Need advice on those damn energy lines on Jehuty

[GU-11]

NOTE: A thousand apologies for double posting, but I just realized THIS is the place for asking advice, after posting an identical question on the model kits forum.

I'm about to start work on a new project: the Anubis Zone of the Enders Jehuty [who knew Egyptian gods made such cool action figures?].

Know those cool energy lines that run along its body?

Well, they're not painted in the actual product.

The manual tells you know to make mix a batch of paint for it [white and clear blue], but will regular panel washing do the trick?

I'm planning on using Tamiya acrylic gloss white and clear blue [thinking of diluting it with Future], but I've no idea which is the best way to add the energy lines. Should I paint it using a fine tip brush or panel wash? And do I use water or Tamiya acrylic thinner to clean it up?

I'm concerned about diluting it too much, because the light blue color might not show when dry, unlike black panel washing.

The naked plastic is pretty glossy, but should I gloss coat it anyway? Should I gloss coat it for protection after applyingthe lines like I usually do for Gundam models?

Any advice is much appreciated.

On a side note, I hate that they've used blue clear plastic shoulder parts, instead of fluorescent green. The lines were green in the game, and I have a Gundam eye green marker that would have been perfect for the task.

[MechTech]

Hey GU-11, I just saw this. Are you talking about the light blue "wash" in some of the seems? If you ask me, just get Tamiya light blue like X-14. - MT

[Penguin]

To get the effect you're looking for, I think a wash would be too faint to show up against the dark plastic. Here be my suggestions.

1. Mask the heck out of it. Since a wash would be too pale you'll have to use unthinned paint, and that could mark up the rest of the figure pretty bad.

2. To prevent paint from leaking under the mask, paint clear gloss over the edges of the mask and let it completely dry. This creates something of a seal around the mask edges and, if it does flow under, it's only clear gloss.

3. Flow gloss white into the area with a small brush. This creates a base to help the actual colour shine. Naturally, it will want to gather in the seams and leave thin areas in the middle. Sometimes, the clear gloss from step 2 helps the white adhere. Sometimes it helps to put some flat gloss first to create a surface for the white to adhere to. Just make sure each layer has a good couple days to completely dry.

4. Use the small brush to flow in the blue MechTech mentioned. It's almost a perfect match for the colour in the picture. You could lighten it a little with some gloss white if you find it too dark.

[GU-11]

Thanks for all the tips and instructions, guys!

@Mechtech: A thousand thanks for the recommendation. I totally suck at mixing paint.

@ Penguin: Admitedly, I'm a little thick when it comes to written instructions, but regarding step 2, do I also let the clear gloss flow into the seams themselves, as I seal the edges of the masking tape?

Secondly, and I know this sounds stupid and plain cheap, but would clear nail varnish work in lieu of clear gloss? I've only got clear flat with me right now, and the place where I get my paint is pretty out of the way.

Edited January 13, 2012 by GU-11

[Penguin]

With regards to #2, I wouldn't flow into the seams. You don't want too much, just enough to seal the mask. Brush lightly from the seam out towards the masking tape (kinda like your trying to push it under the tape). If you have a flat edged brush, that works best, but it's not essential.

Never tried nail varnish myself. I know the typical stuff is akin to lacquer-based paint, and there are newer water-based varnishes that are somewhat close to acrylic paint. I think my primary concern would be thickness. Most nail varnishes I've encountered are pretty dense. You can use flat clear instead. The main reason to use gloss is that if it does flow under the tape, you don't get flat patches on the gloss plastic (and since with models it's common practice to use a clear gloss coat as a base for decals and washes). If you use the flat, you might have to clean up around the tape a little to restore the gloss. If that doesn't trouble you (careful steady hand scraping or with acrylic thinner), go ahead and use the flat.

