Discovery of Macross?

[Valkyrie Driver]

Huh... I don't remember anyone, from the grunts on up, ever mentioning that in the show. Which episode(s) are you referring to?

If you'd read a bit further, I said that's how I perceived it. It's not mentioned in any episode, but I can't help but see it that way. Also Gamlin, told Basara on many occasions to stop getting in the way, so there's that. Please stop just grabbing things out of context and trying to make me look like an ass. I'm perfectly capable of doing that on my own, thank you.

You're makin' a great point and I'mma let you finish, but... Basara was actually working in the service of the military, his VF-19 was supplied and maintained by the military, and the upper command of the Mac7 fleet was running interference for him because he WAS a military psyops mission.

That's a good point. However, a Psyops strategy is supposed to target the enemy, and Basara kinda just hosed everyone. JB0 I think you said it best:

*In both directions. Those speaker pods are INSANELY dangerous from any rational perspective, and he's firing them with reckless abandon at targets he has no desire whatsoever to injure. To say nothing of Speaker Pod Gamma.

Distracted soldiers are dead soldiers...

So they created Sound Force instead, and it worked.

Yes it did. Just like they wanted it to. But that brings me to:

The idea of the attempt to replicate his success with the Jammingbirds and its subsequent failure is actually one of the greatest things in M7, in my opinion. I see that as a statement against manufactured pop idol disposeable music that cannot hope to emulate the passion of a true musician... It ties in well with Basara's disinterest in all things to do with the music business, the recording of the single, the filming of the music video, etc... And then they went and undid all of that with Frontier!! Suddenly idols are OK now! Bleah

I had not thought about it that way. Storytelling wise though it just seemed like the cliche "chosen one" routine, which can work, but it just felt a bit forced and hokey. As for frontier, Sure Sheryl is an Idol, and her songs aren't full of deep meaning (at least from what I can tell), but her desire is genuine. She knows what's she doing and why, she wants to entertain, to make people feel good.

I can't believe I'm about to do this, but to use rock music of today as an analogy, comparing Basara and Sheryl is like comparing Clutch to AC/DC. Clutch puts out music that they want to play in their own style, and just says "Imma do my own thing", like Basara. While AC/DC kinda went with the mainstream flow and played what people wanted to hear and was just out to have fun and entertain people, like how I perceived Sheryl.

Now this is all my perceptions, you might have a different view and I'm not trying to argue against it, simply stating my case.

Basara is undoubtedly the protagonist, and I'm supposed to like him, I want to like him, but I think his character was poorly executed and shallow. For the record I'll state that again, I want to like Basara. However, his relation to the rest of the show, the other characters, the setting itself, is so disconnected he comes across as selfish and obnoxious, and I can't help but hate him for it.

And it's all largely reasonable analysis of the situation, sabotaged by the fact that the story, of course, ignores some of the more realistic consequences that would result from Basara's behavior* in favor of the kinda silly super-robotish take on things the writers were going for.

And maybe that's why I have such an issue with it. Because up to this point, my perception of Macross (I had seen M2, SDFM, Plus, and Frontier before M7) was that it was very concerned with consequences, and how the character relates to them, and that it was more realistic in this regard.

[stray]

And maybe that's why I have such an issue with it. Because up to this point, my perception of Macross (I had seen M2, SDFM, Plus, and Frontier before M7) was that it was very concerned with consequences, and how the character relates to them, and that it was more realistic in this regard.

It sounds from what you said before like you maybe prefer side stories in existing continuities; that's not my thing at all but its perfectly okay. IMO "realism" is relative to setting in SF/F or even alternative history, especially if the world that's being portrayed has a different set of values. Somewhere along the line those worlds and those values have to be defined; mostly through the extenuating circumstances that led to that world being different from our own as well as the characters living in that world.

To that end... it seems much more jaded over time but this is the galaxy that Minmay built. Its 30 some years on, and Space War I is a probably a fading memory. But... for me, anyway, that the ideal that 'music is the answer' carried over (if tepidly at first) is what really grounds it as a successor to SDFM and not a rehash or something and a large part of why Basara "growing" would have been a disservice.

