The Transformers Thread (licensed) Next

[David Hingtgen]

Bruticus is probably the one combiner I'd most want Takara to do, vs 3P. Why? They are hell-bent on toon-accuracy. Bruticus works so much better in toon form than toy form. Why? Chest plate. On the original toy, it's a big silver piece that does nothing else. But in the toon---BlastOff splits in half, with his wings and upper fuselage forming the chestplate, and the rest of him forming the right arm. It even helps with the over-discussed "scale" issue----by splitting up his mass, he can actually be a rather large shuttle toy, yet still scale with the others in combined form. He would be larger than all the other limbs in vehicle mode, possibly rivalling or even exceeding Onslaught, but it wouldn't be an issue if half his mass makes up the combined torso's front half. (robot mode may cause some issues, but we've seen Takara practically mass-shift MP bots before)

Yet no 3P company has tried to do the "solves so many problems, and looks so cool" toon version of Bruticus----they all follow the toy. Normally I'm all for toy-accurate in most things (except for S3 characters' coloring, then it's toon all the way). But for Bruticus? Toon-accurate transformation please, with half of BlastOff for the chestplate.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

just got in from MA and 2x mp-10 from NY was delivered to my doorman. i'll take it out when i get settled in.

[mikeszekely]

If you were waiting for the Takara release, Unite Warriors Devastator will be 25,000 yen, or BBTS is listing it for $219.99.

That's not as much as I was expecting, but still not worth it (for me, anyway) for elbows and individual weapons for guys who will spend 99% as a chunk of a gestalt.

[vlenhoff]

Does this mean the hasbro version won't have elbows and individual guns? I'm cancelling my amazon order then...

[Valkyrie Hunter D]

Yes on the elbows. Dunno about the guns.

[mikeszekely]

Does this mean the hasbro version won't have elbows and individual guns? I'm cancelling my amazon order then...

On the Hasbro version, Scrapper doesn't have any elbow articulation, and Hasbro's reasoning was that it was intentional to provide better support for Devastator. Also, Long Haul's elbows bend inward, but not forward. I don't know what they were thinking there. As for individual guns, AFAIK, only Scavenger and Bonecrusher have individual weapons, as they're needed to become Devastator's forearms.

For some fans, even before it was announced that Takara was going to give them individual guns an fix the elbows (and touch up some details, and give Devy a sliding visor), those were deal breakers. Others, like myself, have sort of shrugged and said "yeah, but where else are you going to get a combiner bigger than MakeToys Giant for $150?" Some of the people in the first camp will stick with Giant or Hercules, wait (forever) for an MP, or get the Takara one, and I understand and respect why they'd do that. Me personally, I don't feel like spending $500 (Giant/Herc), I don't feel like waiting until December (Takara Devastator), and I don't think guns and elbows on bots who are almost never going to be in a mode where they need guns or elbows is worth a $50-$70 + shipping premium, especially with Perfect Effect already teasing upgrade kits that seem to address the elbows, Devastator's head, Mixmaster's cab, Hook's hook, Scavenger's shovel, and Devastator's hands.

[M'Kyuun]

Well, the elbows on the Takara versions look like afterthoughts, anyway. For Voyagers, the majority of the individual bots are serious steps back. Whether or not you liked the overall aesthetics, the third party Constructicons were all superior designs, which is a shame, since this was an awesome opportunity for has/Tak to roll out a really impressive set of figures. Instead we get Playskool level articulation on 4 of the figs. We fans have been waiting since 2007 for official CHUG Constructicons, and the majority are sub-par by today's standards. Disappointing.

Edit: Mikeszekely's list of issues already being addressed by a third party just adds fuel to my argument that these are not the Constructicons we've been waiting for. It makes me sad, too, b/c I've long looked forward to a Classics style Devy, with both gestalt and individual bots designed to today's articulation standards. I actually expected them to be Deluxes, so the fact that they're all voyagers just increases my incredulity and disappointment.

Edited July 2, 2015 by M'Kyuun

[mikeszekely]

Well, the elbows on the Takara versions look like afterthoughts, anyway. For Voyagers, the majority of the individual bots are serious steps back. Whether or not you liked the overall aesthetics, the third party Constructicons were all superior designs, which is a shame, since this was an awesome opportunity for has/Tak to roll out a really impressive set of figures. Instead we get Playskool level articulation on 4 of the figs. We fans have been waiting since 2007 for official CHUG Constructicons, and the majority are sub-par by today's standards. Disappointing.

Edit: Mikeszekely's list of issues already being addressed by a third party just adds fuel to my argument that these are not the Constructicons we've been waiting for. It makes me sad, too, b/c I've long looked forward to a Classics style Devy, with both gestalt and individual bots designed to today's articulation standards. I actually expected them to be Deluxes, so the fact that they're all voyagers just increases my incredulity and disappointment.

