Scream Man Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) My issues with the ending, no matter what they are are this: Reveal hidden contents 1 - The loss of the Mass Relays. To me, this means the characters are all stranded, and the galaxy will fall into worse chaos than before. This doesn't feel like a 'win' to me at all. 2 - Normandys escape. As many have said; why oh WHY is the Normandy going anywhere with the crew aboard, that doesnt make a lot of sense. 3 - Choice doesn't matter. NO decision you have made in the games to that point make a smidge of difference. And the 3 Endings are basically the same anyway. 4 - No personal conclusion. If Shep dies at the end, so be it. But the rest of the cast needs some sort of final moment together, even if its them all mourning at his grave. If Miranda is my one true love (As she is in mine) then I want to see how she reacts to my death. As to what the future holds; I'd get DLC for this if it gives a different ending. Hell, I'd probably pay for it. but I'll be damned if i let Bioware do it to me again, specially after Dragon Age 2, which destroyed that franchise for me. Edited March 15, 2012 by Scream Man Quote
Duke Togo Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) On 3/15/2012 at 6:18 AM, Scream Man said: My issues with the ending, no matter what they are are this: Reveal hidden contents 1 - The loss of the Mass Relays. To me, this means the characters are all stranded, and the galaxy will fall into worse chaos than before. This doesn't feel like a 'win' to me at all. 2 - Normandys escape. As many have said; why oh WHY is the Normandy going anywhere with the crew aboard, that doesnt make a lot of sense. 3 - Choice doesn't matter. NO decision you have made in the games to that point make a smidge of difference. And the 3 Endings are basically the same anyway. 4 - No personal conclusion. If Shep dies at the end, so be it. But the rest of the cast needs some sort of final moment together, even if its them all mourning at his grave. If Miranda is my one true love (As she is in mine) then I want to see how she reacts to my death. As to what the future holds; I'd get DLC for this if it gives a different ending. Hell, I'd probably pay for it. but I'll be damned if i let Bioware do it to me again, specially after Dragon Age 2, which destroyed that franchise for me. Ok, so I'll address your points one by one: Reveal hidden contents 1 - The Relays had to go. Look at the title of the series: "Mass Effect." The Reapers used the Mass Relays and the technology that is built around them to control the path of development in the galaxy. For the numerous species of the galaxy to be free of the Reaper's legacy (and thus head down their own path), the Relays had to be taken out of the equation. This was established in the very first game, and should not be a surprise. Unchained from this technology, newer and better methods of intergalactic travel will arrise. Quantum communication (as established in ME2) is just the beginning. 2 - This is a big one, and my one real problem with the ending. I have no answer for this. 3 - The entirety of ME3 is the "ending" of the Shepard series, and clearly your choices made a difference. However, you have an argument, and it's one I don't totally disagree with. 4 - You had your personal conclusion. Heck, most of the game involved making peace and saying goodbye to friends and allies. Too many people are fixated on the last 5-10 minutes, when in truth the game's ending starts long before that (I'd argue it starts when ME3 starts). If you didn't get the personal closure you seek, I'd be left to wonder how much dialog you missed. Edited March 15, 2012 by Duke Togo Quote
eugimon Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 On 3/15/2012 at 4:07 PM, Duke Togo said: Ok, so I'll address your points one by one: Reveal hidden contents 1 - The Relays had to go. Look at the title of the series: "Mass Effect." The Reapers used the Mass Relays and the technology that is built around them to control the path of development in the galaxy. For the numerous species of the galaxy to be free of the Reaper's legacy (and thus head down their own path), the Relays had to be taken out of the equation. This was established in the very first game, and should not be a surprise. Unchained from this technology, newer and better methods of intergalactic travel will arrise. Quantum communication (as established in ME2) is just the beginning. 2 - This is a big one, and my one real problem with the ending. I have no answer for this. 3 - The entirety of ME3 is the "ending" of the Shepard series, and clearly your choices made a difference. However, you have an argument, and it's one I don't totally disagree with. 4 - You had your personal conclusion. Heck, most of the game involved making peace and saying goodbye to friends and allies. Too many people are fixated on the last 5-10 minutes, when in truth the game's ending starts long before that (I'd argue it starts when ME3 starts). If you didn't get the personal closure you seek, I'd be left to wonder how much dialog you missed. Reveal hidden contents Well, you get GREAT send offs with characters like Garrus, Liara and Tali and even Jack but you really get short with most of the ME2 cast and considering a lot of them were romanceable in ME2, having a holo call with Miranda right before you go and off yourself can feel a bit hollow. I do think a lot of people are forgetting that there still is regular FTL without the mass relays and that Liara seeds the galaxy with all the accumulated technological and historical information, add in that some worlds still have access to Prothean technology, it's not inconceivable that more advanced races will quickly get back on top... or not, considering the krogan are all over the turian homeoworld without Wrex to keep them in line Quote
