESOME! Dare I say, Gnarly even 

Chris

[lechuck]

MP-39+ Spinout getting a release in November.

A pity that no Decepticon derived counterpart exists, I think that would be something I could see myself buying.

[jenius]

Booo!

[David Hingtgen]

On ‎4‎/‎29‎/‎2020 at 3:15 PM, anime52k8 said:

I didn't realize she was a two-seat harrier. I also never realized how weird looking a two-seat harrier is.

Yup, trainer Harrier, TAV-8B specifically.  And if you think THAT looks weird, it's nothing compared to the Harrier 1 trainers:

You almost get the impression Hawker-Siddeley was just messing with people, daring them to "question their methods"...

And then they're like "let's see if Spain will still buy it, with this goofy tailfin..."

[Valkyrie Hunter D]

13 hours ago, lechuck said:

MP-39+ Spinout getting a release in November.

A pity that no Decepticon derived counterpart exists, I think that would be something I could see myself buying.

I'm holding off on this MP, but I'd be all-in for a Sunstreaker in police colors.

[Scyla]

1 hour ago, Valkyrie Hunter D said:

I'm holding off on this MP, but I'd be all-in for a Sunstreaker in police colors.

Like MP Cordon: 

[mikeszekely]

I like Cordon, but not $150 (or whatever he was going for at retail) like him.

As for Spinout, I'm glad he exists for the people who like to collect the Diaclone colors, but zero interest here.

[technoblue]

Cordon and Spin-out cost more than Sunstreaker, which stinks but is to be expected I guess. At least US shops are asking the same price for both of these Diaclone repaints and Hasbro Pulse is giving a small discount on Spin-out to help ease the pain.

Yeah, I dig the Diaclone colors. 

[Valkyrie Hunter D]

12 hours ago, Scyla said:

Like MP Cordon: 

Well shoot, that tells you how long I've been out of the TF loop.  Time for some window shopping.

[M'Kyuun]

New pics of MP Arcee are up on TFW2005. The face looks better than the first pics we saw, but everything else is pretty much the same. The chest I think I could live with, but I have to wonder if they couldn't have tried a little harder to compress that backpack. Rather unsightly. Her feet look weird, too. The 'I just moseyed into the saloon for a drink' pose isn't the most flattering. 

[technoblue]

I do like her alt mode. But alas, I think Arcee is turning out to be like Hot Rod where only that alt mode is looking to be accurate.

[tekering]

14 minutes ago, technoblue said:

I think Arcee is turning out to be like Hot Rod where only that alt mode is looking to be accurate.

Takara has been sacrificing the robot mode for the sake of the alt. mode since before they were called Transformers.