1/60 Yamato VF-4G Web-Exclusive Toy

[jenius]

Yamato's production runs are very small... Bandai almost certainly produces more but of toys with much greater demand. That'd be my guess anyway.

[Kyp Durron]

I'm still hoping that they change the VF-1 feet thrusters, they look like crap on this bird.

-Kyp

[VF5SS]

I don't think they're going to change the way it was designed 28 years ago.

Edited March 8, 2012 by VF5SS

[Mommar]

The feet on this new toy appear to reuse the exact same feet as the VF-1 toy... which is not accurate to how the feet look in the show. That's what Kyp is complaining about (I, however, feel those anime feet are pretty impossible to pull off.)

Edited March 8, 2012 by Mommar

[jenius]

Needs more cow bell.

[Reïvaj]

Sorry, wrong thread!

Edited March 8, 2012 by Reïvaj

[CF18]

He is just trolling, right?

[mechaninac]

Err... You're showing the feet thrusters for the VF-1; of course Yamato got it right on all their versions, so did Bandai and Toynami, for that matter. The problem is that according to available animation (DYRL?), CG (games), and line art, the VF-4 does not share the same feet design as the VF-1 series... the feet thrusters of the VF-4 are unique, with a paddle-like design that may prove too delicate to pull off in 1/60 scale.

If Yamato keeps the VF-1 style feet on the VF-4 I can unequivocally state that they are getting it wrong. They may have their reasons to go this rout, and may even have Kawamori's blessing on doing so, but it would still be incorrect based on all available sources.

[VF5SS]

just do that but metal

[Valkyrie addict]

Anime magic at it's best!

[VF5SS]

Anime magic at it's best!

you keep using that phrase

i do not think it means what you think it means

[vf_1s]

I quite like the way they interpret the feet in these resin kits

[DarrinG]

I think Battroid mode for this mech is a 1 out of 10. IMO is just horrific.

Just a mess, looks like a design the GoBots rejected.

Not sure they can make it look good in the limited toy. Fingers crossed.

Fighter mode design is of course a 10 out of 10...

[VF5SS]

Just a mess, looks like a design the GoBots rejected.

1/10 for comparing something to Gobots as an insult like it's 1984 :3

[Mommar]

I think Battroid mode for this mech is a 1 out of 10. IMO is just horrific.

Just a mess, looks like a design the GoBots rejected.

Not sure they can make it look good in the limited toy. Fingers crossed.

Fighter mode design is of course a 10 out of 10...

I like the Battroid design.

[xrentonx]

Love this Valk and totally disagree about the Gobot comment. I think the battroid mode looks great even though I'm a fighter mode guy first and foremost.

[NeoverseOmega]

***Personal Opinion Alert!!!***

I love the battroid mode design as well, but I can definitely see where people are coming from when they complain that it looks like a jumble.

Kamawori could have easily gone the Macross II route and basically just redesigned the VF-1. Instead he went a radically different route, one that actually makes me think more of the YF-21. Whereas the VF-1 is magnificently minimalist and elegant (every part seems to be used in every mode in a clean and satisfying manner - heck, the head is a gun turret for the jet), the VF-4 uses redundancy in a way that makes it look tougher. You could blow the legs, arms, and head off the batroid and the bird would still fly. Assuming the battroid mode parts are left alone you could wipe out the wings, nosecone, tailfins, and probably even the top thrusters and this bruiser would still be able to kick your butt. The battroid itself has this forward thrusting effect, armoring the cockpit and the shoulders and bristling with weapons all over. Heck, even the visor is thicker, like it could take a few punches in the face without cracking.

To me it looks like a cloaked and hooded executioner.

However, that wasn't my first impression of it. At first glance I immediately overlaid designs like the VF-1, and to some extend the VF-19: with those in mind the VF-4 looked clunky and kibbly. Wierdly enough it was after looking at mospeada, transformers, and some Gundam designs that this suddenly took on another cast for me. I guess once you get some perspective on other jet/robot designs to clear out your expectations it looks very different. All the angles for the "kibble" fit together (not just in jet mode as David and others point out) but in robot mode it creates a heavy robed, oddly medieval look while still leaving all these joints free for motion. The shape of the arms, the face, even the upper legs and nosecone screams extravagantly agressive. We all love the jet mode - its sleek and beautiful and deserves shelf space just on its own - but the battroid takes that apart and turns it into a tough, violent, brutal looking robot. Yamato is definitely capable of capturing both modes fantastically well if they are creative - after all, just a few extra twists and panels made the 19's fantastic, I can already see how a little inventive engineering could make this stunning. Some of us are just a little afraid that because most people like the fighter and not the battroid, that its going to end up looking more jumbled and awkward than it has to in that mode because so many people are seeing a jumbled go-bot instead of a deadly inquisitioner in white.

