Banshee's First Impressions of Macross 7!

[Aurora-7]

I think of it as what G-Gundam is to the Gundam franchise. It's meant to be a less serious story.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Aurora-7

[Saruta]

(Just had a note about M7, not exactly for the newbie thread, but not big enough for a new one - and an M7 thread pops up nicely)

I actually like the line with Mylene going nuts for Basara and Basara supposedly not getting it. It just shows he's a responsible adult person despite all his antics.

I mean she is a 14 year old girl and does what 14 year old girls do when getting to be around a guy who, in their opinion, rocks the world. And he handles it just as he should.

Milia trying to marry off a teenage girl sounds a bit awkward until you remember her cultural background. And then it makes sense, too.

[JB0]

(Just had a note about M7, not exactly for the newbie thread, but not big enough for a new one - and an M7 thread pops up nicely)

I actually like the line with Mylene going nuts for Basara and Basara supposedly not getting it. It just shows he's a responsible adult person despite all his antics.

Sorry, I still read Basara as simply not realizing Mylene had a crush on him. He wasn't ignoring her because it was the grown-up thing to do, he was just completely oblivious.

Milia trying to marry off a teenage girl sounds a bit awkward until you remember her cultural background. And then it makes sense, too.

Also worth noting that SHE got married at fifteen, to a sixteen-year-old.

I'm sure Max tried to explain and just got "She's almost as old as I was when I got married!"

And of course, after armageddon happened, things changed pretty rapidly, so it's not like she could just look around and assemble some rational frame of reference for "normal" human life.

[sketchley]

I actually like the line with Mylene going nuts for Basara and Basara supposedly not getting it. It just shows he's a responsible adult person despite all his antics.

Very interesting. Earlier today, I was thinking about why I dislike MF so much, and concluded that its because the characters (even the majority of the adults!) act very immature, whereas most everyone in M7 IS mature, except for the characters that are supposed to be immature (I.e. Mylene). Basara being a good example on how he approaches his process of changing the world, especially in how he reacts in the face of adversity.

Sorry, I still read Basara as simply not realizing Mylene had a crush on him. He wasn't ignoring her because it was the grown-up thing to do, he was just completely oblivious.

I'm of the opinion that he was more interested in making music (or changing the world with music) than the usual "perks" of being a rock star (that being sampling T & A). It's implied that he does take his pants off once or twice with a woman in the series, but he's never portrayed as taking advantage of all the women who offer themselves (and more than a handful are depicted doing that).

So, I think it's a stretch to say that Basara was ignoring Mylene specifically or was oblivious to her feelings in particular, but I do agree in principal in a general sense of him ignoring the opposite sex for the sake of his music.

Edited October 3, 2014 by sketchley

[Nekko Basara]

Having just recently re-watched the episodes where first Rex and then Akiko (both possessed by Sivil) throw themselves at Basara, I have to agree that Basara is doing more than just specifically ignoring Mylene because she's immature. He is just flat out oblivious. I think it's mostly a devotion to his music, but it also feels a bit like a joke that "doesn't play." Although I did get a chuckle when he told Akiko that she was stepping on his hot dog. Symbolism?

[Aurora-7]

As for Mylene and Gamalin, I think Milia was trying to arrange a marriage but I don't think that it would be immediate. In cultures that arrange marriages, the arrangement can happen when the couple are children and the wedding is set at an appropriate date in the future.

And girls havign crushes on oblivous or unwilling guys seems to be a common theme in anime.

[vsim]

I'm of the opinion that he was more interested in making music (or changing the world with music) than the usual "perks" of being a rock star (that being sampling T & A). It's implied that he does take his pants off once or twice with a woman in the series, but he's never portrayed as taking advantage of all the women who offer themselves (and more than a handful are depicted doing that).

So, I think it's a stretch to say that Basara was ignoring Mylene specifically or was oblivious to her feelings in particular, but I do agree in principal in a general sense of him ignoring the opposite sex for the sake of his music.

I always took it as a combination of being oblivious and him just focusing on his bigger goals with his music. And, yeah, I agree with Sketchley here, he did generally ignore the opposite sex, or at least not pay any extra attention to them. His attention seemed to turn mostly when someone started to understand him.

[Saruta]

Sorry, I still read Basara as simply not realizing Mylene had a crush on him. He wasn't ignoring her because it was the grown-up thing to do, he was just completely oblivious.

