The Transformers Thread (licensed) Next

[mikeszekely]

4 hours ago, technoblue said:

Yowza. I don't know how they're doing it.

IMO Unicron was barely worth what Hasbro was asking for it during the crowdfund campaign and that was still too much for me. 

Yeah.  I mean, it is sort of an historic release, so I get the allure.  But after watching Thew's recent unboxing I'm really glad I went with Zeta's instead.

[technoblue]

3 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

I bought a copy, but I agree. It's way overpriced for what it offers, and doesn't. I got it b/c it's something unique within the official line, and G1 Unicron toys have been few and far between. It's value is more in in its uniqueness than in the physical toy itself, and because of the special nature of its having come about, it's only ever going to appreciate in value, so long as there are G1 fans, or fans of unique limited-run toys.

 

1 minute ago, mikeszekely said:

Yeah.  I mean, it is sort of an historic release, so I get the allure.  But after watching Thew's recent unboxing I'm really glad I went with Zeta's instead.

Historic? I'm not sure about that. I can see how it is unique. But even so, Unicron didn't get a lot of traction in that initial crowdfunding effort. Hasbro went right down to the wire and even had to extend the campaign some to finish. That doesn't really speak to a popularity which would then push prices up to $1200/$1400 US on the aftermarket. Of course, maybe unscrupulous sellers are just taking advantage like their counterparts have in the computer parts space over the last year. 

Wouldn't be the first time.

[mikeszekely]

4 hours ago, technoblue said:

Historic? I'm not sure about that.

I'd say so, yeah.  It's the biggest official Transformer figure ever, it's the first time an official figure has been made for G1 Unicron, and the first official Transformer to come about through crowdfunding.  It's definitely a watershed moment for the Transformers community.  And I only said it was a historic release, not a good one.

Anyway... I'm sure you guys are aware of the Shattered Glass Megatron that's coming.  Now, the original Shattered Glass Megatron figure was based on Energon Megatron/Galvatron.  And that figure's primary weapon wasn't a fusion cannon, it was a tank.  A tank he wore on his arm.  Of course, the new figure, a retool of Siege Megatron, doesn't come with a tank, but someone pointed out the possibility of using Core-class Megatron for Shattered Glass Megatron's tank.  But why stop at one core-class...

...when I could get the rest of them!  So, with the previous two (Rattrap and Vertebreak) the new size class sort of made sense... Vertebreak is a new character and could be any size, and Rattrap is a smaller guy (although I technically think he should have been only slightly shorter than Cheetor, not like half the size).  I'm not entirely clear on Hasbro's logic with these three.  I've heard it suggested that with the rising costs in the mainline they wanted to make more affordable versions of some of the main cast.  I've also heard it suggested that Hasbro wanted smaller versions of bigger figures that you could display with the Titan-class figures to make them seem more huge.  Either way, what we have here are three tiny versions of characters previously released as Voyagers.*

*Yes, I know, Prime was released as a Leader... but he's the same size as the Voyager-class Siege figure

We'll start on the left, with Optimus Prime.  You can see that these Core-class figures are indeed quite small, as he's quite a bit shorter even than Magic Square's Legends-class Optimus.  Sort of makes me wonder how many Autobots Hasbro can release in this class and still keep things in scale; carbots would be like Newage Bumblebee-sized.  In broad strokes, Optimus doesn't look too bad.  He's got similar proportions to the larger figure, although his forearms are a bit swole.  Colors aren't bad; he's missing some yellow and blue on his pelvis, but the Leader-class figure was too before I got Reprolabels on him.  Aesthetically, his biggest flaw is really the kibble on his back, which kind of dangles down behind his hips, and the fact that the insides of his thighs and the backs of his calves are needlessly hollow.

Prime's head swivels.  His shoulders are ball joints for rotation and 90 degrees of lateral movement.  His biceps are also ball joints, providing both his bicep swivel and 90 degrees of elbow bend.  No wrist or waist swivels.  His hips are ball joints and get about 90 degrees forward, backward, or laterally, as well as providing some limited thigh swivel.  His knees are, you guessed it, ball joints.  They get slightly over 90 degrees of bend, and can be used for a bit more thigh swivel.  No foot articulation.

He comes with his signature ion rifle, and it looks decent enough for the scale.  What's interesting is that the ports on his hands are 3mm ports, but the handle of the rifle is a 3mm peg on a 5mm peg, so larger figure can hold it too (as long as they don't have too bulky of wrist, since the 5mm part is fairly shallow).

Transformation is pretty basic, and kind of a letdown after the larger figure's clever system for unfurling the front of the cab from the chest.  In fact, the lower half of the cab (tires and all) is simply on his back, folded over itself so you can't see the truck's grill.  It's passable, minus the huge gray "window" on the side, but holds together about as well you'd expect for something that's 60% ball joints by volume.

For weapon storage you have two options.  You can either use a tab under the middle of the barrel to plug it into the gray "window" I was complaining about.  This is for aiming the gun in front of the truck.  Alternatively, you can aim it backward by plugging the 3mm peg on the handle into a port between his shins.

