DX VF-25 Renewal Series (Part III)

[Kyp Durron]

Does anyone really know why they made these Valks with a gloss finish as opposed to a flat finish?



-Kyp

[wm cheng]

All the Bandai Valks seem to have this horrible gloss finish. It shows off every swirl, scratch and mar from the factory - I honestly don't know why they chose it, it makes them all look so much more "toy-like" and its a horrible finish to try and any clear coat just slides right off (scratches) the slick plastic making it even more difficult to weather and customize. My only guess is that it hides all the machine grease or release mold agents from the factory (as its the greasiest toys I've ever owned) ;-) or there was this obscure scene where a character runs his hand over the forward fuselage in the hanger and can see his reflection in the body of the Messiah - so they think they're all super glossy. (argh! can you sense my frustration)

[Loop]

Kawamori was pretty adamant with Yamato making the Mac 7 VF-19 series shiny too, maybe he had something to do with it? I would prefer all my valks to be matte but what can I do?

[jenius]

I like my toys to look like toys. Gloss FTW! Make models matte.

[xrentonx]

They can be toys and look good, right? (Yes, I realize this is a matter of opinion)

I'm in the matte camp. I like my toys to look as real as possible and not like toys. Gloss belongs on cars!

[Scyla]

I like the glossy plastic on the Frontier Valkyries. They look good. The colors seem to pop a bit more. However the matte plastic on the Yamato toys I own looks good too.

I have no preferences on that but they should keep it consistent.

The VF-19S from Macross 7 looks out of place between the VF-17S and VF-22S in my shelf. I think the VF-19 is the best toy I own on its own merits but I would like it even more if it would be matte like the others. Don't get me started on the size differences and the ankles.

[MacrossJunkie]

Both the VF-19's and Bandai's stuff is glossy plastic and with that, they're also fingerprint magnets and as wm cheng said, have those swirls and show scratches easily. I really hate that. At least with the other Yamato releases, the textured plastic also prevents ugly fingerprints from showing up.

I think Bandai just does glossy because it's probably easier than making the molds have a textured surface.

They can be toys and look good, right? (Yes, I realize this is a matter of opinion)

I'm in the matte camp. I like my toys to look as real as possible and not like toys. Gloss belongs on cars!

I don't mind gloss so much when it's actual glossy paint. It has a different look to it than glossy plastic which looks cheap to me.

Back when I was collecting them, I preferred the Takara Binaltech Transformers to the Hasbro Alternators because of this.

Edited October 27, 2013 by MacrossJunkie

[mechaninac]

... My only guess is that it hides all the machine grease or release mold agents from the factory...

...

I think Bandai just does glossy because it's probably easier than making the molds have a textured surface.

...

MacrossJunkie is closer to the reason, but it's cost, not ease, that is the determining factor. In order to produce a high gloss finish on a molded plastic part, the tool cavities have to be polished to a very high degree, and in order to achieve a matt finish the inside surfaces of the molds also have to be considerably polished to then be textured, so that a gloss finish is less expensive than a matt one; also, wear and tear on textured mold-tool surfaces is considerably higher that on polished ones (ejection friction, specially on "vertical" faces, plays havoc on the minute bumps and pits that create the matt effect); therefore requiring far more maintenance (texture re-etching) than the polished alternative... matt costs more.

Edited October 27, 2013 by mechaninac

[Kyp Durron]

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my VF-25A, it's my favorite Valk, with the Yamato VF-1S Roy "Low Vis" version a close second. I don't really mind the gloss, but I would take matte over it any day, given the option to do so.



-Kyp

[Chronocidal]

Oh, so funny discovery... you know how people have been discussing putting tape over the nose tip to keep the point from getting the paint scratched off when going to battroid?

I think the VF-25A actually has the panel on top of the nose molded in color. If anyone's scraped any paint off it themselves, I guess not, but I scratched at the underside of the tip with a hobby knife, and either the paint is really thick, or that entire upper panel is molded in that dark green. Given the instrument panel is green too, I'm thinking it might all be molded in that color.

[skullmilitia]

Non stealth, non-camo aircraft are typically gloss in any color other than grey.

Any white or bright colored aircraft are almost always gloss.

[MacrossJunkie]

Oh, so funny discovery... you know how people have been discussing putting tape over the nose tip to keep the point from getting the paint scratched off when going to battroid?

