Mechwarrior Online

[the white drew carey]

I'm usually not the kind of guy to play games online because I know how addicted I get to games, and I really, really want to have a life.

However, it seems that in 2012 Mechwarrior Online will go live. And I've always loved piloting a mech. I remember back in the day going to the Battletech Center in Chicago. Uff-da!

Anyhow, here's a link to the site. I guess it is F2P, and from an article on Ars Technica, they say that there will be items that you can buy with real world cash, but "any item that would give players a tactical advantage will have to be earned by playing the game."

Right now you can sign up to "reserve your pilot name". I was tempted to use my old Battletech Center call sign, Pavarotti, but opted for the white drew carey.

It also seems like they have tweaked some of the designs, as shown in the media page, specifically the Atlas, Jenner, and Hunchback. I've attached a comparison sheet to see the improvements (?).

[Duke Togo]

Bad mecha designs are still bad. Love the idea, but it's a sticking point for me.

[Dynaman]

I like the new ones better, especially the Atlas. If it is F2P I will be giving it a try.

[Penguin]

I'll give it a whirl too. Always been a Mechwarrior fan. Here's hopin' there are some sweet light to medium designs. I always preferred scout roles. The Game page talks about information warfare being a key part of the game. I'd love to get back in the cockpit of a tricked-out Raven.

[VF5SS]

how does any of this solve the leg shooting problem

[Knight26]

So is this in leiu of that awesome looking mechwarrior game we heard about last year?

[VF5SS]

So is this in leiu of that awesome looking mechwarrior game we heard about last year?

http://mwomercs.com/news/2011/10/2-dev-blog-0

It's basically what they decided to do because of what happened.

Love how they lie about Harmony Gold.

[raptormesh]

Being a long time btech fan, I kinda like the new designs. You can book your pilot's name at their website as well.

[TehPW]

^{wow, VF5SS can you been any harsher towards them? its almost as if you support HG or something...}

[Einherjar]

Maybe I'll try it when it comes out.

[anime52k8]

Oh Yeah, Harmony Gold

Contrary to all the press and speculation that Harmony Gold was getting in the way of a deal or development, this had no impact whatsoever on development or signing a deal for MechWarrior.

lol.

[VF5SS]

^{wow, VF5SS can you been any harsher towards them? its almost as if you support HG or something...}

You know better than that.

I just believe Battletech needs to let go of something they used without the right holder's consent due to 80's fookery.

[Penguin]

The statement's likely, technically, true. Making a deal with a publisher has got nothing to do with Harmony Gold, and development's about design and writing code. As to which designs make it into the game... that's another point entirely.

[Einherjar]

The statement's likely, technically, true. Making a deal with a publisher has got nothing to do with Harmony Gold, and development's about design and writing code. As to which designs make it into the game... that's another point entirely.

Here's a list of what's definitely not making it. Note that the Warhammer (original or IIC) was in the 2009 trailer and is what pretty much started this fiasco. It may never be seen again.

http://www.mektek.ne...een-again-r1283

Edited November 2, 2011 by Einherjar

[Penguin]

Yeah, I read that too. Heresay is that Topps decided to play it safe and just dump them all. Shame. Macross designs aside, I woulda loved seeing the Dougram-inspired designs again. The Phoenix versions just don't capture the same feel... except maybe the Locust. Don't mind that update so much.

[VF5SS]

The Locust is based on the Ostall from Crusher Joe actually.

Like how the Galleon is just the Galleon

oops

[jenius]

The statement's likely, technically, true. Making a deal with a publisher has got nothing to do with Harmony Gold, and development's about design and writing code. As to which designs make it into the game... that's another point entirely.

Ironic that they took a page out of HG's "the issues with Macross' rights don't affect Robotech" playbook. Just like HG will never produce anything in the future that includes anything from Macross, neither will MW include anything that HG has claimed.

[Keith]

You know better than that.

I just believe Battletech needs to let go of something they used without the right holder's consent due to 80's fookery.

There's also the fact that they, along with whateve company bought up gametek & robotech crystal dreams are the reason HG went so sue happy.

[frothymug]

Am I to assume that HG's involvement in this is that Mechwarrior used some Macross designs in their game? I remember the Marauder looking like a Glaug, but was it the Spartan that also got lifted?

[mrhillz]

I can't wait to get a VF-1A, I mean a W.A.S.P. ! Seriously, I'll bite, already reserved a name.

