Sir Galahad® Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 What are their fan demographics anyway? Since everyone is suggesting a reboot or a reimagining. Any fans below 20 for example?
Jasonc Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Your words would carry more weight if you didn't already make your feelings clear for a while now on robotech. You don't like robotech, I'm cool with that. Its not my place to tell you what you should and shouldn't like. SC was never about gaining new fans, it was about rekindling interest in the fans that grew up watching the show and setting up a springboard with a new enemy and characters that would allow new fans to pick it up with the sequel. They really fumbled the football with this live action/LLA/waiting 5+ years fiasco. Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't say things just to convince you of something, therefore, whatever "weight" you want to apply to it, doesn't mean a thing. As for my stance on Robotech, I never said I don't like it (maybe you should read a little more, or at least comprehend what you read). I liked Robotech, and can appreciate what it was. I make no qualms about what it's become, or saying that it's garbage, but to each their own. It's all good My personal feelings on SC are that I liked it. It wasn't perfect or some world beating classic, but it was still a nice entertaining little romp. The only things I didn't like were eliminating most of the NG characters except Scott when a simple cameo of them standing in the background would had been enough, making the Regis more understanding and sympathetic when she was a complete b**** in the series, and obviously the what happened to Rick thing.Speaking of Rick his look doesn't bother me as much as it does other people. Basically because aging is a tricky thing in anime, I've seen several different characters that in various prequels/sequels that take place at various points in their lives and not look that much alike. Some of those issues of continuity were minor issues compared to some of the glaring other issues that were there, but that's neither here nor there. As for the geriatric Rick Hunter look, it was a bad rendition of him. Aging isn't a tricky thing in anime at all. Every anime I've watched seems to do it quite well, and the only time they'll look very different, is if they show the character going from a child to a senior, or young teen to a senior. Even then, they still have remnants of the character that make it look believable. I'm not saying you should have a problem with the way Rick Hunter looked in Shadow Chronicles. You may have had no problems with it, but apparently, enough people did have an issue with it. I know even Tommy wasn't too thrilled with the outcome of Rick Hunter, but he told me that in hindsight, after a lot of people complained about the design. I have seen a fan's design that would've looked far better, still retains a believable look, and wouldn't get them in trouble with design infringement.
Seto Kaiba Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 What does it matter? Neither is actually more accurate then the other. Touche, sir... I was just curious whether this "news" came from the official Harmony Gold hype machine, or just the usual wishful thinking by their more deluded fanboys. If it's the former, there's at least a tiny chance that they might actually be doing something in the next decade or so. What are their fan demographics anyway? Since everyone is suggesting a reboot or a reimagining. Any fans below 20 for example? Barring the occasional isolated exception, the youngest Robotech fans out there are in their mid-to-late twenties if you were to go by the ages given on discussion boards and whatnot. That's mostly the crowd who were exposed to Robotech in the 90's by Cartoon Network, or by friends and family who'd rediscovered it in the early 00's shortly after Robotech.com went online. The majority of the Robotech fanbase is in its 30's and 40's by now, mostly all the 85'ers who rediscovered it thanks to the internet and the few remaining die-hards who've kept their death grip on the series since the 80's.
Sir Galahad® Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 How is the new Voltron Cartoon doing? I mean both of them appeared roughly the same period, and I think right now that voltron is trying to revive it's franchise (even without trying to rely on the Live Action) I think they are seriously lazy as all they think of are ova's and ost's... from a series long long ago. Are they actually doing anything right now?