I get the disappointment, in the sense that the 3Ps are objectively better. But, like I already said, the 3Ps are around $500, Titan Devy is $150 despite being bigger. Realistically, neither Hasbro nor Takara was going to compete with 3P in their targeted price ranges. It's sort of like, if you've got the money for a BMW then go for it, but if you buy a Toyota Corolla you don't expect it to match a BMW in quality. Disappointing, maybe, but CW Devy is pretty much what I expected: six Voyagers with all the compromises that go along with Hasbro's recent Voyagers, plus a few more to make up the for the fact that they not only have to be robots and construction vehicles but also the component pieces of a combiner that MP-10 is only crotch-high to. And like I said, Giant/Herc are better, but for $150 CW Devy is good enough. Just like a Corolla.

[M'Kyuun]

It's all in what you like, I suppose. But at the very least, if Takara can put proper elbows on the figs, why can't Hasbro release those versions as well? For a brand they love to boast about supporting and protecting, they sure seem willing to settle for second best for their market, while Takara regularly attempt to make improvements for their market. I'm not sure what the pricing difference is comparatively, but I doubt the Japanese fans are paying much more than the North American fans. Hasbro's far more concerned about their bottom line than putting out a quality product.

[RD Blade]

According to the pre-order I saw, the price difference is about $90. Most speculators were pretty much spot on.

[dapro]

This guy is here!

[sixtybucks]

I had preordered Hasbro's Devy on Amazon and I just changed it for Takara's. To me the price difference is well worth it and I don't mind waiting for Dec. To me there's a bit more than just elbows, it's also the visor/eyes head, Hook also has improved elbows, the rims are painted, the forearms and hands are better finished in combined mode, the individual guns... I think I would have to be be hunting 3Ps all over the place and the total time, money and shipping for all these would not be worth it. It's a lot of things I don't have to worry when I open the box in Dec. How much is going to be the total price of a fully upgraded CW Devy anyway?

Deep down I just know that if I get the Hasbro I would be kicking myself forever for not going for TT's, but that's just me. I love the G1 look combined mode and robot mode have, none of the third parties gave me that vibe, none of them take me back to my childhood. And they are super expensive! Again, just my opinion.

And regarding manufacturers, I think Hasbro has done an awesome job here, it's a terrific figure at an excellent price, any kid would go crazy over this. It's a reasonable toy. Any parent can see themselves giving this one to their kids. I hope they sell a ton!

Also, sure, robot/alt modes don't look voyager quality but that's fine by me, the box says "Devastator" after all and I understand why certain things had to be done in certain ways to nail the combined look. But I think they have the right balance between the simple cartoon look and some level of realistic detailing. The only one I'm not really happy with is Mixmaster... I'd rather have the cab in the conventional place with double wheels in the front.

[vlenhoff]

^ ^ ^ How did you change it for takara's?

And thank you so much for the replies. I really want to make a dirty custom out of this. If the Hasbro has proper elbows, I guess i'll keep my order. I dont think it matters that much anyway, but I want to get something good. Maybe I should change my order to the takara version.

[sixtybucks]

^ ^ ^ How did you change it for takara's?

And thank you so much for the replies. I really want to make a dirty custom out of this. If the Hasbro has proper elbows, I guess i'll keep my order. I dont think it matters that much anyway, but I want to get something good. Maybe I should change my order to the takara version.

I cancelled it and preordered on BBTS

[vlenhoff]

I cancelled it and preordered on BBTS

Thanks for the quick reply. Someone confirmed proper elbows, so i might just keep my preorder.

[sixtybucks]

Thanks for the quick reply. Someone confirmed proper elbows, so i might just keep my preorder.

No problem, what do you mean by "confirmed proper elbows"? are you saying someone said that Hasbro's Devy has elbows on everyone?

[vlenhoff]

TT Devy has redesigned/better elbow joints! Now to keep my Hasbro Devy pre-order or get the Unite Devy....

http://news.tfw2005.com/2015/06/20/tokyo-toy-show-transformers-panel-roundup-masterpiece-ironhide-unitw-warriors-devastator-more-293880

I stand corrected. I had the impression hasbro's devi would now have elbows.... I guess I'll cancel my order.... this sucks...

