The Transformers Thread (licensed) Next

[VF5SS]

Other reviewers besides the two you mentioned:

• Veef from MW does Transformers reviews over at CollectionDX (mostly Masterpiece stuff).

And unlike the rest, I have sexy hands (according to one comment on my Rook review).

[JB0]

That said...I'm diggin' Galvatron, Blaster, Blurr, PM Prime (who were not actually Headmasters til now ), and perhaps an actual HM or two.

Well, Blurr was a targetmaster...

And Powermaster Prime came very close to being a headmaster. A headmaster and a powermaster. And a triple-changer. The headmaster robot would also be a triple-changer, with head, robot, and Roller modes.

Making him a Powerheadmaster double-triple-changer, I guess. He was perhaps a tad excessive.

In any case, they seem to have forgotten to put his head back on his body when they pulled him back down to Earth, so he's STILL got a snap-on head, it just doesn't transform into anything. A head-apprentice, if you will.

Edited February 16, 2016 by JB0

[M'Kyuun]

Well, Blurr was a targetmaster...

And Powermaster Prime came very close to being a headmaster. A headmaster and a powermaster. And a triple-changer. The headmaster robot would also be a triple-changer, with head, robot, and Roller modes.

Making him a Powerheadmaster double-triple-changer, I guess. He was perhaps a tad excessive.

In any case, they seem to have forgotten to put his head back on his body when they pulled him back down to Earth, so he's STILL got a snap-on head, it just doesn't transform into anything. A head-apprentice, if you will.

It's all a bunch of craziness.

But, I wonder why they didn't make a little transforming engine guy for PM Prime? I know they're all about headmasters now, but how tough would it have been to make one of those little dudes into a snap-on engine? I ask out out of curiosity, not interest. I was never crazy about any of the "______masters" . Target masters make the most sense to me, but even that is a gimmick I can live without, as the gun modes are always too bulky, b/c hey, it's a little folded robot. Just give me a decent looking bot with his own head, a normal gun, no snap-on motor, and a decent alt mode(s), and that's all I require out of a Transformer. The ability to transform is the gimmick that appealed to me from the very beginning, and remains so.

[anime52k8]

this question has been answered before I'm sure but; UW devastator vs Green Giant.

[mikeszekely]

Well, UW Devastator is much larger (Giant only comes up to Devy's waist). Depending on your tastes, that can be a pro or a con. It makes the individual bots approximately Deluxe-sized and the combined robot is about the same height as CW/UW Superion/Menasor/Defensor/Bruticus/Galvatron/Prime/everyone but Devastator.

UW Devastator is more animation accurate (excluding Mixmaster), with solid green limbs, green treads on Bonecrusher, a purple drum on Mixmaster, and purple treads on Scavenger. Giant has a lot of black worked into him.

UW's individual Constructicons are much more animation accurate. Giant's bots range from pretty close (their Mixmaster) to "what were they thinking?!" (their Long Haul). Giant's alt modes are pretty good, though.

As is the case with most 3rd-party offerings, Giant is more articulated and, arguably, higher-quality. For starters, while both have separate forearm pieces, Giant's don't have a big empty space where the hand flipped out of. Giant comes with two heads, one of which has a mouth than can open and a fold out visor so you can go with either two eyes or a single visor. Hook's crane can extend and fold over Giant's back, or detach to form a sort of melee weapon. And Giant can attach jackhammer bits on his wrists.

My take? UW (or even CW) Devastator is an imposing toy with better individual bots (especially if you replace Mixmaster with the Dr. Wu one), and I think he's worth buying. Giant comes with better articulation and more features, as befits a more expensive toy, but is best if you plan on keeping him in combined mode with HasTak combiners. I personally don't like their takes on the individual bots, and Giant's pretty small compared to newer 3P combiners.

[David Hingtgen]

For all the arguments over Devy's drum and treads, no one ever mentions the literally biggest color difference:

Animation Long Haul has a purple dump-bed, in combined mode.

[dizman]

Never owned Green Giant but UW Devastator is a ton of fun and looks great with all the extra little paint apps. Did Dr.Wu's mixmaster get released yet, I haven't seen much about out it since the initial reveal?

