The Transformers Thread (licensed) Next

[Kuma Style]

[M'Kyuun]

2 hours ago, Kuma Style said:

Great action shot, Kuma. Not a criticism, but an honest question: have you ever given thought to editing any of your shots to eradicate stands and insert a background conducive to the action in the fore? Your photography is beautiful, and your staging of the figures evocative, so much so that I can't help but wonder how it'd look with some photo-edting. 

Regardless, thanks for sharing. 

[mikeszekely]

I passed on Generations Selects Star Convoy because it seemed kind of expensive for what it was, and what it was looked honestly more like Optimus with some extra bits on his chest and shoulders than actually Star Convoy.  But this...

...yeah, I might have to get that.

[Kuma Style]

On 3/30/2020 at 5:16 PM, M'Kyuun said:

Great action shot, Kuma. Not a criticism, but an honest question: have you ever given thought to editing any of your shots to eradicate stands and insert a background conducive to the action in the fore? Your photography is beautiful, and your staging of the figures evocative, so much so that I can't help but wonder how it'd look with some photo-edting. 

Regardless, thanks for sharing. 

Sometimes I do edit out stands, but it has to make sense. Right there in the shot you quoted the stand is covering Tarn's forearm cannon, so editing out the stand would have a picture with Tarn's canon cut and there was no way to place it so that the canon wasn't covered. So basically, when suggesting that you've gotta' look over the picture and imagine it without the stand first and mentally check out what's compromised from doing so.

[Kuma Style]

[M'Kyuun]

17 hours ago, Kuma Style said:

Sometimes I do edit out stands, but it has to make sense. Right there in the shot you quoted the stand is covering Tarn's forearm cannon, so editing out the stand would have a picture with Tarn's canon cut and there was no way to place it so that the canon wasn't covered. So basically, when suggesting that you've gotta' look over the picture and imagine it without the stand first and mentally check out what's compromised from doing so.

OK, I see what you're saying. What I see in my head, as opposed to what's physically possible in order to arrive at the same shot, are mutually exclusive things, and I'm probably thinking more in line with compositing a shot. I dunno; I've very little experience with photo-editing myself. I know, to make it look good, takes time and knowledge of editing programs beyond my rudimentary skills. Carry on as if I'd said nothing at all, sir.

That Drift is lovely.

[mikeszekely]

Looks like Target is going to be selling store-exclusive two-packs.  The first looks like a repackage of the Power of the Primes Decepticon clones, which is nice for those of us who didn't track them down the first time, as long as it's cheaper than importing the Takara box set.

The second and more interesting by far is that if you want Earth-mode Skywarp and Thundercracker, well, I hope this set won't be hard to come by...

[M'Kyuun]

God damn you Hasbro for exclusive shenanigans like this! I want those clones, but making them exclusive always opens the door to f#cking scalpers buying up the lot and then selling them at exorbitant prices, which I refuse to indulge on principle. A pox on scalpers, bunch of F-ing low-life greedy sons of bitches.

Taking a breath-- I wonder if Hasbro is going to make these simultaneously available on Pulse? If we're at the mercy of Target-only sales, it's gonna be a messy crapshoot to try and get a copy of these guys at MSRP. I so vehemently despise exclusives.  I appreciate the news, Mike, but it's bittersweet, as I'll likely never see them in stores, and who knows how availability will be online. It may as well be vapor.

[mikeszekely]

1 hour ago, M'Kyuun said:

God damn you Hasbro for exclusive shenanigans like this! I want those clones, but making them exclusive always opens the door to f#cking scalpers buying up the lot and then selling them at exorbitant prices, which I refuse to indulge on principle. A pox on scalpers, bunch of F-ing low-life greedy sons of bitches.

Taking a breath-- I wonder if Hasbro is going to make these simultaneously available on Pulse? If we're at the mercy of Target-only sales, it's gonna be a messy crapshoot to try and get a copy of these guys at MSRP. I so vehemently despise exclusives.  I appreciate the news, Mike, but it's bittersweet, as I'll likely never see them in stores, and who knows how availability will be online. It may as well be vapor.

I mean, it could be, but I was able to get the Siege Seeker 3-pack in stores, and it and the Micromasters weren't too difficult to find.  And as far as I know Redwing is still available online.  So there's hope.

But yeah, I'm going to be Hulk-level mad if I can't get the Skywarp and Thundercracker.

[sh9000]

You’d be Red Hulk-level mad as it is also relevant to Target exclusives.