[Keith]

Am I to assume that HG's involvement in this is that Mechwarrior used some Macross designs in their game? I remember the Marauder looking like a Glaug, but was it the Spartan that also got lifted?

Everything shy of the Monster was lifted, and even then I'm not sure.

[hulagu]

Everything shy of the Monster was lifted, and even then I'm not sure.

Hell, for a while, some of the VF-1 ripoff designs could even transform battroid/gerwalk/fighter until the L

AM rules were redacted.

Edited November 2, 2011 by hulagu

[taksraven]

Sorry, I thought that they were putting out an actual *game*, not this online crap. To hell with this.

[Keith]

Sorry, I thought that they were putting out an actual *game*, not this online crap. To hell with this.

It would have been slower and considerably suckier than Gundam Extreme Vs anyway.

[bluemax151]

I'm kind of confused what all the hubbub in regards to the unseen is about. I could have sworn Catalyst stated they were going to have them all redesigned (by the original artists) anyway?

I'm pretty disappointed by F2P online route but it's the status quo these days.

[Dynaman]

Hell, for a while, some of the VF-1 ripoff designs could even transform battroid/gerwalk/fighter until the L

AM rules were redacted.

I've got those rules, and have no intention of "upgrading" them...

[hulagu]

I'm kind of confused what all the hubbub in regards to the unseen is about. I could have sworn Catalyst stated they were going to have them all redesigned (by the original artists) anyway?

I'm pretty disappointed by F2P online route but it's the status quo these days.

Apparently, the redesigned Unseen were still too close for comfort for certain someones, if that Warhammer/Destroid Tomahawk in the trailer was to go by. They should have worked backwards from the Project Phoenix retcon designs, or set it in another time period altogether. Way to derail your own project, people.

Edited November 2, 2011 by hulagu

[Load Master]

Wow the only reason I bought the game back in around 1988 was the Macross designs. The remaining in-house designs are so laughable, ugly and pathetic that the whole world has no appeal whatsoever and I can't understand why anyone would want to play this new game.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Load Master

[raptormesh]

Wow the only reason I bought the game back in around 1988 was the Macross designs. The remaining in-house designs are so laughable, ugly and pathetic that the whole world has no appeal whatsoever and I can't understand why anyone would want to play this new game.

Funny, the battletech verse has a lot of appeal to me. I don't think the machines in mechwarrior are in anyway synonymous with beauty that's for sure. It's gritty, no nonsense squad based mech warfare. No dancing in the skies this one. I guess people who aren't exposed to the tabletop game and the books won't be able to see it, your loss .

[the white drew carey]

You know better than that.

I just believe Battletech needs to let go of something they used without the right holder's consent due to 80's fookery.

Do we know FOR SURE that they didn't have the rights?

Remember that FASA sold the original Nichimo kits under Battletech name, and that was done through a company called (I think) 21st Century Imports, who dealt directly with Tatsunoko.

All I'm saying is that, IIRC, we don't know exactly what went down, or who did or didn't have the rights to what. For all we know, FASA could've sincerely (or naively) thought that they had every right to use the designs. Sure, it was all 80's fookery, but I'm pretty sure Tatsunoko sold to whoever was paying, and didn't give a sh!t about who should end up owning what here in America.

@Penguin- re: Scout roles, you and me both, buddy! Let the heavy hitters stand there and pound each other. I want to be running around like, gathering info, taking quick shots, etc.

@raptormesh- I totally agree with you. A lot of the designs may have stunk, but the world of Battletech is pretty cool, and playing that game was always a blast.

[TheLoneWolf]

Do we know FOR SURE that they didn't have the rights?

Remember that FASA sold the original Nichimo kits under Battletech name, and that was done through a company called (I think) 21st Century Imports, who dealt directly with Tatsunoko.

All I'm saying is that, IIRC, we don't know exactly what went down, or who did or didn't have the rights to what. For all we know, FASA could've sincerely (or naively) thought that they had every right to use the designs. Sure, it was all 80's fookery, but I'm pretty sure Tatsunoko sold to whoever was paying, and didn't give a sh!t about who should end up owning what here in America.

FASA obtained permission from Nichimo to repackage their models kits under the Battletech label. However, Tatsunoko and Harmony Gold were not involved with that deal, directly or indirectly, and that's where the problem began. After the district court ruled against FASA, they privately settled with Tatsunoko and Harmony Gold. The terms of the settlement are confidential, but from my experience, settlements for losing parties usually involve paying out X amount of dollars as a penalty and an agreement to cease the infringing operation.