I dunno... if you didn't like Macross 7 that's your prerogative but it feels like you're trying to judge it by a standard that shouldn't apply.

[M'Kyuun]

I grew up in the 80's, but Robotech wasn't on tv where I grew up. However, my first exposure to anything Macross were pics in the Sears and JC Penny catalogs of the old Matchbox toys. I had no frame of reference, and I doubt that I even realized that the 'veritechs' transformed. I was aware of Jetfire, of course, but never made the Macross connection until many years later. Fast forward to the early 90's, I was stationed in Florida, and Robotech was shown in the early morning cartoon block (back when such a thing still existed), so I caught a few eps here and there, but not enough to follow it. In '95 I was checking out a Japanese hobby magazine at the local comic book store. My "eureka" moment came when I came across a pic in an ad of what was to become Yamato's 1/72 YF-19. I was completely amazed by it...so poseable and realistic! Bear in mind, up to that time, Transformers were my gauge for all transformable mecha. Anyway, I discovered that it came from something called Macross Plus, which I believe I rented, and later bought, on VHS. I also later bought the Bandai VF-19 Kai model at that same store, although I was blissfully unaware at that time that it was from Macross 7. Macross Plus was my introduction to Macross, and I still consider it one of the best animated series I've seen.

In 2004, while TDY to Mildenhall, UK, I discovered that our Shoppette had the entire Robotech series on DVD, so I started renting them. I made it through all of the Macross portion, which I thought was pretty damned cool. About three eps into Southern Cross, I quit. It didn't jive to me, and the mecha seemed a serious step backward from the lovely VF-1. At this point, I owned Plus, Zero, and M2, but had never seen the original SDFM. Fortunately, ADV (RIP) redubbed and released it on DVD. Whatever folks may think about the dub, I'm just glad to have the original series with Mari playing Minmay.

I joined Macrossworld around 2002, so my education about the series, its history, and its history with Harmony Gold grew by leaps and bounds before I ever saw the series that started it all. Ironically, like most of us here, I still saw Robotech before seeing the original show. I need never see Robotech again.

Edited August 16, 2015 by M'Kyuun

[Valkyrie Driver]

It sounds from what you said before like you maybe prefer side stories in existing continuities; that's not my thing at all but its perfectly okay. IMO "realism" is relative to setting in SF/F or even alternative history, especially if the world that's being portrayed has a different set of values. Somewhere along the line those worlds and those values have to be defined; mostly through the extenuating circumstances that led to that world being different from our own as well as the characters living in that world.

To that end... it seems much more jaded over time but this is the galaxy that Minmay built. Its 30 some years on, and Space War I is a probably a fading memory. But... for me, anyway, that the ideal that 'music is the answer' carried over (if tepidly at first) is what really grounds it as a successor to SDFM and not a rehash or something and a large part of why Basara "growing" would have been a disservice.

I dunno... if you didn't like Macross 7 that's your prerogative but it feels like you're trying to judge it by a standard that shouldn't apply.

I see what your saying about realism. I'm not saying that Basara's character needed to grow, as much as I felt he was just disconnected from the world around him. He just seemed a bit forced is all I'm saying.

Basara just stands out as the one thing I didn't like about Macross 7. I thought everything else was pretty fun.

[Valkyrie Driver]

I grew up in the 80's, but Robotech wasn't on tv where I grew up. However, my first exposure to anything Macross were pics in the Sears and JC Penny catalogs of the old Matchbox toys. I had no frame of reference, and I doubt that I even realized that the 'veritechs' transformed. I was aware of Jetfire, of course, but never made the Macross connection until many years later. Fast forward to the early 90's, I was stationed in Florida, and Robotech was shown in the early morning cartoon block (back when such a thing still existed), so I caught a few eps here and there, but not enough to follow it. In '95 I was checking out a Japanese hobby magazine at the local comic book store. My "eureka" moment came when I came across a pic in an ad of what was to become Yamato's 1/72 YF-19. I was completely amazed by it...so poseable and realistic! Bear in mind, up to that time, Transformers were my gauge for all transformable mecha. Anyway, I discovered that it came from something called Macross Plus, which I believe I rented, and later bought, on VHS. I also later bought the Bandai VF-19 Kai model at that same store, although I was blissfully unaware at that time that it was from Macross 7. Macross Plus was my introduction to Macross, and I still consider it one of the best animated series I've seen.

