Star Trek Into Darkness, in theaters May 17, 2013

[Chewie]

The ending of the movie was greatly cheapened by Kirk being brought back so soon. His death meant nothing at all.

I enjoyed the hell out of the movie, but even more so than Khan's crew in the torpedoes(which I really didn't care about), this was what pissed me off most.

[derex3592]

I think we're all missing the most important part of the movie here people: That Karl Urban's Bones completely stole the film.

Agreed. Along with the new Kahn and Peter Weller....couldn't care less about Kirk and Spock or Scotty in this one.

[anime52k8]

BTW, bringing Kirk back at the end of the film with Khan's super-blood^TM was still a million times better than everything in Star trek III with the exception of Klingon Christopher Lloyd.

[Gakken85]

Karl Urban can do anything. He's Judge Dredd.

Chewie, I totally agree.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Gakken85

[Kelsain]

And a prince of horsemen!

Overall, the casting of the movies is really good. But Bones is perfect.

[Mommar]

BTW, bringing Kirk back at the end of the film with Khan's super-blood^TM was still a million times better than everything in Star trek III with the exception of Klingon Christopher Lloyd.

Everything about this comment, except for Christopher Lloyd, is wrong.

[Duke Togo]

Everything about this comment, except for Christopher Lloyd, is wrong.

STIII is putrid.

[jenius]

I haven't seen III in forever but I'm thrilled they didn't leave Kirk dead. It would have been unnecessary and everyone would have whined about it being a cheap cliffhanger setting up the sequel. They should have had Kirk hold Pike and yell "HAAARRRIIIIIISOONNNNNN!!!!!" and have it echo through Star Fleet academy. I think the film did a good job of flipping TWoK on its head but I don't think they had to force the same life lesson on Kirk. Young Kirk clearly does learn SOMETHING from the events so I think getting caught up on whether or not he really has dealt with the issue of death in this timeline where he hasn't even set off on his five year mission yet is just trying to draw the parallels a little too tight. Even then, you could argue that Pike's death and his own have taught him what he needs to do since he didn't really cheat death... others cheated death for him and maybe he'll learn from his very close brush.

More logic issues:
1) Humanity made Khan therefore humanity already had the ability to cure the ails of the little girl, the dead tribble, and the dead Kirk.

2) If Khan's blood could save the captain, why didn't the doctor try the blood from the other popsicles in Khan's group? Weren't they all similar to Khan and that's why they were all banished?

I have a theory why the "uninhabited area on Kronos" looked like a major industrial complex. I'm going to assume that the area is like Earth's Chernobyl; there was some radioactive event there and that's why Harrison with his super-blood can hang out there alone. Also, maybe Khan's blood is only good for repairing radiation damage. Do they ever say why the tribble is dead?

[electric indigo]

BTW, bringing Kirk back at the end of the film with Khan's super-blood^TM was still a million times better than everything in Star trek III with the exception of Klingon Christopher Lloyd.

The only justification for STIII is the introduction of the Bird of Prey design.

[Kelsain]

C'mon dude, what about the Excelsior?

[Pat S]

IMO : The only things wrong with ST:III were, Savik being played by a different actress, and Chekov's terrible wardrobe. Other than those things, that movie is win. Stealing the enterprise scene is one of my favorite out all of Star Trek.

The 2009 reboot was promising, but seemed off to me. The new one had it's moments, but overall I cannot recommend it.

Here's a great review by Red Letter Media.

[Dynaman]

C'mon dude, what about the Excelsior?

"If my Grandma had wheels she'd be a wagon". The best that can be said is that it looked far better then the Enterprise D.

[Duke Togo]

IMO : The only things wrong with ST:III were, Savik being played by a different actress, and Chekov's terrible wardrobe.

You forgot "it was bad."

[Kelsain]

Really, I liked the first half of ST3, but after that, it just got boring.

My wife had always been more of a TNG fan and never really saw TOS or the movies (except 4). After years of nudging, her enjoyment of 09 Trek was enough to convince her to watch TWOK. Of course, she loved it - as all reasonable people do. She wanted to see more, so I gave her a quick summary of ST3. She thought it sounded awesome, b/c I forgot about the boring parts. She stopped watching halfway through.

