should macross get a remake also

[jenius]

And I'm fairly sure the toy and model sponsors, who are critical for sponsorship of the anime production would be less than keen on revisiting the VF-1 yet again, as its been done to death

So, you're saying that toy manufacturers would rather have to design all new toys then sell more of the toys they're already making? If I'm Yamato I cream my pants at the idea someone is going to make my niche product more relevant. Besides, it's a new version, there's nothing that says the VF-1 would have to look the way it did in the original... all the original mecha can be reimagined.

[sketchley]

So, you're saying that toy manufacturers would rather have to design all new toys then sell more of the toys they're already making? If I'm Yamato I cream my pants at the idea someone is going to make my niche product more relevant. Besides, it's a new version, there's nothing that says the VF-1 would have to look the way it did in the original... all the original mecha can be reimagined.

I think he's saying that the market is saturated.

Also, it's likely that Bandai might take the licence away from Yamato, making the toys unavailable (Bandai still hasn't relinquished the Frontier licence to Yamato, amiright?)

[jenius]

On the first point, saturation is a factor of demand. If one assumes a new cartoon increases demand the saturation point moves. On the second point, it's hard to say. BigWest is the ultimate licensor and they would have to have something in their contracts with the various toy vendors regarding cancellation if they ever did foresee a remake happening. I doubt any company would have such a cancellation clause (as it would screw the toy company royally) so, more likely, there'd be nothing in the contracts about that so Bandai (assuming they were the sponsor) would almost certainly make new paint schemes or entirely new looks for the VF-1 and receive exclusive rights for the new stuff from BW.

[JB0]

So how do you explain how Plus the OVA and Plus the movie change things? Can you really ignore that?

I explain it with frustration. Fortunately, all but the broadest parts of Plus are irrelevant to the franchise as a whole, so OVA VS movie discussion only shows up in Plus-specific discussions, and everyone is usually reading from the same book.

Can you ignore how Frontier the TV series, the two movies, the novels, and the manga are different? All these things are working their way into the fandom discussion and they aren't going away.

I've ignored most of Frontier, so ... apparently I can.

Speaking of Frontier, I could probably rant for weeks about the fold fissures Frontier said were responsible for fold time not being equivalent to real-time.

Stupid retcons: No remakes required.

Granted it's a little weird having the original Macross remade in animation a third (or fourth with the pachinko game) but how does that take away from what was already made?

We can deal with Robotech ruining our lives forever, so how can a remake do that any worse?

Focusing on the negative isn't how you achieve L O V E HAPPY MINMAY

*blinks*

I hadn't even factored Robotech into the equation yet!

That's the biggest source of head-to-the-wall repetitive circular discussions the franchise has right now, and no amount of remakes will change that for some time.

I am generally against remakes, though, even ignoring the frustration of bad remakes and good remakes with large changes.

I view them, in general, as a waste of perfectly good effort that could be expended on something NEW.

There's only a few places where I thought one really needed to be done, and they were because the work had a great premise but fell flat in execution. Macross didn't fall flat in execution, even if parts are, shall we say, less than perfect.

I give the newest Star Trek movie most of a pass, because Star Trek's never been much for continuity anyways(exception for late Deep Space 9). It's easy enough to take it as just another episode with some more ridiculously conflicting back story. Vulcan has no moon, Vulcan has two moons, the moon has no Vulcan, and I have no cares.

Edited February 22, 2012 by JB0

[azrael]

Also, it's likely that Bandai might take the licence away from Yamato, making the toys unavailable (Bandai still hasn't relinquished the Frontier licence to Yamato, amiright?)

Bandai actually have their own license, separate from Yamato's, so there's no need to get pull anything (i.e., Bandai has their Hi-Metal series while Yamato is putting out their "collectors" 1/60 line, and both make their own versions of various identical VFs). As for Frontier, what Bandai probably has amounts to an "exclusive" agreement from Big West. Those usually can last ~10 years, depending on the contract. Until the time period ends, other companies can't touch those product lines. I'm not terribly concerned since Bandai's Frontier-license will expire at some point and then the market will open up for other companies to make stuff.

[Pterobat]

No.

There's the usual bog-standard reasons:

-SDFM, while flawed, is a finished product, and fine as it is.

-Remakes are redundant and it's better to push forward and make something new

-A remake can "improve" visual and storytelling flaws, but will also create new ones

-In today's culture it's easier than ever to access older media, and therefore no real need to push a classic series in order for the "next generation" to discover it.

-One's enjoyment of a work depends on some combination of the original content and the time it was experienced--I can't imagine lightning striking again.

