The Transformers Thread (licensed) Next

[Scyla]

You're taking my argument beyond where it went. I said 3P COMPETING with 1P seems uncouth. I still think 3P has value, particularly where 1P is ignoring something people want.

The thing against 'scalpers' is just an interesting study in where people are willing to draw their line in the sand. At the end of the day, you've spent $X and have Y. I imagine all of us on the board have made a profit on a toy at some point.

Anyway, water under the bridge, MP Galvatron is probably at the top of my list at this point. I'd say MP Megatron V2 but I just don't think there's any way it will happen. I will definitely by SpaceBrick because bot mode looks pretty cool. I suspect I won't keep him forever though since I won't have a sentimental connection.

I'm sure KFC would've never released Citizen Stack if they had known that MP-22 will be a all in one transformation. Unit they revealed the Ultra Magnus prototype it was set in stone that MP Magnus will be a white Convoy with add on armor that forms the trailer.

Of course people now try to justify the purchase of stack because they invested a good junk of money on it but I think most Transformers collectors will go for a HasTak toy rather than a 3rd party one if they have the chance. I would simply because 3rd party manufacturers mostly don't get the head right.

[Silverstreak]

Citizen stack was well underway before MP Mugnus was even announced. By the time Takara announced it, KFC would have invested a significant amount of cash into the project and, if nothing else had to push ahead to try to at least break even. No 3rd party company in their right mind would intentionally invest all that money to try to take on Takara with a release.

[Scyla]

So it was in development even before the listings of Ultra Magnus appeared?

[Gakken85]

They need to make a decent Megatron at some point. Decepticons are so woefully ignored by Takara. haha

[M'Kyuun]

Agreed. I'd love a new Megatron and Cyclonus, esp if they could nail the alt mode to look like his G1 toy, and still make his bot mode look good. MP Blitzwing and Astrotrain are high on the list as well.

[Gakken85]

Astrotrain is the one I want. I'd love to see how the MP line tackles a triple transformation.

[Kanedas Bike]

They need to make a decent Megatron at some point. Decepticons are so woefully ignored by Takara. haha

Agreed. I'd love a new Megatron and Cyclonus, esp if they could nail the alt mode to look like his G1 toy, and still make his bot mode look good. MP Blitzwing and Astrotrain are high on the list as well.

QFT

-b.

[Drad]

Megatron v.2, MP-11 Skywarp and Thundercracker (with proper deco). These guys need to happen, Megatron especially. The 'Cons need their leader.

[eriku]

Astrotrain is definitely close to the top of my list for Decepticons that I would like to see in MP form. Not really that keen on Galvatron for some reason. I must have a mental block when it comes to purple space lazers because I don't really get into Shockwave, either. :/

Edited June 25, 2014 by eriku

[JB0]

We need Masterpiece Shockwave. It's the only logical choice.

[Gakken85]

I have my original complete Galvatron from when I was a child. Electronics still work. I love the sparkly canon.

If a galvatron doesn't have a sparkly canon I'm not down.

[M'Kyuun]

For now, Maniac King is probably the closest we'll get to a decent Galvatron toy. I'm pretty meh about Galvatron. I'd take a MP version of Reflector over him. Shockwave, though...yep.

[David Hingtgen]

We need Masterpiece Shockwave. It's the only logical choice.

If there's one MP that's unlikely to happen, it's that. From what I've heard, HasTak no longer has the rights to that mold/design. The ONLY way to do it is unlicensed! And FT already did it. 3 runs worth. Even many of the diehard "official-only" collectors were swayed by it. What market is left? It'd be like doing an MP Huffer at this point.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

how about just any new mp bad guy that's not a tape player or seeker plane recolor. it feels like it's been a while.

we got mp prime recolors// autobot cars, grimlock 100th release, and ultramagnus. any new bad guy molds?

[Twoducks]

You're taking my argument beyond where it went. I said 3P COMPETING with 1P seems uncouth. I still think 3P has value, particularly where 1P is ignoring something people want.

The thing against 'scalpers' is just an interesting study in where people are willing to draw their line in the sand. At the end of the day, you've spent $X and have Y. I imagine all of us on the board have made a profit on a toy at some point.