Also worth noting that SHE got married at fifteen, to a sixteen-year-old.

I'm sure Max tried to explain and just got "She's almost as old as I was when I got married!"

And of course, after armageddon happened, things changed pretty rapidly, so it's not like she could just look around and assemble some rational frame of reference for "normal" human life.

Is there some canonical source for Max and Milia's ages at marriage? I mean, she made it to ace pilot of her fleet - at fifteen years old? If so she is even cooler tahn I thought but I'd rather have some confirmation.

Also there is a funny - and quite possibly intentional - analogy to a mother who is an immigrant from a culture where early marriage is normal, and trying to push that onto her daughter. To the European mind this immediately brings up Muslims (also, warrior culture), wonder who they could be for the Japanese.

[JB0]

Is there some canonical source for Max and Milia's ages at marriage? I mean, she made it to ace pilot of her fleet - at fifteen years old? If so she is even cooler tahn I thought but I'd rather have some confirmation.

I got their ages off the Compendium. Which should be age at first appearance, so I'm within a year.

I was more impressed by the fact that she made it TO fifteen, honestly.

Remember, the zentradi don't have proper childhoods. They're grown in a cloning chamber and by all appearances, they come out fully-grown and ready to fight.

It's not that she's already an ace at the young age of fifteen, it's that she's a fifteen-year veteran in the craziest and most dangerous part of the army. And in the zentradi army, so she's probably spent most of that time shooting things, and being shot at by a lot of things that failed to hit her. Down time is for people who weren't born to fight.

[Cdr Fokker]

He is just flat out oblivious.

Flat-out oblivious, or just doesn't care / uninterested? There is a distinction to be made...

I always took it as a combination of being oblivious and him just focusing on his bigger goals with his music. And, yeah, I agree with Sketchley here, he did generally ignore the opposite sex, or at least not pay any extra attention to them. His attention seemed to turn mostly when someone started to understand him.

...as noted here.

I think that, in general, he just isn't interested. This can lead to some cases of being oblivious, as he while he is focused on his music, he isn't paying much - if any mind - to other matters, particularly those for which he never really shows much interest at all. That is, when he is oblivious, it is because he doesn't care about those matters and has his attention elsewhere - it's not because he's just plain dense.

[JB0]

I was not being entirely fair when I called Basara oblivious.

I mean, he IS, but it's not just because he's a dunce with no social skills. He is highly preoccupied.

[eight_car]

Very interesting. Earlier today, I was thinking about why I dislike MF so much, and concluded that its because the characters (even the majority of the adults!) act very immature, whereas most everyone in M7 IS mature, except for the characters that are supposed to be immature (I.e. Mylene). Basara being a good example on how he approaches his process of changing the world, especially in how he reacts in the face of adversity.

I'm of the opinion that he was more interested in making music (or changing the world with music) than the usual "perks" of being a rock star (that being sampling T & A). It's implied that he does take his pants off once or twice with a woman in the series, but he's never portrayed as taking advantage of all the women who offer themselves (and more than a handful are depicted doing that).

So, I think it's a stretch to say that Basara was ignoring Mylene specifically or was oblivious to her feelings in particular, but I do agree in principal in a general sense of him ignoring the opposite sex for the sake of his music.

I liked M7, so when I say this next part please keep that ni mind

How in the heck can you say the characters in 7 were better than Frontier? Other than the original (and movie DYRL), MF is THE BEST!

The maturity thing? When Ozma says I'm not an adult I'M A MAN! ...That was priceless!

Ozma, Cathy, Pres, the douche Leon, Grace all acted mature, but they also acted like real people with real faults and humanity!

Sheryl (considering her background) was mature

Alto, Michael, Klan Klan, and even Lucas for their ages acted rather mature

Ranka, on the other hand had some real maturity issues (crushing on a guy who loved her as a little sister, not a romantic interest)

I wonder what the real reason for hating on MF is? The characters were done really well. The singing was spot on awesome (BTW I love the 80's ballad sound of Fire Bomber in M7, I could listen to it all night long!). Heck some of the best moments in MF was the use of some of the more meloncholy songs from Fire Bomber!

[sketchley]

I wonder what the real reason for hating on MF is?