[mikeszekely]

For all the arguments over Devy's drum and treads, no one ever mentions the literally biggest color difference:

Animation Long Haul has a purple dump-bed, in combined mode.

I noticed that when I was watching Transformers: The Movie with my six month old this afternoon.

I'm willing to let that one slide, though, because it's on his back.

Never owned Green Giant but UW Devastator is a ton of fun and looks great with all the extra little paint apps. Did Dr.Wu's mixmaster get released yet, I haven't seen much about out it since the initial reveal?

As far as I know, it hasn't, but BBTS is still listing it for February.

[F360]

Ultimetal UM-03 Ultra Magnus

Armored up Ultra Magnus

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-news-rumors/1061521-ultimetal-um-03-ultra-magnus.html

[mikeszekely]

So, some good news on the Unite Warriors front... Hisashi Yuki has been posting pics of Blast Off on Twitter, and it looks like the tail fin does split in half, and it can be left on the back of his legs if you don't want to partsformer it onto his back.

[JB0]

It's still a shamefully hideous shuttle. Removable parts is FAR from the biggest issue Blastoff has.

Edited February 21, 2016 by JB0

[M'Kyuun]

It's still a shamefully hideous shuttle. Removable parts is FAR from the biggest issue Blastoff has.

QFT. At least make proper toes instead of having engine bells. Proper rounded OMS pods. Integrate the arms into the transformation...even the Gobots managed all of these in a much smaller figure. I realize it has to combine, but I'd expect a company with 30+ years experience designing transforming toys to do all these things and still make a nice shuttle TF. Guess not. There was a lot of settling for mediocre designs in this line.

I'm still getting UW Bruticus, but man I had such high expectations for how Takara's shuttle guy would look...and then this. I think it'd have looked better had they gone with a Vortex remold. Ah well, he may prove to be a fun little figure (all the CW figs are simple fun figures, really), but he'll still be ugly as sin in both modes.

[David Hingtgen]

It'd have looked a LOT better as a Vortex remold.

[mikeszekely]

QFT. At least make proper toes instead of having engine bells.

You guys do know that the engine feet are totally animation accurate, right? And if it's not obvious by the color differences on the other Combaticons, Takara is all about animation accuracy.

I realize it has to combine, but I'd expect a company with 30+ years experience designing transforming toys to do all these things and still make a nice shuttle TF. Guess not. There was a lot of settling for mediocre designs in this line.

I'm not sure why, at this point, this is even a surprise anymore. Is it possible to build a better transforming shuttle (even with HasTak's budgets)? Absolutely. Is it possible to make said shuttle a combiner that can be both an arm and a leg and compatible with the system used on however many combiners they've made in the UW/CW line? Probably. And yet, Blast Off's design is pretty consistent with the rest of line, especially the jets.

[M'Kyuun]

You're right about Blast Off being consistent with the rest of the line, but I can't help but wanting him to be better than that, somehow. Rise above the mediocrity, little shuttle robot!

Mike, you humble me with that pic of old school Blast Off. I had no idea the original design looked like that. It still looks like crap, but in all fairness to Takara, the UW toy bears a decent resemblance to the G1 art (except the original managed to integrate the arms better, and had rounded OMS pods in shuttle mode- it's fair criticism, methinks).

[David Hingtgen]

Yes, Takara usually is toon-accurate----Except in this case, where Takara seems to be using the same tan as Warbotron, and not at all the very deep dark brown he should be.

Seriously, Blast-Off just keeps getting lighter and lighter. He's basically copper in FoC.

[JB0]

You guys do know that the engine feet are totally animation accurate, right?

I love his feet. It's just... such a lazy vehicle mode, of a vehicle I'm really fond of.

[mikeszekely]

Rise above the mediocrity, little shuttle robot!

It's just... such a lazy vehicle mode, of a vehicle I'm really fond of.

Hey, I'm not saying you shouldn't demand higher quality... it's pretty much the reason 3P exists.

I'm just saying you think you guys would know better by now than to expect it from a non-MP Has/Tak toy. Especially a deluxe.