The first thing that struck me about Megatron was his odd colors.  Like, his head and torso are fine, as is his black pelvis.  As a matter of fact, it seems mostly painted, with a slight silver for his lats and face and a slightly darker silver for his abs, chest, and helmet.  But then some of that darker silver seems to be covering his traditionally black hands.  The rest of his right arm is a dark gunmetal gray, as is his left shoulder and bicep, but his left forearm is black.  That gunmetal color was also used for his thighs.  His lower legs are black, which is ok I guess, but so are his feet.  The result is close enough to be recognizable as Megatron, but far enough that I'm debating on whether or not to repaint him.

Megatron's backpack doesn't fold in the way the Siege/Earthrise figures' does, but it's still fairly analogous.  And while he does have some hollow spots if you look for them, they're not as immediately obvious as Prime's.

Megatron's articulation is similar to Prime's; head swivel, ball joints at the shoulders, elbows, hips, and knees, no wrist or ankle articulation.  The big differences are the shoulder kibble that limits his shoulder rotation, and the fact that Megatron actually has a waist swivel.

Megatron's fusion cannon is actually not an accessory; it's actually attached on this figure.  And this version doesn't come with a sword or any of the other partsforming kibble the larger Siege and Earthrise figures did.  He does, however, come with a little pistol that bears a striking similarity to Megatron's gun mode, minus the added stock and barrel parts.  Like Prime's rifle, it has a 3mm peg for Megatron to hold on the bottom of a 5mm peg for larger figures to hold.  If you don't like Megatron holding a gun, though, there are a pair of 3mm peg holes that you can use to store the gun between the treads on Megatron's back.

Despite the reduction in size, Megatron's transformation is a similar (if simplified) version of the larger figures'.  Interestingly, the extra shoulder kibble kind of negated the need for partsforming the front of the turret.  The paint, again, winds up a bit different and the barrel is significantly shorter, but on the whole this little figure pulls off his alt mode nearly as well as the Earthrise version with less partsforming on a third of the budget.

You may have noticed that the gun forms the tank's somewhat stubby barrel, so it's not totally without partsforming.  Still, that gun makes a better weapon and stores better if you don't want to use it as a weapon than anything Earthrise Megatron carries.  Plus, Megatron's turret can still rotate, and the tank's barrel can still be elevated a bit by moving the fusion cannon the gun plugs into.

Starscream's an interesting case.  His colors aren't off the way Megatron's are, but he's suffering the most from missing paint apps entirely.  His pelvis should be red, his lats should be light gray, and he's missing both blue and black on his shins, to say nothing of the fact that he's missing the red and white stripes on his wings.  However, the missing color, and the way it draws my attention, allows me to notice how extremely closely the sculpt of the Core-class copies that of the Voyager.  Especially in the legs and torso, if the larger figure has a molded detail or panel line they tried to make sure the smaller figure has the same detail or line.

That said, Starscream might have the worst hollow bits of the three figures we're looking at today.

Starscream's articulation is right back to Prime's; head swivel, ball joints in the shoulders, bicep/elbows, hips, and knees, nothing in the wrists, feet, or waist.  But the Voyager doesn't have a waist swivel either, so meh.

Starscream does come with his signature null rays.  Unlike Megatron's gun or Prime's rifle they have only 3mm pegs, not 3mm on 5mm.  This allows them to plug onto his shoulders and sit relatively flush.

Of the three figures we're looking at, Starscream might just have the most interesting transformation.  Instead of the usual folding out the nose, stuffing his arms into his torso, squishing his legs, and flipping his wings over the torso on the Core-class opens vertically, allowing almost his entire upper body to rotate 180 degrees on his back before closing back up over his thighs.  However, while the transformation is certainly novel and interesting, it's not without its faults.  Most obvious here is that his jet mode has weird, almost SD proportions that remind me of something you might find in a Happy Meal toy.

The other downsides are more easily noticed when you look under the jet.  The relocation of his torso leaves a large gap in the fuselage under the nose, which itself is a bit messier  with his spin and head than the larger figure.  His arms also don't fold away; they're quite visible under his wings.  I feel like something probably could have been done with them, but I can't exactly say I'm mad at a $10, 3.5" (8.9cm to my non-American friends) toy for not doing it.  And, on the plus side, his null rays don't have to be removed for transformation as they end up in exactly the same spot in jet mode.

Ok, so straight up if you're collecting the WFC figures you almost certainly already have these guys, and the figures you already have scale with each other just fine.  Buying any of these is basically starting WFC over in an entirely new scale, and in that sense you probably don't need to do it and can go back to ignoring figures smaller than Deluxe.  That said, I think Megatron might actually work for the purpose I bought him for.  He's got a 3mm port on his butt, and that butt winds up right in the middle of the bottom of the tank.  Nonnef makes some adapters that are 3mm pegs on one end and 5mm on the other that should let me easily attach the tank to the upcoming Shattered Glass Megatron's arm, no problem.  Now, combine that with the fact that Megatron's actually a pretty cool little figure that does some things better than the larger figures and, yeah, I feel pretty comfortable recommending him if you want to do something similar, or just want a smaller Megatron (that whole "make the Titans look bigger thing" makes some sense).  He's definitely the best of the three.