Perhaps I oversold the notion of Christopher Lloyd...

I love the Excelsior, but ST3 didn't show it well. With the low budget, Excelsior was packed with cheap sets. Plus, it looked small & stubby. I wasn't until it showed up in TNG that I realized it was a long, sleek ship & big too.

Jenius: I was thinking something similar last night about Kirk. THe Kirk on NuTrek has experience loss that the original never did. He never knew his father & had a crappy stepdad. It's not a far leap to think he might've been abused. Pike was the closest thing he had to a real father figure & losing him took its toll on Kirk. It was his motivation for the first half of the film.

[myk]

"If my Grandma had wheels she'd be a wagon". The best that can be said is that it looked far better then the Enterprise D.

Lol, to each their own but Excelsior was hideous. Galaxy class all the way!

[Mommar]

You forgot "it was bad."

It wasn't bad.

He may not know what he's talking about but in an interview on StarTrek.com Robert Orci pretty much said he wanted to do a "hard sci-fi" for the next Trek and not an action movie.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Mommar

[raptormesh]

Lol, to each their own but Excelsior was hideous. Galaxy class all the way!

Galaxy class is best class. Home in the stars!

[ErikElvis]

If I were to rock a starship it prob be an excelsior class.

[Lightning]

Excel all the way! Keep refitting and updating it til it falls apart!

[Fly4victory]

The only justification for STIII is the introduction of the Bird of Prey design.

And a new phaser for Kirk.

[Knight26]

Quick Fixes that would greatly improve Star Trek Into Darkness.

As I have stated before I did not care for the new Star Trek movie, I found there to be many poorly written scenes, and really the whole thing felt rushed and unpolished. After some thinking I feel that the following small changes would make a big improvement on the film, warning spoilers ahead:

1) At the beginning to do not have the big-E under water, aside from the issues of putting a space ship under water, it makes no logical sense to land a starship with teleporting ability on a planet. Instead have the Big-E make an atmospheric insertion to rescue Spock from the Volcano due to the interference caused by the ash cloud.

2) Get your technobabble right, Cold Fusion is a form nuclear power generation that can be done at room temperature, not a something that freezes lava, and that is just one example.

3) Instead of Starfleet demoting Kirk, simply have Admiral Pike transfer his flag to the Enterprise. Remember Kirk is the hero who saved Earth, a demotion, especially in the wake of a terrorist bombing would be a huge moral blow to all. Have Pike explain that he will be there to watchdog over Kirk and keep his decisions on the right track. Also when they meet up in the bar, have Pike make reference to Kirks service before joining Starfleet, maybe on a merchant ship as second or first officer, closing that gaping plot hole from the first film.

4) When Harrison attacks the HQ have help arrive sooner, this is Starfleet HQ after all, and when he teleports out make the device burn out giving only a rough vector that he teleported out on. This can then be used to state that he used Scottys tech to teleport onto a passing freighter outside of the system, like maybe a Tellerite, Orion or other race. Harrison then hijacks the ship and takes it to the Klingon Home World. State that it will take the ships x number of days to reach Kronos, say 4 days, but that the Enterprise can catch them if they leave now.

5) When loading the torpedoes onto the Enterprise let Scotty still protest, and make it clear that Kirk is upset because they have already lost a day waiting for the torpedoes to arrive and all supplies to be loaded. Introduce Carol Marcus (via Alias) at this point as being the expert in charge of the weapons, still have Scotty quit.

6) Give chase to Harrison, but he reaches Kronos ahead of the Enterprise, Enterprise intercepts the freighter and borrows one of their shuttles to capture Harrison, giving them a cover story. Insert a throwaway line about how Kirk has time to cool his head and not fire the super torpedoes, instead opting to capture Harrison because he is realizing that something is rotten inside Starfleet.

7) All Kronos scenes can remain the same but make reference to the area they find him in being irradiated, either from an accident or war, so they must limit their time there, even the discovery of what is in the torpedoes as the Enterprise is heading back to Earth.

Dont have Scotty inject the tribble, that is just bad science, instead just have him make reference to Kahns healing ability, stating that is why he was able to stay so long in the irradiated zone of Kronos where they found him.