-Sometimes you get a weird joy out of the original product *because* of its imperfections/dated technology

-We already have Macross the First

Are there things in SDFM that I feel could have been improved, aesthetically and plot-wise? Sure. But there's nothing that's really so bad that it serves as justification for a remake.

Also, There is nowhere near enough original content in Robotech to support a full-blown remake. Nor should/could a remake of SDF Macross be used to somehow sever all ties with Robotech, as I've seen other fans suggest in the past.

There's also the reason that I really like the Zentradi (Yes, I'm the person Gubaba mentioned on his Macross Zero podcast, but to be fair, I gave everything Macross an equal chance), and I'm certain any SDFM remake would owe more to later portrayals than the original series: we would have DYRL designs, and characterization closer to the modern Zentradi types, both things I'm really not interested in seeing.

[i'm not dead to the human cast members, but I can't think of anything specific I would be unsatisfied about.]

I know SDFM would still be there, and all that, but it's normal not to want to see beloved things twisted around, if we're asking about a theoretical remake, the question always becomes, "Why do *I* want/not want to see one?" We geeks usually aren't altruistic enough to think about the larger impact of our wants.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Pterobat

[azrael]

Let's keep Robotech out of this thread, shall we? We can save that topic for that other thread.

[Vifam7]

I'll agree to a SDF Macross remake if you guys also agree to a remake of Macross 7.

I request Fire Bomber to be replaced with Houkago Tea Time.

[Graham]

Actually, I'd prefer a Macross 7 remake over an SDFM remake.

For a Macross 7 remake, reuse the soundrack, and audio dialogue, keep the story exactly same, keep the mecha designs exactly the same, keep the character designs exactly the same, just animate the damn thing better, have better fight chorography and less reliance on stock footage.

The only design change I'd like to see is the Protodeviln, make them a bit more scary and alien loooking perhaps.

I'd love to see Diamand Force VF-17's and Emerald Force VF-19's and VF-11C's mixing it up with Fz-109's with a Macross Plus or Macross Frontier level of animation and decent fight choreography.

But if not, I love Macross 7 so much, I'm happy with it as it is.

Graham

I am generally against remakes, though, even ignoring the frustration of bad remakes and good remakes with large changes.

I view them, in general, as a waste of perfectly good effort that could be expended on something NEW.

And I generally agree with this statement.

Graham

[JB0]

I'll agree to a SDF Macross remake if you guys also agree to a remake of Macross 7.

I request Fire Bomber to be replaced with Houkago Tea Time.

I'd watch it.

...

Okay, I wouldn't, but I'd laugh my rear off at the art. In fact, I already have.

[Sir Galahad®]

Having anyone else voice Hikaru Ichijo won't be the same with Arihiro Hase gone

[anime52k8]

I'll agree to a SDF Macross remake if you guys also agree to a remake of Macross 7.

I request Fire Bomber to be replaced with Houkago Tea Time.

No

[VF5SS]

Speaking of Frontier, I could probably rant for weeks about the fold fissures Frontier said were responsible for fold time not being equivalent to real-time.

Stupid retcons: No remakes required.

Have the mechanics of fold travel ever really mattered in the past shows? I always found it was just the excuse to give Macross its own version of the ubiquitous faster-than-light travel. A fold generally takes however long it needs to for the scene. Even when Misa and Hikaru talk about folds, the real reason for the scene is to have them argue like a tsundere couple.

I am generally against remakes, though, even ignoring the frustration of bad remakes and good remakes with large changes.

I view them, in general, as a waste of perfectly good effort that could be expended on something NEW.

There's not a finite amount of nerd energy in the universe so long as we have anima spiritia.

There's only a few places where I thought one really needed to be done, and they were because the work had a great premise but fell flat in execution. Macross didn't fall flat in execution, even if parts are, shall we say, less than perfect.

That's a rather generous way of looking at it.

I give the newest Star Trek movie most of a pass, because Star Trek's never been much for continuity anyways(exception for late Deep Space 9). It's easy enough to take it as just another episode with some more ridiculously conflicting back story. Vulcan has no moon, Vulcan has two moons, the moon has no Vulcan, and I have no cares.

Isn't that exactly the same as people complaining about the changes to the fold effect or how something was described in a source book varies from place to place?

There's also the reason that I really like the Zentradi (Yes, I'm the person Gubaba mentioned on his Macross Zero podcast, but to be fair, I gave everything Macross an equal chance), and I'm certain any SDFM remake would owe more to later portrayals than the original series: we would have DYRL designs, and characterization closer to the modern Zentradi types, both things I'm really not interested in seeing.

Hey! Gubaba's name is not on that podcast! He just provided his boyish charms and Ziggy Stardust like looks. And you're talking about our Stratos 4 show.