[Kuma Style]

21 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

OK, I see what you're saying. What I see in my head, as opposed to what's physically possible in order to arrive at the same shot, are mutually exclusive things, and I'm probably thinking more in line with compositing a shot. I dunno; I've very little experience with photo-editing myself. I know, to make it look good, takes time and knowledge of editing programs beyond my rudimentary skills. Carry on as if I'd said nothing at all, sir.

That Drift is lovely.

Yea man. Always appreciate the suggestions and the like tho and thanks for the kind words.

And yea... the Flame Toys stuff at this point is pretty much pinnacle Transformers collecting. Just nailing it on all accounts.

[M'Kyuun]

4 hours ago, Kuma Style said:

YAnd yea... the Flame Toys stuff at this point is pretty much pinnacle Transformers collecting. Just nailing it on all accounts.

Except for transformation.  And that's kinda the sticking point for me- they're beautiful figures, but a high grade non-transforming Transformer is like a Lamborghini with the wheels removed and the wheel wells paneled over seamlessly. It's pretty, but the intrinsic point of the thing has been removed. Alas, to each his own.

5 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

I mean, it could be, but I was able to get the Siege Seeker 3-pack in stores, and it and the Micromasters weren't too difficult to find.  And as far as I know Redwing is still available online.  So there's hope.

But yeah, I'm going to be Hulk-level mad if I can't get the Skywarp and Thundercracker.

I'll keep my eye on Pulse, as I hope, like a lot of the NYTF stuff and some other exclusive stuff, it gets put on there as well. Pulse has turned out to be a pretty good resource, so I'm glad Hasbro created it. I still have to turn to other sources from time to time, but on the whole, I've filled out my Siege, and now Earthrise collection from Pulse. And yeah, I hear ya about the other two Seekers- whoever in marketing at Hasbro thinks limiting the sales of major character figures to a single retailer needs to be fired. I was lucky to finally find Ratchet at one of our Walgreens; I think I'd checked twice before with no luck. Fortunately, we have numerous Walgreens down town, but for those who lived in areas where there isn't one, and you really wanted Ratchet, you were almost certainly a sacrificial lamb for the fleecing online, and that's an artificial situation that could be mitigated by making these things widely available. This exclusivity stuff just encourages scalpers. I've never attended a TF con yet, but I wish the folks who do would bring this up at Hasbro's panels- it's just a crappy practice.

[Kuma Style]

3 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Except for transformation. 

Not a fair statement because it's not what they're going for and frankly as someone who prefers non-transforming homages at this point I'm extremely glad they didn't. They aesthetic compromises made for what I feel is an overdone gimmick just aren't worth it.

After 30 years of life I don't need an Optimus Prime homage to turn into a truck for the once or twice I'd bother with it to feel like Optimus. I want the most premium and aesthetically pleasing homage possible on my display.

[JB0]

And I go the other direction. Robot mode should see sacrifices for the transformation. Sick of Transformers with fake parts to achieve a certain look, and elaborate attempts to hide vehicle mode features for a cleaner robot.

I want robots made out of car parts, and that look like it. If I just want a cool robot, there's no shortage of them. Transformers are notable because they aren't just cool robots, and they should wear that on their sleeve, both figuratively and literally.

 

Fortunately, it is a franchise large enough to cater to everyone.

 

[Kuma Style]

8 minutes ago, JB0 said:

And I go the other direction. Robot mode should see sacrifices for the transformation. Sick of Transformers with fake parts to achieve a certain look, and elaborate attempts to hide vehicle mode features for a cleaner robot.

 

I'm not talking about what design style is better... at all. I'm talking about a proper homage to said design. If the original design has sacrifices made for the sake of alt. mode in terms of the robot mode design, it's what it is. All that's being talked about here though is the toy looking spot onto whatever it's supposed to be however it was designed.

[Scyla]

I just wish Flame Toys would come up with better designs for their joints. 
The knees of my Optimus where too loose for my likings straight out of the box.

[mikeszekely]

12 hours ago, Kuma Style said:

Not a fair statement because it's not what they're going for and frankly as someone who prefers non-transforming homages at this point I'm extremely glad they didn't. They aesthetic compromises made for what I feel is an overdone gimmick just aren't worth it.

After 30 years of life I don't need an Optimus Prime homage to turn into a truck for the once or twice I'd bother with it to feel like Optimus. I want the most premium and aesthetically pleasing homage possible on my display.