Anyway, water under the bridge, MP Galvatron is probably at the top of my list at this point. I'd say MP Megatron V2 but I just don't think there's any way it will happen. I will definitely by SpaceBrick because bot mode looks pretty cool. I suspect I won't keep him forever though since I won't have a sentimental connection.

The 3P world is actually a very murky place. The “fans for the fans” excuse is rather thin right now. Back when Fansproject really started the 3P thing with their add-ons for existing figures or MMC with their super obscure Hearts of Steel TF, it meant something. There is a lot of money being made out of TF fans. Little wonder that more and more companies are popping up and it’s not like they are making obscure stuff. Most are after the big sellers in order of demand. Very few do “crazy” things like making Gobots or third tier characters like Mech Ideas.

Information here and there has surfaced about how much producing these things actually costs. Only case where you could say there was a real “for the fans” thing going is with the Daca Toys Kronos. Run by just tfw2005 member ARAFAT209; he designed and produced a masterpiece scale Skyfire for a price aimed at just covering costs and help fund a masterpiece scale Dreamworks Jetfire also for a low price.

The toy in question is gigantic and has diecast.

ARAFAT209 took feedback from people to rework the design but the project has been a troll fest. There have been stalkers, trolls, crazies and even Fantoys making condescending remarks towards the project (FT also plans to make a MP Skyfire but has only showed a blacked out drawing). The creator of the project has pretty much decided to cut communication and maybe even cancel the other two projects he had. Things got so out of hand that a youtube reviewer (the one with the whiny voice) spread misinformation saying that he had good sources that said each unit of Kronos had quality control problems. The Daca toys owner cleared that as false fast but it just goes to show that someone making a 3P toys for a good price does not attract the best kind of attention. Worth nothing that ARAFAT209 when poked by Fantoys has talked about 3P pricing. Don't think that made friends inside the sector.

The money is in making toys that look like TF characters. That way you can jack up the price. Only way you can explain that these two combiner sets are worth peanuts in comparison to other 3P combiners:

http://chimungmung.com/product_info.php?products_id=1819

http://chimungmung.com/product_info.php?products_id=1822

One does not have dinobot colors and the other does not have Defensor colors. They were designed by TFC, same people that designed the first Devastator, Superion and have a Predaking still in production. They sold the designs to another factory but just a bit more QC control and the right schemes and those sets could have gone for $300-$400 easy.

And there is a growing dickering going around: Warbotron, who are making a MP scale Bruticus, hit small stores in the balls when they went with an exclusive deal with BBTS to give them a 90 day exclusive in the US. This deal was only informed to small stores a week before the supposed release of the first figure. To further bitch slap them, stores had been force to order high numbers of their Bruticus in the first place to get the honor of selling it.

Kapow Toys, biggers etailer in Europe of 3P toys, has recently said on their FB that they are dropping a good number of 3p companies. Looks like bad communication (more like complete lack of it in some cases) and problems getting replacement parts and such has made them decide to just work with a few trusted ones. And I’m reading that other retailers plan to do the same.

Looks like Hasbro will not need to step in and these companies will just eat each other out. Peoples wallets can keep up with all the high prices items coming out.

[anime52k8]

>snip<

[David Hingtgen]

If you think color alone would make those two TFC combiners sell to TF fans en masse, you're dreaming. The one could be a FLAWLESS copy of Defensor's colors, and cost $100 total, and I wouldn't give it a second glance. (Defensor being my fave Autobot combiner)

[Gakken85]

I foresee a big drop off when the movies die down. The whole TF market should shrink a bit. You can't deny the movies drive the need for Grimlock and every company has their hand in the pie trying to capitalize. Hastak, 3ps, and general movie toys.

I mean, a lot of it is driven by sales for kids, as I'm sure people paying for adult collectibles is a small margin in the grand scheme.

In 2 years those kids won't care and the movie's will need rebooting. Who knows.

Nostalgia factor is high for G1, and always will be in the states, but something has to give.

All the 3rd party companies fill holes they see in consumer demand. MP hands. MP level combiners. Jetfire. Grimlock KO's ect.

Anywhere they see a place to make a buck they will jump in hands first and Takara just can't keep up with them.

I'm not sure why they can't increase production and make more MP's per year. The way they sell they should be able to make profits and edge out 3p's. But who knows what their costs are like. They already went out of business once.