In 2004, while TDY to Mildenhall, UK, I discovered that our Shoppette had the entire Robotech series on DVD, so I started renting them. I made it through all of the Macross portion, which I thought was pretty damned cool. About three eps into Southern Cross, I quit. It didn't jive to me, and the mecha seemed a serious step backward from the lovely VF-1. At this point, I owned Plus, Zero, and M2, but had never seen the original SDFM. Fortunately, ADV (RIP) redubbed and released it on DVD. Whatever folks may think about the dub, I'm just glad to have the original series with Mari playing Minmay.

I joined Macrossworld around 2002, so my education about the series, its history, and its history with Harmony Gold grew by leaps and bounds before I ever saw the series that started it all. Ironically, like most of us here, I still saw Robotech before seeing the original show. I need never see Robotech again.

My introduction to Robotech was through Battlecry for the PS2. I had become familiar with Macross at that point, and recognized the Mecha in the game. Because Battlecry was a side story to the main plot of robotech with a lot of original characters, it was easy to pretend that it was Macross and not Robotech. I have the ADV dub on DVD, and I love it.

[spanner]

for me it was the very early 80's after my father returned from a work conference in Japan with a handful of VHS tapes of some cartoon series one of them being Macross which caught my attention in particular!

I can't remember if it was that trip or one of the next that he brought back a 1/55 Valkyrie toy.. I can't even remember if that toy was the Transformers Jetfire repaint!?

When Robotech air'd in 85 I couldn't believe my luck finally being able to watch it in English as the tapes of Macross didn't have any subtitles.. But the second and third series of Robotech I thought were pretty woeful.

[Valkyrie Driver]

I tried to watch The Maross Saga of Robotech when it was on netflix, and it just couldn't. The voices killed me. I just couldn't do it, they were so bad...

[spanner]

I tried to watch The Maross Saga of Robotech when it was on netflix, and it just couldn't. The voices killed me. I just couldn't do it, they were so bad...

back then it was the better option to watch something in english than in japanese without subs but I can't bring myself to sit through Robotech now.. even my son wanted to watch it after watching Macross and couldn't.

[Valkyrie Driver]

back then it was the better option to watch something in english than in japanese without subs but I can't bring myself to sit through Robotech now.. even my son wanted to watch it after watching Macross and couldn't.

It's just so bad isn't it?

[spanner]

It's just so bad isn't it?

Haha! Yeah.. tis bad!

[Valkyrie Driver]

On a slightly related note, I found one of my PS2 memory cards, which means I may have my old save file of Robotech battlecry, and all the various goodies I unlocked. I'm going to have to give it a go!

[spanner]

I do have the game still but no longer have the Play Station to play it on..

[Valkyrie Driver]

I do have the game still but no longer have the Play Station to play it on..

I have an annoying tendency to keep everything. In this case it paid off.

[spanner]

I have an annoying tendency to keep everything. In this case it paid off.

hehe! and I have an annoying (to some) tendency to keep throwing stuff out! In this case it didn't pay off..

I totally forgot I had that game and then thought I'd never have any further use for the console and cashed it in at one of those pawn shops..

Edited August 18, 2015 by spanner76

[Valkyrie Driver]

It's the only game I could get with the full control over a valkyrie, that also had a story and dialogue I could follow easily. It is thankful that you can skip the developer logo screens, do that I didn't have to watch that giant, noisy, kick in the happy sack, that is the HG logo screen.

I hate HG with such passion, I'd like to take each of thee primary culprits of the abortion that is robotech, and the entire HG legal staff, and stake them out by their nuts, and set them aflame... They have pissed on so much that I love; Transformers, Battletech, Macross, they even managed to piss off GI Joe fans, which are somewhat of kindred spirits, as I loved GI Joe as a kid.

Speaking of which, I found a bunch of my old 12" GI Joes the other day whilst going through my stuff. If I ever Get a detolf, they're going in it.

[Tochiro]

I found the A.C.E2 and A.C.E3 stories to be far more entertaining (with far better controlling valks). Of course, nothing comes close to Macross 30, but that's PS3.