[Cesar Enrique]

I would take some days to carefully mask A LOT, then use one of the next options:

1.- Apply (with a brush) a reflective metallic base such as Tamiya chrome-silver X-11, then, (with a brush again) apply clear fluorescent blue paint, such like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/...a#ht_3934wt_856

...or maybe just 1 THIN layer of any clear blue paint can work, Tamiya x-11 shines a lot.

2.- I would try A VERY THIN layer of invisible fluorescent blue paint that glows with UV light over the clear blue and I would make a base with some UV leds attached to it surrounding the figure, or simply stick a very small and cheap UV lantern somewhere hidden in the front of my robot, then the energy lines would look like real energy lines:

http://www.ebay.com/...8#ht_566wt_1139

3.- I could also try mixing invisible UV pigment to a mix of white and sky blue (almost white) acrilic paint...

http://www.ebay.com/...51#ht_500wt_922

...and, again, use UV lighting, even with your room´s lights turned on, UV light glows nice, check this out:

As a final touch, I deffinitely would install blue, green or white micro leds inside the clear parts of the robot, wich seems to be eyes, leggs and shoulders, this combined with UV glowing paint, would make the robot look super duper hyper mega ultra amazingly AWESOME!!

But, well, that´s just me!! Hehehe.

P.S. I love Zone of the Enders robots, maybe I will buy it and build it just like I mentioned above.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Cesar Enrique

[GU-11]

@Penguin: Thanks for the detailed explanation! I guess I'll use the flat gloss instead, since the trip to the hobby store where I get my paints is at least an hour's drive away. Cleaning up the mess with a Q-tip and some acrylic thinner is no problem, as I do it all the time after panel washing my Gundam kits, anyways.

@Cesar Enrique: Whoa, I wasn't expecting to do anything near as elaborate as 3, with the LED installations! I don't trust myself enough to be drilling holes into my model kits.

But I really appreciate the advice on using Tamiya chrome silver X-11. I bought some to drybrush my DMK-01 Optimus recently. How would the end results look like, if I used chrome silver as a base? Mind posting an example, if it's not too much trouble?

BTW, what the frak is my post doing in the Anime and SF forum?

[Penguin]

I use the silver+transparent method Cesar mentions for to simulate coloured lights. If he doesn't beat me to it, I'll see if I can take a snapshot of one of my examples.

The effect is like the chrome reflector behind a coloured light on any car. With the chrome silver underneath the transparent paint, light will reflect off it and shine back through the transparent, producing a bright, coloured metallic shine. I use it for car lights, Gundam eyes, sensors, and similar features, as it provides more depth than plain old metallic paint. I once saw a model of Milia's Q-Rau that someone had painted entirely in chrome silver and transparent purple. The effect was very dramatic!

The only thing to consider is that, without light reflecting off of it, the result is either dark (if the transparent colour is darker) or just silver (if the transparent colour is pale, it doesn't show up well without light). So, the effect will be very striking and have good contrast if you display it near a light source, and less if its sheltered under a shelf or lid. If you want to produce an effect more like a constant-on glow, then a bright solid colour would be more suitable. If you like the idea of seams that shine brightly under light, then the silver-backed transparent is the way to go.

The Tamiya chrome silver works well, but for really impressive results get a hold of the chrome silver Gundam marker from Gunze or even chrome silver Testors enamel. As an acrylic, the Tamiya still has some grain in it. The lacquer marker or enamel paint create a smoother, more mirror-like surface.

[GU-11]

I use the silver+transparent method Cesar mentions for to simulate coloured lights. If he doesn't beat me to it, I'll see if I can take a snapshot of one of my examples.

The effect is like the chrome reflector behind a coloured light on any car. With the chrome silver underneath the transparent paint, light will reflect off it and shine back through the transparent, producing a bright, coloured metallic shine. I use it for car lights, Gundam eyes, sensors, and similar features, as it provides more depth than plain old metallic paint. I once saw a model of Milia's Q-Rau that someone had painted entirely in chrome silver and transparent purple. The effect was very dramatic!