Absolutely still a fair statement.  You called Flame Toys "pinnacle Transformers collecting. Just nailing it on all accounts" and @M'Kyuun pointed out an area they're definitely not nailing.  Yes, it's true that's not what they're going for.  Yes, not transforming does allow for less visual compromises and better articulation, but for a lot of collectors the point of a Transformer is to transform.  As good as it looks I for one have zero interest in Flame Toys' Prime despite having a display just for Primes.  Now I'm not saying that your preference for a high-quality, visually stunning figure isn't valid just because it doesn't transform.  But by the same token you can't dismiss our disagreement on whether Flame Toys is "nailing it" as unfair just because our main point of contention was deliberate on their part.  For people like us, it's the difference between pinnacle and "yeah, it looks nice, but it's not for me."

Again, not saying they don't make a great product.  I'm sure they do.  And I'm not saying that every TF toy needs to transform.  But whether or not you think they're nailing it depends a lot on your criteria.

Edited April 4, 2020 by mikeszekely

[Kuma Style]

6 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

Absolutely still a fair statement.  You called Flame Toys "pinnacle Transformers collecting. Just nailing it on all accounts" and @M'Kyuun pointed out an area they're definitely not nailing.  Yes, it's true that's not what they're going for.  Yes, not transforming does allow for less visual compromises and better articulation, but for a lot of collectors the point of a Transformer is to transform.  As good as it looks I for one have zero interest in Flame Toys' Prime despite having a display just for Primes.  Now I'm not saying that your preference for a high-quality, visually stunning figure isn't valid just because it doesn't transform.  But by the same token you can't dismiss our disagreement on whether Flame Toys is "pinnacle" and "nailing it" as unfair just because our main point of contention was deliberate on their part.

How can you nail something you aren't doing? That's like me saying I feel like I nailed a test at school and someone telling me, "but you didn't wash the dishes." The transforming factor blatantly isn't a "must" when it comes to transformers toy homages and is a preferential factor at best. So no, it's not fair and I absolutely stand by what I said.

 

[mikeszekely]

1 minute ago, Kuma Style said:

How can you nail something you aren't doing?

I was editing my original post, but you replied before I finished.  But it comes down to what your criteria is for a Transformer.  If your criteria is "looks like the character" (which, even then, is debatable; Flame Toys' stuff is pretty stylized) then sure.  But if your criteria is "it transforms" then Flame Toys' is missing the mark.  Yeah, if I'm not happy you didn't wash the dishes when you aced your test when I'm your teacher that'd be weird and irrelevant.  But if I'm your roommate and I'm tired of you leaving cereal bowls in the sink its your test score that's irrelevant.  It's all a matter of perspective, and personal tastes.  Flame Toys is nailing it for you, because they're giving you what you want in a toy.  But if they're not nailing it for others our opinion isn't unfair just because the reason we don't think they're nailing it is a deliberate choice. 

So again, by all accounts Flame Toys makes a great product and if you're into what they're doing then great.  I'm genuinely glad that they're able to fill a need in the collector community.  They have many good qualities and they certainly look good in photos.  But they don't do the thing I want my Transformers to do, so for me they're not nailing it.

[sh9000]

I prefer Transformers over Non-Transformers.

[sqidd]

What is there to debate? Buy what you like. Don't worry about what other people do/don't like.

That said. I have more non transforming Transformers than ones that do. As a pedantic person I will conceded that there is a strong argument that a non transforming  "Transformer" is not a TRANSFORMer at all. A non transforming Transformer is just an Er.

[Kuma Style]

1 hour ago, sqidd said:

What is there to debate? 

Nothing. People in the fandom just feel that their preferences should dictate what others do and attempt to argue subjectives for reasons unknown.

I'm good on all of that. 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

your criteria

EXACTLY; so why are you even going back and forth with someone as if YOUR personal criteria matters in terms of what THEY consider to be x,y, or z? You brought up dishes being irrelevant; transformations are just as irrelevant to people who don't consider them a factor just like what other people are "into."

Edited April 4, 2020 by Kuma Style

[Kuma Style]

I've built a whopping one Flame Toys kit and if I had the time I'd do more. They're not quite as refined as Bandai MGs but there are some aspects like the joints style that I'd be more than ok with Bandai yanking from them.

[M'Kyuun]

22 hours ago, JB0 said:

Fortunately, it is a franchise large enough to cater to everyone.