[Valkyrie Driver]

I found the A.C.E2 and A.C.E3 stories to be far more entertaining (with far better controlling valks). Of course, nothing comes close to Macross 30, but that's PS3.

Those were probably Japan only releases right? If so, I did not have the logistics to get them at the time. I don't own a PS3, though I'd consider it just for M30. However I'm unaware if M30 has an english option, and my ability to multitask has been severely compromised by multiple head trauma...

[spanner]

It's the only game I could get with the full control over a valkyrie, that also had a story and dialogue I could follow easily. It is thankful that you can skip the developer logo screens, do that I didn't have to watch that giant, noisy, kick in the happy sack, that is the HG logo screen.

I hate HG with such passion, I'd like to take each of thee primary culprits of the abortion that is robotech, and the entire HG legal staff, and stake them out by their nuts, and set them aflame... They have pissed on so much that I love; Transformers, Battletech, Macross, they even managed to piss off GI Joe fans, which are somewhat of kindred spirits, as I loved GI Joe as a kid.

Speaking of which, I found a bunch of my old 12" GI Joes the other day whilst going through my stuff. If I ever Get a detolf, they're going in it.

I can't help but feel the same way to be honest!

[Gubaba]

It's okay, Valkyrie Driver... Just watch this a few times.

[Renato]

I had not thought about it that way. Storytelling wise though it just seemed like the cliche "chosen one" routine, which can work, but it just felt a bit forced and hokey. As for frontier, Sure Sheryl is an Idol, and her songs aren't full of deep meaning (at least from what I can tell), but her desire is genuine. She knows what's she doing and why, she wants to entertain, to make people feel good.

I can't believe I'm about to do this, but to use rock music of today as an analogy, comparing Basara and Sheryl is like comparing Clutch to AC/DC. Clutch puts out music that they want to play in their own style, and just says "Imma do my own thing", like Basara. While AC/DC kinda went with the mainstream flow and played what people wanted to hear and was just out to have fun and entertain people, like how I perceived Sheryl.

Now this is all my perceptions, you might have a different view and I'm not trying to argue against it, simply stating my case.

Basara is undoubtedly the protagonist, and I'm supposed to like him, I want to like him, but I think his character was poorly executed and shallow. For the record I'll state that again, I want to like Basara. However, his relation to the rest of the show, the other characters, the setting itself, is so disconnected he comes across as selfish and obnoxious, and I can't help but hate him for it.

And maybe that's why I have such an issue with it. Because up to this point, my perception of Macross (I had seen M2, SDFM, Plus, and Frontier before M7) was that it was very concerned with consequences, and how the character relates to them, and that it was more realistic in this regard.

I don't know why you are going off and comparing Basara and Sheryl, and then further comparing that comparison to comparing Clutch to AC/DC. I know you are trying to make a point, one about one side doing whatever they want, and another just playing music that the audience wants to hear. OK, well, let's go with that then. Why bother with the outside example when that very dynamic you have described exists within the show in question -- Macross 7!

What are Mylene and Basara arguing about all the time? Music! And their different attitudes towards it! Mylene is the one who is constantly berating Basara for doing things on his own musically, for playing whatever he wants, whenever he wants. When she is asked why she sings, she quickly replies "that's easy, to make people happy, give them a good time." Ray (and later Gamlin) explain to her that maybe Basara wants something more, and sees in music something she doesn't (yet). You don't need to bring up Sheryl or AC/DC. That is why Mylene is there, to provide that counterpoint to Basara -- You obviously are supposed to share her views about his obnoxious nature at the start of the show. She's the one that gets the gigs, books the recording studio, does everything to "get a hit so we can make our big break", but Basara just DOESN'T CARE, and he says so outright.

The same with Gamlin. He felt everything you described in the previous page. Basara is disrupting military protocol, Basara is a menace and a danger to the missions, etc. That is why he is there!!

Characters and their relationships are important, dude.

You know, I feel like I often have to explain this show. I'm not even defending it anymore. Just *explaining*... Man, did ANYONE watch this show?? Was it just a hallucination of mine? You are free to interpret what you see onscreen as you like, and our opinions may differ on that matter, but did you actually see what I saw?