9) After Harrison/Kahns interrogation, where he reveals the location of the Vengeance shipyard, have Kirk contact Scotty, quitting was all a ruse as Kirk was suspecting something amiss before they left, and had Scotty stay behind to investigate. Scotty then uses the experimental teleporter, which he repaired to teleport into the space dock of the Vengeance undetected, and as a little joke a small beagle appears right after him, he picks it up to see that the tag reads Porthos III the dog that he teleported prior to the first film, which got him exiled.

10) Have the Vengeance intercept the Enterpise on their way to Earth, and give chase, culminating with the battle over Earth. Even have ADM Marcus taunt Kirk that he sent the fleet away to reinforce the border and prepare to strike Klingon targets, ADM Marcus will be the real big bad in this.

11) Still have Scotty disable the Vengeance allowing Kirk and Kahn to board, even have Kahn still kill Marcus and teleport Kirk, Scotty, Carol and Porthos back to the Enterprise. Even have him teleport the torpedoes back aboard, but once they explode have Kirk, whose ship is crashing towards Earth appeal, to his humanity, like he did for Nero, and promise Kahn to help his people if he helps Kirk save his ship.

12) Kahn then makes the noble sacrifice to repair the warp core of the Enterprise before it can crash. Have Scotty make reference to how long he was gone, a week instead of a day. As the Enterprise is lifting away safely have them try to stop the Vengeance from crashing, but they dont have the power and are too damaged, so all they can do is slow the impact, limiting the damage, otherwise that crash would have been an extinction level event.

13) Have Kirk make good on his promise shipping Kahn and company off to an out of the way world, Seti-Alpha V, and either show them sometime in the future with Kahn still alive, having healed himself, or as they are being sent off show him smiling in his cryopod.

What these changes do is make the story more a retelling of Space Seed than Wrath of Kahn, with some TWOK reference still thrown in for good measure. It also allows for a real TWOK type sequel down the road, and for the timeline to do one of two things, given that JJ Abrams is leaving Trek, and allows whoever picks it up after him to make the choice.

1) It puts Trek back on the track towards the original timeline with minimal changes, SF realizes that things are amiss and really looks at itself and how to fix that.

2) It allows the series to continue to diverge, but in a more controlled manner, ie. Scottys transwarp teleport is for the most part a one shot deal, they cant use Kahns blood to cure death (the biggest Pandoras box they opened in this one), etc

There was no way this movie could have made everybody happy, but things could have been done to make it a really great movie, it just kept slipping off the mark.

[Roy Focker]

The ending of the movie was greatly cheapened by Kirk being brought back so soon. His death meant nothing at all.

I enjoyed the hell out of the movie, but even more so than Khan's crew in the torpedoes(which I really didn't care about), this was what pissed me off most.

Spock's death in Wraith of Khan had great meaning because he was long time friends with Kirk for what 20 years? The movie started with Kirk dealing with his own mortality (it was Kirk 50's birthday). Spock was a life long friend was making the ultimate sacrifice to save Kirk and everyone else. For this Spock's death it had to seem real and meaningful enough for them to go on a grand adventure to bring him back in the next two movies.

In this movie Kirk and Spock are bordering on Friends and frenemies. After this movie maybe they are BFF. During the movie they aren't. If this Kirk was dead for a longer time Spock could care less about bringing him back.

"He's still dead Spock"

"Yeah so?"

[peter]

Spock's death in Wraith of Khan had great meaning because he was long time friends with Kirk for what 20 years? The movie started with Kirk dealing with his own mortality (it was Kirk 50's birthday). Spock was a life long friend was making the ultimate sacrifice to save Kirk and everyone else. For this Spock's death it had to seem real and meaningful enough for them to go on a grand adventure to bring him back in the next two movies.

In this movie Kirk and Spock are bordering on Friends and frenemies. After this movie maybe they are BFF. During the movie they aren't. If this Kirk was dead for a longer time Spock could care less about bringing him back.

"He's still dead Spock"

"Yeah so?"