In 2008, Jordan Weisman foolishly told Piranha Games that it was ok to use Warhammer/Destroid Tomahawk in their game, and the rest is history. I say "foolishly" because even if Weisman genuinely thought that FASA had secured the rights to the Warhammer/Destroid Tomahawk in their settlement, then one would have to wonder why FASA spent the past 13 years actively avoiding the Warhammer/Destroid Tomahawk design, especially considering how popular that design is with fans. A little bit of thought can go a long way.

[VF5SS]

Do we know FOR SURE that they didn't have the rights?

Remember that FASA sold the original Nichimo kits under Battletech name, and that was done through a company called (I think) 21st Century Imports, who dealt directly with Tatsunoko.

All I'm saying is that, IIRC, we don't know exactly what went down, or who did or didn't have the rights to what. For all we know, FASA could've sincerely (or naively) thought that they had every right to use the designs. Sure, it was all 80's fookery, but I'm pretty sure Tatsunoko sold to whoever was paying, and didn't give a sh!t about who should end up owning what here in America.

Selling model kits does not equal the ability to create an entire new franchise based on these designs. It'd be like some German company importing tiny Gundam kits and making their own table top game. And given how Tatsunoko declined to support FASA in any way leads me to believe their deal with them was rather shaky. I've been trying to cajole an old time anime fan who was there to talk about this on my show. Either way, FASA's descendants need to move on.

Funny, the battletech verse has a lot of appeal to me. I don't think the machines in mechwarrior are in anyway synonymous with beauty that's for sure. It's gritty, no nonsense squad based mech warfare.

Yeah there's no nonsense in this thing or the 20 ton car with a fusion engine or this thing with the boomerang in its leg. Battletech is really nothing but nonsense from its core rules to the universe that's too stupid to build a simple lead indicator for a gun sight without a 1 ton computer.

No dancing in the skies this one. I guess people who aren't exposed to the tabletop game and the books won't be able to see it, your loss.

Jump jetting is pretty much dancing in the skies. At least it has to be pretty accurate to allow 'mechs to move on the bounce and leap from building to building while spinning around to land in any direction.

I have at least a dozen books, map sheets, miniatures, and other knickknacks I've collected over the years. I've played the game often with friends and even online using Megamek. I don't really care about the universe because whatever, generic sci-fi future with some politics I don't care about.

Honestly I have had fun with the game and I do have a fascination with it, but I have no illusions that it is anything but a terrible old system that needs to be replaced. I know that would mean throwing out all the rules-whoring Munchkin designs people make but even D&D managed to survive several revisions.

Battletech is almost schizophrenic in the way it abstracts some concepts as high level ideas but then throws it all in with pointless minutiae. The color in the dot hit point system is archaic, weapons fire is needlessly finicky, the friggen piloting roll chart is endless, and all other things that make any game with heavier 'Mechs or battles with more than 4 units aside even more glacial than a standard game.

And really the constant bleating of "walking tank" by fans and developers who bought into it only makes 'Mechs seem incredibly useless even in their own universe. There's nothing gritty or realistic about giant robots that fail to hit each other with lasers and autocannons at less that a kilometer apart when they move like 70's tin walking toy. Oh but we can't make the hex sizes too big because then everything would be too fast amirite. I'm not saying combined arms isn't something a lot of sci-fi universes need, but if you're going to have giant robots you need them to perform an effective role on the battlefield.

I consider the humble Scopedog to be far more gritty and realistic than any Battlemech. For one thing it was designed by a guy who learned how do draw limbs that appear like they can move ya know. Not like most Battletech are where artists struggle with a hip joint. As much as Scopedogs die by act of plot, a few good pilots show that they can effectively engage and fight many different kinds of opponents by using their natural advantages without having to rely on rules twisting around to suit them.

And all of this terrible game design affect the design of the PC games. Remember Mechwarrior 1 where the robots moved so slowly yet the precise laser and PPCs could headshot anything repeatedly over and over again? Mechwarrior 2 didn't have this problem as much because all the weapons were represented by Star Warzy style bolts and blue meatball PPCs. Also in MW2 you didn't fall down and die when you lost a leg. You just stood around on one leg acting like a turret. In MW3 the instant effect lasers were back and the lose a leg and die rule was re-instated. Now you had people running around in LB-X, missile, or laser boats aiming for legs because they still kept the squiddamn board game idea of limbs being giant blocks of hit points. And my brief time playing MW4 taught me that you could medium laser your way to victory because there is almost nothing better than a block of medium lasers.