Clutch puts out music that they want to play in their own style, and just says "Imma do my own thing", like Basara. While AC/DC kinda went with the mainstream flow and played what people wanted to hear and was just out to have fun and entertain people, like how I perceived Sheryl.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Renato

[grigolosi]

Driver I definitely agree with you on HG. I would also go as far as to burn their building, troll cave, shack of evil, or whatever you want to call it to the ground. Then sweep the ashes into a pit, fill the pit and then build an industrial size parking garage over it.

Now in regards to Basara I couldn't really appreciate his character in M7 either. Yes there are differences in the music and that is understandable considering how music in the real world changes. You have to keep in mind the musical influences of the time it was made influenced what went into M-7 at the time. But to me there was something missing from his character. The most common emotion expressed from him was his yelling to make people listen to his music. Driver is right in my view also that he just jumped into things without any fore thought to consequences. After how many attempts to calm everyone with his music and those damn speaker pods you would think he would have gone about formulating a new approach. Personality wise he didn't seem to have a lot of appeal, to me he acted like a moody, boring, sober version of Jim Morrison with a pilots license.

Edited August 18, 2015 by grigolosi

[Valkyrie Driver]

I don't know why you are going off and comparing Basara and Sheryl, and then further comparing that comparison to comparing Clutch to AC/DC. I know you are trying to make a point, one about one side doing whatever they want, and another just playing music that the audience wants to hear. OK, well, let's go with that then. Why bother with the outside example when that very dynamic you have described exists within the show in question -- Macross 7!

What are Mylene and Basara arguing about all the time? Music! And their different attitudes towards it! Mylene is the one who is constantly berating Basara for doing things on his own musically, for playing whatever he wants, whenever he wants. When she is asked why she sings, she quickly replies "that's easy, to make people happy, give them a good time." Ray (and later Gamlin) explain to her that maybe Basara wants something more, and sees in music something she doesn't (yet). You don't need to bring up Sheryl or AC/DC. That is why Mylene is there, to provide that counterpoint to Basara -- You obviously are supposed to share her views about his obnoxious nature at the start of the show. She's the one that gets the gigs, books the recording studio, does everything to "get a hit so we can make our big break", but Basara just DOESN'T CARE, and he says so outright.

The same with Gamlin. He felt everything you described in the previous page. Basara is disrupting military protocol, Basara is a menace and a danger to the missions, etc. That is why he is there!!

Characters and their relationships are important, dude.

You know, I feel like I often have to explain this show. I'm not even defending it anymore. Just *explaining*... Man, did ANYONE watch this show?? Was it just a hallucination of mine? You are free to interpret what you see onscreen as you like, and our opinions may differ on that matter, but did you actually see what I saw?

Clutch puts out music that they want to play in their own style, and just says "Imma do my own thing", like Basara. While AC/DC kinda went with the mainstream flow and played what people wanted to hear and was just out to have fun and entertain people, like how I perceived Sheryl.

My only response to this, is that I'm watching through the show again, so see if I catch anything different this time around.

Driver I definitely agree with you on HG. I would also go as far as to burn their building, troll cave, shack of evil, or whatever you want to call it to the ground. Then sweep the ashes into a pit, fill the pit and then build an industrial size parking garage over it.

Now in regards to Basara I couldn't really appreciate his character in M7 either. Yes there are differences in the music and that is understandable considering how music in the real world changes. You have to keep in mind the musical influences of the time it was made influenced what went into M-7 at the time. But to me there was something missing from his character. The most common emotion expressed from him was his yelling to make people listen to his music. Driver is right in my view also that he just jumped into things without any fore thought to consequences. After how many attempts to calm everyone with his music and those damn speaker pods you would think he would have gone about formulating a new approach. Personality wise he didn't seem to have a lot of appeal, to me he acted like a moody, boring, sober version of Jim Morrison with a pilots license.

The music doesn't bother me in the least, I actually quite like it. Basara did sort of fit the definition of insanity though, doing the same thing over and over expecting different results...

[Tochiro]

Yet in the end, he gets those different results.

He doesn't need to move when the galaxy ends up moving for him.