True, they didn't have the 20 years of friendship, but the way I looked at it was that Kirk went out of his way to save Spock, despite the fact that Spock sort of made Kirk's life hell in the first film. As this film developed, Spock's appreciation for this fact grew, as did his friendship with Kirk. Also, Spock's conversation with Spock Prime probably shed some more light on depth of their friendship. I would really have liked to know more about what they talked about, but my guess is Spock Prime spilled the beans and told him that he died to save the crew, and when Kirk selflessly took his place to make the ultimate sacrifice, it made him appreciate Kirk as a colleague and a friend.

Edited May 29, 2013 by peter

[Gakken85]

I watch Red Letter Media every Sunday or so. I think they are the best review team since Siskel and Ebert back in the day.

Completely agree with most everything they say and bring up.

I think they are a little hard on the film though, being such lovers of early Star Trek.

[miles316]

I never watched the Original series in great detail, but wasn't Kirk the soul survivor of the Star ship Republic when he was a cadet; and when Kirk was a child wasn't the colony he lived on the sight of a mass murder/atrocity both these events where referenced in the series.

I have been wondering why people keep saying Kirk never faced death in all of his years of service.

[anime52k8]

Quick Fixes that would greatly improve Star Trek Into Darkness.

As I have stated before I did not care for the new Star Trek movie, I found there to be many poorly written scenes, and really the whole thing felt rushed and unpolished. After some thinking I feel that the following small changes would make a big improvement on the film, warning spoilers ahead:

You really are just desperately looking for reasons to hate on this movie, aren't you? Edited May 29, 2013 by anime52k8

[Knight26]

Actually no I am not, I wanted to like the movie, but the issues with it were so glaring that even my 9 yr old was calling them out. The writing was just super sloppy.

[Chewie]

I think the point is, no matter how you swing it, ifs that the timeline isn't supposed to be exact.

Yeah, fate has a way of swinging everything back to where it should be, making things happen regardless of the space-time continuum, but really, making it get back to the prime-line is boring.

Question though knight, what plothole are you referring to with Kirk's past before Starfleet?

[Knight26]

The movie can't please everyone, but like I said since JJA is leaving the franchise he could have left it in a place where, if the next person running it wanted, they could set it back towards the prime timeline or diverge further, that is all I was saying there.

As for Kirk's plothole, you really expect people to believe that a drunkard from a bar with no history is going to turn into the captain of the fleet's flag ship after four years in an academy? One throwaway line about his service on a civilian ship, or some prior enlisted experience, something would have made it far more plausible, even at this late stage.

[raptormesh]

Still makes more sense than the plot on our beloved MacF where the pilots are....nvm.

[Kanedas Bike]

The movie can't please everyone, but like I said since JJA is leaving the franchise he could have left it in a place where, if the next person running it wanted, they could set it back towards the prime timeline or diverge further, that is all I was saying there.

As for Kirk's plothole, you really expect people to believe that a drunkard from a bar with no history is going to turn into the captain of the fleet's flag ship after four years in an academy? One throwaway line about his service on a civilian ship, or some prior enlisted experience, something would have made it far more plausible, even at this late stage.

Respectfully disagree. There is an underlying theme in the past two movies as others have brought up in this thread, it's that "the universe" is trying to correct itself and as such you see some parallels or similarities with the original timeline.

In that regard Kirk becoming "Kirk" with little more than 3 or 4 years in the academy work to prove that theme. All in all and plot or script issues aside I think the reboots have been a cool way to bring something fresh to the franchise (not necessarily to the genre in general), which had gotten way too long in the tooth.

-b.

[Chewie]

I think Pike's comments about his aptitude tests being off the charts and a genius level repeat offender pretty much explain why he does so well.

[big F]

A friend of mine went completely of the rails after he left school, basically if it was idiotic or damn right dangerous or would get you into trouble with the law he did it. His family gave him a choice shape up or ship out. He joined the Navy and now fast forward nearly two decades he is now second on a cruiser, his parents still cant believe he isn't in the local jail or dead.

So it proves some what that mind over matter and a big military training stick can sort you out.

[Knight26]

Yeah two decades later, not four years and straight out of the academy.

[Mommar]

Yeah two decades later, not four years and straight out of the academy.

Splitting hairs.