Starscream's definitely got more flaws than Megatron, mostly a lack of paint and some weird jet mode proportions.  His engineering is kind of cool, though, and I find myself digging him despite his flaws.  Want to have a tiny army of Decepticons to display with Trypticon and Scorponok?  Starscream's probably worth a look, too.  (And yeah, between Megatron and Starscream I'm suddenly very interested in the announced Core-class Soundwave.)

But what if you want a rival for Megatron?  What if you want a similar army of Autobots to go with Metroplex, Fort Max, Omega Supreme, and the Ark?  Well, so far it's just Optimus.  And Optimus is decidedly meh.  Among the many Optimus Primes I've collected over the last 15 years or so this little Core-class figure reminds me the most of the old Classics Deluxe.  He's definitely the weakest of these three; he's like just good enough that if you really want a Prime in scale with Core-class Megatron he'll do, but not good enough to recommend on his own otherwise.

[technoblue]

3 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

I'd say so, yeah.  It's the biggest official Transformer figure ever, it's the first time an official figure has been made for G1 Unicron, and the first official Transformer to come about through crowdfunding.  It's definitely a watershed moment for the Transformers community.  And I only said it was a historic release, not a good one.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this point.  From my perspective, you are listing milestones that are important to a select group of Transformers fans only.  A truly historic event would be something that reached well beyond this group, and perhaps even beyond the larger hobbyist community. I would hazard to guess that anyone who has different interests than these is probably unaware of what transpired with Unicron, if they are even aware of the character.  

Besides, whether Unicron is good or bad--and even my snarky opinion of the release--really wasn't the point of the original question. The point was, how is Unicron worth 2x the asking price on eBay and more than that on BBTS? So far, the only logical answer is scarcity since our oversized plastic demon basketball was manufactured as a reward for Hasbro's second crowdfunding campaign. The debate about whether it is historical or not, although interesting, I would argue doesn't factor into the aftermarket pricing ploys. 

Considering that our hypothetical G1/WFC fan is 1) really unlucky and 2) has incredibly bad timing, I think that fan is still better off waiting than paying into the consumer unfriendly eBay/BBTS late tax. The thing is, it's always better waiting or hanging out on forums like these to see if someone puts up larger items like Unicron at a fair price. Better deals can be had if one is patient enough. 

Edited May 29, 2021 by technoblue

[Negotiator]

 

[Valkyrie Hunter D]

Pre-orders for the huge self transforming OP have opened up again from its developer: Robosen Toys.

[M'Kyuun]

7 hours ago, technoblue said:

We'll have to agree to disagree on this point.  From my perspective, you are listing milestones that are important to a select group of Transformers fans only.  A truly historic event would be something that reached well beyond this group, and perhaps even beyond the larger hobbyist community. I would hazard to guess that anyone who has different interests than these is probably unaware of what transpired with Unicron, if they are even aware of the character.  

Fair point. While the TF fandom is large, it doesn't hold a candle to sports, music, or highly popular tv show fandoms like GoT or Walking Dead. But, there is an audience, as we've seen from the different guest stars on some of the Pulse presentations. Who would have thought someone like Taboo from Black-eyed Peas would be such a fan? I'm sure he's not the only rock star, or celebrity, or pro sports person who's into Transformers. I think it's folks like these, with ample financial resources and very busy lives, who may not have an awareness of everything going on in the TF toy world, that are targeted by these uber-greedy resellers. That's an untested theory, but really, I think it's a simple matter of blind greed on the part of the seller in the hopes that someone, anyone will bite and they'll make a big payday. I would hope by this point, however, that most folks who have any internet presence whatsoever and just a general awareness of the abject scumminess of the majority of humanity, would know that ebay has become one of the main platforms for exuberant overpricing of anything considered collectible.

8 hours ago, technoblue said:

 The point was, how is Unicron worth 2x the asking price on eBay and more than that on BBTS? So far, the only logical answer is scarcity since our oversized plastic demon basketball was manufactured as a reward for Hasbro's second crowdfunding campaign. The debate about whether it is historical or not, although interesting, I would argue doesn't factor into the aftermarket pricing ploys. 

It's not, but I think you answered your own question as to why so much stuff resells for extremely high prices- scarcity, and demand. And people with deep enough pockets who'll shell.  I don't frequent ebay much, due to the high prices, but sometimes I come across an ebay auction if I'm looking up a particular toy. Case in point, I'd love to get my hands on an Animated Blackout, but the secondary market prices soar well beyond what the toy is actually worth and what I'm willing to pay. So I continue to hope Hasbro will do a rerelease at some point like they did for the Flying Vehicon and Breakdown. They seem to have distanced themselves from Animated, for whatever reason, so I'm not holding my breath. But as time rolls on, and the scarcity of retired toy lines increase (check out the LEGO secondary market sometime-yeesh!), somewhere at some point, a fan, collector, or investor is going to pay the high asking price for these things out of love for the thing itself, or as a potential investment to make even more money from it.  