Flatter feet make it look like a head stomper and keep the lower legs from looking to ridiculously long compared to the thighs - using VF-1 style feet would be more convenient, but doesn't really help either mode in terms of accuracy or appearance. It's not a deal killer, but it's just unnecessary considering how far they've come in the design department.

Still looking forward to this bird! Over the years she's become one of my favorites in the Macross universe and can't help but be both critical and excited - it will be sweet to see her in three dimensions and hopefully as rock solid as Yamato's most recent releases!

***Personal Opinion Alert Over, you may now return to your regularly scheduled train of thought.***

[xrentonx]

That's an opinion I can stand behind, good sir!

[VF5SS]

honestly I'd rather have the guy on the left

Gobots were pretty good about airplanes that aren't just blocks with wings stuck on :3

[sketchley]

I quite like the way they interpret the feet in these resin kits

That's not a resin kit. That's a scratch build from Model Graphix.

[NeoverseOmega]

Agreed. Go-Bots pulled off a Harrier, an A-10 tank-killer, and even an SR-71 blackbird in the 80's in tiny sizes when some much larger and more modern transformers are still pretty much robot kibble with a jet tacked on.

But we're off topic.

The VF-4 looks like it skinned a plane and is wearing it as a pelt (Veef, was that yours?). I think it pretty well trounces squadrons of transformers and go-bots without even smudging it's wraparound shades.

[NeoverseOmega]

That's an opinion I can stand behind, good sir!

Thanks man, it's good to know I'm not alone!

Great minds think alike! Er, or like minds think they're great . . . . hrmmm, not quite sure which one is more accurate . . . .

[VF5SS]

The VF-4 looks like it skinned a plane and is wearing it as a pelt (Veef, was that yours?).

Yeah I said that about the Legioss in my reviews of the CM's Corporation toys. I like the idea that the VF-4 kind of has a paladin like shroud of armor on top but I'm not sure my thing about the Legioss applies as the Legioss is clearly disconnected from any proper airplane. It's basically a toy through and through.

The VF-4 is beautiful~

If I had to describe its transformation, it's as if someone picked up the fighter by its body and the robot just unfurled out as it was pulled up.

[NeoverseOmega]

I was pretty sure that was from one of your reviews, I just wasn't sure which . . . .

I definitely like the Paladin unfurling from the plane as you lift it better than the white executioner skinning a jet, but either way she is a beautiful bird.

And now I picture her with red crosses painted on those X's on the shoulder pauldrons, a sword, shield, and a bunch a terrified Zentran wondering just when the crusade started.

Funny, even in that crude choppy animation the design still looks pretty bad-@$$.

[ron5864]

I agree the battroid mode is not as sleek as the VF-1 and VF-25. The cockpit protrudes too much outward. But the shape reminds me of the VF-171, maybe because of the wide shoulders.

If I can get my hands on one, it will be displayed in fighter mode. So no worries here.

[jenius]

I like brawny looking battroid modes, that's why I like the Legioss... and while I'd take the legioss' soldier mode over the VF-4 there's no doubt the VF-4 has a much nicer fighter mode.

[NeoverseOmega]

Heh, if Yamato ever announces that they are going to do a Legioss, the black market will be glutted with kidneys from poor Macrossworlders . . . . .

I might have to come up with another organ though because I suspect the kidney's going to the Lightning III. If Yamato goes into the Mospeada market I'd probably end up on life support (Legioss and Tread alone would probably require most of my innards) . . . . . but I'd be playing with some pretty cool toys in that hospital bed!

Oh the expression on those doctors faces!

Again, opinions opinions, but I do kind of agree that the Legioss pulls off the heavily armored soldier look a bit better but at the cost of a blocky and in some ways less convincing jet (how do those intakes connect to the boosters anyway? Do they even? I mean, does a space jet technically need intakes?).

But the Legioss doesn't look like it could do the medieval crusader thing (even if it does have the sword for it -erm, in a dream anyway).