The only thing to consider is that, without light reflecting off of it, the result is either dark (if the transparent colour is darker) or just silver (if the transparent colour is pale, it doesn't show up well without light). So, the effect will be very striking and have good contrast if you display it near a light source, and less if its sheltered under a shelf or lid. If you want to produce an effect more like a constant-on glow, then a bright solid colour would be more suitable. If you like the idea of seams that shine brightly under light, then the silver-backed transparent is the way to go.

The Tamiya chrome silver works well, but for really impressive results get a hold of the chrome silver Gundam marker from Gunze or even chrome silver Testors enamel. As an acrylic, the Tamiya still has some grain in it. The lacquer marker or enamel paint create a smoother, more mirror-like surface.

Thanks for the description.

Truth is, I find those fancy IKEA LED's too expensive for display lighting, which means my figs aren't usually under any dedicated light sources. I guess I'll stick with the white base and sky blue method.

One more thing: The instructions manual in the Jehuty kit recommends using "70% white mixed with 30% clear blue." What sort of effect would that have? I was wondering if I should try mixing paints for once and see if the results might mimic the energy lines on the promo pics.

Also, I don't have their specified GS Mr. Color paints, but would Tamiya equivalents do the job?

[MechTech]

The UV light does look cool, BUT be careful if you ever use it. Flourescent/UV lights cause styrene to break down and cause white paint to yellow. Its good for short bursts, but not to display all day. Everyone has some great feedback for ya! - MT

[BeyondTheGrave]

I'm trying to figure out if you mean the panel lining thats blue or the effect that was in game?

[Penguin]

One more thing: The instructions manual in the Jehuty kit recommends using "70% white mixed with 30% clear blue." What sort of effect would that have? I was wondering if I should try mixing paints for once and see if the results might mimic the energy lines on the promo pics.

Also, I don't have their specified GS Mr. Color paints, but would Tamiya equivalents do the job?

Here are some examples of the clear-over-silver technique from the main sensor on my QF-3000 model.

Mixing gloss white and clear blue will get you a pale blue. Clear paints mix nicely with white to tint it to the shade you want. Produces a nice, rich colour. No special effect.

Mr. Colour paints are lacquers and Tamiya acrylics (GS acrylics are labelled "Mr Hobby"), but the results should be the same. The clear blue is the same shade in all three. The acrylic might not cover the plastic as nicely as the lacquer.

[GU-11]

The UV light does look cool, BUT be careful if you ever use it. Flourescent/UV lights cause styrene to break down and cause white paint to yellow. Its good for short bursts, but not to display all day. Everyone has some great feedback for ya! - MT

I know all about the damage UV light does to plastic. My whole whole room has been darkened with thick curtains and only generic light bulbs are used in there, so the UV light idea isn't something I'd be inclined to try.

Yeah, everyone's been super generous with sharing their model-building wisdom. I truly appreciate it.

I'm trying to figure out if you mean the panel lining thats blue or the effect that was in game?

The panel lining on the plastic kit. In the game, it's those streaks of bluish green light that intermittently run down the body of the Jehuty.

Here are some examples of the clear-over-silver technique from the main sensor on my QF-3000 model.

Mixing gloss white and clear blue will get you a pale blue. Clear paints mix nicely with white to tint it to the shade you want. Produces a nice, rich colour. No special effect.

Mr. Colour paints are lacquers and Tamiya acrylics (GS acrylics are labelled "Mr Hobby"), but the results should be the same. The clear blue is the same shade in all three. The acrylic might not cover the plastic as nicely as the lacquer.

Thanks for the pics! The effects look really nice, but I'm not sure if they'll be suitable for the Jehuty. On sensors, headlights and tail lights, they;d look awesome, though.

I guess solid bright blue is still the safest choice for the Jehuty.