8 hours ago, technoblue said:

Considering that our hypothetical G1/WFC fan is 1) really unlucky and 2) has incredibly bad timing, I think that fan is still better off waiting than paying into the consumer unfriendly eBay/BBTS late tax. The thing is, it's always better waiting or hanging out on forums like these to see if someone puts up larger items like Unicron at a fair price. Better deals can be had if one is patient enough. 

True enough. But there may be TF fans who aren't a part of the community, for whatever reasons, or who rarely if ever check forums for folks selling stuff (guilty). I've probably missed out on opportunities, but I seldom check forums for folks selling stuff. At that point, BBTS and the like, as well as ebay, become the most prominent options. And those of us with lots of disposable income and no desire to wait for a deal will just buy the thing b/c they can.

8 hours ago, Negotiator said:

 

Interesting change they made to the upper body transformation, but not enough to make me shell for this. I was hoping for a Kingdom Mirage that was much closer to the G1 transformation. I have the Siege toy, but the Classics fig is still my favorite. 

[technoblue]

5 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Fair point. While the TF fandom is large, it doesn't hold a candle to sports, music, or highly popular tv show fandoms like GoT or Walking Dead. But, there is an audience, as we've seen from the different guest stars on some of the Pulse presentations. Who would have thought someone like Taboo from Black-eyed Peas would be such a fan? I'm sure he's not the only rock star, or celebrity, or pro sports person who's into Transformers. I think it's folks like these, with ample financial resources and very busy lives, who may not have an awareness of everything going on in the TF toy world, that are targeted by these uber-greedy resellers. That's an untested theory, but really, I think it's a simple matter of blind greed on the part of the seller in the hopes that someone, anyone will bite and they'll make a big payday. I would hope by this point, however, that most folks who have any internet presence whatsoever and just a general awareness of the abject scumminess of the majority of humanity, would know that ebay has become one of the main platforms for exuberant overpricing of anything considered collectible.

Not to be contrarian, but who's to say a rock star or other celebrity couldn't be fans? But really, that's more of a rhetorical question, since any actual discussion would get us into the ethics of Internet usage and other such heavy topics which are far off topic here. I agree that eBay is not as welcome to casual buyers and collectors as it was 10 or 20 years ago. You have to know who the good sellers are before you buy today.

6 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

It's not, but I think you answered your own question as to why so much stuff resells for extremely high prices- scarcity, and demand. And people with deep enough pockets who'll shell.  I don't frequent ebay much, due to the high prices, but sometimes I come across an ebay auction if I'm looking up a particular toy.

Not really answering my own question, but zeroing in onto a point you made in my reply to ErikElvis earlier:

Quote

I bought a copy, but I agree. It's way overpriced for what it offers, and doesn't. I got it b/c it's something unique within the official line, and G1 Unicron toys have been few and far between. It's value is more in in its uniqueness than in the physical toy itself, and because of the special nature of its having come about, it's only ever going to appreciate in value, so long as there are G1 fans, or fans of unique limited-run toys.

I empathize with your other examples, especially LEGO. There are a number of classic sets, and even some modern sets, that I missed that I would love to track down but these are currently unobtanium because the prices shot off into the stratosphere. The recent LEGO R2-D2 set is one example where I got lucky, but I digress. With Transformers, I'm usually banking on third-party releases to revisit the themes Hasbro and Takara are ignoring for whatever reason. Alas, even with that third-party net, most manufactures are not willing to risk moving away from G1. I mean, I would love seeing improved Animated and Prime Transformers. Both shows got me back into the franchise, although I missed out on collecting the Animated line completely. Indeed. Transformers Prime recently got some love with official reissues as well as a number of improved fourth-party KOs. Alas, all that goodness has gone quiet again.

I hope it wasn't short lived.

[M'Kyuun]

16 minutes ago, technoblue said:

Not to be contrarian, but who's to say a rock star or other celebrity couldn't be fans? But really, that's more of a rhetorical question, since any actual discussion would get us into the ethics of Internet usage and other such heavy topics which are far off topic here. I agree that eBay is not as welcome to casual buyers and collectors as it was 10 or 20 years ago. You have to know who the good sellers are before you buy today.

Not really answering my own question, but zeroing in onto a point you made in my reply to ErikElvis earlier:

I empathize with your other examples, especially LEGO. There are a number of classic sets, and even some modern sets, that I missed that I would love to track down but these are currently unobtanium because the prices shot off into the stratosphere. The recent LEGO R2-D2 set is one example where I got lucky, but I digress. With Transformers, I'm usually banking on third-party releases to revisit the themes Hasbro and Takara are ignoring for whatever reason. Alas, even with that third-party net, most manufactures are not willing to risk moving away from G1. I mean, I would love seeing improved Animated and Prime Transformers. Both shows got me back into the franchise, although I missed out on collecting the Animated line completely. Indeed. Transformers Prime recently got some love with official reissues as well as a number of improved fourth-party KOs. Alas, all that goodness has gone quiet again.

I hope it wasn't short lived.