I think the VF-25A actually has the panel on top of the nose molded in color. If anyone's scraped any paint off it themselves, I guess not, but I scratched at the underside of the tip with a hobby knife, and either the paint is really thick, or that entire upper panel is molded in that dark green. Given the instrument panel is green too, I'm thinking it might all be molded in that color.

I don't think it is because the tip had paint scraped off and I had to fix it.

Edited October 28, 2013 by MacrossJunkie

[xrentonx]

Non stealth, non-camo aircraft are typically gloss in any color other than grey.

Any white or bright colored aircraft are almost always gloss.

Sure...but it doesn't scale well, I guess? At least to my eye it doesn't. I think that's my main complaint with glossy Valks. It's probably more accurate for some aircraft that aren't low-viz or camo to be glossy but it doesn't work at that scale to me.

Edited October 28, 2013 by xrentonx

[raptormesh]

I prefer for my toys to look like models, considering how much I'm paying for them. Matte forever, looks better from any distance and feels better too.

[jenius]

So I guess the question for all you matte fans is how many more yen per toy would you be willing to pay?

[Benson13]

Do we know that making glossy plastic is actually cheaper?

[MacrossJunkie]

None. I do it myself anyway

[jenius]

Do we know that making glossy plastic is actually cheaper?

MacrossJunkie is closer to the reason, but it's cost, not ease, that is the determining factor. In order to produce a high gloss finish on a molded plastic part, the tool cavities have to be polished to a very high degree, and in order to achieve a matt finish the inside surfaces of the molds also have to be considerably polished to then be textured, so that a gloss finish is less expensive than a matt one; also, wear and tear on textured mold-tool surfaces is considerably higher that on polished ones (ejection friction, specially on "vertical" faces, plays havoc on the minute bumps and pits that create the matt effect); therefore requiring far more maintenance (texture re-etching) than the polished alternative... matt costs more.

[Benson13]

I learn something new everyday.

[MacrossJunkie]

MacrossJunkie is closer to the reason, but it's cost, not ease, that is the determining factor. In order to produce a high gloss finish on a molded plastic part, the tool cavities have to be polished to a very high degree, and in order to achieve a matt finish the inside surfaces of the molds also have to be considerably polished to then be textured, so that a gloss finish is less expensive than a matt one; also, wear and tear on textured mold-tool surfaces is considerably higher that on polished ones (ejection friction, specially on "vertical" faces, plays havoc on the minute bumps and pits that create the matt effect); therefore requiring far more maintenance (texture re-etching) than the polished alternative... matt costs more.

Sorry, I guess I didn't fully spell out my thoughts there. In my head, I was thinking easier to implement and by extension cheaper as well.

[TCracker]

just got my second piece of vf25a. the qc is as good as the first one. more pics tonight.

[Kyp Durron]

I prefer for my toys to look like models, considering how much I'm paying for them. Matte forever, looks better from any distance and feels better too.

I agree 100%.

But at least it's been done before, with Yamato's 1/60 VF-19 line, which is why it doesn't bother me as much as it would otherwise.

-Kyp

Edited October 28, 2013 by Kyp Durron

[YF-29 Durandal]

Does anyone really know why they made these Valks with a gloss finish as opposed to a flat finish?

-Kyp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te1itFN0eHU

[Benson13]

Well played Durandal. It makes total sense now.

[Scyla]

After playing (I mean simulating battle tactics) with my Frontier collection yesterday I pegged Lucas shield into the right forearm just to get rid of the gap. Now I see directly onto the ugly hinge of the Elint fin.

Better switch the shield back to the left arm or rotate it so I don't see the hinge of the fin. What do you think?

On a side note my VF-25F is holding his gun-pod with the left hand. Do we know if Alto (or the unlucky guy he inherited his machine from) is right-handed?

[MacrossJunkie]

I don't recall his VFs ever equipping a gunpod or assault knife in the left hand to attack. That said, you're allowed to pose it however you like

[Scyla]

Well I thought it would give additional protection when the hand that is gripping the gun handle is covered by the shield. Then again to tap the full potential of a shield it cannot be in held in the weapon hand.

I guess I just liked the pose the VF-25F was in when I put it in the cabinet. Always looking at this nice looking shield.

[OzmaLee74]

Does anybody know the official release date of the VF-25G super parts?

[charger69]

AE says it's out

[OzmaLee74]

So does NY but I haven't even received a "preparation in progress" email. Anyone who ordered from NY receive a shipping notice yet?