BTW, I just read the color guide again [using what rudementary Japanese I know], and it says the recommended paint is Mr. Hobby Color H-1, a water-based paint. It's either acrylic paint from their Creos line or something from the Aqueous line, which means my Tamiya gloss white should be okay.

And since I'm mixing the white and clear blue, would the base coat of white you mentioned in an earlier post still be necessary?

And again, my inborn inability to comprehend written instrsuctions rears its ugly head. Then you said acrylic might not COVER as nicely, did you mean the coat would be uneven? I'm pretty sure you don't mean that, because those seams are really thin lines, so I don't think getting an even coat would be an issue.

[Penguin]

The white base is just to help the top layer stand out more. It's just a common technique when painting any bright colour on top of a dark. You could pass on it if you want.

With regards to coverage, gloss white in acrylics (Tamiya, GS, whatever) tends to be thin. It gathers in corners and often needs multiple coats to get a smooth finish all over. If all you're doing is seamlines then yeah, you shouldn't have any problems.

[GU-11]

Thanks, Penguin!

I guess an extra coat of white wouldn't be too much more trouble. All I plan to do with that kit is basically: ink in the blue energy lines, and panel line everything else.

I'm still thinking about painting the gold parts.

BTW, I noticed some swirls on the plastic parts. Could I get rid of these swirls if I sprayed a coat of clear gloss on it? I noticed the swirls disappear when I matte coat my Gundam figs, but I'm not sure of it works with gloss as well.

Also, anything I should worry about when it comes to masking? I've heard that you might get sticky glue residue on your plastic kit from using certain types of masking tape, but I forgot which kind.

Sorry for the barrage of questions, but the Jehuty's sold out at my place, and I don't want to screw up this kit.

Edited January 15, 2012 by GU-11

[Penguin]

Don't worry about the questions. That's what a community is for. I just hope my advice doesn't lead you to mess up your figure.

Can't help you with the swirls. As I understand it, the swirls are inherent in the plastic, with how the colour is mixed in and how it's injected into the moulds. I'd imagine a flat coat hides the swirls by diffusing the light, but they're still there underneath. Since a gloss coat is totally transparent, I don't think it'll hide them. On the flip side, it won't do any harm either. Have you thought about a semi-gloss coat?

If you have masking tape designed for models (like Tamiya's), there's no residue. Standard masking tape that you pick up in any old store can definitely leave a residue.

[GU-11]

You're a life-saver, Penguin!

Good thing you replied as quickly as you did. I stumbled on a gunpla building site tutorial teaching you how to mask plamo, and the guy used Scotch tape for the job--figured if it works for a seasoned model builder like that guy, it should be good enough for me. So I got a roll of the same semi-transparent tape on my way back from lunch. I was about to start masking the kit, but decided to check the thread first.

If only I'd checked the thread first just now; would have saved me a few dollars' worth of tape. Oh well, there's bound to be something that needs taping up in a house.

Guess I'll have to make that trip to the hobby store after all.

[Penguin]

Well, you can use plastic tape, you just have to be careful. Before I got real model masking tape, I used Scotch magic transparent tape for masking. It has a weaker adhesive that doesn't leave any residue. Problem is it doesn't flex like real masking tape, so it doesn't follow curves very well, and it doesn't form as strong of a seal. The whole clear paint trick doesn't work either. Instead, I found that the best way was to cover the entire area with the tape, then cut away the area to be painted with an exacto-knife (carefully so you don't scratch the plastic underneath, of course). I still use this technique once in a while, if I have a strangely-shaped area to paint.

Considering that you can't replace the figure, yeah, it might be safest to get the proper tape.

[GU-11]

Good advice. I'd better make that trip to the hobby store and get some Tamiya masking tape.

I've been examining the parts that needed to be masked, and I was wondering how to go about it.

Taking your example of cutting away the area to be painted, since the energy lines are basically just slits on the parts, could I just mask the entire part and cut into the seams? Would that work? The seams are so thin and narrow, that covering them from both sides seems unecessarilly troublesome and pointless.