You're not being contrarian at all. My point, poorly worded, was that there certainly are famous and wealthy people who happen to be nerdy and like to buy toys and such of whatever franchise(s) tickle their fancies. Rereading what I wrote, it doesn't come across.  And yeah, where ebay was the place to find good deals on various things 20-30 years ago, it has since become a haven for greedy resellers looking to take max advantage of fans' desires to collect things, especially those that saw limited runs, are retired, or just remain very popular over time. Personally, I don't spend enough time on there to discern the good from bad sellers, and though I have used it on a few occasions, I tend to avoid it as the last option.

As to your having missed out on Animated, I'm truly sorry to hear that. Animated was, and remains, one of those divisive shows among fans, much like Beast Wars before it.  The animation style tended to sour a lot of fans on it, but the storytelling, the writing, and the voice talent made for a great Transformers show packed with a lot of G1 love. The toys, IMHO, were well done considering the extremely toonish and stylized art direction of the animation. Again, the fandom has varying opinions.  Keeping it close to home,  Animated remains one of my favorite shows and toylines within the Transformers brand, but @mikeszekely doesn't care for the toys, as he doesn't feel there was good translation.  Correct me if I'm wrong, Mike.  I'm inclined to believe that Hasbro is reluctant to revisit Animated, as well, as they completely ignored its ten year anniversary, and AFAIK, have never done any toy rereleases since the show ended prematurely in 2009, minus its planned fourth season.  I don't hold much hope for any official releases any time soon, unless they get a change in management at Hasbro who's a big fan of the show/toys and can do something about it.

 

[ErikElvis]

I haven’t opened my unicron yet and am tempted to sell but while it’s not perfect I do think it’s pretty cool. Especially planet mode. I may never transform it just because I’m lazy. 

[tekering]

I haven't opened my Blackout yet and am tempted to sell but while it's not perfect I do think it's pretty cool.  Especially helicopter mode.  I may never sell it just because I'm lazy.

[mikeszekely]

Now that we're all vaccinated and restrictions are starting to loosen up my D&D group is finally getting together to play again, and it seems like while I was busy playing this thread got more action than it normally does in a week!  So forgive me if I missed something, but-

20 hours ago, technoblue said:

We'll have to agree to disagree on this point. 

Fair enough.  I think we just have different ideas about where the goal posts should be- I think it's historic because it's a big deal within the community, you think it's not because its appeal won't extend beyond said community.  However you choose to describe it, I think my point is the same.

20 hours ago, technoblue said:

Besides, whether Unicron is good or bad--and even my snarky opinion of the release--really wasn't the point of the original question. The point was, how is Unicron worth 2x the asking price on eBay and more than that on BBTS?

And to clarify, my point is that while I ultimately chose not to back the crowdfund I can sort of see why, given the magnitude of the release, others did.  It's a price that definitely feels like too much for what it actually is, but not so much that it seems totally unjustified for that having-been-there experience.  Double or more on the aftermarket?  No, I'm right with you there... that's insanity.

4 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Animated remains one of my favorite shows and toylines within the Transformers brand, but @mikeszekely doesn't care for the toys, as he doesn't feel there was good translation.  Correct me if I'm wrong, Mike.

Not exactly wrong, but I should clarify.  It's not that I think that HasTak did a bad job taking the on-screen designs and turning them into toys- I think they did the best they could there.  It's that I personally don't feel the flat, stylized animation used in the show translates well to a three-dimensional object, period.  I thought the show was great, and I liked some of the designs in concept, but yeah, not a fan of the toys.  That said...

59 minutes ago, tekering said:

I haven't opened my Blackout yet and am tempted to sell but while it's not perfect I do think it's pretty cool.  Especially helicopter mode.  I may never sell it just because I'm lazy.

I wish Blackout would get the WfC, pseudo-G1 treatment that Barricade did.  In fact, one of the reasons I'm open to updated versions of Unicron Trilogy toys in the post-WfC trilogy despite hating the shows is because they're the designs that I think work best with G1.  They've got that same boxy robot with visible alt mode parts design common to the franchise before the Bayverse introduced us to more organic shapes, chicken legs, and weird hands.

[M'Kyuun]

11 hours ago, tekering said:

I haven't opened my Blackout yet and am tempted to sell but while it's not perfect I do think it's pretty cool.  Especially helicopter mode.  I may never sell it just because I'm lazy.

  

That's my Animated holy grail right there, the one that got away. I keep hoping they'll do a rerelease b/ c the aftermarket for this guy is insane.

10 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

Not exactly wrong, but I should clarify.  It's not that I think that HasTak did a bad job taking the on-screen designs and turning them into toys- I think they did the best they could there.  It's that I personally don't feel the flat, stylized animation used in the show translates well to a three-dimensional object, period.  I thought the show was great, and I liked some of the designs in concept, but yeah, not a fan of the toys.  That said...