[M'Kyuun]

Hey, I'm not saying you shouldn't demand higher quality... it's pretty much the reason 3P exists.

I'm just saying you think you guys would know better by now than to expect it from a non-MP Has/Tak toy. Especially a deluxe.

Well, at least the CW/UW toys...they are simple on purpose for high reuse of molds. I get that, just don't always like it.

The mainline Generations deluxe toys are a little different; they are usually more complex, better designed toys, which makes me glad this combiner line has about run its course. It's cool that Has/Tak did it; I'm sure there are a lot of happy TF collectors out there who finally got the combiner team(s) of choice. Despite my misgivings about Blast Off in particular, and the overall simplicity and oft lazy designs in general, I'm very happy with my Menasor, and look forward to getting Bruticus in a few months. I really wish the individual Constructicons had been better designed; even the UW versions just didn't do it for me, as most of their individual bot modes were sacrificed to make Devastator better. I sat on the fence about getting the UW version, but after looking at their bot modes, I just couldn't bring myself to commit. I hope a better official version will be made in the next 10 years.

Honestly, the 2007-2011 live action movie toys spoiled me; Takara demonstrated what extraordinary levels of engineering they can achieve in TF toys. Like 'em or not, they were amazingly complex and ingenious toys, and I lament that the line has taken a gradual 180 degree turn. It's like enjoying a Renaissance period and then segueing into a Dark Age. The knowledge of what has come before influences my opinion of what's out now and coming, and I can't help but feel a bit of disappointment. It doesn't help that I have probably 200+ TFs on display in my mancave, from Animated, G1, CHUG, Prime, Bayformers, Binaltech, Star Wars TFs, and a few RiD figs, which makes it easy for me to compare them to each other. So, knowing what they've already achieved, I kinda do expect Takara to do better, whether it's realistic to do so or not. I want them to do better b/c they already have, and b/c I really love well designed transforming toys.

Edited February 22, 2016 by M'Kyuun

[JB0]

... I'm sure there are a lot of happy TF collectors out there who finally got the combiner team(s) of choice.

They didn't give me a high-quality Monstructor!

Honestly, the 2007-2011 live action movie toys spoiled me; Takara demonstrated what extraordinary levels of engineering they can achieve in TF toys. Like 'em or not, they were amazingly complex and ingenious toys, and I lament that the line has taken a gradual 180 degree turn. It's like enjoying a Renaissance period and then segueing into a Dark Age.

They seem to be in an over-reacting phase right now. The toys got too complex, so neither kids nor adults could figure out WTF they were supposed to be doing(the complete farce of an instruction sheet they typically include often causing more questions than it answers)... cue kneejerk reaction that if the toys are too complex then they have to be reduced to one-step transformations.

[M'Kyuun]

They didn't give me a high-quality Monstructor!

They seem to be in an over-reacting phase right now. The toys got too complex, so neither kids nor adults could figure out WTF they were supposed to be doing(the complete farce of an instruction sheet they typically include often causing more questions than it answers)... cue kneejerk reaction that if the toys are too complex then they have to be reduced to one-step transformations.

Those are extreme examples; I was talking about the current CW line, which is also the Generations line for all intents and purposes. Leader class Ultra Magnus, Jetfire, and Megatron all have much more simplified transformations compared to previous leader class figures. That simplification runs through all the class sizes. One need only look at leader Optimus from Revenge of the Fallen, probably the pinnacle of complexity in a in a retail mainline toy, and set it next to the aforementioned current batch of leader class toys to get a sense of the decline in engineering. I needn't mention the drop in quality due to methods of reducing material and manufacturing costs, which unfortunately has even affected the MP line. I hope you're right about the 'kneejerk' part, that perhaps Hasbro's new 4-tier collector classification system will also mean a restoration, at least in part, of the better build and engineering quality we've seen in past figures, esp in the Generations line. I don't include the MP line in my statement, as that has always been geared toward the Japanese teen and up collector, and there's really no reason for them to change what they're doing. The baseline for quality has already been set. In the end, I just hope the quality of the Generations line continues to improve.