Also, would a Swiss Army knife do the trick for cutting the tape? It's the sharpest knife I have, and I use it to pare the nubs off plastic parts. I'm asking because I've never used this technique before [masking the whole area and cutting away the area to be painted], and the edge of a Swiss Army knife blade is not as angular as that of a box-cutter.

BTW, They don't sell X-acto knives here, so would a brand new box-cutter be sharp enough do the trick if I can't use a Swiss Army knife? I know it sounds like a dumb question, but I've tried improvising once when decaling a kit, and messed it up real bad.

Edited January 15, 2012 by GU-11

[Penguin]

Masking it completely and cutting away the area is a perfectly viable option. Just be careful not to gouge the plastic. It kinda depends on how deep the seams are, too. If they're deep, then a single slice down the middle and passing your fingernail through the depression is enough. If the seams are shallow, then you need to cut on both sides, which can be a real pain for a thin seam. Masking both sides might seem bothersome, but shallow seam lines may require it. You can always take the masking tape, split it down the middle, and align the outside edges to the seam (since the slice down the middle isn't likely as straight). Saves on tape and gives you some nice, thin slices to work with (which will follow curves better). That is, if your hobby shop doesn't carry the really thin masking tape. My hobby shop stocks some very thin masking tape (5mm and smaller) which is perfect for masking along seams (Hobbylink Japan and others carry it online too).

As far as knives go, anything that's sharp enough and small enough that you can handle it with dexterity will do. I used the smaller blade on a Boy Scout (i.e. small Swiss army) knife for the longest time. You don't want to have to press too hard to get through the tape, otherwise you could gouge the plastic beneath, so sharpness is key.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Penguin

[BeyondTheGrave]

X-acto knife is more accurate.

[GU-11]

Masking it completely and cutting away the area is a perfectly viable option. Just be careful not to gouge the plastic. It kinda depends on how deep the seams are, too. If they're deep, then a single slice down the middle and passing your fingernail through the depression is enough. If the seams are shallow, then you need to cut on both sides, which can be a real pain for a thin seam. Masking both sides might seem bothersome, but shallow seam lines may require it. You can always take the masking tape, split it down the middle, and align the outside edges to the seam (since the slice down the middle isn't likely as straight). Saves on tape and gives you some nice, thin slices to work with (which will follow curves better). That is, if your hobby shop doesn't carry the really thin masking tape. My hobby shop stocks some very thin masking tape (5mm and smaller) which is perfect for masking along seams (Hobbylink Japan and others carry it online too).

As far as knives go, anything that's sharp enough and small enough that you can handle it with dexterity will do. I used the smaller blade on a Boy Scout (i.e. small Swiss army) knife for the longest time. You don't want to have to press too hard to get through the tape, otherwise you could gouge the plastic beneath, so sharpness is key.

Thanks for the tips on the masking tape. I'm pretty sure I can find some thin masking tape at my local hobby store. It's actually Tamiya's official store--stocks nearly everything with a Tamiya label on it, but too far to make regular trips to.

I just checked the some of the parts, and most of them are deep enough to simply cut into. There are some places with seams that are not only somewhat shallow, but impossibly thin and circular. After checking the promo pics, it seems that even the pro modeler didn't bother with these. He simply panel lined them in black.

Honestly, I have no idea how deep is deep enough, but most of them look deep enough to hold the paint applied on them. What concerns me is how thin some of the lines are. Trying to mask from both sides might be a near-impossible task. That said, I'll still have to give it a try.

My hat's off to the guy who did the display model for the promo pics.

X-acto knife is more accurate.

They don't them where I'm at. The best I can do is get a quality box-cutter.

[anime52k8]

They don't them where I'm at. The best I can do is get a quality box-cutter.