Ok cool, glad I wasn't totally off base, but I appreciate the clarification and will bear it in mind if ever I use this again as an example of a respectful differing of opinions. I'm right there with you on the Bayverse designs, though. I'll add a few reasons of my own for why I don't like them: unlike the G1 toys, which carried over many elements of the alt modes into bot form by mechanical necessity, Bayformers are entirely an artistic product completely untethered from mechanical reality. The alt modes are chipped and chopped into infinitesimal pieces, bent and warped into various shapes incompatible with the alt mode, tires are broken up into pieces, and all these things are then placed at whim without any regard to realistic functionality or actual placement relative to the alt mode upon a skeletal frame without regard as to how said bits and pieces would be mechanically moved or held in place. Moreover,  the breaking up of all those car bits would make the car itself look like a rolling puzzle for all the seams, and the integrity of the alt mode would be dubious at best for the question of how all those parts are even being held in place, as it would take millions of small linkages to hold every little bit and piece in position. The argument for their realism is laughable at best, especially if you've ever done any mechanical work on a vehicle. Too, having grown up with G1, Bay's Transformers looked nothing the sort: they were skeletal, shardy, ugly things that oft had the alt mode so shredded and whimsically placed over the bot frame that even telling what they were supposed to turn into was difficult. One of the salient features of G1 Transformers is that one can look at just about any character in bot mode and know what it's going to transform into b/c many of the alt mode features carry over by mechanical necessity. To me, that is and should always be a defining characteristic of the toys and the brand.

10 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

I wish Blackout would get the WfC, pseudo-G1 treatment that Barricade did.  In fact, one of the reasons I'm open to updated versions of Unicron Trilogy toys in the post-WfC trilogy despite hating the shows is because they're the designs that I think work best with G1.  They've got that same boxy robot with visible alt mode parts design common to the franchise before the Bayverse introduced us to more organic shapes, chicken legs, and weird hands.

I'd be down with that, similar to what they did with both Generations Lugnut and RotF Lockdown:

    

Edited May 30, 2021 by M'Kyuun

[sh9000]

https://www.target.com/p/transformers-generations-transformers-collaborative-marvel-comics-x-men-mash-up-ultimate-x-spanse/-/A-81262964

On sale for 50% off.

[technoblue]

Personally, I think this forum is better than most when it comes to respectful discourse. That doesn’t mean that communication is always tidy, though. Sometimes it takes a bit of trial and error for ideas to make it across, especially over these social networks. Anyway, it is what it is and that’s ok.

Back to Transformets…MP Starscream v2.0 is a month away. Although I’m aware only a few MW members here are tracking this one due to changing interests and third-party replacements, I’m getting hyped up.

MP Arcee was excellent and had no quality issues out if the box. My hope is that this new Starscream continues the trend. I’m also very keen to work through the transformation and compare this design to what I remember of MP-11 and MTRM-11.

[M'Kyuun]

1 hour ago, technoblue said:

Personally, I think this forum is better than most when it comes to respectful discourse. That doesn’t mean that communication is always tidy, though. Sometimes it takes a bit of trial and error for ideas to make it across, especially over these social networks. Anyway, it is what it is and that’s ok.

Back to Transformets…MP Starscream v2.0 is a month away. Although I’m aware only a few MW members here are tracking this one due to changing interests and third-party replacements, I’m getting hyped up.

MP Arcee was excellent and had no quality issues out if the box. My hope is that this new Starscream continues the trend. I’m also very keen to work through the transformation and compare this design to what I remember of MP-11 and MTRM-11.

Concerning the general civility of discourse here, I agree.  Kudos to Shawn, Graham, Mods, and the the membership, who keep it so.  We're not immune to bad apples, but most have met the business end of a boot when their bad behavior showed no signs of abating. After the toxic and often vulgar atmosphere which often permeates the TFW boards, this place is a breath of fresh air. 

Takara's takes on Starscream and Arcee didn't appeal to me, but unlike a lot of fans, I don't take it personally if you like something that I don't.  I hope both exceed your expectations, and bring you joy.  If they follow suit with the last few releases, the articulation, and thus posing options, promises to be excellent. Feel free to share a photo or two.

[lechuck]

1 hour ago, technoblue said:

Back to Transformets…MP Starscream v2.0 is a month away. Although I’m aware only a few MW members here are tracking this one due to changing interests and third-party replacements, I’m getting hyped up.

MP Arcee was excellent and had no quality issues out if the box. My hope is that this new Starscream continues the trend. I’m also very keen to work through the transformation and compare this design to what I remember of MP-11 and MTRM-11.

Still a month to go, but yeah... excitement for MP-52 is kicking in slowly. Pre-ordered from AJ, so thankfully I won't need to wait another two weeks before it lands at my doorstep.

MP Arcee is great – an idealized version of her, but still a very cohesive and engaging robot. The whole chest thing has become a none-issue for me. I would have preferred a more squared off abdominal/waist section and a little bit of rearward hip movement, but that's about it for critique.

[mikeszekely]

13 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

I'd be down with that, similar to what they did with both Generations Lugnut and RotF Lockdown:

I still have that Lockdown with my WfC stuff (though I wouldn't mind an updated one).  Still kicking myself for missing that Lugnut not once but twice, during it's original run and on discount at TJ Maxx.

12 hours ago, technoblue said:

Personally, I think this forum is better than most when it comes to respectful discourse. That doesn’t mean that communication is always tidy, though. Sometimes it takes a bit of trial and error for ideas to make it across, especially over these social networks. Anyway, it is what it is and that’s ok.