And I really do not see a huge shift in how the Zentradi are portrayed in the later shows than the original. They still scream DECULTURE and go moe for idol singers. Maybe some of them lost their fabulous 80's saucy frocks, but they still the same on the inside. Don't judge a giant alien bred for war by the color of his skin :3

[Renato]

L O V E HAPPY MINMAY

Argh, not again. The curse of Animeigo's dodgy transcripts lives on..... It's LOVELY MINMAY, not HAPPY MINMAY. Sorry dude..

[VF5SS]

I failed you, senator ;-;

You know despite all the terrible scenes of VF-11s blowing up, I think Macross 7 has more Plus style actions scenes than Plus itself does

maybe they could just cut out those scenes and somehow make Ashi Pro (or Reed or whatever they are now) start drawing like they used to ( ^3^)

[Dynaman]

I'll agree to a SDF Macross remake if you guys also agree to a remake of Macross 7.

Sure, why not? I couldn't loathe that show any more then I already do...

[Sir Galahad®]

Argh, not again. The curse of Animeigo's dodgy transcripts lives on..... It's LOVELY MINMAY, not HAPPY MINMAY. Sorry dude..

I think he is referring to this one in episode 13

Edited February 22, 2012 by Sir Galahad®

[Pterobat]

Hey! Gubaba's name is not on that podcast! He just provided his boyish charms and Ziggy Stardust like looks. And you're talking about our Stratos 4 show.

I listened to your Stratos 4 show....everyone should. It's very informative.

And I really do not see a huge shift in how the Zentradi are portrayed in the later shows than the original. They still scream DECULTURE and go moe for idol singers. Maybe some of them lost their fabulous 80's saucy frocks, but they still the same on the inside. Don't judge a giant alien bred for war by the color of his skin :3

Oh, I'm totally going to. Besides, DYRL changed the characters' personalities, too, including the revised Exsedol. It's a bad scene all around.

Nobody said "Deculture!" in SDF Macross; essentially giving Zentradi a catchphrase is a pretty silly idea. Also, SDFM handled the whole "otaku" thing a lot better, given that it was part of a story arc and the spies were able to love real people. The rest of Macross obviously can't do this again, but in the place there's just a "male Zentradi are always otaku lolz!" that's pretty predictable and boring in comparison.

Basically, I feel like the Zentradi are sidelined into being minor command figures or comic relief (male), and are treated as if they should be sympathetic and developed characters, but aren't really that interesting (female). There's exceptions, of course, but a lot of it seems knee-jerk derivative of SDFM without doing anything new or having what made those original characters special, and I'm thinking an SDFM remake would try to fit into these archetypes, instead of sticking to the characters that inspired them: Milia would be the only Zentradi with some character, and the rest would be plot devices.

Don't get me wrong, I *like* some of the newer Zentradi characters, but things aren't as good as they could be.

[s001]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

You already got your macross remake. It is called macross the first!

[Cobra__]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

You already got your macross remake. It is called macross the first!

Macross the First is a manga, we're discussing about an anime remake.

In any case I'm sure once Sunrise does the anime adaptation of Gundam The Origin you can bet all you want we will see an animated remake of Macross. Wether or not it will be based on the manga is left to see.

[Gubaba]

Macross the First is a manga, we're discussing about an anime remake.

In any case I'm sure once Sunrise does the anime adaptation of Gundam The Origin you can bet all you want we will see an animated remake of Macross. Wether or not it will be based on the manga is left to see.

Macross doesn't generally copy Gundam, though...

[Cobra__]

Macross doesn't generally copy Gundam, though...

Never say never. The power of the $/€/yen can make anything come true.

[Gubaba]

Never say never. The power of the $/€/yen can make anything come true.

But, for the last 30 years, it hasn't...with TONS more yen going Gundam's way.

So you're saying it'll change now? On what basis?

[VF5SS]

No you see it's like how Robotech fans said Warner Brothers would just buy Macross from Big West so they could make the LAM (land airmech).

Or threaten them somehow. Like oh no, Warner Brothers will without Dark Knight Rising from Japan if they don't get Macross ;-;

[Jefferson]

But, for the last 30 years, it hasn't...with TONS more yen going Gundam's way.

So you're saying it'll change now? On what basis?

Well, the very only thing Macross tried to copy Gundam was with the Macross Ace and Macross The First. But Macross Ace is on hiatus and The First is made by Mikimoto who takes his time to finish a manga.

[Cobra__]

But, for the last 30 years, it hasn't...with TONS more yen going Gundam's way.

So you're saying it'll change now? On what basis?