JuanRT Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 hi to everybody this is my 1st here and I could have create a cloned accpund but that's not my style..... the news came from the panel it was held the past weekend, and Seto that was not wishful thinking by their more deluded fanboys like you said,t he sad thng is we still don't have an acuratte date of release yet and the words soon on Robotech Shadow Rising still on , but at the very least they are not waiting now for the RLAM the Robotech Love Live Alive, sad as it to me is Robotech Untold Story all over again, and we all know how that went. I love Robotech soo much, but to me this is realily check and my 1st post here so be gentle
Keith Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 hi to everybody this is my 1st here and I could have create a cloned accpund but that's not my style..... the news came from the panel it was held the past weekend, and Seto that was not wishful thinking by their more deluded fanboys like you said,t he sad thng is we still don't have an acuratte date of release yet and the words soon on Robotech Shadow Rising still on , but at the very least they are not waiting now for the RLAM the Robotech Love Live Alive, sad as it to me is Robotech Untold Story all over again, and we all know how that went. I love Robotech soo much, but to me this is realily check and my 1st post here so be gentle Any youtube video of this announcement? Or was it another one of those "camera's off" moments?
Cobra__ Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Your words would carry more weight if you didn't already make your feelings clear for a while now on robotech. You don't like robotech, I'm cool with that. Its not my place to tell you what you should and shouldn't like. SC was never about gaining new fans, it was about rekindling interest in the fans that grew up watching the show and setting up a springboard with a new enemy and characters that would allow new fans to pick it up with the sequel. They really fumbled the football with this live action/LLA/waiting 5+ years fiasco. You're wrong. Shadow Chronicles was all about getting new fans into the franchise. Just because it was a failure doesn't authorise you to rewrite history. But hey I forgot, Robotech is all about rewriting/re-editing history isn't it ? My personal feelings on SC are that I liked it. It wasn't perfect or some world beating classic, but it was still a nice entertaining little romp. The only things I didn't like were eliminating most of the NG characters except Scott when a simple cameo of them standing in the background would had been enough, making the Regis more understanding and sympathetic when she was a complete b**** in the series, and obviously the what happened to Rick thing. SC was a total failure. It was a failure at the animation level, it was a failure at the story level, it was a failure at the character design level. It was an epic failure no buts no ifs. Even as a c grade animation film it was a failure. No redeeming qualities at all. For pete's sake even the first episode of MOSPEADA has more pathos than the SC and that tells a lot. Speaking of Rick his look doesn't bother me as much as it does other people. Basically because aging is a tricky thing in anime, I've seen several different characters that in various prequels/sequels that take place at various points in their lives and not look that much alike. Ha ha now you're graping at straws. Aging in anime is not a complicated thing to do. Of course if the original designs of the characters are verboten to use then yes it amounts to an impossible task. And thats what you got in Shadow Chronicles. If HG hadn't had the "criminal" idea of trademarking the words Macross, UN Spacy and the UN Spacy Symbol around the world; words and symbols that they didn't even invent in the first place well BW/Studio Nue would be a little bit more accomodating (like during the sentinels period).
Cobra__ Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Any youtube video of this announcement? Or was it another one of those "camera's off" moments? Oh c'mon do you even have to ask the question ? According to the luminaries at HG, robotech fans don't use the internet. They don't know what the internet is. Doing promotional things using the internet ? What an heresy !!! The less people know about whats going on in the robotech world, the better it is. That's the HG motto.
Keith Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Oh c'mon do you even have to ask the question ? According to the luminaries at HG, robotech fans don't use the internet. They don't know what the internet is. Doing promotional things using the internet ? What an heresy !!! The less people know about whats going on in the robotech world, the better it is. That's the HG motto. That's why I didn't ask if HG put up video, I'm asking if whichever HG sock monkey puts up the video's put it up.
renegadeleader1 Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Nice. Cobra__ joins today only makes two posts, tells me I'm wrong over my opinion and whines about HG.
VF5SS Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Well I judge people based on what Gundam shows they like so I won't judge you for being entertained by SC. It's hard to discuss SC because it's the most generic sci-fi pilot episode I've ever seen. Plot holes and trouble with the production aside, it has nothing going for it other than being attached to an established property.
