HG and Robotech Debates, ep. 8

[Dynaman]

if RT:LLA fails, will HG put RT into a dormant state? Or will it be propped up as gangbusters, and we'll get more luggage tags?

I don't see how it could get any more dormant. And the answer is yes and yes and yes.

Dormant - yes

Hyped as gangbuster - yes

Luggage Tage - yes, once they get off the boat.

[blackconvoy_D01]

I don't see how it could get any more dormant. And the answer is yes and yes and yes.

Dormant - yes

Hyped as gangbuster - yes

Luggage Tage - yes, once they get off the boat.

Maybe 2016 will be "Their Year".

[Darkwater]

So, I'm a little buzzed right now, and I had a date cancel on me last minute. Basically, I'm bored at home alone. I decided to crunch some numbers like the geek I am.

So, here are some pretty sobering numbers on HG's track record over the past 10 years:

# of day since "Love Live, Alive" was announced (Anime Expo 2010): 590 / 1.6 years

# of days since WB Live action movie was announced in development: 1,618 / 4.4 years

# of days since Shadow Rising was announced as being "in production:" (New York Comic-Con 2007) 1,810 / 5 years

# of days since Shadow Chronicles was first released on DVD: 1,831 / 5 years

# of days since Shadow Chronicles debuted to the public (Mechacon, 2006): 2,009 / 5.5 years

# of days since Shadow Chronicles was first announced (Anime Expo 2004): 2,778 / 7.6

# of days since the "New Robotech Series" was announced (Anime Expo 2002): 3,505 / 9.6 years

Edited February 11, 2012 by Darkwater

[Zor Primus]

Ya left out how many days in port that cargo ship with the battelpods was on

[Reïvaj]

Ya left out how many days in port that cargo ship with the battelpods was on

[ps99042]

Darkwater, you should post that on robotech.com. I'm sure that would bring about an interesting discussion.

[blackconvoy_D01]

Darkwater, you should post that on robotech.com. I'm sure that would bring about an interesting discussion.

Adding more fuel to the fire with regards to gangbusters sales of SC, and how taking A LONG time to do things works, LOL! We'll see 'em all in 2016 with new RT calendars, and another re re re re re issue of the original series.

[Einherjar]

So, I'm a little buzzed right now, and I had a date cancel on me last minute. Basically, I'm bored at home alone. I decided to crunch some numbers like the geek I am.

So, here are some pretty sobering numbers on HG's track record over the past 10 years:

# of day since "Love Live, Alive" was announced (Anime Expo 2010): 590 / 1.6 years

# of days since WB Live action movie was announced in development: 1,618 / 4.4 years

# of days since Shadow Rising was announced as being "in production:" (New York Comic-Con 2007) 1,810 / 5 years

# of days since Shadow Chronicles was first released on DVD: 1,831 / 5 years

# of days since Shadow Chronicles debuted to the public (Mechacon, 2006): 2,009 / 5.5 years

# of days since Shadow Chronicles was first announced (Anime Expo 2004): 2,778 / 7.6

# of days since the "New Robotech Series" was announced (Anime Expo 2002): 3,505 / 9.6 years

And people think all of that is perfectly normal for a franchise. Or just this franchise since it's an exemption.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Einherjar

[Keith]

None of those stats explain why it takes so long to release something that's 95% already animated! Are they doing their own inbetween animation in house at the HG office? Are the animators stuck on a boat from China?

[ps99042]

Looks like Steve Yun is trying to earn his paycheck finally.

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/read.php?id=2136652&forumid=23&pagenumber=4#post

They're working on an EP release of "It's You". I guess making the now super late 25th Anniversary Soundtrack is proving too difficult for them so they're just gonna do singles instead. I guess the profit margin is better this way.

[Smegalot]

When it comes to HG. I think we have to think in decades and 4-5 years is short term. As it took over 20 years for them to produce anything new. And the limbo that they are now in is killing the franchise. And until they actually release anything, all they will do is slowly loose what fan base they have left.