ಠ_ಠ where the heck do you live that they don't sell things so basic as a hobby knife.

btw, Tamiya makes modeling knives.

http://www.hlj.com/product/TAM74040

http://www.hlj.com/product/TAM74020

[Reïvaj]

ಠ_ಠ where the heck do you live that they don't sell things so basic as a hobby knife.

Hey, there are some tools that are not readily available here in Bedrock! Yabba dabba doo!

[GU-11]

ಠ_ಠ where the heck do you live that they don't sell things so basic as a hobby knife.

btw, Tamiya makes modeling knives.

http://www.hlj.com/product/TAM74040

http://www.hlj.com/product/TAM74020

How could I have not noticed these at the Tamiya store? Next time I go there, I'll have to ask the salesguy about one of these.

BTW, I'm sure they do sell hobby knives here, but not necessarilly X-acto knives. I've searched several art shops, but none of them carry this brand.

[Penguin]

The brand name "X-acto" has become like "Kleenex"... a brand name used to describe an entire product (I've never heard any real person refer to "facial tissue").

[GU-11]

The brand name "X-acto" has become like "Kleenex"... a brand name used to describe an entire product (I've never heard any real person refer to "facial tissue").

That explains everything.

The most popular brands of model making equipment we get here are Japanese, with Tamiya and Gunse Sangyo dominating the market. American brands are not easily found here.

BTW, what's the difference between Tamiya's modeler's knife and design knife? Not sure which one to get if I come across them.

Edited January 18, 2012 by GU-11

[anime52k8]

BTW, what's the difference between Tamiya's modeler's knife and design knife? Not sure which one to get if I come across them.

the "modeler's" knife is the the closest equivelent to an X-acto knife with the standard #11 blade. the design knife has smaller, blade for doing even more precise work.

[electric indigo]

I ran into the same problem when I built my Idolo. After trying transparent ink over a silver base and fluorescent blue over white (both looked really tacky IMO), I settled for a simple mix of Tamiya sky blue, a drop of yellow, and white. I had to thin it so that it would just flow into the narrower lines, and so I had to apply two coats. If I ran over a border, I could just wipe away the paint with my fingertip.

Masking these lines is just asking for insanity.

My Idolo album

[GU-11]

the "modeler's" knife is the the closest equivelent to an X-acto knife with the standard #11 blade. the design knife has smaller, blade for doing even more precise work.

Thanks for the explanation. I guess I'll pass on the modeler's knife and go for the design knife. I've already got the Swiss Army knife for nub cutting and paring, and I only need something for precision work such as cutting decals.

I ran into the same problem when I built my Idolo. After trying transparent ink over a silver base and fluorescent blue over white (both looked really tacky IMO), I settled for a simple mix of Tamiya sky blue, a drop of yellow, and white. I had to thin it so that it would just flow into the narrower lines, and so I had to apply two coats. If I ran over a border, I could just wipe away the paint with my fingertip.

Masking these lines is just asking for insanity.

My Idolo album

Wow, those lines are clean and crisp!

You literally solved my biggest problem regarding the kit; those thin narrow lines on some of the parts. I sat there for hours looking at the thin lines on those parts, dreading the thought of masking them on both sides. Masking the whole area and slicing into the lines, I can deal with, but on both sides....aw, hell no.

I'll still try masking some of the more prominent, deeper lines and then slicing through them, as it allows me to use thicker paint on some of the lines. I prefer a more solid and brighter color for the energy lines.

If using thinned paint on the narrow lines will work, then all my problems are solved.

I owe you one, Electric Indigo!

BTW, that's an awesome build, and it's a resin kit, to boot. I can't tell from the pics in your flickr account, but is it articulated or static?

Edited January 19, 2012 by GU-11

[electric indigo]

The kit is static, and given the weight of the parts, articulation would really be unpractical. It has about double the size of the Kotobukiya Jehuty.

[GU-11]

That is one HUGE figure.