Duke Togo Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 Well, you have to admit, Eugimon, it is a wonderful setup for the next game in the franchise. Quote
eugimon Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 On 3/15/2012 at 5:40 PM, Duke Togo said: Well, you have to admit, Eugimon, it is a wonderful setup for the next game in the franchise. yup, there's a LOT going on at the end of me3 Reveal hidden contents The krogan might or might not be a new galactic threat depending on whether or not the female shaman survived or not the quarian/geth are arguably the largest and most relevant fleet in the galaxy considering FTL is slower than relay transit and they have the most experience with long periods of time in ships All of the Council races are decimated, all lost their homeworlds. The batarians are the new quarians, having no homeworld but are also spread through alliance space with a grduge... And depending on how far in the future ME4 is set, Miranda and Liara and EDI could still be alive and kicking. So yeah, a new power paradigm with the minor races suddenly thrust into the lead, the asari watching their dominance come to a devastating end and the salarians exposed as reckless genetic manipulators... yeah, ME4 has a great foundation for some awesome stories. Quote
Duke Togo Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) So disheartening... "The Final Hours," a documentary and document on the creation of ME3 is out for iPad (other platforms coming soon), and it pretty much confirms Reveal hidden contents that Bioware screwed the pooch with the ending. There are no secrets or hidden meanings in the ending--it is exactly what it seems: a poorly written mess. Edited March 15, 2012 by Duke Togo Quote
eugimon Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 Quote We appreciate everyone’s feedback about Mass Effect 3 and want you to know that we are listening. Please note, we want to give people time to experience the game so while we can’t get into specifics right now, we will be able to address some of your questions once more people have had time to complete the game. Let’s also remember the man/woman that started this journey for us. What do you love most about your Commander Shepard? Please try to keep the discussion “spoiler-free. This just went out on facebook by the official Mass Effect 2 page. Quote
Scream Man Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 On 3/15/2012 at 4:07 PM, Duke Togo said: Ok, so I'll address your points one by one: Reveal hidden contents 1 - The Relays had to go. Look at the title of the series: "Mass Effect." The Reapers used the Mass Relays and the technology that is built around them to control the path of development in the galaxy. For the numerous species of the galaxy to be free of the Reaper's legacy (and thus head down their own path), the Relays had to be taken out of the equation. This was established in the very first game, and should not be a surprise. Unchained from this technology, newer and better methods of intergalactic travel will arrise. Quantum communication (as established in ME2) is just the beginning. 2 - This is a big one, and my one real problem with the ending. I have no answer for this. 3 - The entirety of ME3 is the "ending" of the Shepard series, and clearly your choices made a difference. However, you have an argument, and it's one I don't totally disagree with. 4 - You had your personal conclusion. Heck, most of the game involved making peace and saying goodbye to friends and allies. Too many people are fixated on the last 5-10 minutes, when in truth the game's ending starts long before that (I'd argue it starts when ME3 starts). If you didn't get the personal closure you seek, I'd be left to wonder how much dialog you missed. Well... Reveal hidden contents 1 - I don't agree with that. I chose to end the loss of Synthetic life in the galaxy, so... Reapers are gone. Blowing up the relays is the equivalent of destroying all the aircraft and long range communications on Earth; Sure u can get around by boat, and deliver letters but its a lot slower. The galaxy is facing hundreds of years of chaos. In the extreme long term could everything be OK.... Sure. But i don't really care about that. Its too impersonal for me. 2 - OK. 3 - I guess so. I mean I see that argument, but it just feels like the ending doesn't mean much. Up until the last 5 minutes i was emotionally invested and hooked. When it actually ended, I felt nothing. I wasn't angry yet, but I knew i wasn't happy. I was just... done. At the end of ME1 and 2 I was just super excited and psyched for more. And now we come to the finale and... nothing. And I found out that the main difference in endings is the colour of the beam. I know I know, there's other small changes... but really the differences are cosmetic. And for me... that's just not enough. 4 - Eugimon covered this one pretty well. I said goodbye to the woman my Shep loved via hologram. That's not good enough for me. The continued hints that bioware has another ending, and has had it all along only annoy me further Quote
Benson13 Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Regarding #4, I prefer the hologram way. Makes my life easy. It's the way I would've done it. If I could've gotten away with a text or email, that would've been better but that's just me. Quote