Cobra__ Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Nice. Cobra__ joins today only makes two posts, tells me I'm wrong over my opinion and whines about HG. Do you have a problem with this ? Fact is HG has driven what little there was of the robotech franchise six feet under. That is not up for debate. You only have to look at the major anime sites, not one not a single one of them cares to talk about robotech and the shadow chronicles, and no you can't push along a franchise (even a broken one as robotech is) with 2 dozen hardcore fans and no promotional material ever leaking out. HG doesn't leak anything (except when they announce having bought an external hard drive to store production content lol), but then neither do the fans that attend the panels. So you have to wonder if the fans even want for robotech to make its presence known on the web. The only time you hear about robotech on youtube is when deluded fans try to pass DYRL footage, or Macross 2012 Flashback footage or any other kind of macross footage as robotech. And this is wrong on some many levels that I don't even know where to start. In my not so humble opinion HG if it wanted to revitalise the franchise should have build upon the only quality product that robotech has ever produced. And that is the novels by Jack McKinney. By distancing from the source material not only he manged to improve the whole premise of the story, but he managed to give robotech a coherent narrative and an epic scale that just wasn't there in the anime. As for the ending, TEOTC as far as endings go is not bad, maybe a little bit contrived but it managed to close the circle and explain a number of mysteries that went back to the macross saga. So all in all McKinney managed to give the fans a closed, complete and epic universe. Unfortunately fans being fans, and HG being HG it was all thrown out in the toilet during the 2001 purge because the anime is paramount. Yeah, the anime, so full of plot holes and inconsistencies you could drive and SDF-1 through with room to spare. HG and its hardcore fans have dug the grave for robotech, and not even the live action movie if it ever comes out will change this situation.
renegadeleader1 Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 I'd say the Space Travellers anime could give SC a run for its money for most generic pilot episode.
JuanRT Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Any youtube video of this announcement? Or was it another one of those "camera's off" moments? Well Memos was uploading the video, so was on camera, will ley ypu know when is up
renegadeleader1 Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Do you have a problem with this ? HG blah blah blah... The problem I have is you are 1.A lurker that apparently decided to pick me of people to use you first post to vent on. Which I consinder unlikely 2.You've been banned from here and want to start posting again. Could be possible. 3.You created a new screen name as a proxy so you can say what you want without fear of it getting back to your regular name. I'd say very likely.
Gubaba Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 The problem I have is you are 1.A lurker that apparently decided to pick me of people to use you first post to vent on. Which I consinder unlikely 2.You've been banned from here and want to start posting again. Could be possible. 3.You created a new screen name as a proxy so you can say what you want without fear of it getting back to your regular name. I'd say very likely. Still, the points he makes are pretty valid, so I'm not sure it matters who he is. And if he's a member disguised, whether banned or otherwise, the mods'll find out and get rid of him.
JuanRT Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 he saw me posting in here, I think he at getting at me, but it will fail, and not the points are not that dead on, they are off I did not came here to figth, but I'm really fustrated of RLLA, the joke of the animation community, and the fack that in rt.com in the spanish secction is petty dead since they keep banning people that does not like the stuff going there
VF5SS Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Do you have a problem with this ? So all in all McKinney managed to give the fans a closed, complete and epic universe. It's just Dune. We already have Dune.
renegadeleader1 Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 It's just Dune. We already have Dune. There's also the fact that three chapters of The End Of The Circle are a Star Trek parody with a. Kabaran named Captian Kyyrrk.
Gubaba Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 he saw me posting in here, I think he at getting at me, but it will fail, and not the points are not that dead on, they are off I did not came here to figth, but I'm really fustrated of RLLA, the joke of the animation community, and the fack that in rt.com in the spanish secction is petty dead since they keep banning people that does not like the stuff going there Well...he attacked RenegadeLeader's post, not yours, so why do you think he's here for you? Incidentally, I wonder if Love Live Alive would be better received if they'd just bothered to change the title...