Of course part of the appeal of the VF-4 is the transformation - the fighter doesn't even look like it should be ABLE to become a robot (that's probably why it's so easy to perpetuate the myth that it wasn't originally intended to). Not only does it transform, but it does so in a way thats unique and ends up with a robot which looks so much tougher than you'd expect from that jet design (again, if its done well - I already kind of have some issues with how they appear to be handling the arms and the feet, but so much is unfinished on the CAD model its difficult to say much).

VF-4 does blocky AND elegant - and it wears its sunglasses at night . . . . . .

Edited March 10, 2012 by NeoverseOmega

[VF5SS]

I like the cut of your jib, fellow VF-4 fan.

However

Heh, if Yamato ever announces that they are going to do a Legioss, the black market will be glutted with kidneys from poor Macrossworlders . . . . .

Surely you aren't suggesting most people wouldn't just wait until they all went on clearance like the last two times a new Legioss was made :3

[danth]

I personally think a Yamato Legioss wouldn't make it to clearance. For one, Yamato variable fighters are top notch in terms of looks, accuracy, and design, and frankly CMs were not. Second, I doubt Yamato would make as many. Plus I think people who buy Yamato valks would buy a Yamato Legioss just because.

Edited March 10, 2012 by danth

[VF5SS]

Yeah all of that applies to the VF-11 and in my opinion the VF-22 as well but even I can't argue with Scott T. Hards's plight ( ;w;)7

[NeoverseOmega]

Cool, somehow I ended up on the internet chatting with two of my favorite reviewers. They say technology keeps us from connecting . . .

Well, off topic (I'll bring it back to the VF-4, believe you me)-

The last two times a new Legioss was made the results were lackluster at best. The first was reasonably anime accurate and ambitious, but it was horribly overengineered, used die-cast in the most senseless manner possible, and had a fit, finish, and build that was so pathetic that it literally self destructed most of the time. It didn't help that it was tied to a company that many people hate and, well, it took them HOW MANY YEARS to release what they said they were going to release? The second was rock solid and came with a Tread - but it threw anime-accuracy out the window and while the fit, finish, and build were all great, the design and engineering choices left a LOT to be desired. The jet mode was a floppy mess and all the modes had odd gaps and protrusions. CM's unit was also, by almost any standard, ludicrously expensive for what it was.

So yeah, those were products that only the most hard-core Mospeada lovers would touch outside of a bargain bin.

Theoretically a rock solid, anime accurate Legioss from a company that actually shows that they pay attention to their customers and their past performance could do well. If people actually WANT to support a release they will (look at how well the VF-19 Kai did despite all the people who don't like the design, the pilot, or Mac-7. Many people bought it to support future releases and because it was just so well made).

Part of what is essential, however, is timing. The first new legioss was released after a failed masterpiece VF-1 line, and it didn't exactly get glowing reviews out of the gate. And they didn't improve anything from release to release. And they kept promising things that turned into vaporware or finally made it out the gate years later. Any enthusiasm for the product would be pretty much dead by then. The second was released after a glut of mospeada merchandise all competing with each other for an already small market with, again, lackluster toys.

Part of what hurt the VF-11 and the VF-22 is timing - although they are fantastic designs and fabulously engineered, they are tertiary mecha (I say that with chagrin, cuz' Max's powder blue-gazer aint tertiary ta nobody) that happened to be released just before people realized how far Yamato had come in terms of designing a TOY. People still had the VF-0 exploding shoulders, floppy SV-51, and rising toy prices on the brain. The VF-21 was just starting to get its due when a smaller VF-11 gets released at the same price . . . . again, timing.

Now Yamato has been hitting it out of the park with release after release - the Macross itself, the VF-19, the VF-17 - people trust that the product will be simultaneously as anime-accurate and as sturdy as humanly possible. I don't know if there's going to be another anniversary for Mospeada coming up soon, but part of me says - release something BEFORE that time. Don't compete with a bunch of lackluster attempts to drain a brief resurgence, snap up all the people who were dissappointed by the previous releases.

After all, a Legioss is much smaller than a Valkyrie, and while it does require complex engineering, its nowhere near as crazy as stuff Yamato has already done. And they have lots of models, toys, and failed practices to study and learn from.

The VF-4 has only ever been a garage kit and while some of us (myself definitely included) LOVE the design, it showed up in video games and for a few minutes on a music video. While Mospead isn't exactly the most successfull mecha anime of all time, it has a following and I can't help but think that what is essentially the main mecha for a show has to be able to do at least as well as the VF-4 would - especially if they design something that makes everyone who even has a little liking for the design say: "Finally, now that's what I'm talking about!"