[M'Kyuun]

Bruticus is probably the one combiner I'd most want Takara to do, vs 3P. Why? They are hell-bent on toon-accuracy. Bruticus works so much better in toon form than toy form. Why? Chest plate. On the original toy, it's a big silver piece that does nothing else. But in the toon---BlastOff splits in half, with his wings and upper fuselage forming the chestplate, and the rest of him forming the right arm. It even helps with the over-discussed "scale" issue----by splitting up his mass, he can actually be a rather large shuttle toy, yet still scale with the others in combined form. He would be larger than all the other limbs in vehicle mode, possibly rivalling or even exceeding Onslaught, but it wouldn't be an issue if half his mass makes up the combined torso's front half. (robot mode may cause some issues, but we've seen Takara practically mass-shift MP bots before)

Yet no 3P company has tried to do the "solves so many problems, and looks so cool" toon version of Bruticus----they all follow the toy. Normally I'm all for toy-accurate in most things (except for S3 characters' coloring, then it's toon all the way). But for Bruticus? Toon-accurate transformation please, with half of BlastOff for the chestplate.

While I doubt Takara will do anything as elaborate as making Blastoff become both chest and arm, I do suspect they'll make a proper shuttle mode for him as an arm. Hopefully their Swindle will be a Hummer as well. However, you're right; Takara pay far more attention to cartoon accuracy, so they may pull off some cool engineering to make him how he appeared in the show. I think that's really the difference in mindset between Hasbro and Takara: Hasbro just wants to sell a toy, while Takara is more interested in selling a replica. Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing Takara's take on Bruticus.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

anime export has small head devastator for 17500yen +shipping

http://www.anime-export.com/product/26544

[dapro]

anime export has small head devastator for 17500yen +shipping

http://www.anime-export.com/product/26544

After shipping, probably $10 cheaper than TFsource.

[mikeszekely]

I stand corrected. I had the impression hasbro's devi would now have elbows.... I guess I'll cancel my order.... this sucks...

Not that sixtybucks doesn't have a point with the other minor Takara tweaks, but you could still get the Hasbro version and get the Perfect Effect PC-07 upgrade that's been announced. New elbows for Scrapper, Hook, Mixmaster, and Long Haul, all with wrist swivels, and Long Haul's add some mass which makes his proportions look less goofy IMHO, plus individual weapons for all six (although it does look like Devy's forearms and chest plate do become weapons).

They're also making a PC-06 upgrade with an improved cab for Mixmaster, a new, bigger shovel for Scavenger, an add-on to make Hook's crane boom extendable, new forearms and hands for Devastator, some kind of gear to make Devy's shoulders a little broader, and new "Prowlvelstator" heads.

I might go this route, personally. PC-07 isn't as necessary, since I don't plan on my Constructicons not being Devastator 99% of the time, but I do like the way those forearms look on Long Haul. The improved Devy hands and cab for Mixmaster alone are making PC-06 really tempting even for the Takara version.

[treatment]

Got my Takara MP-10 re-relase early this week, so...

[vlenhoff]

Ha, i just cancelled my order... How certain are we about these upgrades?

[mikeszekely]

Ha, i just cancelled my order... How certain are we about these upgrades?

They're definitely coming. Perfect Effect has already done PC-01 to PC-05, which are upgrade parts for Menasor, Superion, and black/purple/white fists/feet that can be used with any of the Combiner Wars/Unite Warriors combiners besides Devastator. The only questions are really when and how much.

[Dangard Ace]

PE stuff looks good. I couldn't give two ....stones... about the Prowlestator head. I may end up selling that off.

[Vermillion One]

Devastator looks like a knock off, with plastic molded tires, lack of articulation, and giant gaps in the individual bots limbs. It it were a 3rd party product it would be getting trashed on the forums.

[mikeszekely]

Devastator looks like a knock off, with plastic molded tires, lack of articulation, and giant gaps in the individual bots limbs. It it were a 3rd party product it would be getting trashed on the forums.

Sure it would be. It also would have been designed with a higher price tag and without the constraints of being a mass-market toy in the US.

[Vermillion One]

Define mass market, there will clearly be more volume produced from the Hasbro product, but with considerable more overhead throughout their supply chain. Even the most highly integrated big box stores will not allocate space to this item through Christmas. Its poorly conceived and executed.

[Mechapilot77]

Devastator looks like a knock off, with plastic molded tires, lack of articulation, and giant gaps in the individual bots limbs. It it were a 3rd party product it would be getting trashed on the forums.

of course it would because its not in the same market space....AT ALL. hastak devy is bing marketed towards kids....likley kids of original g1 fans. the parents buy it for the kids and also themselbes...or maybe just for themselves because hey...it actually does look like the devastator we grew up watching on tv. Also $140 is really easy to swallow compared to $500 especially when its a ton larger. yes, each individual bot could have been better and combind mode has several issues too but again $140 for an 18" devastator. also those voyager limbs while simple...seem larger than omst voayagers...almost in the old ultra class size so the price seems to make sense. i have herc with upgrades and my freind has giant...neither is closer to my mental image of devastator than this...and each is much much smaller...heck hastak's is DOUBLE the height of MT's giant.