Their biggest problem to is what is left of the fan base really want Macross related stuff. And they know that they will not be able to happen as the only real thing Macross related that HG can really release is the version they use in ROBOTECH. And also Macross is to well know as a Franchise in it's own right. With different series and OVA's. And you also get the fanatic fans that occasionally pop up on this board to try and justify that Macross is Ripping off RT. Which is completely Oximoron in it's own way.

But also a failing on there Part is that they have stalled for so long to produce anything. New series, products and have just stuck to a proven route to keep releasing there only Animation. Which was never really their's and try to add more special features to each release hoping that the same people who brought it would buy it again for this extra info. They should of Gone the Blu-ray route for this release as there is only so many times that people will buy the same show again and again. You need a real reason.

And with Funanimation in the States pulling our of marketing the product is not a good sign. as in Austrailia Madman have taken Robotech off there listing as well. Saying that it is off there product list because these companies aren't doing that well is a bogus claim. I just think it is simple business decision. They are here to make money. Why keep producing a product that is not selling. And these places are not closing down. As from what I have seen they are adding more titles. and RT seems to be the only one that is being dumped.

that's my 2 cents worth for now

[Keith]

Looks like Steve Yun is trying to earn his paycheck finally.

http://www.robotech....genumber=4#post

They're working on an EP release of "It's You". I guess making the now super late 25th Anniversary Soundtrack is proving too difficult for them so they're just gonna do singles instead. I guess the profit margin is better this way.

lol, they are beating every inch of that dead horse aren't they?

"Hey, what can we do to stall now?"

"Let's release ep's of each individual song, that way we can prolong trying to do actual work for another 2 years."

[ps99042]

lol, they are beating every inch of that dead horse aren't they?

"Hey, what can we do to stall now?"

"Let's release ep's of each individual song, that way we can prolong trying to do actual work for another 2 years."

It really makes you wonder what they've been doing all this time since they announce the 25th Anniversary Soundtrack. Afterall, we already know Steve had fans emailing him "rare" tracks that HG (somehow) couldn't get themselves. This is really unbelievable though.

[Legioss]

Part of his post was a joke, so I'm assuming the entire thing was a joke. I can't think of how there would be enough of "It's You" to release a single. It's probably going to be In My Heart/Underground. Of course the real question is: why don't they go ahead and release the whole set?

[Gubaba]

Here's something that I believe is unique to Robotech fans:

http://www.robotech....1280&forumid=11

Heck, do Star Trek fans wonder what they can incorporate into Star Trek? Do (original) Battlestar Galactica fans do the same...?

For fudge's sake, do even VOLTRON FANS wonder what other "Combining Robot" shows they can make into another Voltron...?

My sources say no.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Gubaba

[blackconvoy_D01]

Here's something that I believe is unique to Robotech fans:

http://www.robotech....1280&forumid=11

Heck, do Star Trek fans wonder what they can incorporate into Star Trek? Do (original) Battlestar Galactica fans do the same...?

For fudge's sake, do even VOLTRON FANS wonder what other "Combining Robot" shows they can make into another Voltron...?

My sources say no.

Is originality that hard to attain? That reminds me of a conversation we had about being able to stick the Robotech name on anything in the attempt to incorporate it into Robotech.

[VF5SS]

Here's something that I believe is unique to Robotech fans:

http://www.robotech....1280&forumid=11

Heck, do Star Trek fans wonder what they can incorporate into Star Trek? Do (original) Battlestar Galactica fans do the same...?

For fudge's sake, do even VOLTRON FANS wonder what other "Combining Robot" shows they can make into another Voltron...?

My sources say no.

They're like the lamest version of the Borg

like even lamer than the Borg from Star Trek Voyager

now that's lame

[ps99042]

Part of his post was a joke, so I'm assuming the entire thing was a joke. I can't think of how there would be enough of "It's You" to release a single. It's probably going to be In My Heart/Underground. Of course the real question is: why don't they go ahead and release the whole set?