eugimon Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 I do agree that the holo kind fits with that particular character. Her head was never really in the war Reveal hidden contents for Jacob, Miranda, Samara... well, for a lot of the ME2 crowd, really, they were roped into Shepard's mission and I can see how a lot of them would have really just gotten caught up in their own personal lives... even if Shep humped them a couple years ago Quote
BeyondTheGrave Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 On 3/15/2012 at 4:07 PM, Duke Togo said: Ok, so I'll address your points one by one: Reveal hidden contents 1 - The Relays had to go. Look at the title of the series: "Mass Effect." The Reapers used the Mass Relays and the technology that is built around them to control the path of development in the galaxy. For the numerous species of the galaxy to be free of the Reaper's legacy (and thus head down their own path), the Relays had to be taken out of the equation. This was established in the very first game, and should not be a surprise. Unchained from this technology, newer and better methods of intergalactic travel will arrise. Quantum communication (as established in ME2) is just the beginning. 2 - This is a big one, and my one real problem with the ending. I have no answer for this. 3 - The entirety of ME3 is the "ending" of the Shepard series, and clearly your choices made a difference. However, you have an argument, and it's one I don't totally disagree with. 4 - You had your personal conclusion. Heck, most of the game involved making peace and saying goodbye to friends and allies. Too many people are fixated on the last 5-10 minutes, when in truth the game's ending starts long before that (I'd argue it starts when ME3 starts). If you didn't get the personal closure you seek, I'd be left to wonder how much dialog you missed. On 3/15/2012 at 11:29 PM, Scream Man said: Well... Reveal hidden contents 1 - I don't agree with that. I chose to end the loss of Synthetic life in the galaxy, so... Reapers are gone. Blowing up the relays is the equivalent of destroying all the aircraft and long range communications on Earth; Sure u can get around by boat, and deliver letters but its a lot slower. The galaxy is facing hundreds of years of chaos. In the extreme long term could everything be OK.... Sure. But i don't really care about that. Its too impersonal for me. 2 - OK. 3 - I guess so. I mean I see that argument, but it just feels like the ending doesn't mean much. Up until the last 5 minutes i was emotionally invested and hooked. When it actually ended, I felt nothing. I wasn't angry yet, but I knew i wasn't happy. I was just... done. At the end of ME1 and 2 I was just super excited and psyched for more. And now we come to the finale and... nothing. And I found out that the main difference in endings is the colour of the beam. I know I know, there's other small changes... but really the differences are cosmetic. And for me... that's just not enough. 4 - Eugimon covered this one pretty well. I said goodbye to the woman my Shep loved via hologram. That's not good enough for me. The continued hints that bioware has another ending, and has had it all along only annoy me further Regarding number one: Reveal hidden contents Mass Relays exploding are equal to a supernova. so everyone should be dead. Quote
Duke Togo Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Scream, you missed my point entirely on number 1. You also missed what the game itself has been telling you since the original. And your analogy is way off. Something newer and better will fill their role. And no, there aren't any heavy hints of another ending--that was all fan-driven speculation that has pretty much gone poof. Whether they change something at this point is unknown. And Beyond, that was an entirely different circumstance. It's nitpicking by the fanbase because they can--not because its logical. Doesn't take a rocket surgeon to see why it's different. Quote
BeyondTheGrave Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) I think it's in the codex. Edited March 16, 2012 by BeyondTheGrave Quote
Duke Togo Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 On 3/16/2012 at 1:55 AM, BeyondTheGrave said: I think it's in the codex. You're missing the point, Beyond. You can kill someone with a knife, and you can kill someone with a bullet, and they're going to create two entirely different scenes. Quote
eugimon Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Completely different scenarios. Reveal hidden contents In me2 you have a bunch of monkeys blowing one up on purpose by crashing an asteroid into it and in me3, the entity that built them uses the relays to disperse an energy wave that happens to destroy the relay. Like letting the air out of a balloon vs poppin one. Quote