How did the "dislike" in my post transmogrify into the "hate" that appears in your quote?

[eight_car]

How did the "dislike" in my post transmogrify into the "hate" that appears in your quote?

brevity in typing, I should have used dislike. Apologies

[skullmilitia]

Basara and Alto are similar in that they both are more interested in their passion than the women chasing them. M7 just made the triangle aspect confusing.. was it Basara/Mylene/Gamline, or was it Basara/Sivil/Gigle? It's refreshing to me, to see a lead male character stay true to himself than

chase after girls like a stereotypical rock star. Basara was a rock star, Alto was a stage star. Both had ample opportunities, yet chose to stay the path to their intended fate, minus End of Triangle, but the choice was made after Alto finally got to fly in a real atmosphere.

I appreciate that in this age of "chick's man"

[JB0]

M7 just made the triangle aspect confusing.. was it Basara/Mylene/Gamline, or was it Basara/Sivil/Gigle?

I choose to view it as two triangles sharing point Basara.

Which, of course, means Mylene was competing with Sivil and didn't know it.

[jvmacross]

As for the other Protodeviln there's not much to say. Except for those two really annoying twins. I WANT THEM TO ROAST ETERNALLY ON THE SPITS OF A FLAMING HELL!!!!!!!!! And they were only in five episodes or so. Think about that.

Just for you.....

[Nekko Basara]

Don't forget the smoldering love triangle of season 1, Gamlin and Docker competing for the notice of Captain Kinryu.

[Saruta]

Speaking of love - it seems to me that Basara/Sivil is actually a case of star-crossed lovers at the end. Sivil has a very good reason for flying away forever. If she loses control, she is lethal to Basara; he was saved once, it might not work out as luckily next time...

...am I stating the obvious?..

Edited October 9, 2014 by Saruta

[JB0]

Speaking of love - it seems to me that Basara/Sivil is actually a case of star-crossed lovers at the end. Sivil has a very good reason for flying away forever. If she loses control, she is lethal to Basara; he was saved once, it might not work out as luckily next time...

...am I stating the obvious?..

I don't think that's true in the end. In the conclusion, the protodeviln become spiritia-creating lifeforms just like humans. Implication: she is no longer an energy vampire, as there is no longer a need to drain spiritia.

I think it's just a case of being better off with her own kind. There would've been a LOT of explaining to do if she'd stuck around on Seven Fleet. And really, while more PERSONAL, their relation wasn't a whole lot DEEPER than Basara and Flower Girl.

[Cdr Fokker]

There would've been a LOT of explaining to do if she'd stuck around on Seven Fleet.

And why is that, exactly?

[Keith]

For all we know, Sivil was pregnant.

[VF-15 Banshee]

Just for you.....

You're on my blacklist now boy. I'm watching you. 3:)

[Lacerta]

I'm glad that I ignored the advice of some folks, and watched Macross 7! The music, the characters (it was great to see Max as a captain) were just fantastic. It's certainly funnier than other Macross series, and that was probably due to it's length and the ability to develop characters better. It probably could've done with less filler, but that's really only apparent towards the final 5 episodes.

[JB0]

Likewise. I don't regret watching Mac7. I have very mixed feelings about it, and think it could've been done far better with mostly slight changes, but overall I enjoyed the run.

[Zinjo]

Every Macross fan should watch M7 at least once and make up their own mind. It really annoyed me the first time, but the second time I was more analytical and discovered particularly what bothered me about it.

With that filter in mind, I was able to appreciate many of the merits of the show. It won't make it into my top ten favorite Macross productions, but it had some merits. I could have dismissed it with generalities like some do with respect to certain productions, but stuck it out and can honestly say I am not an M7 hater, just not a fan .

Edited November 17, 2014 by Zinjo

[Dio]

7 still ranks as my favorite series after all these years. To me it had the best of 2/3 of the pillars of Macross: music and relationships. The Valkyries get edged out by Plus, due to being somewhat derivative, but still put a neat spin on them.

[Nekko Basara]

Every Macross fan should watch M7 at least once and make up their own mind. It really annoyed me the first time, but the second time I was more analytical and discovered particularly what bothered me about it.

With that filter in mind, I was able to appreciate many of the merits of the show. It won't make it into my top ten favorite Macross productions, but it had some merits. I could have dismissed it with generalities like some do with respect to certain productions, but stuck it out and can honestly say I am not an M7 hater, just not a fan .