Well, you get the short version, full version, instrumental version and George Sullivan version at the very least.

[azrael]

Heck, do Star Trek fans wonder what they can incorporate into Star Trek? Do (original) Battlestar Galactica fans do the same...?

To answer the retorical questions with silly answers...No, not when Star Trek has such a "rich" franchise to draw from already. And no. Why screw things up more than RDM's re-imaging.

For fudge's sake, do even VOLTRON FANS wonder what other "Combining Robot" shows they can make into another Voltron...?

Not when you have great shows like Voltron Force.

Is originality that hard to attain? That reminds me of a conversation we had about being able to stick the Robotech name on anything in the attempt to incorporate it into Robotech.

For Robowtech? You betcha. As I've said many times, the only way out is to re-image from head to toe. And seeing that nothing is happening on that front, you'll only see more threads like that one.

[Gubaba]

To answer the retorical questions with silly answers...No, not when Star Trek has such a "rich" franchise to draw from already. And no. Why screw things up more than RDM's re-imaging.

So, uh...which shows would YOU add to Galactica to make it a "multi-generational epic"...?

Not when you have great shows like Voltron Force.

Yeah, that's TOTALLY better than anything those Japanese people thought up...

...but still...

Why not incorporate Zambot 3 as Voltron IV, and then the J9 trilogy as Voltrons V~VII?

[Renato]

Here's something that I believe is unique to Robotech fans:

http://www.robotech....1280&forumid=11

Heck, do Star Trek fans wonder what they can incorporate into Star Trek? Do (original) Battlestar Galactica fans do the same...?

For fudge's sake, do even VOLTRON FANS wonder what other "Combining Robot" shows they can make into another Voltron...?

My sources say no.

I like this part:

What other shows would you have liked to have seen incorporated into Robotech? And better yet - HOW would they be able to fit? I want to see some imagination here people!

Yes, people! IMAGINATION!! Use your god-given creativity to rip apart somebody's intellectual property to fit awkwardly into someone else's!

[Einherjar]

Part of his post was a joke, so I'm assuming the entire thing was a joke. I can't think of how there would be enough of "It's You" to release a single.

Remember the days when Robotech Love Live Alive was just some cruel joke people here and other places made fun of before it became a real cruel joke?

Is originality that hard to attain? That reminds me of a conversation we had about being able to stick the Robotech name on anything in the attempt to incorporate it into Robotech.

LLA may actually make that a legitimate strategy (again!).

For Robowtech? You betcha. As I've said many times, the only way out is to re-image from head to toe. And seeing that nothing is happening on that front, you'll only see more threads like that one.

If only one of the guys who actually worked on The Macross Saga before it was given that name wasn't doing just that in a new comic book manga under its real title...

Edited February 13, 2012 by Einherjar

[blackconvoy_D01]

I've realized that Robotech was never truly a success ever.

In reality, anything else other than the original 85 eps was a legitimate wash.

Its legal stealing by way of licesning and manipulation. Carl Macek wasnt a genius, or even a really good writer, he was just a good dub man with an idea to move things around.

It obviously couldnt last forever (ie: a plageristic Bernie Madoff, stealling what other people own or make/ create for his own gain, as well as the ones he works for, etc.) because anything HG has tried with RT has been tainted (must be bad karma).

[Jasonc]

I have a friend that has some really rare Robotech songs that never made it to the screen. Unfortunately, those won't see the light of day until after their CD is out. Then it can be more of a "They still didn't get EVERYTHING."

As for the rt.com link, I kinda expect something like that. Many people that like only Robotech, have been potty trained to only piss out ideas that are based on something already there, or repeat HG's vision of ripping from some other established story. It's nothing really new. You can go back and look at some of the old rpg sites, and they incorporate all Macross designs, and some from Gundam and Megazone 23 as well. On the flip side, you can go here, and see people attempting to design totally new mecha, and expand the Macross universe in their own unique way. It's one thing, even when I was a member on rt.com back in the day, that really annoyed me. It seemed, even back then, that Robotech has a way of stinting creativity amongst its fans, just out of its own creation. By that action alone, the fans (especially the vocal nutjobs) help keep Robotech in their stagnant position, unable to break free from the first 3 shows it started from. The best thing they can do to save themselves, would be to bring in all new designs, and shed off what keeps them tied to rehashed story and design.