Also, BBTS is trying to gobble up every sector of the toy market they can get, so I can't blame them for trying to get exclusives to drive purchases. Eventually it has to consolidate. I go with TF source just to take advantage of free shipping if I have to, as they seem to get all the same stuff. I know Make Toys is also exclusive with the bigger retailers, and they have about the best 3p's out there along with Fan toys.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of these companies are just former Takara/Hasbro employees with access to molds and they want to do things without restrictions. You'd never see a Make Toys Utopia make it to market at the cost and complexity on offer.

But Yeah, I don't see what they can do from a legal stand point, other than raid and jail the smaller distros like Fandojo and Chirmungmung, who are already getting squeezed out. They can send letters to cease and desist but, so what? None of this is above board anyway. They are going to send people in to china to find these molds and shut them down? They can just move operation and ship it out and take orders elsewhere. I doubt the legal cost of enforcing their brand... which is another problem... would they be able to find a judge that thinks Utopia looks enough like G1 metroplex to make a decision? Who frakking knows... it's not worth the cost when they probably barely stay profitable as it is.

With technology and 3D printing I think third party toys will only get stronger and bigger.

I foresee in the future smaller channels of distribution, and eventually larger companies trying to buy out the 3P companies and running them like a independent "studios".

Edited June 25, 2014 by Gakken85

[Twoducks]

If you think color alone would make those two TFC combiners sell to TF fans en masse, you're dreaming. The one could be a FLAWLESS copy of Defensor's colors, and cost $100 total, and I wouldn't give it a second glance. (Defensor being my fave Autobot combiner)

Considering that most 3P toys have the engineering level of a good Hasbro deluxe, save for the more professional Maketoys/Fansproject and MMC, and that most TF fandom goes wallets open into the first of anything, then yes, I do thing it would have gotten sales. Like I said, $300 to 400 easy; TFC other designs go for about $500 on release.

[skullmilitia]

We are of course meriting the fact that 3P companies are stealing IP rights to make profit, which is essentially pirating.

It's no different then Metallica playing a GNR song on their record without asking permission.

Making money of someone else's copyrighted work is illegal, and immoral. The fact that people are still buying 3P after blatantly ignoring

the "Fan Upgrade" point of why that market existing.

having a exact replica of Jetfire from a copyrighted cartoon is a complete theft. How Hasbro just sat around at Botcon without asking

how they have the right is ludicrous! It's one thing to make parts to toys Hasbro never intends to make, but full figures are past the line.

Anyone who defends the full figure side deserves the same Karma back. By all means let me know how you feed your family, I'll steal it, and sell it right in front of you, then tell you "you waited to long bro".

[David Hingtgen]

Theft of a concept and theft of a physical entity are quite different things.

If I sit here and hum a tune I just made up, and you "steal" it---vs grabbing food off my table---they aren't the same. (both wrong, yes, but very different degrees/damages)

[anime52k8]

In 2 years those kids won't care and the movie's will need rebooting. Who knows.

In 2 years movie 5 will come out, and 2 years after that movie 6. And the cycle continues ad nauseum.

[Tober]

The 3P world is actually a very murky place. The “fans for the fans” excuse is rather thin right now. Back when Fansproject really started the 3P thing with their add-ons for existing figures or MMC with their super obscure Hearts of Steel TF, it meant something. There is a lot of money being made out of TF fans. Little wonder that more and more companies are popping up and it’s not like they are making obscure stuff. Most are after the big sellers in order of demand. Very few do “crazy” things like making Gobots or third tier characters like Mech Ideas.

Information here and there has surfaced about how much producing these things actually costs. Only case where you could say there was a real “for the fans” thing going is with the Daca Toys Kronos. Run by just tfw2005 member ARAFAT209; he designed and produced a masterpiece scale Skyfire for a price aimed at just covering costs and help fund a masterpiece scale Dreamworks Jetfire also for a low price.

10414419_735383926525099_436493608426436764_n.jpgdaca robot.jpg

The toy in question is gigantic and has diecast.

ARAFAT209 took feedback from people to rework the design but the project has been a troll fest. There have been stalkers, trolls, crazies and even Fantoys making condescending remarks towards the project (FT also plans to make a MP Skyfire but has only showed a blacked out drawing). The creator of the project has pretty much decided to cut communication and maybe even cancel the other two projects he had. Things got so out of hand that a youtube reviewer (the one with the whiny voice) spread misinformation saying that he had good sources that said each unit of Kronos had quality control problems. The Daca toys owner cleared that as false fast but it just goes to show that someone making a 3P toys for a good price does not attract the best kind of attention. Worth nothing that ARAFAT209 when poked by Fantoys has talked about 3P pricing. Don't think that made friends inside the sector.