I think that's a fantastic viewpoint. I skipped M7 for years and years because of the bad things I'd read about it; I wish I'd seen more folks saying, "It's not for me, but some folks love it, and every fan should see for themselves."

Also, given how polarizing the show is, I'm pleasantly amazed to see an "old hand" around here who isn't staunchly in one camp or the other. My helmet is off to you!

[Keith]

POWER TO THE DREAM !

Edited November 18, 2014 by Keith

[RyuRoots]

Every Macross fan should watch M7 at least once and make up their own mind. It really annoyed me the first time, but the second time I was more analytical and discovered particularly what bothered me about it.

With that filter in mind, I was able to appreciate many of the merits of the show. It won't make it into my top ten favorite Macross productions, but it had some merits. I could have dismissed it with generalities like some do with respect to certain productions, but stuck it out and can honestly say I am not an M7 hater, just not a fan .

Most really divisive shows are like that, I think. Where the best advice you can give is "see for yourself", to fans in general. I stayed away from Gundam ZZ for a long time due to general fan discontent, but after rewatching Zeta and watching ZZ, I enjoyed the former a *lot* less and really had a blast with the latter. I still think M7 is garbage in every respect that isn't the music or some of its art/designs, but I wouldn't tell someone not to watch it based on that.

On a tangent, I've seen the comparison between M7 and G Gundam that Aurora-7 makes a number of times elsewhere and from different people, but I don't think it's a good one mainly since G Gundam didn't follow Universal Century and was never meant to fit into that timeline; M7 feels weird partly because it *does* explicitly tie in to SDFM and Plus.

[Zinjo]

I think that's a fantastic viewpoint. I skipped M7 for years and years because of the bad things I'd read about it; I wish I'd seen more folks saying, "It's not for me, but some folks love it, and every fan should see for themselves."

Also, given how polarizing the show is, I'm pleasantly amazed to see an "old hand" around here who isn't staunchly in one camp or the other. My helmet is off to you!

Once upon a time, this was not so grasshoppa... Some of the debates Keith and I had over the show were like knife fights in a phone booth...

Edited November 21, 2014 by Zinjo

[Nekko Basara]

Once upon a time, this was not so grasshoppa... Some of the debates Keith and I had over the show were like knife fights in a phone booth...

Are you and Keith married now? I know what knife fights mean in Macross!

[JB0]

That only applies to knife fights in a park. Without the park it's just a knife fight, with the park it's an ancient zentradi engagement ritual.

[Zinjo]

That only applies to knife fights in a park. Without the park it's just a knife fight, with the park it's an ancient zentradi engagement ritual.

What he said...

[Skull Leader]

For the most part I actually enjoyed Macross 7... but I had a few issues:

1. Canned combat footage (I really felt that by the time M7 came around, the animation community should've been beyond this)

2. Basara was a complete douche (right for the character or not, if I had known the guy in real life, I would've punched him in the throat) and WAY too John Lennon-ish

3. "anima spiritia". 'nuff said.

4. Totsugeki Love Heart, and Planet Dance... WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY overused

5. Your average UN Spacy pilot couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a handful of corn, or dodge even the slowest of projectiles. Congratulations Battle Seven, your airwing is the Special Olympics of the entire UN Fleet. and while we're on the subject....

6. For a New Macross-class battlefortress, Battle Seven went down like my ex-fiance' in a bar full of sailors after only a couple of shots against Gelpernitch. ... and while we're on THAT subject...

7. It's a MAN, baby! Yeah! (despite both looking and sounding like a woman.... probably the joke of the survey team before the protodevilin possessed him, and probably got beat up a lot as a kid)

Some of my personal highlights:

1. Max is old, but can still cook a few fools

2. Macross IIs soundtrack getting used in Mac 7

3. Milia rocking the VF-1J, if only for a few episodes

4. Pretty much the entire Fire Bomber soundtrack, including the Dynamite stuff

5. Basara's belief that his song could move mountains... I actually found this touching somehow, despite how much I hated the character

6. Definitely a Rex guy... dem boobies...

7. Veffidas and her IDGAF attitude, always drumming away

Still one of the two weakest entries in the series to me (next to Zero), but I'll watch the series every other year or so.