[mikeszekely]

JB0 might be exaggerating, but he's not wrong, and your example of RotF Leader Prime is an example that strengthens his case. Yes, for adult collectors it was one of the best representations of movie Prime, practically just a few paint apps and accessories from being a movie-line MP. But, arguably more so that the Generations line, the movie toys were aimed at kids, kids who found Leader Prime to complicated to figure out. Heck, a lot of parents who weren't themselves into transformers struggled with him.

[M'Kyuun]

JB0 might be exaggerating, but he's not wrong, and your example of RotF Leader Prime is an example that strengthens his case. Yes, for adult collectors it was one of the best representations of movie Prime, practically just a few paint apps and accessories from being a movie-line MP. But, arguably more so that the Generations line, the movie toys were aimed at kids, kids who found Leader Prime to complicated to figure out. Heck, a lot of parents who weren't themselves into transformers struggled with him.

I concede your point, to a point. I must confess having had issues transforming a few of the movieline toys, to the point where I finally had to consult the instructions out of fear of breaking the toy in question, something I very seldom ever do with any of my transforming toys, including my valks. The whole 3D mechanical puzzle system has always come easy to me. The same cannot be said for everyone, and I make the case that a lot of parents, and their kids, may not have a natural prowess for the sort of puzzle solving inherent in transforming toys. For some of those, the current CW toys may even pose a challenge. But most parents aren't TF collectors, and to them, a toy is just that, and they make purchases based on that limited way of thinking. When little Johnny can't figure out his toy, it's the toy manufacturer's fault for making a toy that's too complicated, rather than considering that Johnny may not have an aptitude for a toy of that nature. I'm sure it happens more often than not, esp the with the current 'no kid left behind' mentality that coddles kids rather than pushing them. My own niece is a prime example of this, but I digress. Anyway, I'm definitely not saying that TF's need to be at the Bayformer level of complexity; while cool, they were sometimes a little too complex...I concede. I think they hit a good level of build quality and complexity with the CHUG line until just around 2014 or so, when they started to radically simplify the toys in terms of both build quality and complexity. I'm talking about just the leader, voyager, deluxe, and legend/legion class figs, as they are all I collect. We didn't see large hollow areas near as much in those figs, and wheels were still attached with pins rather than the snap-on things we get now. I could continue, but all these things are known. Anyway, this was a long diatribe to basically say transforming toys may not come easily to everyone, even if they have an interest in them, and the toys shouldn't necessarily be oversimplified to cater to the few that have difficulty with them. Somehow that still sounds dickish, but that's not my intent.

[NeoverseOmega]

Transformers always seemed cyclical to me. After G2 the Beast Wars line started out with robots that auto transformed with one touch, but over time got to the point where you had seventeen to twenty step transformations - Tigerhawk and Dragon-Megatron for example. Then Beast Machines failed hard, and they went back to very simple car-formers with pretty basic transformations. Then they started to release things like classics and masterpiece and the complexity started ratcheting itself up again culminating in ROTF Optimus (which I agree, with better paint apps and a few improvements that they could have accomplished easily by removing the voice gimmicks, would be a masterpiece level figure). Now the cycle has shifted to an overall downswing in complexity and ambition. However, I think Has/tak is starting to realize that in many ways it's OLDER fans that are the future of Transformers and all they have to do is plant the seed in childhood to continue the cycle. Heh, they could succeed by having a cool show or movie with simple toys that kids can play with but be subtly disappointed in by seeing how much the toy simplifies the character (so many toys I had as a kid were fun to play with but even then I could see that steps were skipped and shortcuts taken - particularly with the kamawori inspired designs), knowing that when they grow up they'll jump at a "masterpiece" version as soon as the nostalgia starts striking.

I would also like to see them handle more unique assemblers though - as much as I prefer the idea of transformable machines to living animals the Beast Wars assemblers were so unique and different compared to the usual "Go-Lion" arrangement that I'd love to see them revisited in a way that uses modern toy technology to do a little more justice to the individual units - or at least has the guts to use, say, a single robot that splits into both arms, or forms both the head and wings. Am I the only one that gets kind of bored with the "assembly line" approach to assemblers?