Cobra__ Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 The problem I have is you are 1.A lurker that apparently decided to pick me of people to use you first post to vent on. Which I consinder unlikely Nope. I just started answering from one of the last posts that was available. This is a public forum no ? I don't know who you are in real life and don't care. I doubt we even live in the same continent. 2.You've been banned from here and want to start posting again. Could be possible. Nope, wrong again. 3.You created a new screen name as a proxy so you can say what you want without fear of it getting back to your regular name. I'd say very likely. Nope, I still don't understand why some people have problems understanding that not all robotech fans register or give a damn about registering on robotech.com or on any other robotech fan site. You may think being a robotech fan is some kind of religious cult, I don't. And for the record I saw the original robotech broadcast, i had all the palladium RPG books published up uintil the early ninties, I have the whole McKinney novels. So according to you do I pass the test for being a robotech fan yes or no ? Just because I don't give a damn about the robotech anime doesn't make me less of a fan. Although HG sure is pushing me to just forget about this whole robotech business. I'll still enjoy the McKinney novels, and the original Macross RPG game. For me robotech is much more than what as hacked up in the anime, and unfortunately HG never had the balls to do anything good with the franchise all the while frakking over the Macross authors by making it impossible for them to independently put out Macross products outside Japan without paying the mafiaa ticket to HG.
VF5SS Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Incidentally, I wonder if Love Live Alive would be better received if they'd just bothered to change the title... Wait that's the real name? You're joking right.
Cobra__ Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 It's just Dune. We already have Dune. Dune went downhill starting from the 4th chapter, God Emperor of Dune. The Robotech novels at least mantained a good level of quality up until the end more or less. And for 18 volumes thats quite an achievement.
Gubaba Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Wait that's the real name? You're joking right. Yes. They're really calling it Robotech: Love Live Alive. <Insert facepalm of your choice here>
renegadeleader1 Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) Incidentally, I wonder if Love Live Alive would be better received if they'd just bothered to change the title... Honestly? Yes. Even I was like "what the hell?" When it was first announced. My reaction lead to a temporary(reasonably justified) ban on rt.com. Truth is all I'm hoping for now is a 45 min musical ova that bridges some of Southern Cross with new generation. Edited February 20, 2012 by renegadeleader1
Cobra__ Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 There's also the fact that three chapters of The End Of The Circle are a Star Trek parody with a. Kabaran named Captian Kyyrrk. Oh so tragic isn't it ? Jokes likes that are nice to have. All authors do it. Even anime authors do it. Hell you can't look at an anime produced by GAINAX and not see tens of homages to other animes the authors are fan of. Even Macross was full of it.
Cobra__ Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Yes. They're really calling it Robotech: Love Live Alive. <Insert facepalm of your choice here> The problem is not the title, its the fact they'll be reusing 30 year old animation from the original Love Live Alive Genesis Climber Mospeada OAV. What will kill this project is the old animation, it doesn't matter if they manage to produce 5 minutes of new animation. You simple cannot use animation that is a generation old and still expect to have some fans to sell this to. Someone should have the HG guys do a reality check.
Gubaba Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 The problem is not the title, its the fact they'll be reusing 30 year old animation from the original Love Live Alive Genesis Climber Mospeada OAV. What will kill this project is the old animation, it doesn't matter if they manage to produce 5 minutes of new animation. You simple cannot use animation that is a generation old and still expect to have some fans to sell this to. Someone should have the HG guys do a reality check. I'm not sure any Robotech fan who's railing against the new project has actually SEEN Mospeada: Love Live Alive. (NOTE: I am not a supporter of the new project, or really, any Robotech project.) There's barely ten minutes of "new" footage in Love Live Alive, and most of that is a Yellow concert. Whatever Tommy Yune is planning to do with it, it'll have to be HEAVILY reliant on new animation, if he intends it to tell any kind of story at all.