When you take away the random hit locations of the board game, suddenly these clunky robots become huge targets.

Just see how the developers on this new MW have admitted to struggling on how to reconcile missiles in the game.

Oddly enough the off brand MW2 clone G-Nome was able to model damage on each limb almost literally by the polygon. So de-legging someone was actually difficult. It also offered things like an auto tracking function for your torso and weapons and other little touches.

Also why are so many Battlemechs drawn without basic points of articulation like waist joints when torso turning is a part of the goshdarn rules? Yeah it doesn't matter to the table top setting but Mr. 3d modeler has to deal with it and Mr. Programmer has to take some poor 'Mech (LOOKING AT YOU, BLACKHAWK) and give it 5 degrees of twist to either side because its legs are bolted to its body at the rear. The way it's built has no advantages and even a severe disadvantage in the context of the games. This is bad. Even Armored Core let differently shaped parts do different things.

Don't mind me I've been replaying MW2 for PS1 because I'll be damned if I can get my legit copy of MW2 Mercenaries to play nice with any VMware or DOSbox.

I actually find it genuinely disheartening to see people (not you. well maybe you :x) stick with Battletech and handwave its problems away through the excuse of "well that's just the feel of it all" when it is entirely possible to revamp the system while keeping the same look and feel. I'm certainly no stranger to brand loyalty but sometimes you have to learn to scrutinize a bad thing when you see it. Also I'm pretty tired of Battletech and Mechwarrior fans (again not you personally) lording their stuff over them inferior hippie Japbots because they believe the superior "Western approach" trumps them all.

tl;dr don't get me started :[

p.s. Dougram is better Battletech than Battletech, discuss.

[Dynaman]

don't get me started :[ p.s. Dougram is better Battletech than Battletech, discuss.

First - you have missed the whole point of the game, if you hate the fill in the dots armor then you should just move on with no more comments - this game would never be for you. (I jumped ship after the first rewrite, I was not going to buy the same game over again just for a couple minor rules revisions...)

Is Dougram a game? I thought it was a mecha show.

Now, if you want a good mecha game with nice designs then Heavy Gear is worth a look.

[the white drew carey]

FASA obtained permission from Nichimo to repackage their models kits under the Battletech label. However, Tatsunoko and Harmony Gold were not involved with that deal, directly or indirectly, and that's where the problem began. After the district court ruled against FASA, they privately settled with Tatsunoko and Harmony Gold. The terms of the settlement are confidential, but from my experience, settlements for losing parties usually involve paying out X amount of dollars as a penalty and an agreement to cease the infringing operation.

I think you are wrong here. Given, I haven't bothered with the whole HG/Fasa thing for a while, but I used to own three of the aforementioned kits, and did a lot of research back in the heyday of HG licensing debates, and the kits WERE licensed by Tatsunoko to Twentieth Century Imports (I found the right name). Nichimo was not part of the deal on that, or, if they were, they were a minor participant only to supply product

Since the final resolution between HG and Fasa is undisclosed, we have no way of knowing exactly who did what wrong.

VF5SS- see above. Fasa might legitimately have thought they had full rights to the designs. What you are saying is speculation, as well. Reps from Fasa and, to this day, HG, still state that there is a non-disclosure clause in the settlement. Because of this, the particulars about who had the rights to what are locked away from our prying eyes.

Anyhow, regardless of who had the rights to what, I really enjoyed the Mechwarrior games. The idea of bulky, walking, tanks just comes off so much better in these games than the likes of Armored Core, which wants to have their cake (big heavy mechs) and eat it, too (jumping around like a bunch of fairies on meth).

I'm hesitantly curious about how Mechwarrior Online is going to turn out.

[Dynaman]

Since the final resolution between HG and Fasa is undisclosed, we have no way of knowing exactly who did what wrong.

The fact that BT had to stop using all the designs speaks volumes - if they were in the "right" then they would have continued using those designs. They were a small company and probably did not put due diligence into figuring out the situation with the rights, most likely out of ignorance then malice. Before BT they were doing Traveller adventures and probably thought they knew more about licensing then they really did.