The Transformers Thread (licensed) Next

[Gakken85]

But if that's true, isn't it silly to assume Hasbro would allow their own factories to not only degrade their reputation, but make money off their mistakes?

Letting 3rd parties sell original designs is one thing, but turning a blind eye to "official" knockoffs seems lazy and sloppy. But maybe China is just that wild west when it comes to Intellectual property and there isn't a thing they can do.

I'm going off the assumption that the mp-03 release only happened because somebody KO'd it. It was a response to get dollars from collectors who might buy a cheaper alternative to ebay prices. They doubled down by making one just as cheap, but charging the same.

My assumption could very well be wrong, but the history lines up with the theory. Pictures and rumors of the KO came out months before MP-03 was announced.

In the end it's just fascinating to think about.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Gakken85

[mikeszekely]

But maybe China is just that wild west when it comes to IP.

This, basically. I mean, they have entire knock-off Apple Stores.

I doubt that Hasbro USA has the control over a factory that's likely in rural China that you might think, where employees get paid less in a month than fast food worker in Beijing makes in a day. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if "Wukong" pays them under the table to make a few (hundred) extra that he can turn around and sell online for a tidy profit, and that makes a hell of a lot more sense than Hasbro selling their own product as a KO.

[Gakken85]

Yeah. I mean I don't hate Hasbro, so much as I want to protect myself. Finding the patterns and not paying for re-issues when they are basically KO's is important to me, anyway.

Their first Grimlock was a great product, back in 09. And their recolor of MP-10 a few years ago is quality too, I just don't like the colors.

[JB0]

But if that's true, isn't it silly to assume Hasbro would allow their own factories to not only degrade their reputation, but make money off their mistakes?

False assumption. It's not Hasbro's factory, it's some random manufacturer in China that Hasbro's hired to pump out a few million plastic dinosaurs. They've had problems with the factories leaking stock out the back door for years, with some far more embarassing toys than a Grimlock repaint in that history.

Letting 3rd parties sell original designs is one thing, but turning a blind eye to "official" knockoffs seems lazy and sloppy. But maybe China is just that wild west when it comes to Intellectual property and there isn't a thing they can do.

Bingo. They've tried to shut it down in the past, but there's not really a lot they can do. If they actually OWNED the factory and had staff paid a reasonable wage, that'd be one thing. But as-is, there's just too much incentive to run a truckload of toys out the back door for any attempt at stopping it to be effective.

[Kanedas Bike]

For some reason as I read the last few posts Instruments of Destruction started playing in my head.

And that said.

Can we get Masterpiece Iron Hide, Ratchet and Hound already, and a few Decipticons like Galvatron and Cyclonus for good measure????

-b.

[Gakken85]

I really want Mirage yo.

[Kanedas Bike]

I really want Mirage yo.

+1 and Jazz and Kupp, and, and, and...

I sure do wish that all Transformer toys would just have "Masterpiece" level engineering and design. Stupid economic and business decisions.

-b.

[David Hingtgen]

This, basically. I mean, they have entire knock-off Apple Stores.

[Silverstreak]

False assumption. It's not Hasbro's factory, it's some random manufacturer in China that Hasbro's hired to pump out a few million plastic dinosaurs. They've had problems with the factories leaking stock out the back door for years, with some far more embarassing toys than a Grimlock repaint in that history.Bingo. They've tried to shut it down in the past, but there's not really a lot they can do. If they actually OWNED the factory and had staff paid a reasonable wage, that'd be one thing. But as-is, there's just too much incentive to run a truckload of toys out the back door for any attempt at stopping it to be effective.

Apparently, according to a few of the 3rd party companies that participate at TFW, there aren't as many factories in China as we think that can pump out decent quality toys (Masterpiece quality). So Hasbro might not have much choice.

Since this MP-09 KO has surfaced it will be interesting to see if Hasbro Asia (as they have been the ones pumping out most reissues lately) announce an upcoming rerelease of Rodimus. Then we will have proof that these KOs are the result of the factory pumping out extras to sell on the black market

[Gakken85]

Cool video. I wonder why it doesn't happen on more lines though? Macross, gundam, ect. Maybe they just aren't as popular as Transformers right now and the demand is too great.

[Mechapilot77]

Apparently, according to a few of the 3rd party companies that participate at TFW, there aren't as many factories in China as we think that can pump out decent quality toys (Masterpiece quality). So Hasbro might not have much choice.

Since this MP-09 KO has surfaced it will be interesting to see if Hasbro Asia (as they have been the ones pumping out most reissues lately) announce an upcoming rerelease of Rodimus. Then we will have proof that these KOs are the result of the factory pumping out extras to sell on the black market

i think every "KO" has a different story....and there are different types.

for example tigertracks originally had "KO" tha twere "no sticker" factory extras....then REAL KOs came out. when i say real KO I mean, somebody reverse engineered it....like what was done with lambor.

The WuKong grimmy is definitely reverse engineered as there are differences.

The Collection Kingdom Optimus? Definitely reverse engineered...many differences (heck we might as well call it the mp-10 daca toys edition)

as to whether or not hasbro releases reissues to counter KO's...that is certainly a possibility though we will never know. as to why 2014 mp-03 grimmy is worse....could be cost cutting to sell at lower price points...whether that was to ge the us market or to curb ko sales...we can only guess.

also do people here actually have knowledge of hasbro (and or takara) factories? do they simply rent space and time from factories or have their own? if i aws a giant like them i'd have my own, with different poudction lines dedicated to different product types...just seems to make sense as they constantly pump out an dhav a nee to pump out product. thi sisn't small 3P company renting 2-5 days of a line/workers time to do a 5K piece run. That beign said even though they might be hastak owned...leaks will always happen. it happened before they were made in china and is happening now in china (greater rate perhaps).

back on topic. yeah i want an mp jazz the most of any autobot car

[mikeszekely]

Cool video. I wonder why it doesn't happen on more lines though? Macross, gundam, ect. Maybe they just aren't as popular as Transformers right now and the demand is too great.