Well stated. We're exceptionally fortunate that this franchise has continued to thrive 30+ years after its inception, with so much merchandising support from many companies, official and non, ongoing cartoons, comics, and statuary, tee shirts, etc ad nauseum. Having been in it from the very beginning, it's really an amazing thing, as out of the majority of other properties from my 80's childhood, and there were many, most are now defunct, but my favorite of them all has survived and continues to bring me joy through the various toy offerings available.  I believe the same is true for Kuma, who likes beautiful representations of these characters without the compromises that arise from including the transformation mechanics. I can appreciate that, even if it's not my personal preference. I see it as comparable to a high end statue or a even a professionally drawn bit of 2D artwork depicting these characters. Neither of them can transform, either, but I consider both on their artistic merits. Transformers from Metal Earth, Revoltech,  Flame Toys, and Takara, to name a few,  offer 3D representations of varying levels of quality and capability for the discerning collector, and I think having that range of product is fantastic, as it provides something for everyone, dependent only on preference and how deep your pockets are. Regardless of what anyone's Transformer preferences are, I just celebrate the fact that Transformers as a brand is still going strong, that there's a fervent dedicated fanbase supporting it, and that Hasbro, Takara, third parties, and other licensed companies are pumping out Transformer stuff the likes of which I could only dream of at thirteen when these characters burst onto my tv screen for the first time and filled me with awe and wonder that still resonates to this day. Whatever Transformers means to you, just be glad that it's still available. I thank Primus everyday. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by M'Kyuun

[Kuma Style]

[Scyla]

I would say the Flame Toys releases are the pinnacle of Transformers collectibles because the available transforming counterparts are mostly subpar or straight up trash.

MP-44 is good but then again he is riddled with issues that no Flame Toys release has. This is especially true for the fit and finish of the figure. The paint quality and sharpness of the sculpt is not up to speed compared to the Kuro Kara Kuri Prime.

I have lots of transforming Transformers but i have a hard time finding a piece that is objectively better than Flame Toys releases.

If someone would ask me what the best collectible of Optimus Prime is, the top 3 would probably be: Unimetal, Kuro Kara Kuri and MP-44 and I don‘t even like or particularly care for anything the Unimetal Prime does.

Of course if you say that Generations Drift is better than Flame Toys Drift because he transforms you can have this opinion. I for my part think we should accept greatness when we see it 

Edited April 5, 2020 by Scyla

[mikeszekely]

Well, Drift might not be a great example. I mean, I've read and re-read IDW's stuff and I'm still not a huge fan of the character.

But using Optimus as an example, I've got a Detolf full of Optimuses. A new Transforming Optimus comes out and I just can't help myself (well, excluding MP-44, because it's just not a $400 toy in book- I'd be willing to go to $200). But even if someone offered to sell me the Kuro Kara Kuri Optimus for under $100 and I'd pass.

So, yeah, maybe if paint and finish are the most important criteria for you (and nothing wrong if it is) then Flame Toys is the way to go. They are objectively high-quality figures. But, subjectively speaking, a toy that doesn't transform fails at being a Transformer. Nice to look at, but not for me.

I don't know, maybe I feel that way because I only collect Transformers? I mean, I've dabbled with other stuff but nothing else caught on. Maybe if you're more used to collecting other high end figures that don't transform it's easier to buy into high end figures of Transformers that don't transform?

[Kuma Style]

57 minutes ago, Scyla said:

I would say the Flame Toys releases are the pinnacle of Transformers collectibles because the available transforming counterparts are mostly subpar or straight up trash.

MP-44 is good but then again he is riddled with issues that no Flame Toys release has. This is especially true for the fit and finish of the figure. The paint quality and sharpness of the sculpt is not up to speed compared to the Kuro Kara Kuri Prime.

I have lots of transforming Transformers but i have a hard time finding a piece that is objectively better than Flame Toys releases.

If someone would ask me what the best collectible of Optimus Prime is, the top 3 would probably be: Unimetal, Kuro Kara Kuri and MP-44 and I don‘t even like or particularly care for anything the Unimetal Prime does.

Of course if you say that Generations Drift is better than Flame Toys Drift because he transforms you can have this opinion. I for my part think we should accept greatness when we see it 

A-freaking-men. There are just things that are so objectively better about the aforementioned pieces that it isn't even funny.

In the end though, I'm with @JB0 and @M'Kyuun's sentiment in that it's great that there are so many options for everyone. It's just the people attempting to argue preferences and the like gets tired.