Freiflug88 Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) On 3/14/2012 at 2:09 AM, David Hingtgen said: No one's commented on the best adverb ever? Or am I the only one who listens to the "Blasto" ads on the Citadel? Badassfully: Listening to the 10 minutes of "Blasto" ads bore me. But I must say this "blasto" fanart is going to be my wallpaper for a while. Also don't know why... but I want leave this pic here. Reveal hidden contents Personally the bit about the Normandy being inside a Mass Relay tunnel before getting caught up in the relay explosion actually makes perfect sense to me. My take is that the Normandy and crew were on their way to ilos "hoping to reunite with Shepard" : The Normandy crew are obviously unaware of his severe injuries and expecting the best outcome they probably believe Shepard found a vehicle and escaped the Citadel alive. With this in mind Shepard's best escape route seems to have been the nearby Citadel relay-> to the illos planetside relay. The crew look way too happy for people marooned on a jungle world... unless of course an jungle world such as ilos was their destination anyway. Towards the end of the game Garrus and Tali like to talk about how things feel "just like old times facing the the geth against all odds three years ago on ilos", etc. Considering that I always see them stepping off the crashed Normandy (provided they survived the suicide mission of course), I get the feeling this is mention of illos is more than a mere coincidence. The music also seems to be a big hint. The happy tune that plays when the crew step out of the Normandy sounds a bit like a remix of the ilos battle theme. But the background music for the after-credits "Stargazer" scene is unmistakeably the "Vigil" (damaged Prothean VI on illos) melody. The only possible doubt I have is whether or not ilos had dual moons. According to Mass Effects wiki site Edited March 16, 2012 by Freiflug88 Quote
CoryHolmes Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 So I just finished the game. I have to say, that despite being forewarned about the ending (thread titles like "Issues with ME3 ending!" are a big clue, even without reading the thread itself) I was honestly left quite... unfulfilled. Let down, if it were, by the endings. I just didn't get a sense of closure, of completness. Eugimon and The Duke have articulated my thoughts well enough, but I can honestly say that I think BioWare seriously dropped the ball here. The endings to ME and ME2 were so epic and awesome that this... just doesn't stack up with it. But! Let's talk about some of the good for a change! Epic scope. It doesn't get much bigger than "utter annihilation" and "war for the heavens", and this was captured perfectly. What really sold me on it was the little side conversations you hear in and around the Citadel. The PTSD asari in the hospital and the teenage refugee in the slums just drove home the personal side to this conflict. Not everyone is a PC like Shepard, and these two prove it. Even better was that we didn't get all of their story at once, I had to keep going back to the station to see the next bit. Given the grim nature of the game, I don't think I was out of line to expect the utter worst from their stories. Fabulous characters. I don't care what anyone says, but characters are what BioWare does best; and this is no exception. I thought Garrus really came into his own in ME2 as Archangel, but in this game I could see and feel the bond of friendship growing between him and Shepard. From their little dally above the Presidium and their heartfelt conversation before the end, I can truely say that Garrus is one person I'd love to have in any game. I even had a few Manly Tears during their final goodbye... Romance. I just might be a closet sap and hopeless romantic (okay, not so closet anymore...) but I loved the journey I took with Ashley. I came thiiiiiiiiis close to dumping her after Horizon in ME2 but I stayed strong and ignored Miranda's ample charms (not easy, btw) and I thought their reunion in this one was just so awesome. I especially enjoyed their little get-together just before the final mission. Ashley's voice-acting just did me in. Damnit, more manly tears! So what about you? What was your favourite part that the game did right? Quote
Benson13 Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 The credits, and the first 95% of the game. Quote
Archer Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 Ok, so I'm at a dillemma guys. I got Mass Effect III as a gift, but I've never played the first two. I've heard about how awesome they are as games though, and would LOVE to play this one. I'm wondering if just reading the wiki's and stuff on this (for like 5 hours) should be good enough to catch up and stuff, and thoroughly enjoy the game. Or should I just trade it in for something else...? Quote
David Hingtgen Posted March 17, 2012 Author Posted March 17, 2012 You should above all else, watch and listen to every second of "the conversation with Sovereign" and then "the conversation with Vigil" in ME1. IMHO that is the core of all of ME's mythology, really. Plus it's the whole reasoning/warning/prelude of what the reapers are, what they did in the past, how they do it, etc. Both events happen near the end of the first game though, and are massive spoilers if you ever want to play the first game. Of course, they're basically massive spoilers for the entire series... And frankly---ME2 is a side-story. A really good one. But it has little to do with the overall plot. ME3 is really more of a direct sequel to ME1 than ME2 was. ME2 is basically "hey, Cerberus is evil and run by this guy". You could have gotten that from the books/comics. ME3 has more "call outs to previous events" than anything I've ever encountered. Be it book, movie, or game, nothing has more in-jokes/references. A thousand little things. Many are just a single line, but you won't "get it" without having played the earlier ones. Personally, I find ME2 to be the low point of the series. Quote