Think of him as a musical version of the Juggernaut ;-)

[Renato]

Yes, I believe the lyrics to Fire Bomber's popular song, "Try Again", are:

Try once, Try once,

If it doesn't work, give up,

Try once, try once,

The sun won't rise again tomorrow.

How uplifting!

[Valkyrie Driver]

Yet in the end, he gets those different results.

He doesn't need to move when the galaxy ends up moving for him.

Think of him as a musical version of the Juggernaut ;-)

Just because you get the results you want doesn't make you not insane. Yes things go the way he wants them to, but variables are changing outside his influence, and those changes are not all directly related to him.

A sane person tries to get results, and might try multiple variations on a theme, to get those results, but Basara just charges in shooting speaker pods at everything and singing his heart out.

I mean, kudos to him for being him, but he's one of those guys where you just want to take him aside and shake him, violently, hoping that will cure his madness.

So far the only thing impeding my progress in this rewatch, is the repetitiveness of Basara, the slow pace of developments, and this Forum... I'd be a lot further if I understood more than preschool level Japanese.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Valkyrie Driver

[Gubaba]

Just because you get the results you want doesn't make you not insane. Yes things go the way he wants them to, but variables are changing outside his influence, and those changes are not all directly related to him.

A sane person tries to get results, and might try multiple variations on a theme, to get those results, but Basara just charges in shooting speaker pods at everything and singing his heart out.

This is really just spinning wheels... Based on what you've said, it doesn't sound like much about the series really stuck with you...

[Valkyrie Driver]

This is really just spinning wheels... Based on what you've said, it doesn't sound like much about the series really stuck with you...

Which Is why I'm watching it again.

[Mr March]

Valkyrie Driver

I think you’re laboring under the creative conceit of the Macross 7 setting. Yes, Basara does not act like any human being would ever act and yes, outside of Macross 7, he is insane because the Macross 7 setting would not be there to prove him right. A sort of "Don Quixote" of anime, if you will. But you as the audience MUST accept the creative conceit of the anima spiritia and the creative conceit of the Protodevlin as written. These two supernatural elements provide the staging for the Basara character to work as a functional human that is not insane.

I think folk’s anger/frustration is due to the highly specialized, very specific creative conceit that’s absolutely necessary for Basara to be a functional character. It’s rare in fiction for characters with such an extreme functional dependence upon narrative. I know countless folks on MW over the years objected to him for simpler reasons as well. The difference between Basara and other protagonists is most are likable, charming, empathetic or relatable while Basara is none of those. He’s arrogant, ignorant, abrasive, flippant, aloof, humorless, and more plot than character. He’d be the perfect patron saint of the angry on the internet, if only most didn’t hate him so much, LOL

I grew up in the 80's, but Robotech wasn't on tv where I grew up. However, my first exposure to anything Macross were pics in the Sears and JC Penny catalogs of the old Matchbox toys. I had no frame of reference, and I doubt that I even realized that the 'veritechs' transformed. I was aware of Jetfire, of course, but never made the Macross connection until many years later. Fast forward to the early 90's, I was stationed in Florida, and Robotech was shown in the early morning cartoon block (back when such a thing still existed), so I caught a few eps here and there, but not enough to follow it. In '95 I was checking out a Japanese hobby magazine at the local comic book store. My "eureka" moment came when I came across a pic in an ad of what was to become Yamato's 1/72 YF-19. I was completely amazed by it...so poseable and realistic! Bear in mind, up to that time, Transformers were my gauge for all transformable mecha. Anyway, I discovered that it came from something called Macross Plus, which I believe I rented, and later bought, on VHS. I also later bought the Bandai VF-19 Kai model at that same store, although I was blissfully unaware at that time that it was from Macross 7. Macross Plus was my introduction to Macross, and I still consider it one of the best animated series I've seen.

It never ceases to amaze me how many folks were introduced (or re-introduced) to Macross through Macross Plus. I also came back into the Macross fandom through “Plus”. I had tried to watch Robotech as a young adult and couldn’t stomach it. Years later I had started getting back into anime through things like Ghost In the Shell, Vampire Hunter D and other fare when I stumbled upon Macross Plus. Once I watched it, I was hooked all over again. And all the world building in Macross Plus that I didn’t understand motivated me to see more of the franchise. I eventually watched the original SDF Macross series and purchased the expensive Animeigo restoration set. Everything in Plus came together perfectly once I watched the original series unedited.