I say all that, but in reality, we're talking about one of the most unmotivated, uncreative Robotech staff. That'd never happen.

[waters7]

I've realized that Robotech was never truly a success ever.

In reality, anything else other than the original 85 eps was a legitimate wash.

Its legal stealing by way of licesning and manipulation. Carl Macek wasnt a genius, or even a really good writer, he was just a good dub man with an idea to move things around.

It obviously couldnt last forever (ie: a plageristic Bernie Madoff, stealling what other people own or make/ create for his own gain, as well as the ones he works for, etc.) because anything HG has tried with RT has been tainted (must be bad karma).

Well, Robotech was a success back in its day. But quite frankly, do you expect something that is based on some one else's work to stay relevant after its initial charm wears off? Robotech was not produced by artists like Kawamori, Tomino or Miyazaki. It was produced by some one who was somewhat familiar and knew of the potential of the original source material (Carl Macek) and backed up by a company that was itching to unload some of their imported material in TV syndication (HG).

Carl Macek didn't steal as he had a license to distribute SDF Macross as he saw fit.

The thing that I never really understood from him was why he thought that his work was actually better.

I can see how RLLA is close to the spirit of the 85 TV series (taking some one else's work, adapt it and release it with a different label) but outside of the loyal Robotech fans, I don't see how this new production will bring new, fresh consumers/viewers in to the franchise. If it sells gangbusters, maybe we will see a RLLA 2 with Flashback's animation

[Seto Kaiba]

I've realized that Robotech was never truly a success ever.

That's about the letter of it, yes...

Its legal stealing by way of licesning and manipulation. Carl Macek wasnt a genius, or even a really good writer, he was just a good dub man with an idea to move things around.

"Plagiarism" is the word you're looking for there, but really... moving things around wasn't Macek's idea. It was foisted on the project by necessity. To be precise, the necessity of appeasing Revell, who's beaten Harmony Gold to market with Macross toys and thus spoiled their plans to release a dub edition of Macross and support it with merchandise of their own.

I have a friend that has some really rare Robotech songs that never made it to the screen. Unfortunately, those won't see the light of day until after their CD is out. Then it can be more of a "They still didn't get EVERYTHING."

Well, obviously... they're holding out so they'll have the material handy to release another incrementally-more-complete product at the next milestone, and market it as something new and revolutionary. Betcha that the next soundtrack release, they conveniently rediscover the master tapes for all the tracks they had to have fans send them as mp3s this time around, and then throw in mp3s of another couple "missing" tracks that they haven't used yet.

Well, Robotech was a success back in its day. But quite frankly, do you expect something that is based on some one else's work to stay relevant after its initial charm wears off?

Harmony Gold and Robotech fans do... but, as I see it, that's the whole problem.

The thing that I never really understood from him was why he thought that his work was actually better.

Really, for a while now I've suspected that he never really thought that himself... it was just something Harmony Gold decided he should say because it'd serve their dual purposes of artificially inflating Robotech's perceived importance and diminish the fanbase's interest in the original shows.

[Aladdin Sane]

I can see how RLLA is close to the spirit of the 85 TV series (taking some one else's work, adapt it and release it with a different label) but outside of the loyal Robotech fans, I don't see how this new production will bring new, fresh consumers/viewers in to the franchise.

It won't, just like Shadow Chronicles didn't.

Wasn't their aim to actually bring in new people with Shadow Chronicles, though? How did they ever expect to do that with what was basically a retelling of the end of the series followed by a rehash of Sentinels ideas? You need a clean break/entry point if you want to bring in new people.