Archer Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 Thanks for the heads up David. I also began to read this: http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Storyline Seems to be pretty indepth coverage of most of the stuff in Mass Effect. I will check out those vids after reading through this indepth though. Quote
BeyondTheGrave Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) On 3/16/2012 at 2:06 AM, Duke Togo said: You're missing the point, Beyond. You can kill someone with a knife, and you can kill someone with a bullet, and they're going to create two entirely different scenes. but the result is still the same. just watched the ending it just doesn't make sense. Only thing i could think of is that they want to make a Schrödinger's Cat ending. Edited March 17, 2012 by BeyondTheGrave Quote
Benson13 Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 On 3/17/2012 at 3:04 AM, Archer said: Ok, so I'm at a dillemma guys. I got Mass Effect III as a gift, but I've never played the first two. I've heard about how awesome they are as games though, and would LOVE to play this one. I'm wondering if just reading the wiki's and stuff on this (for like 5 hours) should be good enough to catch up and stuff, and thoroughly enjoy the game. Or should I just trade it in for something else...? I say play them. It's a great series. Right from the beginning when Jenkins runs into battle with the WOW reference everything is great. Quote
eugimon Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 ending makes complete sense, it's completely consistent with the mythology set up going all the way back to the first game. If there are any fans of classic science fiction, there's a lot of parallels with a lot of books, one of the most obvious being God Emperor of Dune with the Citadel/Reapers a kind of Leto II. Quote
Duke Togo Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 On 3/17/2012 at 6:07 AM, eugimon said: ending makes complete sense, it's completely consistent with the mythology set up going all the way back to the first game. The Normandy scene makes no sense whatsoever. On 3/17/2012 at 5:21 AM, BeyondTheGrave said: but the result is still the same. No, you're still not getting it. The level of trauma is completely different. Quote
Freiflug88 Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 On 3/17/2012 at 5:21 AM, BeyondTheGrave said: but the result is still the same. just watched the ending it just doesn't make sense. Only thing i could think of is that they want to make a Schrödinger's Cat ending. I think they were going with 3 slightly different flavors of the "battle star galactica" ending. Quote
CoryHolmes Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 On 3/17/2012 at 3:14 PM, Freiflug88 said: I think they were going with 3 slightly different flavors of the "battle star galactica" ending. In no way, shape, or form, is that a good thing. The endings felt like a mix of BSG, Sopranos, DS9, ST: Generations. Quote
eugimon Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 On 3/17/2012 at 1:25 PM, Duke Togo said: The Normandy scene makes no sense whatsoever. well, yeah. I was referring to the more recent conversation on the citadel and the relays. The bit with the normandy is really wonky no matter how you massage it. Quote
Duke Togo Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 On 3/17/2012 at 5:04 PM, CoryHolmes said: In no way, shape, or form, is that a good thing. The endings felt like a mix of BSG, Sopranos, DS9, ST: Generations. But The Sopranos ending makes sense if you paid attention to the conversation Bobby Bacala had with Tony a few episodes before the ending. Their life goes on--it's the viewers who got whacked (hence the sudden cut to black). Quote
taksraven Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 A review for Mass Effect 3. One of the best reviews of a computer game EVAR!!!! Quote
BeyondTheGrave Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) On 3/17/2012 at 1:25 PM, Duke Togo said: No, you're still not getting it. The level of trauma is completely different. OK now i understand what your saying. But the end result should still be the same. Reveal hidden contents The problem is that the player sees the relay explode into several pieces. Now it'd be different if were like in the matrix when they used an emp and it disabled all electronics. But instead of an emp you get whatever colored light show energy pulse and afterward the mass relay is disabled On a light note: Madden Effect BOOM! Edited March 18, 2012 by BeyondTheGrave Quote
Freiflug88 Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 On 3/17/2012 at 5:04 PM, CoryHolmes said: In no way, shape, or form, is that a good thing. The endings felt like a mix of BSG, Sopranos, DS9, ST: Generations. Agreed. Though I must say putting Shepard and his/her romantic interest in a “Nexus”-like ending could have been a great way to conclude Shepard's story and supply the 16 or so unique endings the fans really wanted IMO. In other words a supply of sappy Gladiator endings to end things on a happy note, but with much more variety and effort then simply recycling character models that stand around on a grass field or something. Quote
Omegablue Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 I recently got ME2 on the PES3. When I started playing it at midnight for the first time, I decided to stop when I felt tired... which was 10:00am and didn't notice the sun was already up, nor heard the morning traffic or birds... Horribly addictive. Had to stop and will resume that and then ME3 a few months later after I get various work projects done. Good game though. Quote
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