renegadeleader1 Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Oh so tragic isn't it ? Jokes likes that are nice to have. All authors do it. Even anime authors do it. Hell you can't look at an anime produced by GAINAX and not see tens of homages to other animes the authors are fan of. Even Macross was full of it. No. Not all authors do it. The reason is it takes you out of the immersion into the universe you're reading about. Slogging through 3 chapters of parody filler that has 0% bearing on the plot is a mark of bad writing. Homages work in visual media because its usually very quick and over in tthe blink of an eye like the Orguss valkyrie in Macross, or the beer can missile in DYRL. It really doesn't remove you from the immersion. Now imagine if in the Macross tv series we randomly jump away from the SDF-1 to an ARMD crewed by star trek characters arguing with each other for a quarter of an episode. That is what those chapters are.
renegadeleader1 Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 I'm not sure any Robotech fan who's railing against the new project has actually SEEN Mospeada: Love Live Alive. (NOTE: I am not a supporter of the new project, or really, any Robotech project.) There's barely ten minutes of "new" footage in Love Live Alive, and most of that is a Yellow concert. Whatever Tommy Yune is planning to do with it, it'll have to be HEAVILY reliant on new animation, if he intends it to tell any kind of story at all. I have. Its pretty much a clip show that starts with Belmont riding his bike through what I'm guessing is either an old battlefield, or south Detroit. Flashback then off to him preparing for a concert. This is why I said I was just hopefull for a 45 min bridging ova. Otherwhise its rehashed flashback/clip show crap.
Gubaba Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 I have. Its pretty much a clip show that starts with Belmont riding his bike through what I'm guessing is either an old battlefield, or south Detroit. Flashback then off to him preparing for a concert. This is why I said I was just hopefull for a 45 min bridging ova. Otherwhise its rehashed flashback/clip show crap. But...you agree, there's not enough there to build a feature around, right?
Cobra__ Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 I'm not sure any Robotech fan who's railing against the new project has actually SEEN Mospeada: Love Live Alive. (NOTE: I am not a supporter of the new project, or really, any Robotech project.) Wether they have seen it or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the original animation will look OLD and OUT OF PLACE. And that fans will notice especially when they are asked to spend 30-40 $ for it. There's barely ten minutes of "new" footage in Love Live Alive, and most of that is a Yellow concert. Whatever Tommy Yune is planning to do with it, it'll have to be HEAVILY reliant on new animation, if he intends it to tell any kind of story at all. The point being that all of the animation of LLA (wether taken from the Gensis Climber Mospeada series, or made especially for the OAV) is still OLD and it looks OLD. There is simply no way around this problem. Even if you add 5 minutes of 2015 CG animation. Do you think fans and not fans will go for it ? Especially if they have to spend 30 bucks or so to buy it ? My guts tell me (but I could be wrong so evetrything is fair game) that there will of course be new animation, it just won't be most of it. Something like 80% old animation, 20% new animation. That's my guess.
renegadeleader1 Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 But...you agree, there's not enough there to build a feature around, right? Yeah but feature might not be what they are going for. I get the feeling in my gut it will play out in a similar way to the original LLA, and be a collection of musice videos. Some of which are new animation, and others that are clips from the remastered series or SC.
VF5SS Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 The Robotech novels at least mantained a good level of quality up until the end more or less. And for 18 volumes thats quite an achievement. Most of that is just retreading existing material, isn't it? Robotech taking someone else's work and claiming to improve it. Tsk tsk
Cobra__ Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Most of that is just retreading existing material, isn't it? Robotech taking someone else's work and claiming to improve it. Tsk tsk Actually no it isn't. Robotech the anime took somelse's work and re-edited it according to a new script. The novels took the ideas in the script and improved massively upon it. Even if you want to make the connection that protoculture is analogous to spice, its wrong. Because the first has a metaphysical dimension and capacity of shaping historical events. Spice by itself doesn't. So the 2 basic concepts of Robotech the Novel and Dune are not the same. Similar in some respects but not the same by a long shot. Robotech the novel improved so much upon the original robotech concept in the anime that most fans rejected it because it was said to be too different from the anime. And it was, but in this case the difference enabled it to be vastly better than the anime in all respects.
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