Edited February 22, 2016 by NeoverseOmega

[anime52k8]

Does anyone else remember Magnaboss? because I do. That was an awesome beast wars toy and an awesome combiner. They should totally do an MP of that.

another random question: Is there currently, or is there going to be, a Japanese version of CW Sky lynx that's in any way different from the US version?

[David Hingtgen]

Tripredacus is almost exactly what you ask for in a combiner. And is a nightmare to transform back into component beast modes.

[NeoverseOmega]

Yup, I rather liked both Magnaboss and Tripredacus -although I'll agree getting that beetle back together could be a pain! I'd love to see them revisited with a masterpiece mentality. Heh, and magnets. I suspect that would be less frustrating than the clips they used. It wouldn't have been so bad if the ball joints didn't keep popping apart . . . . .

[dizman]

Does anyone else remember Magnaboss? because I do. That was an awesome beast wars toy and an awesome combiner. They should totally do an MP of that.

another random question: Is there currently, or is there going to be, a Japanese version of CW Sky lynx that's in any way different from the US version?

So far there is no word on a UW Sky Lynx but the rumor seem to be that he will be retooled into Leozack for the possible Liokaiser. The only proof of this is the artwork for Liokaiser that was floating around a few months ago.

[M'Kyuun]

I have Magnaboss, but I don't think I have Tripedacus. Most of my BW figs are boxed up and I haven't seen them in some time. The BW combiners were interesting and unique. I personally wouldn't really be interested in MP versions, but then again I might be tempted if they turned out really well. As it is, having seen MP Primal, I think Takara have their hands full just getting the basic robot to beast down while trying to hide all the bot parts in beast mode.

I couldn't remember Tripedacus, so I watched a vid of a rather frustrated Brit trying to get the three parts transformed and connected. It looks like a squirrely thing, rather fidgety, esp those multi-jointed lobster claws-cum- robot legs.

[JB0]

JB0 might be exaggerating, but he's not wrong, and your example of RotF Leader Prime is an example that strengthens his case. Yes, for adult collectors it was one of the best representations of movie Prime, practically just a few paint apps and accessories from being a movie-line MP. But, arguably more so that the Generations line, the movie toys were aimed at kids, kids who found Leader Prime to complicated to figure out. Heck, a lot of parents who weren't themselves into transformers struggled with him.

I was indeed taking the extreme example for effect. They simplified across the line, with the one-step stuff being simply the most obvious.

Personally, I think better instructions would've gone a long way towards fixing many of the perceived problems. So many of those complex toys had instructions with unshaded line-drawings at locked right angles and no words, which aggravated the problem greatly.

Many of them I STILL don't know what they were actually trying to convey. I only ever got the toy transformed by ignoring the instructions and just manhandling parts until they went where they were supposed to go.

[Scyla]

I concede your point, to a point. I must confess having had issues transforming a few of the movieline toys, to the point where I finally had to consult the instructions out of fear of breaking the toy in question, something I very seldom ever do with any of my transforming toys, including my valks. The whole 3D mechanical puzzle system has always come easy to me. The same cannot be said for everyone, and I make the case that a lot of parents, and their kids, may not have a natural prowess for the sort of puzzle solving inherent in transforming toys. For some of those, the current CW toys may even pose a challenge. But most parents aren't TF collectors, and to them, a toy is just that, and they make purchases based on that limited way of thinking. When little Johnny can't figure out his toy, it's the toy manufacturer's fault for making a toy that's too complicated, rather than considering that Johnny may not have an aptitude for a toy of that nature. I'm sure it happens more often than not, esp the with the current 'no kid left behind' mentality that coddles kids rather than pushing them. My own niece is a prime example of this, but I digress. Anyway, I'm definitely not saying that TF's need to be at the Bayformer level of complexity; while cool, they were sometimes a little too complex...I concede. I think they hit a good level of build quality and complexity with the CHUG line until just around 2014 or so, when they started to radically simplify the toys in terms of both build quality and complexity. I'm talking about just the leader, voyager, deluxe, and legend/legion class figs, as they are all I collect. We didn't see large hollow areas near as much in those figs, and wheels were still attached with pins rather than the snap-on things we get now. I could continue, but all these things are known. Anyway, this was a long diatribe to basically say transforming toys may not come easily to everyone, even if they have an interest in them, and the toys shouldn't necessarily be oversimplified to cater to the few that have difficulty with them. Somehow that still sounds dickish, but that's not my intent.