[VF5SS]

He’s arrogant, ignorant, abrasive, flippant, aloof, humorless, and more plot than character.

It never ceases to amaze me who many people purport sweeping statements about Macross 7, when they can't even describe the male lead properly.

[Valkyrie Driver]

Valkyrie Driver

I think you’re laboring under the creative conceit of the Macross 7 setting. Yes, Basara does not act like any human being would ever act and yes, outside of Macross 7, he is insane because the Macross 7 setting would not be there to prove him right. A sort of "Don Quixote" of anime, if you will. But you as the audience MUST accept the creative conceit of the anima spiritia and the creative conceit of the Protodevlin as written. These two supernatural elements provide the staging for the Basara character to work as a functional human that is not insane.

I think folk’s anger/frustration is due to the highly specialized, very specific creative conceit that’s absolutely necessary for Basara to be a functional character. It’s rare in fiction for characters with such an extreme functional dependence upon narrative. I know countless folks on MW over the years objected to him for simpler reasons as well. The difference between Basara and other protagonists is most are likable, charming, empathetic or relatable while Basara is none of those. He’s arrogant, ignorant, abrasive, flippant, aloof, humorless, and more plot than character. He’d be the perfect patron saint of the angry on the internet, if only most didn’t hate him so much, LOL

You might be right. Which is why I'm going back to watch it again, to see if my brain can handle it, now that I'm not under the constant barrage of daily life in the military.

He’s arrogant, ignorant, abrasive, flippant, aloof, humorless, and more plot than character.

It never ceases to amaze me who many people purport sweeping statements about Macross 7, when they can't even describe the male lead properly.

I think the first few parts of that statement sum him up pretty well. I don't recall if he grows past this, and it's pretty spot on at least as far as I have gone (we'll see).

I just saw Basara fire his first shots in anger. I get that he doesn't think violence is the best solution, I agree, but he doesn't seem to get that sometimes violence is the only solution. I'm going to try to refrain from making any sweeping generalizations about Macross 7, since I apparently don't remember it all that well (it has been a few years).

Mr. March does bring up a good point about my ability to accept the creative conceit and just sit back and enjoy the ride.

[Dynaman]

It never ceases to amaze me who many people purport sweeping statements about Macross 7, when they can't even describe the male lead properly.

Seems spot on to me too.

[Renato]

I think the first few parts of that statement sum him up pretty well. I don't recall if he grows past this, and it's pretty spot on at least as far as I have gone (we'll see).

Yes, the first few parts, as in: "arrogant, ignorant, abrasive, flippant...." Hey, are we talking about Nekki Basara or what, because those adjectives seem to describe Isamu Dyson just as well and you seem to like him; he's even in your avatar...

[Gubaba]

Yes, the first few parts, as in: "arrogant, ignorant, abrasive, flippant...." Hey, are we talking about Nekki Basara or what, because those adjectives seem to describe Isamu Dyson just as well and you seem to like him; he's even in your avatar...

And Isamu really did nearly kill at least one of his comrades.

[Valkyrie Driver]

I think the aloof an humorless bits are also true about Basara. Yes, Dyson was arrogant, flippant, and abrasive but he wasn't ignorant. Dyson was cocky, but he had skill to back up his bravado. He was a dick, but he was also capable of being charming and charismatic.

But look, can we move past this, I've said it a bunch of times already, I'm rewatching Macross 7, so let me get a bit more than 10 episodes in before you start singling me out again, please.

[Mr Bomber]

Mine was like most people on america, thru Robotech, which i loved as a kid. I was like 7 or 8 years, around 1987-89.

It marked me and i always had fond memories of it, but never really got to watch it again.

When i was 15 a good friend of mine told me about the robotech/macross history and lend me his VHS copy of Macross 2 which i loved.

Years After that i kept up looking around on internet about macross, and I found a torrent for Macross 7 which i downloaded.

Same with most of other series, and when it was released on DVD i got SDF macross and Macross Pllus.