VF5SS Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 So, if everyone hates it, it shouldn't matter because you're rebooting a franchise? Generally you do not cater to the unpleasible hardcore fans as they are your smallest audience. Gauging the reactions from potential new fans and a wider audience is better. Beast Wars would have probably been killed if put in the same situation as RT3k Now are you saying everyone regardless if they were a fan or not panned it? Because in the end you only have to convince sponsors and a network to air it. Did uncle Carl's charms lose their power?
Jasonc Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Generally you do not cater to the unpleasible hardcore fans as they are your smallest audience. Gauging the reactions from potential new fans and a wider audience is better. Beast Wars would have probably been killed if put in the same situation as RT3k Now are you saying everyone regardless if they were a fan or not panned it? Because in the end you only have to convince sponsors and a network to air it. Did uncle Carl's charms lose their power? I remember just about everyone who had a comment on that project, panned it. What saved them/hurt them, depending on which side of the coin you're looking at, was the fact that they had been showing the piece before a full episode was done, or before too much money was put into it. Also, the term "market research" was in the process of changing to incorporate internet research, on a scale unlike what had ever been seen before. I'm not saying the internet hadn't been used before, but it was during a time when concepts and sites like youtube were brand new, and not just the hardcore fans could see things outside of convention walls. That does include sponsors and networks, that at that time and now, use the power of the internet to hear the common voice of the public to measure the potential success/failure of a product. Perhaps had the people working on Beast Wars started marketing the product at the same point in time, they would have either cut the project, or changed aspects of the show. I don't know what woulda/coulda been, but what did happen, is that it was a large group of the fanbase spoke, and the response is now history. Edited March 4, 2012 by Jasonc
Gubaba Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 I remember just about everyone who had a comment on that project, panned it. What saved them/hurt them, depending on which side of the coin you're looking at, was the fact that they had been showing the piece before a full episode was done, or before too much money was put into it. Also, the term "market research" was in the process of changing to incorporate internet research, on a scale unlike what had ever been seen before. I'm not saying the internet hadn't been used before, but it was during a time when concepts and sites like youtube were brand new, and not just the hardcore fans could see things outside of convention walls. That does include sponsors and networks, that at that time and now, use the power of the internet to hear the common voice of the public to measure the potential success/failure of a product. Perhaps had the people working on Beast Wars started marketing the product at the same point in time, they would have either cut the project, or changed aspects of the show. I don't know what woulda/coulda been, but what did happen, is that it was a large group of the fanbase spoke, and the response is now history. I dunno, man...I'm with VF5SS here. Hardcore '70s Battlestar Galactica fans panned the new version before it even aired. Ditto Beast Wars. And yet, those shows still aired, and became popular. Maybe RT3000 would've brought in a New Generation of fans...and tons of dollars with them... I guess HG will never know...
VF5SS Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 Honestly if the inclusion of internet market research seriously scared them off that much then the production was probably teetering on cancelling to begin with. As a business, they should be able to use some common sense to determine that the source of the backlash is not an audience they should be worrying about. It all seems to add up to more cracks in the facade that Robotech is a huge property of great importance.
Gubaba Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 Honestly if the inclusion of internet market research seriously scared them off that much then the production was probably teetering on cancelling to begin with. As a business, they should be able to use some common sense to determine that the source of the backlash is not an audience they should be worrying about. It all seems to add up to more cracks in the facade that Robotech is a huge property of great importance. Totally. Anyone who'd cancel a project based on what fanboys thought of a preview is... Wait. This IS Harmony Gold we're talking about, right? Okay, maybe they DID cancel a million-dollar show based on what thirty or forty fanboys thought.
Cobra__ Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 Generally you do not cater to the unpleasible hardcore fans as they are your smallest audience. Gauging the reactions from potential new fans and a wider audience is better. Beast Wars would have probably been killed if put in the same situation as RT3k Now are you saying everyone regardless if they were a fan or not panned it? Because in the end you only have to convince sponsors and a network to air it. Did uncle Carl's charms lose their power? What you say is true, except that in Robotech's case HG has been left with ONLY hardcore fans. Robotech has gone out the mainstream for years, seriously except for robotech.com and 2 or 3 sites that nobody at large cares about, Robotech is dead in the public conciousness. It wouldn't be a problem IF HG had the balls to do project by themselves and then try to sell it to tv stations, with all the risks this entails. But they won't. They want the tv stations to commit beforehand and of course this is not going to happen. Not for a tv series that has 60+ episodes. And if you think about it not even the japanese do series that span 60+ episodes anymore. Only Sunrise can do something like that for Gundam and we are looking at 50 episodes not 60 or more. Every other animation studio has gone the 26 episodes route integrating with 1 or 2 ovas and maybe a final movie. Macross Frontier for example. Therefore the idea of doing a multi generational story spanning decades is out the window wether HG realises it or not. Even for a scrooge like company like HG, investing in a 26 episode series could be possible. But more ? Forget it.
renegadeleader1 Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 A big part of RT3K being cancelled was Netter Digital going bankrupt and Yune taking over.