[Jasonc]

It won't, just like Shadow Chronicles didn't.

Wasn't their aim to actually bring in new people with Shadow Chronicles, though? How did they ever expect to do that with what was basically a retelling of the end of the series followed by a rehash of Sentinels ideas? You need a clean break/entry point if you want to bring in new people.

If their goal was to bring in a whole new set of fresh fans into the fray, then they failed miserably. In fact, the only thing they really did after the release, was lose fans. Once HG went into defensive mode about the film, and started banning people who didn't absolutely love Shadow Chronicles, they started losing fans. I almost have to say that Shadow Chronicles was the thing that instigated the decline of the fanbase. It also didn't help that the ugliness of the staff started showing, as well as the nutjobs in the fanbase really started getting defensive with the staff.

[Seto Kaiba]

If their goal was to bring in a whole new set of fresh fans into the fray, then they failed miserably.

It was... at least, according to the mooks currently running the show. The goal, as it were, was to make the Robotech series accessible and attractive to the younger "anime hobbyist" demographic. Harmony Gold's staff talked it up like they were serious about trying to make Shadow Chronicles more than just a film "by the fans, for the fans", but in the final analysis it looks like their only real effort to appeal to that younger audience was redesigning all of the female cast to have the same stripperific body. (It's an especially weird choice, because Tommy's early anime-esque concept designs would almost certainly have gone over better with that target audience.)

In fact, the only thing they really did after the release, was lose fans. Once HG went into defensive mode about the film, and started banning people who didn't absolutely love Shadow Chronicles, they started losing fans. I almost have to say that Shadow Chronicles was the thing that instigated the decline of the fanbase. It also didn't help that the ugliness of the staff started showing, as well as the nutjobs in the fanbase really started getting defensive with the staff.

Saying that the Shadow Chronicles instigated the decline of the fanbase is probably giving it too much credit. The Robotech fanbase was already in the early stages of its terminal decline before they even announced the project as "Robotech 2004". What Shadow Chronicles - and the reaction of Robotech's "veteran" fanbase to it - accomplished was dramatically accelerating what was already the inevitable outcome. The craziest of the crazy among the Robotech fans had already made their presence known before it came out, but they used it as a platform to promote their own particular brands of stupid... mostly by latching onto the anti-Shadow Chronicles uproar and becoming vocal supporters of the moderators doing the banning with the aim of ingratiating themselves and becoming "insiders".

(Heck, I don't think anyone who was on Robotech.com at the time will EVER forget the thread that started it all, the year before they announced the Shadow Chronicles project, "WHO CAN BE THE ROBOTECH MASTERS!")

[VF5SS]

can we just talk about Stratos 4 instead of Robotech

it's great

Gubaba knows what I'm talking about

[EXO]

I can lock this thread anytime if you guys want. I'm surprised people still want to talk about this.

[blackconvoy_D01]

Robotech/ HG loose a lot of (minimal) momentum, when we turn our backs to them.

[Zor Primus]

I can lock this thread anytime if you guys want. I'm surprised people still want to talk about this.

If its locked how can any of the rt.com lurkers find out anything new about Robotech before its announced on rt.com?

[Gubaba]

can we just talk about Stratos 4 instead of Robotech

it's great

Gubaba knows what I'm talking about

I do indeed. I think a couple of guys even did a podcast about Stratos 4. It was quite awesome, IIRC.

And that's all I'll say about that.

As for Exo's idea, I'm kinda for it. It's a little sad to see people here complaining about Robotech while still hoping desperately that something good will ever come out of it.

[azrael]

Robotech/ HG loose a lot of (minimal) momentum, when we turn our backs to them.

You mean we haven't already?

As for Exo's idea, I'm kinda for it. It's a little sad to see people here complaining about Robotech while still hoping desperately that something good will ever come out of it.

It's like watching a train wreck, we can't turn away. But like all rubber-necking, we're holding up traffic and it's probably time we move on. Unless some fundamental change happens, nothing is happening.