It is a shame what happened to Arafat on TFW2005. I was behind the Kronos project until it became obvious that it was a parts-former to a severe degree and ended up canceling my pre-order because of it. I could get past the head and cockpit problems, even the lack of coloring, but not the reassembly aspect of its transformation. If he had engineered the transformation fully I would still have a pre-order.

I will wait for reviews and maybe I will re-order it they are good.

[Kanedas Bike]

So...isn't there an actual 3rd Party Transformers thread, or are they talking about Takara MP-22 Ultra Magnus over there?

-b.

[Gakken85]

Threadjacked?

Edited June 26, 2014 by Gakken85

[Kanedas Bike]

So yeah...

Takara Tomy DMK-03 Age of Extinction Optimus Prime!

http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-toys-products-30/dual-model-kit-age-of-extinction-optmus-prime-180522/

Can't wait to get my hands on this kit, hopefully they've improved upon the fit and finish issues that plagued DMK-01.

-b.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

does anyone know if they're still continuing the encore line? i love the original g1 toys.

[Gakken85]

So I heard an interesting piece of gossip that's a bit on the 3rd party topic.

Apparently, takara staff leaked the Snarl design out to 3rd party because they were pissed they weren't getting paid enough.

Looking at the mold it seems legit. Look at the legs.. they basically look like grimlocks, and it has a polish that even the scoria release doesn't have.

[Kanedas Bike]

So wait...is that picture above an actual representation of a Takara product or a 3rd Party (whose origins may or may not be from Takara)?

-b.

[David Hingtgen]

So...isn't there an actual 3rd Party Transformers thread, or are they talking about Takara MP-22 Ultra Magnus over there?

-b.

MP Magnus vs Citizen Stack---hard to have a debate about the two in a single area. No different over at TFW. The Citizen Stack thread can be mainly about Magnus at times, and vice-versa.

So I heard an interesting piece of gossip that's a bit on the 3rd party topic.

Apparently, takara staff leaked the Snarl design out to 3rd party because they were pissed they weren't getting paid enough.

Looking at the mold it seems legit. Look at the legs.. they basically look like grimlocks, and it has a polish that even the scoria release doesn't have.

Doubt it. *Snarl* had a finished engineering design ready to go from the MP team? He's not even one of the original Dinobots. (see: first appearance) There's a lot more "top tier" characters to do in the MP line before him. It's a whole lot more likely that Gigapower (that's who made that proto) simply copied elements of MP Grimlock.

[Gakken85]

That's the Gigapower MP Snarl. Technically a 3rd party. They are doing all five dinos including a renewal of Grimlock.

....

[skullmilitia]

Theft of a concept and theft of a physical entity are quite different things.If I sit here and hum a tune I just made up, and you "steal" it---vs grabbing food off my table---they aren't the same. (both wrong, yes, but very different degrees/damages)

What concept? Humming a tune, and owning the copyright for lyrics and musical arrangements is not one in the same.

Last time I checked a cartoon character was protected under character trademarks.

So I heard an interesting piece of gossip that's a bit on the 3rd party topic.

Apparently, takara staff leaked the Snarl design out to 3rd party because they were pissed they weren't getting paid enough.

Looking at the mold it seems legit. Look at the legs.. they basically look like grimlocks, and it has a polish that even the scoria release doesn't have.

Or they just used a lazy already made design and copied it..

No offense, but I highly doubt Japanese engineers get pissed, and throw their hard work at Chinese

Merchants. Lol

[jenius]

1) That toy looks really good

2) I wouldn't buy that rumor

[anime52k8]

Doubt it. *Snarl* had a finished engineering design ready to go from the MP team? He's not even one of the original Dinobots. (see: first appearance) There's a lot more "top tier" characters to do in the MP line before him. It's a whole lot more likely that Gigapower (that's who made that proto) simply copied elements of MP Grimlock.

Grimlock and Slag are the only Dinobots that matter. Fact.

[Black Valkyrie]

What happened to Hasbro's Jetfire ?