Agree, on both points.  And while Shawn and the mods have done a pretty great job keeping the trouble off this site, I think we've been extra lucky that most of said drama has occurred outside the Transformers threads considering how toxic a certain other Transformers-related board I visit can get.  But yes, misunderstandings do still occur.  And hey, if anyone's not sure what I mean, feel free to ask for clarification.  All-in-all, I'm glad that even when we disagree on stuff that at least here we try to articulate our feelings and are still respectful of other opinions.

12 hours ago, technoblue said:

MP Arcee was excellent and had no quality issues out if the box

 

10 hours ago, lechuck said:

MP Arcee is great – an idealized version of her, but still a very cohesive and engaging robot.

I mean, I don't think I dislike MP Arcee, although I admit I haven't handled her.  I just don't see anything there that makes me want to shell out another $140 or so on her when I alredy have MMC's.

If I was still stuck with Fans Toys', though, I'd gladly trade up.  FT's was probably my least favorite adult-collector-oriented toy I've ever had the displeasure of looking at.

[technoblue]

11 hours ago, lechuck said:

Still a month to go, but yeah... excitement for MP-52 is kicking in slowly. Pre-ordered from AJ, so thankfully I won't need to wait another two weeks before it lands at my doorstep.

MP Arcee is great – an idealized version of her, but still a very cohesive and engaging robot. The whole chest thing has become a none-issue for me. I would have preferred a more squared off abdominal/waist section and a little bit of rearward hip movement, but that's about it for critique.

 Nice photos! Thanks for sharing, @lechuck. 

I have an idea for something that will use MP Arcee and couple of the MMC Azalea repaints that I picked up. I just need to find the time to put it all together.  

[lechuck]

13 hours ago, technoblue said:

 Nice photos! Thanks for sharing, @lechuck. 

I have an idea for something that will use MP Arcee and couple of the MMC Azalea repaints that I picked up. I just need to find the time to put it all together.  

Thanks @technoblue. I look forward to what you have planned with Arcee and the Azaleas.

[sh9000]

https://www.amazon.com/Transformers-Generations-Collection-Sideswipe-Exclusive/dp/B08TM27396

https://hasbropulse.com/collections/partner-exclusives/products/transformers-generations-war-for-cybertron-kingdom-battle-across-time-collection-deluxe-wfc-k42-sideswipe-maximal-skywarp

[Negotiator]

...i put in a PO for the sideswipe set, but might cancel.  it's irritating they still didn't put a fin on it.  so it'll need stickers and a 3rd party fin again.

[mikeszekely]

49 minutes ago, Negotiator said:

...i put in a PO for the sideswipe set, but might cancel.  it's irritating they still didn't put a fin on it.  so it'll need stickers and a 3rd party fin again.

This.

Also kind of irritating that I need Hasbro to release Tigertrack, Deep Cover, other Deep Cover, Red Alert, and maybe Clampdown, or else Sideswipe is going to stick out.

[Wolf-1]

I passed on E.R. Mirage mainly due to the tag-along Beast Wars and while I liked the changes in both modes, I didn't feel it was something Siege can't copy with some paint in Bot mode at least, from the waist up.  That and it sold out at the two places I could find it.  Thanks for the links!  Sideswipe is one I will go ahead and swallow the pride for.  If Red Alert or a Siege Clampdown had been packaged with Artfire, would have jumped without thought. Not a Target/Head/Power Master fan, in execution; in theory or animation it works. Hope my nephew is adding Beast Wars to the Christmas list.

[M'Kyuun]

It's irritating that they're releasing an earth mode Sideswipe, but double packing it with a BW fig I don't want. Siege Sideswipe's alt mode is close enough for me, so I'll be passing on this set. And yeah, it's irritating that this Sideswipe doesn't have a spoiler either.

[mikeszekely]

23 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

It's irritating that they're releasing an earth mode Sideswipe, but double packing it with a BW fig I don't want. Siege Sideswipe's alt mode is close enough for me, so I'll be passing on this set. And yeah, it's irritating that this Sideswipe doesn't have a spoiler either.

I mean, you could probably just sell Skywarp (and Grimlock, for that matter).  I'm sure that there's someone out there thinking "it's irritating that they're releasing BW Skywarp, but double packing it with a G1 figure I don't want".

I'm crossing my fingers and hoping the spoilers Nonnef made for the Siege version work on the Earth version.  Right now I'm passing Siege off as an Earth mode, but if I have an actual Earth mode I don't mind a spoiler-free Cybertronian mode.

Now can I get an Earth-mode Hound, please?

Edited June 2, 2021 by mikeszekely

[M'Kyuun]

36 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

I mean, you could probably just sell Skywarp (and Grimlock, for that matter).  I'm sure that there's someone out there thinking "it's irritating that they're releasing BW Skywarp, but double packing it with a G1 figure I don't want".

I'm crossing my fingers and hoping the spoilers Nonnef made for the Siege version work on the Earth version.  Right now I'm passing Siege off as an Earth mode, but if I have an actual Earth mode I don't mind a spoiler-free Cybertronian mode.

Now can I get an Earth-mode Hound, please?