Gundam came out in 1979 and only now they're thinking about doing a remake. And why ? Because it makes money and people love the UC timeline. Why do you think projects like Macross The First came out ? If the original authors didn't give a damn about Macross they wouldn't look back now would they ? Nostalgia is a very big factor even in Japan. Hey not considering Gundam just look at Yamato. They're makling more remakes/reboots than one can shake a stick at. And if they continue doing so it means its doing ok. Big West is not stupid, they'll finance projects that have a good probability of not losing money. And Macross properties don't lose money. So doing a remake of Macross while contrary to many purists whishes can still be a possiblity. The moreso if Gundam the Origin is a success as an anime. Mark my words.

[TehPW]

wait? what? Who are Robowreck fans? Do you mean, if a large and fanancially and well Legalized company bought the rights to Macross? specifically Macross the First, with intent to bring a anime TV to run both in Japan & the US (and presumably elsewhere) as well as mechantdising?

*sigh* VF5SS, nobody cares about what a arguably small minority of people may, or may not, care about a radioactive Product (Tit for Tat) that, by it's very existance prevents 'Job Creators' from bring a Product to the US, as well as world wide. That's either Robotech or Battletech. It would be wonderful to see Macross in some form played on, i dont know, Si-Fi? To see Yamato Valkyries sold at ToyR'Us or Walmart... but it aint gonna happen until HG gives up Robotech (or even better, get bought out by BW)....

I have to ask 'em, on their forums but im fairly certain the PTB over at CBT dont even have a interest in movies or TV for their product, for the same reason BW cant or wont bring Macross to the West: Harmony Gold. From all the BS legal sh*t HG has pulled in the past decade(s), nobody in their right minds will touch such radioactive IPs... which is a same, cause i gots some monies and i would pay to see macross OR Battletech in some form or other, elsewhere besides Japan. wouldn't you?

[VF5SS]

*sigh* VF5SS, nobody cares about what a arguably small minority of people may, or may not, care about a radioactive Product

so like Btech right

[TehPW]

come on, VF5SS, you can use your BIG WORDS here on this forum... think the only the five-year old's say little words on Seseme Street...

[Old_Nash]

I'd watch it.

...

[2]

The music will be better^^

Edited February 22, 2012 by Old_Nash

[Gubaba]

Gundam came out in 1979 and only now they're thinking about doing a remake. And why ? Because it makes money and people love the UC timeline. Why do you think projects like Macross The First came out ? If the original authors didn't give a damn about Macross they wouldn't look back now would they ? Nostalgia is a very big factor even in Japan. Hey not considering Gundam just look at Yamato. They're makling more remakes/reboots than one can shake a stick at. And if they continue doing so it means its doing ok. Big West is not stupid, they'll finance projects that have a good probability of not losing money. And Macross properties don't lose money. So doing a remake of Macross while contrary to many purists whishes can still be a possiblity. The moreso if Gundam the Origin is a success as an anime. Mark my words.

Oh, please...tell me what's going on in Japan, 'cause I'm DYING to know...

[Cobra__]

Oh, please...tell me what's going on in Japan, 'cause I'm DYING to know...

Well then DIE and you'll know.

You can't even refute what I wrote so what do you want to argue about ? I gave a number or reasons for a remake of Macross having a good probability of going ahead. You on the other hand haven't given any reason for BW not going ahead with a remake.

[Gubaba]

Well then DIE and you'll know.

You can't even refute what I wrote so what do you want to argue about ? I gave a number or reasons for a remake of Macross having a good probability of going ahead. You on the other hand haven't given any reason for BW not going ahead with a remake.

Christ, okay...

COST COST COST.

That and the fact that (as I pointed out previously, but you ignored) Frontier has already brought in a new generation of fans.

What, do you think a "generation" is two years or something...?

[VF5SS]

come on, VF5SS, you can use your BIG WORDS here on this forum... think the only the five-year old's say little words on Seseme Street...

You do realize the little words are just as easy to read as the big words right?

I think it's fairly obvious that Battletech is just as old, toxic, and outdated as Robotech. Really anything with tech in the title other than Tech and Talk ain't too hot these days.

[TehPW]

i'm not gonna argue with you on your OPINION, sir but considering one is a Board Game, that

during it's

several enjoyable (if

in

)

(that you cant play because the computers advanced so much in 10-15 years since MW2 came out) dozens of paperback books, a sh*tty cartoon and other, lesser merchantdise.... and the other is thinking that Lancer can be the new Jersey Shore...

So care to continue to belittle Battletech, Mr VF-5SS?

Yes i would want a anime reboot of Macross, but most of the folks here agree it wont happen for several reasons, already discussed like the well humped horse... is pettions even possible? do they (in japan) even give a damn about any product beyond Japan's borders?