I can't speak about Macross, as I may be the only member of a Macross board that doesn't buy Macross toys, but Gundam model kits are made in Japan, where the workers are likely paid a lot more and therefore have less incentive to leak product.

[anime52k8]

Gundam model kits also get knocked off all the time.

[VF-2SS-BloodPhoenix]

I've heard, and I believe it, that there are one or two main plastic toy factories in China.

Every major toy company (Hasbro, Mattel, Takara, Bandai, etc.) goes to them to get their plastic toys made, but they aren't cheap and they won't make a few toys just for you.

You need to have a contract with them and have to pay for hundreds or thousands of product runs before they accept to make your products.

Running a factory is an expense no one wants to keep up.

Then there are taxes that eat at your costs.

[JB0]

also do people here actually have knowledge of hasbro (and or takara) factories? do they simply rent space and time from factories or have their own? if i aws a giant like them i'd have my own, with different poudction lines dedicated to different product types...just seems to make sense as they constantly pump out an dhav a nee to pump out product. thi sisn't small 3P company renting 2-5 days of a line/workers time to do a 5K piece run.

Well, if you own them, you have to pay all the taxes and fees, and adhere to any applicable labor laws.

Far easier to just go "Eh, I paid a guy to make 'em for me. He swears his factory's on the up and up."

Let someone that knows about manufacturing costs, labor law, and the evasion thereof deal with it.

[mikeszekely]

Gundam model kits also get knocked off all the time.

Really?

[Gakken85]

Well, if you own them, you have to pay all the taxes and fees, and adhere to any applicable labor laws.

Far easier to just go "Eh, I paid a guy to make 'em for me. He swears his factory's on the up and up."

Let someone that knows about manufacturing costs, labor law, and the evasion thereof deal with it.

Lulz china.

[mikeszekely]

Far easier to just go "Eh, I paid a guy to make 'em for me. He swears his factory's on the up and up."

Let someone that knows about manufacturing costs, labor law, and the evasion thereof deal with it.

Well, that's the thing I think a lot of us, especially in the West, sort of forget about China. Our window into China is Beijing or Shanghai, modern cities where the residents enjoy a reasonable standard of living and the usual things we associate with modern living. But, our window is their capital and cities designated "special economic zones," and a lot of the country is actually still living in third world conditions. Workers in those factories are actually making more than a lot of the other people in their area, despite bringing home a monthly amount that a Beijinger would be embarrassed to make in a week. And, even though the workers might be working 12-hour shifts 7 days a week in conditions that would absolutely get them shut down in the US or Europe, they may not be evading any Chinese labor laws. The ones that are aren't likely to get more than a slap on the wrist. As long as it's not happening in Beijing or one of the special economic zones, it's not worth the hassle.

[Mechapilot77]

Well, if you own them, you have to pay all the taxes and fees, and adhere to any applicable labor laws.

Far easier to just go "Eh, I paid a guy to make 'em for me. He swears his factory's on the up and up."

Let someone that knows about manufacturing costs, labor law, and the evasion thereof deal with it.

they just have to pay up to the local and regional organized crime/extortionists...i mean...party officials. there is nothing complicated about it unless you do something very pubically against them or if their is some agenda against you. pretty much everyone who has any amount of success in china - their hands are a bit dirty.

[Kanedas Bike]

So what's the release date of MP Wheeljack again?

-b.

[Gakken85]

20th of something... haha

[Kanedas Bike]

20th of something... haha

-b.

[anime52k8]

Really?

oh yeah, MGs, HGs, PGs, BB senshi, they do it all, they even make knock off plastic kits of resin kits.

Edited August 22, 2014 by anime52k8

[Gakken85]

BAAAAPPPPPPPPPEE priiiiiiiiiiimeeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuuuuu

My proxy added those little HK candies and some kind of wipes.. or cloth? or something?

[jenius]

Jealous. Let me know if you see one for a decent price.

[Gakken85]

I saw a few on TaoBao for $270ish shipped, but a lot of them were suspect listings that didn't pan out for people. Some people did get them for that price so that was about the best.

NY had them for $290+ shipping but also couldn't fill all their orders and sent cancellation noticies.

I think you can find a few on YJ for $300 before shipping through a proxy.

I spent $350. Not a great price, but considering the Takara prime gets close to $300 and ebay is asking $450, I'll take it.

I doubt BBTS and TFsource will get any stock if NY and Taobao folks are getting shorted. Seems like they would have listings unless it's on a boat or something? Idk.

Sweet piece anyway.

[Gakken85]

Unboxing review up soon

[Gakken85]

And review:

[Valkyrie2008]

MP SS, image from taghobby. Gakken must've fell asleep on this update!

[Gakken85]

Nice!

Lots of cool gimmicks. Love the shield and the movable antenna.

Jet is the same size as wheel jack

[Twoducks]

Nice arm articulation!

[Gakken85]

Took another Bape shot because I wanted to show off his Camo and eyes.

[technoblue]

The Bape eyes are nice---very shiny.

Edited August 24, 2014 by technoblue

[Gakken85]

Yeah, I love the Yellow on white, then the gray mouth plate. Really well done.

[skullmilitia]

God it's sad how bad the MP-10 mold is compared to that new KO V2 mold. Dat chest gap.