I could, but selling stuff has never been my strong suit- I have a pack rat mentality, and it's hard to let stuff go. I'm not quite to the hoarder stage, but the warning signs are probably there.  But yeah, you're right- different strokes... 

I say I'm not gonna get Kingdom Sideswipe, but I'll likely cave- that's what I do.

As for Earth mode Hound, I'm sure they've got another double pack exclusive in the works- give it time. That I might bite on if it's well done, as Siege Hound just didn't capture the G1 look or feel, and a more faithful version would be nice to have. I'm still extremely partial to Classics Hound; he's one of my absolute favorite Transformer figs ever, a brilliant fig that was doing what the WfC figs are doing articulation-wise fourteen years ago.  Classics Hound, Mirage, and Bumblebee still stand out in my mind (and heart) as some of the best TF figs I own amongst hundreds. 

[Mechapilot77]

honestly sideswipe should have switched over to this mold during earthrise.  they released how many repaints?  lol.  not rebuying all of them.  not even sure i'll buy this one.  its not even that good a countach.  the hood looks way more accurate...the rest kinda does but i'm not sure i prefer the overall look to my upgraded siege sideswipe.  hate its bundled with some bullshit i don't want.  we'll see i guess.

[mikeszekely]

If you never picked up Siege Refraktor BBTS, TFSource, and Entertainment Earth are taking preorders for the toy-colored 3-pack with  the extra camera parts.

[Wolf-1]

18 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

I'm crossing my fingers and hoping the spoilers Nonnef made for the Siege version work on the Earth version.  Right now I'm passing Siege off as an Earth mode, but if I have an actual Earth mode I don't mind a spoiler-free Cybertronian mode.

 

From the photos on Pulse, it looks like they've neglected the 5mm ports at the very back and changed the shape of where Nonnef's filler pieces go as well.  There does appear to be a slot cut into the rear portion of the rear quarter-panels which should allow for some sort of spoiler.  While I haven't purchased one, I don't think the other popular "spoiler kit" will work either; seems like it will require a new kit.

[mikeszekely]

4 hours ago, Wolf-1 said:

From the photos on Pulse, it looks like they've neglected the 5mm ports at the very back and changed the shape of where Nonnef's filler pieces go as well.  There does appear to be a slot cut into the rear portion of the rear quarter-panels which should allow for some sort of spoiler.  While I haven't purchased one, I don't think the other popular "spoiler kit" will work either; seems like it will require a new kit.

Yeah, I looked a bit closer and you're right.  Dang.

Well, I don't know about G2 Sideswipe, Deep Cover, the other Deep Cover, Tigertrack, or Clampdown... but Earth-mode Red Alert sure looks like a thing...

[twich]

On 5/30/2021 at 8:45 AM, technoblue said:

Personally, I think this forum is better than most when it comes to respectful discourse. That doesn’t mean that communication is always tidy, though. Sometimes it takes a bit of trial and error for ideas to make it across, especially over these social networks. Anyway, it is what it is and that’s ok.

Back to Transformets…MP Starscream v2.0 is a month away. Although I’m aware only a few MW members here are tracking this one due to changing interests and third-party replacements, I’m getting hyped up.

MP Arcee was excellent and had no quality issues out if the box. My hope is that this new Starscream continues the trend. I’m also very keen to work through the transformation and compare this design to what I remember of MP-11 and MTRM-11.

I am interested in the Masterpiece Starscream ver 2.0, and was interested to see that they have changed the main landing gear placement for the toy, I was glad that it wasnt the little stubby wheels that flip out of the kneecaps that we got on the MP-3/11 molds.

Twich

[M'Kyuun]

Geek Culture appear to be the first reviewers to get their hands on The Ark. TFW2005 has posted a number of stills from the vid as well.

I dig it, and I'm glad I've got it PO'd. That said, the big gaping holes along the sides of his ship mode and the poorly articulated hands, which look like he's wearing heavy rubber dishwashing gloves, make me hope that there'll be some third party fixes. I still wish they'd found a way to give him his fifth and center engine- it could have swung up onto his back as a jetpack, if nothing else. Alas, they didn't so that remains a glaring bit of inaccuracy to the original source that'll be nigh impossible to remedy due to the design. I like the robot's design, though, and apparently the head is based on "the Last Autobot" from G1 comics, so a nice nod there to early lore.

[sh9000]

LEK.

[technoblue]

10 hours ago, twich said:

I am interested in the Masterpiece Starscream ver 2.0, and was interested to see that they have changed the main landing gear placement for the toy, I was glad that it wasnt the little stubby wheels that flip out of the kneecaps that we got on the MP-3/11 molds.

Ditto.  After experiencing MP-3/11 and MTRM-11, I think MP-52 Starscream stands to have the better gear-down look. I do wish Takara had been able to figure out how to cut or hide away that extra bot kibble in alt mode and preserve the sleek shape of the F-15, although I'm not too fussed by what we did get. What really draws me to this is that there's more articulation, more gimmicks to mess around with, and that the three main seekers will be out by the end of the year.

The only remaining unknown is quality, so I'm crossing my fingers for that to be consistent.