[Scyla]

MacrossJunkie is closer to the reason, but it's cost, not ease, that is the determining factor. In order to produce a high gloss finish on a molded plastic part, the tool cavities have to be polished to a very high degree, and in order to achieve a matt finish the inside surfaces of the molds also have to be considerably polished to then be textured, so that a gloss finish is less expensive than a matt one; also, wear and tear on textured mold-tool surfaces is considerably higher that on polished ones (ejection friction, specially on "vertical" faces, plays havoc on the minute bumps and pits that create the matt effect); therefore requiring far more maintenance (texture re-etching) than the polished alternative... matt costs more.

So the reason why Yamatos VF-19 line is a shiny plastic is to make a super expensive toy not even more expensive then it is already?

So does NY but I haven't even received a "preparation in progress" email. Anyone who ordered from NY receive a shipping notice yet?

I didn't but the reason for that is that I ordered the Super Parts for the RVF-25 and VF-25G together so NY will ship them when both set are released.

[MacrossJunkie]

They made the VF-19 glossy because they started with the VF-19 Kai which was essentially a show bird and Kawamori wanted it to be glossy. Out of all the valks that Yamato came out with, the Sound Force ones would be the ones you'd expect to be glossy for sure. When they went on to do the F and S, since they shared many of the same parts and thus the molds, they just kept it glossy instead of adding the textures to the surface, presumably to keep the costs down. Perhaps going back and adding the textured surface after the molds were already in use for production was prohibitive/more trouble than it was worth.

[mechaninac]

So I guess the question for all you matte fans is how many more yen per toy would you be willing to pay?

I'd think that a 10% premium would be perfectly acceptable for matte finish; so, on a MSRP of 14000 Yen you'd see a 1400 Yen markup... plenty, if spread across all the Messiah versions + rereleases.

They made the VF-19 glossy because they started with the VF-19 Kai which was essentially a show bird and Kawamori wanted it to be glossy. Out of all the valks that Yamato came out with, the Sound Force ones would be the ones you'd expect to be glossy for sure. When they went on to do the F and S, since they shared many of the same parts and thus the molds, they just kept it glossy instead of adding the textures to the surface, presumably to keep the costs down. Perhaps going back and adding the textured surface after the molds were already in use for production was prohibitive/more trouble than it was worth.

True. Once Kawamori insisted on a high gloss finish for the Fire Valk, all subsequent models in the line, sharing most of the same parts, were saddled with gloss as well... which makes all the VF-19s look far more at home next to Bandai's not-quite-as-ultra-gloss (more than semi-gloss, but not as reflective as the 19's show car finish) Frontier lines than Yamato's every other 1/60s.

Arcadia could, if they chose to do so, have texture added to the 19's molds (at this point, with the tools already in existence, the cost would be easily amortized by sales at their jacked-up MSRPs) so that future Excaliburs released under their name would have a nice, non-reflective, scale friendly, militarily appropriate, matte finish... but that would preclude them from ever releasing another mirror finish, clownish, VF-19Kai.

Edited October 28, 2013 by mechaninac

[mechaninac]

Got my VF-25A from HS in the mail today, 13 days total transit time via SAL... not as good as my previous 7 and 6 days for the VF-25F and VF-27, respectively, but still damn good, and there is no faulting their excellent boxing job which pretty much guarantees the pristine nature of the packed contents.

First impressions:

• Gorgeous color... a grayish beige with a hint of green; I'd call it a light khaki -- taking into account my current lighting, so my perception of it's color may change under other illumination conditions.
• Wings are not as flat as on my RVF-25... better than my old renewal VF-25F & G, but a slight step back. But at least the gummy antenna is dead straight.
• Right shoulder block somewhat misaligned so that it does not sit flush with the rest of the upper fuselage... will need to go through a full transformation sequence to correct.
• Paint apps are perfect.
• Mold release oil abounds.
• Tight joints all around.
• Gunmetal colored gunpod is brilliant... why did Bandai not go this rout with all renewals (I'm aware Ozma's shares the dark colored gun)? The purple stick of the F and RVF is so crappy looking by comparison.
• Love the canopy tint color in this toy; here's hoping Isamu's 29 will have the same treatment... heck, I wish Arcadia would match it for their upcoming YF-19 too.

[OzmaLee74]

Just got the "preparation in progress" email from NY for the 25G Super Partsz