Gubaba Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 What you say is true, except that in Robotech's case HG has been left with ONLY hardcore fans. Robotech has gone out the mainstream for years, seriously except for robotech.com and 2 or 3 sites that nobody at large cares about, Robotech is dead in the public conciousness. It wouldn't be a problem IF HG had the balls to do project by themselves and then try to sell it to tv stations, with all the risks this entails. But they won't. They want the tv stations to commit beforehand and of course this is not going to happen. Not for a tv series that has 60+ episodes. And if you think about it not even the japanese do series that span 60+ episodes anymore. Only Sunrise can do something like that for Gundam and we are looking at 50 episodes not 60 or more. Every other animation studio has gone the 26 episodes route integrating with 1 or 2 ovas and maybe a final movie. Macross Frontier for example. Therefore the idea of doing a multi generational story spanning decades is out the window wether HG realises it or not. Even for a scrooge like company like HG, investing in a 26 episode series could be possible. But more ? Forget it. I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT... ...SO HERE'S NOEL FIELDING DANCING TO "WUTHERING HEIGHTS."
Cobra__ Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 A big part of RT3K being cancelled was Netter Digital going bankrupt and Yune taking over. They could have found another partner to continue the project isn't that so ? RT3K failed 100% because HG was taken hostage by the hardcore fans. They said jump and HG jumped. And all we have now is a half assed reboot that's worse then even the original RT3K project. But hey thats progress I suppose.
renegadeleader1 Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 They could have found another partner to continue the project isn't that so ? RT3K failed 100% because HG was taken hostage by the hardcore fans. They said jump and HG jumped. And all we have now is a half assed reboot that's worse then even the original RT3K project. But hey thats progress I suppose. No after Netter went up in flames HG went to Tatsunoko to create a more anime 2D styled RT3K. After some pre-production art and charcter designs were made Tommy Yune got hired, everything got canned and SC started up.
Cobra__ Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 No after Netter went up in flames HG went to Tatsunoko to create a more anime 2D styled RT3K. After some pre-production art and charcter designs were made Tommy Yune got hired, everything got canned and SC started up. Maybe Tatsunoko asked too much money ? HG has to retarget the franchise. The idea of doing 60-80+ episodes has left the barn 10 years ago. You simply can't do something like that without massive sponsors and lots and lots of money. So what is left to do ? Either a mini series every 5 or 6 years. Something like a 13 episode tv series or a 25-56 episodes tv series. Think Madoka Magica or Macross Frontier type series. Integrate the storyline every now and then with some ova (using up to date technology so no 30 year old footage). And mostly keep the flow coming. You can't do a one off project and then stay low for 15 years. Your fansbase will simply desintegrate.
azrael Posted March 4, 2012 Author Posted March 4, 2012 Didn't Tom Bateman mention that HG made enough money from the sales of RTSC to move forward with a sequel, and yet here we are how many years later? Yeah, I'm not sure about that marketing research-comment either.
Jasonc Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 I dunno, man...I'm with VF5SS here. Hardcore '70s Battlestar Galactica fans panned the new version before it even aired. Ditto Beast Wars. And yet, those shows still aired, and became popular. Maybe RT3000 would've brought in a New Generation of fans...and tons of dollars with them... I guess HG will never know... Well, you can agree, but that still doesn't change the reasons why it didn't move forward, and that was an overwhelming bad response by the fans. Also, just because it didn't happen the same way with other shows, doesn't mean that HG has to, or would follow suit. To use Beast Wars, or BSG as a referrence doesn't work, especially for a company that doesn't necessarily do production. As for Netter Digital going bankrupt, I know that was one of the issues that made the decision easier, but not he deciding factor. It seems in every case where a planned series failed, it had more than one reason. Didn't Tom Bateman mention that HG made enough money from the sales of RTSC to move forward with a sequel, and yet here we are how many years later? Yeah, I'm not sure about that marketing research-comment either. I think he did mention that, and from the research I got years ago, it did do well enough. As for why we're here years later with no sequel, have you read these forums? There's been the issue with WB floating around for IDK, at least 4 years now? Be it to make way for the live action, or for whatever reason they wanna give, I'm sure if WB said to wait, HG is going to wait. As for you not being sure about marketing research, what are you not sure about?
Keith Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 I've said it before, and I'll say it again. HG "should have" worked out a clause in their contract with WB to get Bruce Timm's animation team to do mini-robotech movies.
Jasonc Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 I'm personally happy with nothing coming from them. If they can't do anything original or creative worthwhile, don't do anything at all.
Keith Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 I'm personally happy with nothing coming from them. If they can't do anything original or creative worthwhile, don't do anything at all. Sorry, I should have prefaced with "if they actually want to be successful with the franchise." Obviously it should be burried like the beaten horse it is
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