That being said, if they consider doing the Legioss, I hope it sits on the burner behind the work on the VF-4. This mecha is probably the ultimate challenge as far as Valkyrie designs, and I'm already worrying about what kinds of decisions are being made in Yamato design offices.

[VF5SS]

Yeah you may want to take this to the Mospeada thread but I will re-iterate that the Legioss is also a tertiary robot in its respective show. It just also happened to be a jet with arms and was admitted added to Mospeada just because of Macross. Also I don't believe it would require complex engineering as the design is less complex than most elaborate deluxe Transformers to say nothing of some of the larger figures.

[jenius]

Didn't mean to derail this with the talk of the Legioss. One thing I'm concerned about with the VF-4 will be the arm mobility. With a potentially massive uni-boob getting the arms to extend out forward well will be required for a number of decent looking poses. That would mean that whole shoulder assembly is going to have to rotate... which could be a difficult trick to pull off. If the shoulder assembly doesn't rotate then there should be a beefy joint that rotates and pivots right where the bicep meets the shoulder so the arm can extend forward all the way pushing those dangly bits back up.

[NeoverseOmega]

Sorry, I do have a knack for tangents (although you can't say I didn't integrate the VF-4 in there).

Back to our lovely three hulled hellraiser.

I think a lot of us agree that a rotating shoulder pauldron makes sense. If they make the shoulder assembly light enough and use a metal hinge and frame (I've always been a fan of using a kind of die-cast skeleton encased by plastic on these things) it should work. They might end up having to put the hinge slightly off center to leave room for the upper thigh to cross over, but thats doable. Not that there aren't other options - in the lineart gerwalk and battroid pics the arm is pushed forward to the point that it looks like its coming out almost right behind the shoulder cannon. For the upper arm to stay as long as it is, it would have to push back into that cavity a good way. One option is to make the grey inset for the shoulder cannon the VF-4's actual shoulder and make that rotate (it would be logical for the transformation anyway, that way you could rotate the arm clear of the leg entirely (instead of having it hang a little into the intake cavity like the lineart shows) and then just slide the whole mess back. However I still like the rotating shoulder pauldrons better - not only does it give you significantly more range of motion, but it just seems to make sense that you should be able to angle those big horking guns (heh, assuming that's what they are, the stats only describe two beam guns but in battroid it looks like it's got four - unless the foream cannons only work when they're connected to the shoulder assembly, but then the flap folding on top of it makes no sense at all).

Both rotating shoulder pauldrons and a rotating shoulder within the pauldron itself would be ideal IMHO, that way you get a clear intake, and you can shoot the Zentran standing behind you in the face . . . . .

Is anyone else a little annoyed that they seem to be using the SHE solution to the forearms? Just having dangling pieces that slide over the forarm and hand works but it takes away from the very smooth clean look we see in the lineart. They could simply make the forarm shell unhinge so the hand can slide up and back to where it has more space and then lock back closed, OR they could just have the wedge shaped protrusion with the hand rotate back then slide forward so it fits neatly inside the wedge shaped forearm cannon (a little tricky, but I think doable. Every way I look at the lineart for this thing, it looks like the forearm sheilds essentially ARE the forearms with a little doohickey underneath for the hand to fold out of. Most of the previous designs, and yes the Yamato CAD, look like they just built a generic robot arm and attached a hing for the forearm shield to flop around on. That's essentially backwards. Easy yes, but less elegant looking, and certainly inaccurate for the VF-4.

Heh, since we've already talked about the feet, the angles for the wings and fins, the nosecone, and the head, just had to throw another nitpick into the mix!

I really like to think Yamato reads this stuff and says hey, that might work! More likely they see big block of text and say "A-hole" . . . .

Edited March 10, 2012 by NeoverseOmega

[Ahab]

Yeah you may want to take this to the Mospeada thread but I will re-iterate that the Legioss is also a tertiary robot in its respective show. It just also happened to be a jet with arms and was admitted added to Mospeada just because of Macross. Also I don't believe it would require complex engineering as the design is less complex than most elaborate deluxe Transformers to say nothing of some of the larger figures.

Have you ever seen Mospeada?

Back on topic, the VF-4's cluncky battroid mode is beginning to grow on me. It feels like a good ole' throw-back to the 80's robot...cause it is, I guess. No Lucas style re-engineering here. It is what it is, and there's a charm to that.