[Sandman]

Finally got a MP-10. Looks good but i dunno. I'm not sure i like it better than Mp-01. Not sure why. The gun sucks though. I could've done without the fold up gimmick. They made it too small. I'll definitely get the kfc gun. Also the index finger of the the right hand always falls outs out. Is this common or did i get a bad one. Can't complain about the price though. $125 compares pretty favorably compared to the KO version which cost almost as much and doesn't come with the trailer.

[mikeszekely]

of course it would because its not in the same market space....AT ALL. hastak devy is bing marketed towards kids....likley kids of original g1 fans. the parents buy it for the kids and also themselbes...or maybe just for themselves because hey...it actually does look like the devastator we grew up watching on tv. Also $140 is really easy to swallow compared to $500 especially when its a ton larger. yes, each individual bot could have been better and combind mode has several issues too but again $140 for an 18" devastator. also those voyager limbs while simple...seem larger than omst voayagers...almost in the old ultra class size so the price seems to make sense. i have herc with upgrades and my freind has giant...neither is closer to my mental image of devastator than this...and each is much much smaller...heck hastak's is DOUBLE the height of MT's giant.

I keep saying pretty much this. It's perfectly reasonable to look at CW Devy and decide that you don't like it, or that you'd rather go with something like Giant or Hercules. But too many people seem bent on trashing CW Devy because it's not as good as Giant or Hercules, or not MP quality, as if that level of quality was were realistically attainable in a $150 mass-market toy twice the size of Giant or Hercules.

EDIT: BBTS has preorders up for PC-06 and PC-07.

PC-06, which upgrades Devy's shoulders and hands, upgrades Mixmaster's cab, Scavenger's shovel, and Hook's crane, and gives you the Prowlestator head, looks like $59.99.

PC-07, which is the elbow fixes and guns for the individual Constructicons, will be $29.99.

Edited July 6, 2015 by mikeszekely

[Vermillion One]

Out of curiosity, how many of your kids are getting a $140 devastator? Honestly, do kids know who Devastator is?. Is he in current renditions of tv offering, in this form in the movies? I am sorry but its not a true mass market toy. I am not saying its not a solid toy, I just don't think its worth $140. I own Hercules and Giant and have trouble justifying them too.

[sixtybucks]

Out of curiosity, how many of your kids are getting a $140 devastator? Honestly, do kids know who Devastator is?. Is he in current renditions of tv offering, in this form in the movies? I am sorry but its not a true mass market toy. I am not saying its not a solid toy, I just don't think its worth $140. I own Hercules and Giant and have trouble justifying them too.

Sure, maybe they won't know who 1980's Devastator is, but I would bet most kids who see the box and the toy would want to know pretty quickly! I mean, come on, construction vehicles that combine in one giant bad ass robot? the basic concept is already cool as hell! and I'm pretty sure they already know what a Transformer is...

[mikeszekely]

I am sorry but its not a true mass market toy.

But it is. I mean, you're right in the sense that this isn't going to be the hot holiday toy for boys 5-10 this Christmas, but Hasbro isn't calling this an "adult collector's item" or anything that would let them skirt US toy regulations, nor are they designing it and pricing it for the market that doesn't think twice before dropping $300 on a bust. Hasbro made a toy that they could sell at Toys R Us at the $150 price point. So again, you might not like it, you might not want to spend $150 on it, and that's fine, but comparing it to a 3P figure that's half the size, costs more than three times as much, and isn't beholden to US toy regulations is just silly. It's like pointing out that a Toyota Corolla isn't as nice as a BMW M5. If you've got the money and the desire for an M5, skip the Corolla and buy it, tell me the Corolla isn't for you or that you don't care for it, but don't complain that the Corolla isn't as good as the M5 until the Corolla and the M5 have the same price tag.

[Vermillion One]

I never compared it to Giant or Hercules, I only wondered why the lack of articulation in voyager sized figures and giant air gaps in the limbs had become acceptable on a $150 toy. The simple fact that construction vehicles are cool, and kids think they are cool, doesn't mean that the majority of the purchases are going to be made by parents for children at the point of sale without supportive marketing (appearance in cartoons, etc.). How many kids own a Titan Metroplex? Its absolutely a collectors toy.

I worked in finance at TRU, dealing directly with vendors (Hasbro, Mattel, etc) Hasbro specifically developed toys collectors market, including exclusives aimed directly at that niche. This is a bigger extension of that strategy.