I'm of two minds about that. While I'm all in for awesome transformation and I think that even the current MP could have done better in terms of engineering (i.e more steps to transforms Tracks backpack or Ironhides belly into more accurate forms) I also had terrible problems as a child with transforming one of the G2 jets (the blue F-104 Starfighter). The way the torso transforms with turning the center piece 180 degrees while simultaneously rotating and flipping down the cockpit to form the chest was too much for my small child brain. Small children just doesn't have the fines in their fine motor skills to handle something that is too complex like some of the movie toys and the entries in the CHUG line. Especially since Hasbro stated that their market for the 10-14 year old kids is almost non existent right now because they are all playing video games and are not interested in toys. True the share of toy sales for collectors gone up but that probably means that Hasbro sold less toys to kids and thus you can see an increase in the collectors percentage.

I think Hasbro wants to sell toys to kids and thus you get the simplification you see in the RiD line and the Rescue Bots. And Kids that are younger than 10 years can't deal with toys of the complexity of a CHUG or RotF movie toy.

There are a number of other reasons why Hasbro has simplified the toys. First to make a line like Combiner Wars financial viable you have to reduce the number of molds and complexity of parts to have 6 triple changers in one wave. Secondly the labor costs and material costs when up around the time the FoC line was released. Since Hasbro wasn't willing to raise the price of their toys to compensate for that they had to come up with ways to reduce the number of parts and material uses for those parts. Which resulted in FoC Grimloc.

I think there is money in the collectors Market but you need a special line for them and I don't think the big US retailers make enough money out of them to take them to their shelfs so Hasbro has to cater to the kids as well.

[David Hingtgen]

I couldn't remember Tripedacus, so I watched a vid of a rather frustrated Brit trying to get the three parts transformed and connected. It looks like a squirrely thing, rather fidgety, esp those multi-jointed lobster claws-cum- robot legs.

The lobster component is by far the easiest section of Tripredacus to deal with.

[M'Kyuun]

I think there is money in the collectors Market but you need a special line for them and I don't think the big US retailers make enough money out of them to take them to their shelfs so Hasbro has to cater to the kids as well.

I agree absolutely, and until now, I think that market was largely ignored by Hasbro, who I think just wanted to target kids, specifically boys. Their opening presentation at NY Toy Fair showed a shift in their thinking, as it relates to market: they established a 4-tier collector fanbase towards which to target specific toylines, and acknowledged that adult TF sales, by their estimation, was 30%. I imagine it's a greater percentage than that, but it's a promising start towards seeing more complex and sophisticated TF toys intended for adult collectors. Granted, Takara's way ahead of them, but I hope as time goes on, and a clear demand is manifested by virtue of all these Cons and Toy fairs, Hasbro will explore the adult collector market with more enthusiasm, and hopefully good returns on their investments. Hopefully, too, the MP line will see more domestic releases, and more than just overpriced limited runs of specific MP figs at TRU. I suppose the big sell will be to the retailers, though. Hasbro needs to convince the Big Box stores that there's a market.

The lobster component is by far the easiest section of Tripredacus to deal with.

Watching the vid, I got the sense that it was a little too complicated for the reviewer. It looked fairly straightforward to me...it was very clear how the component parts went together. The final result was pretty spindly; I wasn't crazy about the 'hands'. I think a more experienced reviewer would have handled the toy more deftly, and provided a less frustrated review. I'll say this; it's a unique combiner, and I like the three component bots' alt modes. Crustaceans, and insects by extension, make great subjects for translation into mechanical creatures.

[derex3592]

Has MP Shockwave come out yet? Anybody getting him?

[kanedaestes]

He comes out in March. Late March