[JB0]

My perspective:
I like simple transformations(I find them more fun), and I like the obvious nature of the resulting robots. You make a cool vehicle, then you figure out how to turn it into a robot.

I don't like when they include fake parts to enhance proportions, or fold wheels away into hidden compartments, etc. I like seeing wheels hanging off hips, doors sticking out of shoulders, and jet exhausts used as feet. They serve as a reminder that these are robots in disguise.  And if maybe their arms are too long because they're made from the entire side panel of a car... they aren't human anyways so who cares if they don't have human proportions? (I also like inhuman "anatomy" on my robots anyways) My ideal Transformers style is encapsulated well in the original toys and the Alternators line. Vehicle-first designs, and it is incredibly obvious what parts came from where on the car.

 

The Flame Toys figures look fantastic. They are pretty cool robots and I would not mind having them on my shelves. They just... aren't Transformers.

But I like cool robots of all creeds. Transformers are just the most readily available and affordable cool robots.

[Kuma Style]

7 minutes ago, JB0 said:

They just... aren't Transformers.

Like what you like but stuff like this is disingenuous at best. They're not only Transformers homages, but licensed ones at that. "Transformers" is a brand and not a verb. 

[Falcon]

1 hour ago, Scyla said:

I would say the Flame Toys releases are the pinnacle of Transformers collectibles because the available transforming counterparts are mostly subpar or straight up trash.

MP-44 is good but then again he is riddled with issues that no Flame Toys release has. This is especially true for the fit and finish of the figure. The paint quality and sharpness of the sculpt is not up to speed compared to the Kuro Kara Kuri Prime.

I have lots of transforming Transformers but i have a hard time finding a piece that is objectively better than Flame Toys releases.

If someone would ask me what the best collectible of Optimus Prime is, the top 3 would probably be: Unimetal, Kuro Kara Kuri and MP-44 and I don‘t even like or particularly care for anything the Unimetal Prime does.

Of course if you say that Generations Drift is better than Flame Toys Drift because he transforms you can have this opinion. I for my part think we should accept greatness when we see it 

Love the Flame Toys designs and agree that they're probably the best designed looking Transformers collectibles to date. But then again, because they don't transform, they do have it a bit easier than any that do. Really, Flame Toys would be better compared to Metal Build Gundams. Wonder where they stand when compared to that?

[JB0]

12 minutes ago, Kuma Style said:

Like what you like but stuff like this is disingenuous at best. They're not only Transformers homages, but licensed ones at that. "Transformers" is a brand and not a verb. 

In my head, I know that's true. Transformers™ is just whatever Hasbro and TakaraTomy see fit to put the label on.

But in my heart, it is wrong on a deeply fundamental level. Almost as fundamentally wrong as Beast Wars being Transformers.

[sumyumgoy]

Just recently found out about the Kuro Kara Kuri line and I'm in love!   Personally, I'm a sucker for articulation and prefer it over transformation.  I think it's really great that there are figures that cater to differing preferences.

My brothers both have extensive transformers collections and I'm almost certain the first things that they would say if they saw this would be, "Cool!  Does it transform?"   

 

[Scyla]

4 hours ago, Falcon said:

Love the Flame Toys designs and agree that they're probably the best designed looking Transformers collectibles to date. But then again, because they don't transform, they do have it a bit easier than any that do. Really, Flame Toys would be better compared to Metal Build Gundams. Wonder where they stand when compared to that?

I would say they are similar in some aspects like paint and materials used. And they are stylized versions of their original design. Both also come with their fair share of accessories and a stand (I prefer the MB stand though)

One the other hand they are totally different. Chemical Attack (the design team) takes great care into putting lots of engineering into how parts move on the toy. The joints on a Metal Build are much simpler in design most of the time.

Also all Kuro Kara Kuri toys come with a bunch of light-up features (that I don’t care about).

The Flame Toys stuff is also more expensive but that seems sensible to me since they are not Bandai and their toys are bulkier and have more features.

 

 

[sqidd]

7 hours ago, Scyla said:

I don‘t even like or particularly care for anything the Unimetal Prime does.

 

Well, you clearly need to be institutionalized! (jokes people)

My favorite and I believe pinnacle of the OP is:

-Ultimetal

-Flame toys

-Transform Element TE-01

Yeah, 2 out of 3 are non transforming. So we know where I come down on transforming vs non transforming. I absolutely get the "Transform or die" point of view though.